Dubbedinenglish
Banned
The Falcon limps to Bespin at sub light speeds.
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up
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The Falcon limps to Bespin at sub light speeds.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
He was training with Yoda while the Millennium Falcon made its way to Bespin without a hyperdrive. How long do you think that would take?
I agree that the timeline feels weird and off, but without a hyperdrive, it had to take Han and company awhile to get to Cloud City.
I liked Ren too, I found him the most interesting character in the movie. I think he´ll be missing from most of episode 8: Rei will abandon her training with Luke too soon to go face some kind of menace but then Kylo Ren will appear at the last action scene now with his training completed and sweep the floor with her. Rei will barely escape (and if Disney allows it, with one limb less
) and go back to completing her training with Luke. Luke will sit out of the main action saying that it´s now Rei´s turn to set things right or something. So, basically I think they´re setting everything to be a retelling of episode 5 where Luke = Yoda, Rei = Luke and Ren = Vader. Ren will most likely do something atrocious in episode 5 to strengthen the impression that he´s gone 100% dark side and is beyond saving, like killing Luke or Leia.Just theories, but everything revolves around Ren, which shows how an interesting character JJ has created.
The Librarian
Banned
I hug and kiss my friends as well doesn't mean I have any romantic interest in them. And as for seeing him again, she calls him friend. I mean, maybe if she had left out the friend part...
Hell, even Daisy has expressed frustration that a man and a woman (in this case, her friendship with Boyega) being friends has to mean something more than that.
The Librarian
Banned
Um, what? Sublight? They would've died before they got anywhere important!
I really want to see how the galaxy is getting on how it's being governed, is the standard of living high overall, safety concerns and so on. Not a huge amount just a little.
There's a saber duel in a later season of the Clone Wars featuring Anakin and Obi Wan vs Count Dooku iirc, and it does an excellent job of showing off the various form styles of the Jedi. From the top of my head I remember Makashi, Shien/Djem So, a bit of Ataru and also some Soresu being used, it was a wonderful spectacle to behold.
If anyone knows the fight I'm talking about and can find a link to it on Youtube somewhere then I would be grateful.
Oh man, The Ones, such a powerful trio of Force users. Yoda and Palpatine were younglings, power wise, in comparison to them, and that's me maybe being generous.
I might just go and watch the Clone Wars again, talking about it has gotten me in the mood for another re watch.
Way late to the party, and obviously everything has already been discussed to depth, but I feel like voicing my take on the film.
Where I'm coming from on the issue: I grew up with Star Wars. We couldn't afford a video player at the time so I would hear audio tapes while looking at pictures from books, we would make light sabers out of branches with red or green duct tape, etc, etc.
Love the franchise to death, hate the prequels.
So, I fucking hate Abraams. I hate him because this was nothing like the prequels, it could have been great.
I loved the characters, loved most of the dialogue, and love the general feel of the movie.
The pacing felt rushed, it gave me no chance to kind of 'rest' and absorb what's going on, like they had to go through a list of fan service scenes, "look this is star wars and not the prequels" scenes (cantina scene, death star scene, tatooine scene, etc), plot development scenes, characters introducing scenes, but I could forgive that because most of it was actually fun.
But the plot holes, the damn plot holes. It was Lost and Star Trek all over again. Fuck logic and continuity, that looks cool, do it.
Here is a super death star, a ridiculous plot device that shoots hyperspace traveling beams that are visible from different star systems, which would demand ridiculous construction times and materials, but the Republic knew nothing about.
Hey, let's go attack it with about five minutes of planning because we got a stormtrooper's - janitor's info. Great, we're here, we can disable the shields in a relatively unguarded room away from the command center. And it can only be done -there-, fuck the command center.
Good, now about 15 x-wings attack the entire First Order's force, because a Galaxy-spanning Republic's fleet was ALL around a single system, and that's all we have left. And we fucking win.
