Why not? the first LOTR managed to do it
I really enjoyed TFA but this argument that it couldn't have been anything else is silly
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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Why not? the first LOTR managed to do it
I really enjoyed TFA but this argument that it couldn't have been anything else is silly
excelsiorlef
Member
I kind of had the "great disturbance in the force" look
That last scene in TFA of Luke... I don't know if I ever had a more convicted response to a movie scene. I thought it was one of the most trite and predictable ways to tease a new character (standing on a cliff looking cool... who couldn't have wrote that?), and one of the least Star Wars endings ever, and I couldn't believe it was ending like that.... and yet, the very presence of Luke welled up emotion in me.
Can't wait to watch it again, sans my fanboy baggage.
I dunno the silent staredown was fucking beautiful and thus music not being fully light /having a hit of darkness to it was interesting. It was a powerful scene to me.
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
I think the acting in this is better than any of the other six films. Just wait, Rian is going to get a lot out of the actors in 8.
excelsiorlef
Member
I'm so excited I honestly think that's why TFA is my favorite because the acting is on a completely different level.
Definitely.
Except for the half assed attempts of Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher, who sucked. Hard.
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
Bad shit is going to go down in 8 and it's probably going to be the most emotional of all 8 films which has to be the reason they chose Rian (he's an actor's director). He's going to hammer home the drama and weirdness. My gut tells me Luke did something terrible and my weird theory is that Kylo dropped off Rey, not Luke (which is why what Maz said is true: her family isn't coming back but go to Luke). We'll see.
I feel like the biggest problem for Ep7 is that it is harping too much from the OT especially with it basically copying a lot of plot points from 4 and 5, It needs its own identity.
I really liked this movie but I felt it took no risks(even Hans death seemed expected), I would rather it branch out of the comfort zone and try new things like for example having the First Order actually win which would make Rey's training even more important and having the stakes even higher. I'm looking forward to the direction Ep 8 will go now.
I really liked this movie but I felt it took no risks(even Hans death seemed expected), I would rather it branch out of the comfort zone and try new things like for example having the First Order actually win which would make Rey's training even more important and having the stakes even higher. I'm looking forward to the direction Ep 8 will go now.
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
From an editorial perspective with everything from the camera work to the sound editing, this one really does stick out to me. It copied some elements to satisfy fans but it changed the rules for a modern SW. From the opening to literally the last shot.
I have to say that I just got done re-watching ANH for like the billionth time and again just can't help but smile at its expert pacing and editing. I haven't posted a lot in this new thread since I believed I've said everything that needed to be said in the last thread but geez does JJ's style irk me after watching ANH again. Like, can we just get one damn second to breathe without any action sequence, forced joke, or in your face call back to the OT shoved into our face? I think one of the major problems I have with TFA is the main premise, basically the whole "Luke is missing" plot that goes nowhere and is never really explained to the audience.
Now, this has been covered many times before by other posters but the premise just doesn't fit the movie since we are never told why Luke is needed right NOW or why finding him would suddenly change everything. This especially doesn't make internal sense to many viewers as it would imply that Luke is oblivious to the state of the galaxy and is actively doing nothing until he is found by the RESISTANCE. Thus, when the Starkiller base suddenly becomes the crux of the story past the mid point it seems like a ball coming out of left field, it's never built up.
This is actually further perplexing when you remember that Finn apparently worked on the base or at the very least knew of its existence. After the Starkiller Base attack Finn suddenly announces to everyone that what they are seeing is The First Order making their attack against the Republic with their new weapon. Um, don't you think you could have mentioned that to someone sooner? Regardless, the whole Starkiller assault just happens so quickly without any of the emotional or narrative build up like we got in ANH.
