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[The Chef]

Each time I watch this movie the better it gets.

Absolutely. Watching this a second time made it so much more enjoyable for me, which is saying a lot considering how much I love this movie.

There is so much I appreciated on this viewing. One of the biggest moments that I didn't notice before was the lighting on Kylo Rens face when he is confronting Solo.

At the start of the dialogue when Ren removes his mask, there is nothing but red light spilling on his face. Progressively, as Solo is speaking to his son, a light blue light from outside begins to shine on the right side of Rens face.
At the moment Ren says "I am being torn apart" - his face is cut in half. The left half covered in a red glow and the right side is illuminated with white light.

Immediately after Ren kills solo there is nothing but red light covering his face. He's now completely part of the dark side.

Amazing.

Also: Went to a 5:00 showing on Sunday evening. Was thinking it wouldn't be a big deal to show up around 4:45. Theater was sold out for the next 2 showings. Insane.

 

[Johndoey]

What do you people want from the next movie? In terms of material to cover and such?

 

[RumblingRosco]

I think Kylo Ren is the character I am most interested in seeing development.

He is whiny as shit. You may recall Luke acting similarly in A New Hope. This is basically what we would see if Luke had joined the Dark Side at the end of A New Hope; a whiny, bratty, untrained force-user. We're practically seeing an alternative realty play out here.

Ren is lame for losing a lightsaber duel to the literally completely untrained Rey. Should we be surprised? As far as we saw, Ren only used his lightsaber on inanimate objects (computers/monitors) or helpless old men (old captive guy at the beginning of TFA). At best, he may have trained with some shitty Stormtrooper.

Ren is obsessed with Vader. That shouldn't be surprising. Ren is likely under the influence of whoever that Emporer-like hologram is supposed to be. So, Ren is being manipulated by the Dark side but also has family history with it (Vader as his grandfather). Seems to me that those two aspects make it easy to understand how he became radicalized.

I don't have a clear point of this post, but basically, I think Ren is really interesting and his whininess is no worse than Luke's in ANH, it just seems worse because we're expecting to have some crazy evil and easily-hateable villain on-screen. I expect considerable changes in Ren for Episode 8.

 

[Johndoey]

Luke wasn't nearly as whiny as Ren is, I don't know how anyone could think he was.

Also we know Ren had to have received decent training in the force he was a talented interrogator with the mental probe, and managed to freeze a high power bolt in mid air something I don't think has been done in the films.

 

[heringer]

Each time I watch this movie the better it gets.

One thing I noticed too with Finn and Rey's fight with Kylo that made an impact with me is that even Finn a guy not trained with a saber or force sensitive at all is able to injure Kylo pretty significantly when he stabs him in the shoulder. Then when Rey fights him the whole fight is her warding his blows off and just trying to defend against his attacks. When she channels the force she doesn't all of a sudden understand how to wield the saber in fact she uses the exact same fighting style - Jab Jab Jab followed by sweeping high arcs that was so useless before. The only difference is tapping into the force gives her more strength than Kylo and he is just too exhausted to defend.

Absolutely. I firmly believe that Luke beating Vader was more absurd. I thought Rey beating Kylo was very reasonable considering he was badly wounded not only by Chewie's shot but also by Finn's lucky strike.

So the biggest problem is, could Finn really score a hit on Kylo Ren? Again, I don't think it's unreasonable considering even experts can mess up sometimes, let alone one that was badly injured. His mind wasn't in the right place, he was in heavy pain and he underestimated Finn. It's completely reasonable to see Finn scoring a hit.

 

[Bedameister]

What do you people want from the next movie? In terms of material to cover and such?

New ideas

 

[RumblingRosco]

Luke wasn't nearly as whiny as Ren is, I don't know how anyone could think he was.

I'm on my phone right now so it is a bit cumbersome to link to videos, but I mean, I'd argue that Luke is more whiny. Practically his first scene he is whining about wanting to go to Toshi station. It is clearly intentional that the audience should feel Luke is whiny in ANH.

