The Fighting Game Noob Thread: From Scrub to Master

F

FormallyFamicom

Member
If someone is looking for a sparring partner in PS3 Tekken (TTT2, or T6 if you are a strange person) you can get at me PSN: Jo_Jo_X. I would say my skill level is...average, but I understand the game well enough to give good tips.

I also can play SCV and VF5FS but I don't have an actual gauge of my level in those games anymore since I haven't played real people in like 3 years in them.
 
M

MikeBreezy92

Member
Famicom said:
If someone is looking for a sparring partner in PS3 Tekken (TTT2, or T6 if you are a strange person) you can get at me PSN: Jo_Jo_X. I would say my skill level is...average, but I understand the game well enough to give good tips.

I also can play SCV and VF5FS but I don't have an actual gauge of my level in those games anymore since I haven't played real people in like 3 years in them.
Click to expand...

yo you feel like having a FT5?
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
pattheflip said:
Great thread, Cindi! Glad to see people are still finding the ebook useful. I don't know if it's rude to plug my own stuff here, but teaching people FGs is something I'm super passionate about. So:

Selfishly, I'd like to recommend Rising Thunder -- it's an online-only PC 2D fighting game that aims to simplify the execution barrier while keeping the depth we love in SF. I say "selfishly" because I liked the game so much that I joined the dev team (including SRK/EVO founders Tom and Tony Cannon and OG FGC legends Seth Killian and Art "Maj" Mkhikian as their community manager a few months ago. It's a free-to-play PC game currently in open technical alpha (meaning no tutorial, single player, or anything fancy yet) but you can check it out at risingthunder.com and see if it's a thing you'd be interested in following as it grows. And it's built for online play (GGPO 3 baby, best netcode in the business) on a keyboard, so no excuses :p

I've started experimenting with streams and videos to teach FG concepts and thinking, so if that's a thing you're into, definitely check 'em out. And if anyone ever wants a one-on-one intro to fighting games using Rising Thunder, I'm down to do those if you don't mind being on stream. I check NeoGAF a few times a week but you can always hit me up on Twitter if you want to give it a shot!

I made a (long) video where I talk about why learning to play fighting games has been really important to me, and some basic philosophical approaches to learning fighting games, over here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-RyaicGhuo
Click to expand...

This means a lot with you coming here. Do you realize that you helped me grow so much and helped give me hope with your book? The fact you came here and gave the thread your seal of approval feels full circle. I've been re-reading your book to reapply why I know and don't know now that I'm more experienced and it's still a fantastic guide.

Thank you so much.
 
G

Grifter

Member
I've been playing fighters since SF1, come across many players over time, and have lately been pondering the natural limits of a player.

Good players tend to recognize flaws in their game and work on them thru some form of iteration and trial/error. However, just as a pro athlete usually needs to have natural genetic gifts underneath the work involved to play at that top level; what, if any, are the traits that limit even a fully committed fighter player from reaching that echelon?

Here's a first pass at what I've isolated so far:
Reaction time - the classic barrier. Having a situational answer even when you're not ready and perhaps focused elsewhere. Cuts off options and imposes pressure.

Multitasking - in the neutral game, players mentally juggle several possibilities and factors, and do so while generally imposing a gameplan and attempting to shut down the opponent's answers and options. This balance varies per play style, game, and character. The more flexible you are, the ready you'll be to apply to that string of split-second answers without telegraphing or compromising your flow.

Adaptation time - good matches involve a progression of in-game adjustments. One needs to be able to switch options on-the-fly or even come up with new ones. Some of us may be creative problem solvers but doing so mid-match to plug holes or optimally exploit reads takes a certain level of mental agility.

Speaking fundamentally, of course. Skillsets may vary per game. Putting this out there and perhaps these factors can be neutralized or minimized with the correct conditioning.
 