Of course, once we get to the actual attack JJ's editing and direction makes it clear that the actual X-Wing assault on the base is a secondary concern to the action happening inside the base. The entire assault is just sloppily edited together, we never get a clear picture of the geography of the battlefield or who the key players in the assault are besides Poe. The entire assault reminds me a lot like the Death Star run in ROTJ except even worse. Pilots come and go often without any introduction, we get awkward side shots of the pilots instead of forward facing shots like the original, and their actual objectives along with their strategy is never properly explained visually.
When you look at the attack all we know is that they have to destroy some thermal oscillator which is under some thick armor, but we aren't given a visual setup of how this battle will play out. In ANH the entire Death Star run is ingeniously edited so that you are piece by piece learning the geography of the battlefield, the ultimate objective, the obstacles in the way of the objective, and all the key players involved. Here, we just get a mess of star ships shooting at each other until Han and Co. blow the base so that Poe can slip in and shoot stuff we didn't know he had to shoot. I remember in particular the cut from them initially fighting in orbit of the snow capped planet to suddenly them fighting in space felt so jarring to me, like how did we get here?
All in all I still like TFA as a decent flick which has rejuvenated SW but I truly hope that Disney does not insist upon this JJ/modern style of cinematic pacing and editing. Please, just let shit breathe and don't be afraid to just let characters talk for a while.
Now, this has been covered many times before by other posters but the premise just doesn't fit the movie since we are never told why Luke is needed right NOW or why finding him would suddenly change everything. This especially doesn't make internal sense to many viewers as it would imply that Luke is oblivious to the state of the galaxy and is actively doing nothing until he is found by the RESISTANCE. Thus, when the Starkiller base suddenly becomes the crux of the story past the mid point it seems like a ball coming out of left field, it's never built up.
This is actually further perplexing when you remember that Finn apparently worked on the base or at the very least knew of its existence. After the Starkiller Base attack Finn suddenly announces to everyone that what they are seeing is The First Order making their attack against the Republic with their new weapon. Um, don't you think you could have mentioned that to someone sooner? Regardless, the whole Starkiller assault just happens so quickly without any of the emotional or narrative build up like we got in ANH.
Of course, once we get to the actual attack JJ's editing and direction makes it clear that the actual X-Wing assault on the base is a secondary concern to the action happening inside the base. The entire assault is just sloppily edited together, we never get a clear picture of the geography of the battlefield or who the key players in the assault are besides Poe. The entire assault reminds me a lot like the Death Star run in ROTJ except even worse. Pilots come and go often without any introduction, we get awkward side shots of the pilots instead of forward facing shots like the original, and their actual objectives along with their strategy is never properly explained visually.
When you look at the attack all we know is that they have to destroy some thermal oscillator which is under some thick armor, but we aren't given a visual setup of how this battle will play out. In ANH the entire Death Star run is ingeniously edited so that you are piece by piece learning the geography of the battlefield, the ultimate objective, the obstacles in the way of the objective, and all the key players involved. Here, we just get a mess of star ships shooting at each other until Han and Co. blow the base so that Poe can slip in and shoot stuff we didn't know he had to shoot. I remember in particular the cut from them initially fighting in orbit of the snow capped planet to suddenly them fighting in space felt so jarring to me, like how did we get here?
All in all I still like TFA as a decent flick which has rejuvenated SW but I truly hope that Disney does not insist upon this JJ/modern style of cinematic pacing and editing. Please, just let shit breathe and don't be afraid to just let characters talk for a while.
Unknown Soldier
Member
The recently released Spectre is notable for having that opening long shot that goes on for 4 minutes right at the start of the film.
The film goes downhill from there unfortunately.
Megalosaro
Banned
The First Order did win. They one shotted the central government, which will probably plunge the galaxy into chaos. It's just that their super weapon was destroyed. It looks like quite a few first order soldier manage to survive though.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I can see how it could be powerful, and it partially worked for me. It's just not classical Star Wars in a filmmaking sense on multiple levels:
-an unconventional helicopter shot
-It doesn't have our heroes together, looking out (metaphorically) at their horizon. Should be Rey and Finn together!