 

[The Librarian]

I don't understand the "whiny" complaints about Ren. I can't recall an instance when he whines.

Luke on the other hand....

 

[Pagusas]

Absolutely. I firmly believe that Luke beating Vader was more absurd. I thought Rey beating Kylo was very reasonable considering he was badly wounded not only by Chewie's shot but also by Finn's lucky strike.

So the biggest problem is, could Finn really score a hit on Kylo Ren? Again, I don't think it's unreasonable considering even experts can mess up sometimes, let alone one that was badly injured. His mind wasn't in the right place, he was in heavy pain and he underestimated Finn. It's completely reasonable to see Finn scoring a hit.

Plus, Kylo is arrogant and completely underestimated Finn to a severe degree. Yes Finn would never be able to beat him, but Kylo underestimate him so much he didnt properly defend against some unexpected shots from Finn (who at the very least learned something from his spar with the storm trooper).

The Rey vs Kylo fight was more interesting as it was her first time even swinging the sword. Just like with the Jedi mind trick and such, I found it to push my suspension of disbelief that she is just able to do this stuff so fast. I never felt anywhere else in Star Wars has it been shown that someone can suddenly switch on the force and command it without training to the degree she was. Same with her Force pull of the lightsaber. How did she know a Jedi even could do a mind trick and a force pull? Is it from old stories and she;s just guessing? Is it repressed memories? Regardless I'm hoping future films flesh that bit out, as standing along its a bit hard to swallow.

 

[The Librarian]

Plus, Kylo is arrogant and completely underestimated Finn to a severe degree. Yes Finn would never be able to beat him, but Kylo underestimate him so much he didnt properly defend against some unexpected shots from Finn (who at the very least learned something from his spar with the storm trooper).

The Rey vs Kylo fight was more interesting as it was her first time even swinging the sword. Just like with the Jedi mind trick and such, I found it to push my suspension of disbelief that she is just able to do this stuff so fast. I never felt anywhere else in Star Wars has it been shown that someone can suddenly switch on the force and command it without training to the degree she was. Same with her Force pull of the lightsaber. How did she know a Jedi even could do a mind trick and a force pull? Is it from old stories and she;s just guessing? Is it repressed memories? Regardless I'm hoping future films flesh that bit out, as standing along its a bit hard to swallow.

She sees Ren doing all sorts of stuff with the Force, including holding things still and pushing stuff away.

 

[Johndoey]

I'm on my phone right now so it is a bit cumbersome to link to videos, but I mean, I'd argue that Luke is more whiny. Practically his first scene he is whining about wanting to go to Toshi station. It is clearly intentional that the audience should feel Luke is whiny in ANH.

I see what your saying but those temper tantrums with Ren are a bad look for a military commander.

 

[Palpable]

Is the audio from the trailer where Kylo says "nothing will stand in our way. I will finish what you started" in the OST anywhere?

 

[RumblingRosco]

I don't understand the "whiny" complaints about Ren. I can't recall an instance when he whines.

Luke on the other hand....

Ren's whining to me is in his non-verbal reactions, it isn't literally whining. He is immature so he destroys a computer console when he loses a prisoner. He looks super pissed when the General (forgetting his name) starts talking about his super weapon, which seemed like a project that Ren truly wasn't involved in or directly responsible for. Ren clearly has anger issues in other scenes ("TRAITOR" to Finn, when talking to Rey, etc).

Basically, he never really whinea to anyone verbally that I recall, but he is just in general immature and bratty. It reminds me of Luke and even Anakin.

I see what your saying but those temper tantrums with Ren are a bad look for a military commander.

I completely agree. I'm not saying he's professional at all. I'm just saying that Luke, Ren, and probably even Anakin have the same trait of being whiny/bratty/immature. I've only seen Ep. 4-6 three times each, TFA once, and Ep. 1-3 twice each, so I'm admittedly coming from a fairly inexperienced POV, but these traits seem like very obvious parallels between the three characters.

 

[Pagusas]

She sees Ren doing all sorts of stuff with the Force, including holding things still and pushing stuff away.