And then let's have a dark side Jedi who has been training from young age at an academy, and then by a Sith lord, who has been shown to have intimidating skills with the force, actually trade blows with an ex- janitor, who uses a light saber, and even gets a hit in, instead of tossing him like a rag doll like he's been doing all this time.
That's just off the top of my head, the "why did they just..." was constant. Why was Rey so poorly guarded being so important? Why did they send only two tie fights to find the droid when it was so important?
I could ignore a few plot holes because it's Star Wars, it's inherently illogical (obviously), it's largely a children's movie, and so on. But the Abraams shit was constant and getting huger and huger.
Having loved the characters and the tone, I have hopes for the second film I guess.
Phew, there.
Where I'm coming from on the issue: I grew up with Star Wars. We couldn't afford a video player at the time so I would hear audio tapes while looking at pictures from books, we would make light sabers out of branches with red or green duct tape, etc, etc.
Love the franchise to death, hate the prequels.
So, I fucking hate Abraams. I hate him because this was nothing like the prequels, it could have been great.
I loved the characters, loved most of the dialogue, and love the general feel of the movie.
The pacing felt rushed, it gave me no chance to kind of 'rest' and absorb what's going on, like they had to go through a list of fan service scenes, "look this is star wars and not the prequels" scenes (cantina scene, death star scene, tatooine scene, etc), plot development scenes, characters introducing scenes, but I could forgive that because most of it was actually fun.
But the plot holes, the damn plot holes. It was Lost and Star Trek all over again. Fuck logic and continuity, that looks cool, do it.
Here is a super death star, a ridiculous plot device that shoots hyperspace traveling beams that are visible from different star systems, which would demand ridiculous construction times and materials, but the Republic knew nothing about.
Hey, let's go attack it with about five minutes of planning because we got a stormtrooper's - janitor's info. Great, we're here, we can disable the shields in a relatively unguarded room away from the command center. And it can only be done -there-, fuck the command center.
Good, now about 15 x-wings attack the entire First Order's force, because a Galaxy-spanning Republic's fleet was ALL around a single system, and that's all we have left. And we fucking win.
And then let's have a dark side Jedi who has been training from young age at an academy, and then by a Sith lord, who has been shown to have intimidating skills with the force, actually trade blows with an ex- janitor, who uses a light saber, and even gets a hit in, instead of tossing him like a rag doll like he's been doing all this time.
That's just off the top of my head, the "why did they just..." was constant. Why was Rey so poorly guarded being so important? Why did they send only two tie fights to find the droid when it was so important?
I could ignore a few plot holes because it's Star Wars, it's inherently illogical (obviously), it's largely a children's movie, and so on. But the Abraams shit was constant and getting huger and huger.
Having loved the characters and the tone, I have hopes for the second film I guess.
Phew, there.
Kylo was fucking with him. He's hugely pissed at this (*screaming*) TRAITOR that has fucked up his plans over the course of the entire film. From one of Plop's amazing posts in the otherwise abysmal Mary Sue thread:
He's too sure of himself, just as he was with Finn:
He even knocked Finn down and just walked away instead of finishing him off.
Finn gets up and:
Ren continues to fuck with him, spinning his saber like a cocky bastard, then torturing Finn with the short tip.
Finn desperately pushes him away and swings, hitting Ren with a lucky strike, and Ren stops fucking around:
Look at that--when Ren gets real, Finn is instantly disarmed and left comatose (and possibly paralyzed, because damn, look at what he did to Finn's back).
When Ren stopped screwing around he drops Finn in a moment flat.
That's cool, would like see how those things looked on the set.
UnemployedVillain
Member
This is what I don't get. If Kylo is a newbie, then how was he able to slaughter the rest of Luke's trainees? Unless it wasn't him and we're being misdirected, he had a TON of help doing so (if Luke couldn't stop him) or the fight should have been more one sided and he should have owned them.