-the scene wasn't directly rooted in the aftermath of the climatic conflict of the film
-It being essentially a "teaser", revealing new information in the final seconds of the film that makes you want to watch the sequel, something no SW does. Right out of the playbook of rote 2010s cinematic universe crap.
...and as I said I had a problem with that loss of classic SW cinematic language, and I'm trying to let go of it, because it is officially gone....
If I worked on this film, I would have advocated that Luke dramatically show up in the climax of this film in a heroic moment... but it is what it is...
excelsiorlef
Member
So disagree. Solo was Solo and Fisher played the role of someone who never escaped the war quite well.
CreepingFear
Member
You are literally the only person in the world that thinks that Harrison Ford did not have his best acting job in two decades. Get the fuck out of here.
What he said. Harrison Ford helped carry the whole movie.
Make me.
Every other character had wonderful acting. Ford and Fisher clearly didn't give two shits.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
What the fuck are you actually basing this on?
It can't be the performances. Did you read something somewhere? Did someone feed you a line of bullshit that sounded convincing and you just rolled with it?
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Luke is important because:
A) He likely trained Kylo Ren
B) He seems to be the last Jedi master alive
Kylo wants to find him to destroy any chance of more Jedi getting trained.
excelsiorlef
Member
And this is where I tell you oh do politely that I'm glad you didn't work on the film
<3
Based on the movie, of course. Deal with it. Ford paled in comparison to Finn and Rey in every aspect. It's clear Mr. Ford just wanted his character dead.
I agree with this. But he shines sometimes. This is not such time.
Good Job Bob
Member
This was probably Ford's second best performance in SW after ESB.
This thread is going off the rails again. You 2 are of course welcome to your opinion and I am welcome to think these opinions are crazy lol.
Sorcerer
Member
I came away liking it at first, but it didn't stick with me. I had no desire to see it a second time. It started ringing hollow to me.
The movie is not meant for me, its for a newer generation and that's okay.
Twice I have heard from females, that they love this movie but they hated the older Star Wars movies.
I think its kind of odd considering the movie is basically ANH. But if Rey is having that much of an impact on female viewers that they feel like they have a movie of their own, than that could only be a good thing.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Heaven forbid the characters are woven organically into the storyline, instead of a new action figure appearing at the end. "The macguffin you ordered just arrived and he can't wait for you to play with him, holiday 2017!"
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
Because of the amount of time spent on the attack on the base with the X-Wings, it's supposed to convey that it really isn't important to the story. He wants to get it over with quickly because it's just a small element to the story that had to be there to feel like Star Wars.
No matter what they say publicly, they did everything in their power to distance themselves from the prequels because they know how it almost killed the franchise for many. From specific shots to dialogue to homages, they did everything in their power to make this the opposite of the prequels in every way. The homage to the trench run lasts about 10 seconds. Why? Because it has no weight so he just wants to get it over with. It's almost like he's doing us a favor: he's not going to dwell on the obvious outcome. He's going to make it serviceable in a fun way for a moment then move on to the new. Many scenes are like this. Kasdan from a story/dialogue perspective and J.J. from a shooting/editing perspective made this very much an anti-prequel film with homages thrown in. J.J. brought it into the modern world of filmmaking for better or worse.
You will get your breathing room in 8. 7 served it's purpose extremely well.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
You're a bumper sticker right now with that shit. C'mon.
Not from the performance. It's why I asked if you'd heard something somewhere, or been reading shit from questionable sources, or were just working from a somewhat common assumption.
Because there's no way I can see anyone looking at that performance, especially if familiar with the quality of his work over the past 10+ years, and saying it's just more of the same.
Well I'm sorry, but Ford's performance, aside from just a couple of scenes (Like the one where he gets killed) didn't seem good to me. The dialogue was poorly delivered, the reactions were poor for the most part. Compared to Boyega, for example, Ford was just plain boring most of the time.
That's General Organa to you.