O

Osu 16 Bit

Member
IMO reaction time and reflexes is the least important of the things you just listed. You can get past that and mitigate the need for it with reads and match up knowledge. Quite frankly I am skeptical of most claims of reaction time feats, like no one actually reacts to 16 frame mixups. I do not have exceptional reaction time and rarely felt it played a factor.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
A lot of people think things are pure reaction when a lot of the time it's prediction and reading the situation to make an informed guess.

People play too much into the pro sports element and less into the poker element.
 
V

vulva

Member
^^^if you can't do direct wired, at least use a powerline adapter
Rentahamster said:
If there's one thing I regret, it's not jumping into the arcade scene in the beginning while it was still around during the early days of SF4. I didn't get to experience that kind of financial pressure until I tried to play in the Japanese arcades a few years later.
Click to expand...

I lived about an hour from the arcade that got SF4 in, which made for even more pressure. I couldn't just go down the street, get blown up and decide to go home. I forced myself to stick it out for hours just hoping to get some idea of what I can do to maybe get a win. After a few months of waiting, I finally was getting good enough to get a couple wins on the cabinet. Few things more rewarding than being the only white guy in the arcade and people pissed at seeing me win. I remember one guy called his friends over and I had to face 5 dudes in a row, all out to beat me. I was still awful back then, they just happened to be even worse, but that's the kind of rush you can't get from online play or even casual play at a local spot. Knowing that I wasted at least 5 bucks of someone else was such a rewarding feeling.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Osu 16 Bit said:
IMO reaction time and reflexes is the least important of the things you just listed. You can get past that and mitigate the need for it with reads and match up knowledge. Quite frankly I am skeptical of most claims of reaction time feats, like no one actually reacts to 16 frame mixups. I do not have exceptional reaction time and rarely felt it played a factor.
Click to expand...
For me, it depends on the mix-up. If it involves an animation where the character has an obvious "overhead" animation, I can react pretty well. I tend to be good at blocking Millia mix-ups and such. However, there's no way I will block something like Ryu's overhead, which is pretty subtle in its animation. It just becomes clear to me way too late what's going on. Similarly, in Marvel 3, I once heard UltraDavid react with surprise when Marn said that Spencer's overhead was really easy to react to, and I thought it was common sense because Spencer's animation is so distinct when he goes for the overhead.
 
Marvel

Marvel

could never
USF4

I have stopped mashing, finally. Only took 6+ months to get out of that stupid habbit. Bye bye obscene amounts of counter hit dmg.

Wakeup buttons/dp is also gone as everyone punishes me for it almost always, whiffing less feels fantastic. I knew I'd up my game by slowing my brain down and stop panicking.

Praaacteeeece, Marvel praacteeeece.

Jumped up 300pp last night to 800 ish I think. Still can't beat a Blanka though
 
K

Kadey

Mrs. Harvey
In my opinion beginners shouldn't even worry about things like framedata. Hell anybody who isn't a competitive player shouldn't worry about it. Even a good handful of competitive players do not worry about it. Nothing beats playing the game yourself and experiencing things. Besides, numbers don't explain everything.
 
S

Sayad

Member
Reaction time have way more elements which contribute to it than just human reaction. A bigger factor to reaction time than a person's ability to react as fast as possible is situational awareness. Even top level "Japanese" GG players get hit with a +20 frame dust attack every now and then, not because they don't have the reaction speed to block it but rather because at that moment, they weren't expecting it.

Another big hurdle, especially for people new to fighting games, is the set up. If you're playing on a big ass TV with +50 ms of lag using a wireless controller in room with other active wireless controllers, don't expect to be blocking overheads.

There's an excellent read about reaction time in videogames here:
http://kayin.moe/?p=2047

stackreduction.png
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
Kadey said:
In my opinion beginners shouldn't even worry about things like framedata. Hell anybody who isn't a competitive player shouldn't worry about it. Even a good handful of competitive players do not worry about it. Nothing beats playing the game yourself and experiencing things. Besides, numbers don't explain everything.
Click to expand...