Kitschkraft
Member
I liked Ren too, I found him the most interesting character in the movie. I think he´ll be missing from most of episode 8: Rei will abandon her training with Luke too soon to go face some kind of menace but then Kylo Ren will appear at the last action scene now with his training completed and sweep the floor with her. Rei will barely escape (and if Disney allows it, with one limb less
Just theories, but everything revolves around Ren, which shows how an interesting character JJ has created.
I was completely okay with TFA essentially being a "greatest hits" of the original trilogy....but I'm really REALLY hoping that RJ is planning on going somewhere completely different with Ep.8 (And, that episode 9 is also different).
TFA was about re-introducing the old universe while also serving to introduce these new characters. It made sense that the movie was like that.
But what point is there for 8 to be similar to 5?
I'm not one to critique TFA for being a retread. I've given it a pass. But I'm expecting something surprising in these next movies.
My point was that Finn wasn't particularly smitten with Rey as I've heard some surmise online. "Take care of yourself, bye" - What more do people want?
And I'm not gonna get into the "friendzone" stuff.
SliceSabre
Banned
I didn't even realize till I listened to 8-4 Play how many things in the movie are similar to the original movie.
My brain never even connected Starkiller Base = Deathstar.
My brain never even connected Starkiller Base = Deathstar.
In Rey's vision, Ren isn't seen killing people alone. The Knights of Ren are behind him; they probably played a large role in it.
WadiumArcadium
Member
He was with the other Knights of Ren if the vision is any indication. I'm guessing they're a pretty powerful force when they attack as a group. According to Pablo Hidalgo, Luke's 'academy' was in its infancy and his trainees weren't exactly all that powerful at that stage.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
Well, without a hyperdrive, how else did they get there? Agreed that it doesn't make sense, but they also weren't able to just jump across the galaxy to get to Bespin. It had to take them some time, during which Luke was training.
Not to mention we don't even know what their skill level is yet. It's possible Kylo Ren is the youngest, least trained of the group.
Perhaps, but being able to force hold a blaster bolt mid-air is hardly untrained I think.
Personally I think his injury is the biggest reason he wasn't able to match both Finn (initially at least) and Rey. Let's be honest, he mopped the floor with Finn.
WadiumArcadium
Member
He's their leader so he's probably the most powerful.
As far as we know he's also the only force sensitive member. None of the others are using lightsabers.
Kitschkraft
Member
WadiumArcadium
Member
Haha, they existed before Ben joined.
Was that said in the movie? I can't remember
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
There's a saber duel in a later season of the Clone Wars featuring Anakin and Obi Wan vs Count Dooku iirc, and it does an excellent job of showing off the various form styles of the Jedi. From the top of my head I remember Makashi, Shien/Djem So, a bit of Ataru and also some Soresu being used, it was a wonderful spectacle to behold.
If anyone knows the fight I'm talking about and can find a link to it on Youtube somewhere then I would be grateful.
Oh man, The Ones, such a powerful trio of Force users. Yoda and Palpatine were younglings, power wise, in comparison to them, and that's me maybe being generous.
I might just go and watch the Clone Wars again, talking about it has gotten me in the mood for another re watch.
I tried explaining this to them but it fell on deaf ears. There are a lot of fans that basically only watch the movies and that's it. So they stick their fingers in their ears if they need to hear about the expanded lore. Not even novelizations get through to them. Even though this film's novelization has more details than the film again.
Saw it both IMAX 3D and regular 3D.
3D is nothing special in either version, but the overall experience in IMAX was substantially better simply for audio. Every time a lightsaber was activated it would sound like an explosion of power. It was very cool.
Bedameister
Member
3D is not good. Not necessary. Would have rather watched it in 2D
Kitschkraft
Member
Aside from that...how young can one be and start an organization like that?
I mean, I get it that she's strong in the force, but damn. She's 19 in this movie. Was 5 or 6 in that flashback.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Yeah its really apparent on a rewatch that the whole time during the fight Ren is just toying with Finn until Finn gets that lucky shot and becomes a danger. When he is fighting Rey again Kylo is just fighting to get her to yield and when Rey taps into the force she doesn't beat him based on skill(Her skill or fighting style doesn't change at all) she just overpowers him.