When? She only encountered him 1 time previous to their fight, that was in the forest when he knocked her out. Otherwise the only thing she saw him doing was trying to mind rape her.

 

[heringer]

Plus, Kylo is arrogant and completely underestimated Finn to a severe degree. Yes Finn would never be able to beat him, but Kylo underestimate him so much he didnt properly defend against some unexpected shots from Finn (who at the very least learned something from his spar with the storm trooper).

The Rey vs Kylo fight was more interesting as it was her first time even swinging the sword. Just like with the Jedi mind trick and such, I found it to push my suspension of disbelief that she is just able to do this stuff so fast. I never felt anywhere else in Star Wars has it been shown that someone can suddenly switch on the force and command it without training to the degree she was. Same with her Force pull of the lightsaber. How did she know a Jedi even could do a mind trick and a force pull? Is it from old stories and she;s just guessing? Is it repressed memories? Regardless I'm hoping future films flesh that bit out, as standing along its a bit hard to swallow.

Luke just got his lightsaber and was suddenly deflecting laser shots inside the Falcon. Sure, Ben said a couple of generic phrases about focusing on the Force, but let's face it, that was no training.
Luke also did the same force pull in the beginning of ESB. No training.

How could Rey know? Maybe repressed memories, maybe she learned a trick or two when she read Kylo's mind, or maybe she's just that strong with the Force. Indeed, it seems the Force comes more natural to her than it did for Luke, but is that really a stretch considering Luke was just a farm boy while she was a scavenger surviving by herself for over 10 years? Maybe she accidentally did weird stuff in Jakku without really knowing it was the Force, but suddenly a lot of things started making sense to her.

Personally, I like the idea of mystifying the ways of the Force again instead of limiting it to training.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Is the audio from the trailer where Kylo says "nothing will stand in our way. I will finish what you started" in the OST anywhere?

No, that wasn't Williams' music and it's not in the film.

 

[Truant]

Any interviews with Lucas about the actual film? What did he think?

 

[TubbiestPack]

Anyone found a clip with sound when Rey grabs the saber?

 

[140.85]

Any interviews with Lucas about the actual film? What did he think?

I too would love to hear this if it's been done.

 

[The Librarian]

Ren's whining to me is in his non-verbal reactions, it isn't literally whining. He is immature so he destroys a computer console when he loses a prisoner. He looks super pissed when the General (forgetting his name) starts talking about his super weapon, which seemed like a project that Ren truly wasn't involved in or directly responsible for. Ren clearly has anger issues in other scenes ("TRAITOR" to Finn, when talking to Rey, etc).

Basically, he never really whinea to anyone verbally that I recall, but he is just in general immature and bratty. It reminds me of Luke and even Anakin.

Having emotional problems is different from being whiny.

Ren has emotional problems, but he's not whiny.

When? She only encountered him 1 time previous to their fight, that was in the forest when he knocked her out. Otherwise the only thing she saw him doing was trying to mind rape her.

Ren freezes Rey still in the forest on Maz's planet, and he force pushes her in the forest after he kills Han. Not exactly a leap of logic for Rey to assume she can force-pull things.

Especially if Rey has repressed memories, which I think is very likely.

 

[Kinokou]

From an article that was linked here

Oh yay! Thank you, saved and bookmarked for appropriate occasions

Some more thoughts without playing of anyone in particular since catching up with these Star Wars threads are kind of nightmarish:

* I really didn't like the light flickering when we first saw the stormtroopers in the cargo hold. It was just super annoying on my eyes.
* I don't think Finn leaving the First Order is done entirely out of his own will. Maybe there is an internal rebellion trying to break the solider conditioning or he's some kind of sleeper agent waiting to turn at a critical moment. Sadly it's only a hunch with no evidence outside of him suddenly being moved from sanitation/whatever to a combat unit for the first time.
*The nopeing stormtroopers seems to highlight a weakness with the first order or Kylo as having your foot soldiers not wanting to deal with you can't be good for the chain of command or loyalty within the order.
*I'm skeptical of Finns competences outside of shooting blasters, especially light saber fighting. Granted we see one with a melee weapon going against Finn, I think his background as sanitation/janitor (as I have seen some comment) and lack of piloting skills should mean he isn't trained in much outside of basics, maybe in the past. I know they were to be taken and trained as kids but we don't know how long he was in a non combat job.
*Kylo kind of reminds me of Snape and is in need of a haircut.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Any interviews with Lucas about the actual film? What did he think?