Yeah but they needed to show him more to build why he's needed.
Having him in the flashback wipe out all the Knights except for Kylo who he tries to reason with would've been much better for the film.
She'll always be royalty to me.
excelsiorlef
Member
You're the one who literally just advocated for Luke to come out of nowhere and be the hero in the climax of a film centered around finding him.
That's not organic.
And what a fucking cynical pov. The Luke scene was not to sell fucking toys.
Star Wars is mostly about selling toys, though.
LegalEagleMike
Member
OricWindstar
Member
This is pretty good! I feel like we're not going to get an official release, as they seemed to have pulled the track from the original ANH recording, but I'm still crossing my fingers.Went ahead and took a crack at editing a (close as I can get) film version of The Ways of the Force.
There's about a minute long piece of music I couldn't find anywhere on either the official or the For Your Consideration versions of the soundtrack, so this won't be film perfect, but aside from that one minute, it's pretty much how it goes. Hopefully an official release will come soon that renders this completely useless.
There's still like 30 minutes of promised music to come, right?
I fucking love his delivery of this line.
excelsiorlef
Member
I mean sure. But the movie had the exact opposite feel of a focus group merch movie.
This is likely a matter of taste. I much prefer them leaving Luke's purpose/story a mystery until the next film.
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
This is partly true but your sentiment that Luke was in the last scene to sell toys makes no sense. It was the payoff. If that scene wasn't in the film and didn't happen the way it did, the film would've been terrible. Luke couldn't show up and save the day earlier because that would've been really stupid and made a terrible screenplay.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Abrams did say something about an extra 30 min getting released somehow. We just don't know what that is yet.
It might be too much to hope for an isolated score on the blu-ray.
and thanks man!.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Thanks <3
OricWindstar
Member
That would be so dope.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I've heard it doesn't happen much anymore because, due to the way royalties are paid for original score recordings, Isolated Scores are some of the most expensive extras a blu-ray can have.
Editing that track was pretty fun, though. But I spent most of my time just scanning through both versions of the soundtrack for that single minute of music that's supposed to bridge Ways of the Force to the Scherzo for X-Wings, but it's just not there
Doctoglethorpe
Member
I think the reason Ford put in such a great performance was simply that they gave him a great role. You take away Hans death though and that role is greatly diminished. The whole movie is in fact. So in that way Hans death made Ford care more.
Speculation and yadaydada.
Speculation and yadaydada.
Your misunderstanding, of course Luke is important he is LUKE FUCKING SKYWALKER. What I'm getting at is that it's never explained why he s important right NOW. Everyone wants to find him NOW, especially the RESISTANCE, as if finding him will somehow change the tide of the conflict which also subtly implies he's not paying attention to the state of the galaxy. In ANH the central premise is clear from the get go, get the Death Star plans to the REBEL ALLIANCE. Why? Because the Death Star is the newest ultimate weapon that can change the entire tide of the war and destroy the rebels once and for all. Everything in ANH revolves around this premise finally building up to the actual attack on the Death Star.
In TFA we are told that the RESISTANCE has found a map leading to Luke who they've been searching for, why is he important right now? We don't know. These plans are eventually given to the RESISTANCE who tell everyone that it's just half a map so whatever, I guess we shouldn't have even tried. And then all of a sudden we are attacking the Death Star 3.0. The central premise/plot does not flow organically as it does with ANH. The search for Luke is totally unconnected to the discovery and swift destruction of Starkiller Base.
Lol, are you ready for a whole new generation of fans quoting TFA lines?
I have a bad feeling about this.
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
J.J. said in the Vanity Fair interview (I believe that's the one) that he told Ford in the nicest way possible he doesn't want the grumpy old guy attitude. They did him the favor of killing off the character so bring the energy. I think Ford, over time, realized this was the film that made his career and livelihood so he went all out for it. He finally appreciated it (who knows how much but it doesn't matter).
LegalEagleMike
Member
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