WadiumArcadium
Member
I can't recall if it is mentioned in the film, but JJ confirmed in an interview with Empire a while ago that Ben joined the Knights of Ren, instead of forming them.
Well, it could have been just an idea that started with some of Luke's students that wanted a cool name as Jedi knights.
The Librarian
Banned
"Knights of Ren"
Do we know who Ren is?
Do we know who Ren is?
So did Ben assume the name Ren after joining them?
It's tough, because I don't know much of the out-of-movie lore. Is he their leader? I don't think it was established in the film.
Also, being the 'leader' doesn't necessarily mean 'most powerful', but I get where you're coming from with that.
Uh...Kylo Ren?
WadiumArcadium
Member
Yeah, it's a title like Darth for Sith.
Yeah, we don't know for sure he's the most powerful, it's just an educated guess really.
As for whether he's their leader, Snoke says the line "Even you, Master of the Knights of Ren, have never faced such a test" in the film.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Bedameister
Member
He named himself after the Knights of Ren so he is not "the" Ren
I think Ren is a title or honorary of sorts because he joined the Knights. Otherwise it would be Kylo Solo.
Nah, it's probably Voldemort.
Kitschkraft
Member
What state do we think Fin will be in the next film? Will they emphasize his injury? Will he be magically cured of his sliced through spine without a second given to it, or will we get a shirtless scene with a massive scare and suggestions he's part mechanical now?
I'm guessing he won't be noticeably damaged. Like, he won't have robot legs and shit. He could have some sort of chrome back or something I guess, but I imagine that it would be covered up and not talked about less it's important for the plot.
FWIW, in the book, he's slashed in his front. Obviously the movie controls, but if they wanted to emphasize some super-debilitating spine injury, I imagine that's a detail that would have been consistent.
I really hope they don't go with the cliched mechanical black guy shit. Not trying to see Cyborg in this fucking movie.
I'm more interested in seeing how they deal with him waking up. Is it something that happens off-screen? On screen? Could we see a KOTOR type of intro with him waking up during an attack on the resistance base? There has to be some reason for them ending the movie like that, it's a very awkward ending to his arc, I'm hoping there is a payoff of some sort (That doesn't involve turning him into MK-Jax)
Finn's gonna get tank'd and he'll be healthy again. I don't think they'll robot him up.
Ah yes. I forgot about that. Unless he meant it sarcastically (and really, he doesn't seem the type haha), he's definitely the leader.
Ah yes. I forgot about that. Unless he meant it sarcastically (and really, he doesn't seem the type haha), he's definitely the leader.
Imperfected
Member
I'm not sure why anyone buys C3PO toys anyway when you can just get your arms put in plaster casts and throw on a cheap Halloween mask and you're basically there.
To be honest, the whole idea of Force users having these huge, discrete tiers in power has always felt like an EU invention to me. The original never had that Dragon Ball Z feeling of, "X could never defeat Y, he's nowhere near powerful enough!" Even when Yoda cautions Luke against facing Vader, it's because he's worried he isn't emotionally ready to face him, not because he thinks Vader's Force Level is too high for Luke to be able to win.
The old movies, and TFA, feel more grounded about it: there's no such thing as being so blazingly all-powerful with the Force that you can't be beaten. A person swinging a lightsaber at you is always a threat, even if they're clumsy and untrained, and if you're an asshole like Kylo Ren who thinks otherwise because you've been locked up in a room with a Vader mask sniffing your own farts, you're going to get burned. (Literally.)
Vastly prefer it that way. A major reason the prequels were so limp is because the Jedi were presented as being under no credible threat from anything but the Sith, meaning that vast swathes of the movies had these huge combat-focused set pieces where there was absolutely no drama because there was never any sense the characters were in danger.
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