He's said he liked it and that the fans would love it. I don't think he's given an in depth opinion.

 

[heringer]

I didn't get the impression Kylo was whiny. Just immature and with anger issues. What Anakin should have been.

Personally, I liked him a lot.

 

[Truant]

I didn't get the impression Kylo was whiny. Just immature and with anger issues. What Anakin should have been.

Personally, I liked him a lot.

I agree. He had to use the mask to be menacing, which was a great touch.

 

[Interfectum]

What do you people want from the next movie? In terms of material to cover and such?

The next movie needs to do more world building. First Order, New Republic, Resistance, etc.

I think JJ really set the stage for interesting characters (Finn, Rey, Kylo, Poe). Now its time to flesh out the universe, IMO.

 

[Pagusas]

*The nopeing stormtroopers seems to highlight a weakness with the first order or Kylo as having your foot soldiers not wanting to deal with you can't be good for the chain of command or loyalty within the order.

I kinda feel this was a point the film was trying to beat into our heads, Ren isn't liked or trusted in the new order. He's constanstantly being second guessed or basically told off/told on, its obvious the only reason people put up with him is fear and that he has Snokes favoure. Vader was more than feared, he was trusted to get things done, you dont get the same impression from Ren.

 

[Imperfected]

I don't know, I personally never thought you had to explain Force pull/push in-depth to someone with Force powers. Those seem like very intuitive concepts, sort of like you never have to sit a baby down and explain to it how to pick something up, the baby will naturally attempt to do it and get better at it with time.

Yoda wasn't teaching Luke to move things with the Force, he was teaching him not to underestimate how powerful it could be. I think it's reasonable to assume most Force users are going to learn how to push/pull completely untrained, they're just going to be garbage at it because they don't understand how it happens, just that it does. Yoda's the gym rat who knows all the biomechanics behind how your arm works, and he's here to show you how to really lift.

 

[heringer]

*The nopeing stormtroopers seems to highlight a weakness with the first order or Kylo as having your foot soldiers not wanting to deal with you can't be good for the chain of command or loyalty within the order.

Eh, not sure I agree with this. It's not like people were eager to deal with Vader either.

 

[Halcyon]

Eh, not sure I agree with this. It's not like people were eager to deal with Vader either.

*Gulp

 

[Grizzlyjin]

What I found fascinating about the screening I went to yesterday is that some of the jokes just didn't land at all. Like Poe asking "So who talks first?" or the Stormtroopers going the opposite direction when Ren was having a tantrum. I think maybe those were a little too subtle for some folks, but almost all the BB-8 humor landed with the entire crowd.

I'm not a big Star Wars guy at all, I've only really liked Empire Strikes Back to this point. But I enjoyed Force Awakens quite a bit. It was a lot funnier than I expected, which was surprising. And the new leads are very charming, really great chemistry between them. I thought Adam Driver did an amazing job, even without the mask. There was a point where Kylo Ren has taken his mask off and goes to speak with Snoke, and Hux enters the chamber, and Ren seems slightly uncomfortable because Hux is seeing him without the mask. Very well acted by Driver, really gives the impression the mask is a security blanket.

This is the definition of a crowd pleasing blockbuster. Even if the Star Wars name wasn't on it, you'd still be watching an enjoyable film.

 

[Anno]

I don't know, I personally never thought you had to explain Force pull/push in-depth to someone with Force powers. Those seem like very intuitive concepts, sort of like you never have to sit a baby down and explain to it how to pick something up, the baby will naturally attempt to do it and get better at it with time.

Yoda wasn't teaching Luke to move things with the Force, he was teaching him not to underestimate how powerful it could be. I think it's reasonable to assume most Force users are going to learn how to push/pull completely untrained, they're just going to be garbage at it because they don't understand how it happens, just that it does. Yoda's the gym rat who knows all the biomechanics behind how your arm works, and he's here to show you how to really lift.

Yeah I think it's a little weird that people are acting like Force Push or Force Choke are some distinct abilities you learn after leveling up. The Force always seemed much more nuanced than that in a way that may not always require the most or really any training to call to it. Training seems to be more about attaining the correct mindset to wield it while under duress. A Clone Wars episode straight up has like a two year old levitating a ball around.

 

[kurahador]

 

[Kinokou]

Eh, not sure I agree with this. It's not like people were eager to deal with Vader either.

Maybe. I could just be a difference in impression as I can't imagine anyone daring to walk away from Vader. Pagusas put it very well.

What I found fascinating about the screening I went to yesterday is that some of the jokes just didn't land at all. Like Poe asking "So who talks first?" or the Stormtroopers going the opposite direction when Ren was having a tantrum. I think maybe those were a little too subtle for some folks, but almost all the BB-8 humor landed with the entire crowd.

I don't remember anyone laughing at the first, and only me laughing because of the stormtroopers, however BB-8 worked for most.

 

[Messypandas]

That just looks like a really cumbersome weapon to use.

 

[Tomasoares]

It looks a weapon that would have a good use in bloodborne

I found it really badass lol

 

[WadiumArcadium]

That just looks like a really cumbersome weapon to use.

It's usually for riot control apparently, not fighting lightsaber users.

 

[The Chef]

This is awesome. What's it from?

 

[PandaShake]

I just wanted to chime in and say how absolutely badass the stormtroopers were in this movie, especially the one that yelled, "TRAITOR!", before brandishing his own melee weapon. It didn't matter to him if his opponent had a lightsaber.

Also, Han's delivery of "BEN" was perfect, like an angry father would.

 

[Springhettios]

Do you have the full video for that gif?

 

[Randdalf]

I have to agree with others that the musical score for TFA was a bit of a let down. I do love Rey's theme and it was very fitting. However there were some key scenes that I felt were let down by the music.

Most notably for me the scene where the X-wings come screaming across the lake to save the day was a huge let down. I was expecting a full tour de force blaring "save the day music". Some kind of soul stirring music to punch the air too and yell "YES". Instead we got some pathetic meh piece that is instantly forgettable which is a shame really because they got the music for that scene right in the first big trailer they did.

Sorry, what? We're calling the Resistance march a "pathetic meh piece" now?

That track you're talking about isn't actually on the soundtrack, but you can listen to it on http://waltdisneystudiosawards.com/#/star-wars/music if you skip ahead to "The Resistance". It actually starts of with "March of the Resistance" then transitions into Poe's theme.

 

[Imperfected]

That just looks like a really cumbersome weapon to use.

I think it's supposed to be a riot-control implement, not a weapon as such. You generally wouldn't ever use it the way the Stormtrooper does (in a heated melee), you'd just use it to prod and corral unarmed civilians.

That's what makes him rad, he's basically using taser-fu to stand against a lightsaber. Tonfa Trooper for Boba Fett 2.0.

 

[bill0527]

I didn't get the impression Kylo was whiny. Just immature and with anger issues. What Anakin should have been.

Personally, I liked him a lot.

Ren definitely wasn't whiny. He was angsty.

He's like a kid who sits in his room worshipping his death metal posters, dresses up like his heroes, and lashes out in anger when things don't go his way.

 

[jett]

Did they do anything special to have the lightsabers act as actual light sources?

This is awesome. What's it from?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3i9mgx

 

[kurahador]

This is awesome. What's it from?

Do you have the full video for that gif?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHTVoHiMxFE

 

[Pagusas]

Did they do anything special to have the lightsabers act as actual light sources?



http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3i9mgx

I thought I read they used actual glowing lightsaber props, similar to the high quality lightsaber toys you can buy, to help with illuminated the environment and actors for the fights, plus a little color boost in post.

 

[y2dvd]

So I touched on this a little in another Star Wars thread but anyone weirded out that there were no remorse for killing off these stormtroopers, especially after learning they were taken as children and brainwashed. Didn't really click with me until Finn. You figure after his story, Finn and gang would want to save these guys. Instead, stormtroopers are treated like ants to crush.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Anyone who says Luke beating Vader in a duel is more absurd than Rey besting Kylo wasn't paying much attention to Luke's training, or the subtleties of the duel really. In Empire, after Luke has had a considerable amount of training with Yoda (a couple of months or so), Vader is mostly toying with him so that he can keep him alive and deliver him to the Emperor. Had Vader really wanted to kill him, he could have at any time, as evidenced by how quickly he dispatches his hand and lightsaber once he gets annoyed.

By Return of the Jedi, Luke's abilities have grown. More time has passed, and he has continued his training on his own while he prepares to rescue Han, prior to going back to Degobah. This is clear early on as well, since he is far more confident (almost arrogant) when going to Jabba's palace. So, when he faces Vader again he is more prepared, and is able to at least fight him to a standstill. It isn't until he lets his anger flow through him that he can actually overcome Vader at all.

The point is, Luke did have a degree of training, and time to explore the Force, before being able to overcome his adversary. Rey doesn't seemingly have the same arch, although I'm willing to bet she has had training in the past, but was mind-wiped to not remember it or something. Her ability to so easily use the Force without training is kind of silly, but I suspect that we will learn that she did have some training prior to this. Also, training in the use of the Force is not the same as being able to use a lightsaber, but she may have had some of that too.

I have far more problems with Finn being able to hold his own with Kylo – injured or not – than anything that happens with Rey. Even injured, Kylo should have been able to dispatch with Finn without a problem. The fact that Finn hadn't even touched a lightsaber a few days earlier, but can now hold his own with someone who has trained extensively is kind of silly. I've trained with swords in martial arts, and when you don't know what you're doing, they can be dangerous to yourself, let alone others. Even injured, Kylo should have had no problem defeating a guy who has zero training, and barely knows which end is up on a lightsaber.

Put it his way. How close would a one-on-one basketball game be between a guy who plays every week in a local rec league vs. someone who has never touched a ball before? What if the person played college or semi-pro ball, let alone in the NBA?

 

[Palpable]

Completely ridiculous that Finn was able to stand against Kylo for even two seconds. Finn isn't a Jedi, nor does he have any saber training. Same goes for Rey against Kylo. Rey gets a mild pass because she's learning to use the Force and resisting Kylo. Finn, on the other hand, should've gotten tossed across the forest and Kylo should've pulled Anakin's saber from his hands. C'mon.

 

[The Librarian]

Anyone who says Luke beating Vader in a duel is more absurd than Rey besting Kylo wasn't paying much attention to Luke's training, or the subtleties of the duel really. In Empire, after Luke has had a considerable amount of training with Yoda (a couple of months or so),

A couple of months? Empire makes it hard to make it seem like Luke was training with Yoda for no more than a couple of days.

 

[Kitschkraft]

After watching the film three times, any romantic interest that's there is coming entirely from Finn. Rey has no interest in him beyond being a friend, but I do agree it could still happen.

I don't understand where people are getting this idea that Finn was hounding Rey throughout the movie, while she never reciprocated any interest, from. They both have little moments of interest throughout the film.

Finn's boyfriend question may have been the most blunt, but even that wasn't really followed upon.

I mean, he did leave her at Maz's. He asked her to come with, she asked him to stay, he told her to take care of herself and joined the pirates.

At the end, she's hugging, kissing, and promising to see him again.

They both seemed pretty tender towards one another, especially given that they only knew each other for like 2 days.

I think it's likely to happen by Episode 9, if not earlier, depending on what RJ does.