Beginners shouldn't worry about it but they should know about start up, active, and recovery IMO. Especially recovery and start up.
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
Cindi Mayweather said:
Beginners shouldn't worry about it but they should know about start up, active, and recovery IMO. Especially recovery and start up.
Click to expand...
Yeah, people throw out DPs and crouching heavy kicks like they were light punches and wonder why get blown up. Knowing how to properly analyze the three types of frame times for moves alongside spacing (footsies) is the most important fundamental in fighting games and that knowledge will always prove useful in future fighters (even from different IP).
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
You can learn about those things without ever learning the frame data. Just know that a slow move is going to get you slapped if it whiffs or is blocked.
 
J

joffocakes

Member
Blanka can be tricky. Here's a few things that can help with the matchup, at least against the less accomplished Blanka player:

Pretty much all of Blanka's wakeup options can be beaten out with a low attack. Abuse him with meaty low attacks on his wakeup. A lot of Blanka players in ranked like to wakeup with something rather than block. You might even sweep three wakeup attacks in a row before they learn to block. Be wary if he has Ultra as that will win.

Be aware that his EX Upball is invincible and so will beat you if you're right in his face; a max range Ryu cr.mk/sweep will cause it to whiff and sail over you to punish as he falls.

Blocking Blanka's horizontal balls standing will land him closer to you since your standing hurtbox is narrower than crouch block. Learn how to punish a blocked Blanka ball to discourage its abuse; almost all characters have something they can punish with (T.Hawk might be an exception, depending on range).

Some Blanka players may go for an EX Rainbow Ball out of nowhere as a "tricky" crossup. Press and hold your Focus Attack and you'll absorb the hit and can crumple him as he lands. Be aware that if they use any Rainbow ball as a reversal attack on wakeup it will break armour so Focus will lose (Also worth knowing that experienced Blanka players will note that you're focusing rainbow balls and deliberately whiff to land near you and punish).

The first hit of Blanka's Ultra 1 should be blocked low and the rest standing. Again, make sure you punish heavily.

If you block Blanka's electricity he's at advantage so don't press buttons immediately afterward. If he's mashing just use a low attack from range or an invincible move if close. Learn what your character can do.

His short hop move (which many Blanka players will abuse into throws or electricity) will skip over your low attacks. Mash cr.lp instead to discourage him.

I'm sure there are more key things I'm missing but hopefully that should be enough to focus on for now; take a Blanka player on in an Endless set and see how much better you fare as you take advantage of his weaknesses.

Feel free to correct anything I'm incorrect about, folks.
 
S

storafötter

Member
Great idea for a thread. My problem with remaining a scrub has to do with impatience and stressful play when playing against others. I always forget to block or mash all the buttons. If I am doing training mode or single player I am always calm and collected about combos and command inputs. I feel like Divekick is a good game for teaching zoning and fundementals. That game I can excel in.
 
Marvel

Marvel

could never
joffocakes said:
snip
Click to expand...
Great tips regarding Blanka!

Oh and I recognize you from the leaderboards, #1 Dan in the EU right? awesome. I'm trying to catch up lol I'm Assassio and currently #10 EU with Dan as he's also my main and fave.

Didn't know you were on gaf.
 
J

joffocakes

Member
Marvel said:
Great tips regarding Blanka!

Oh and I recognize you from the leaderboards, #1 Dan in the EU right? awesome. I'm trying to catch up lol I'm Assassio and currently #10 EU with Dan as he's also my main and fave.

Didn't know you were on gaf.
Click to expand...

Ha, yep; that's me. Number one on a ranked leader board hasn't translated to much in reality: lost hard in a mirror match versus Ixion at this year's Hypespotting.

Good luck with Dan! He's great fun in Ultra when you manage to get in on an opponent.
 
Marvel

Marvel

could never
joffocakes said:
Good luck with Dan! He's great fun in Ultra when you manage to get in on an opponent.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah man, some definitely go into a match way too relaxed against Dan lol just gotta get in as you said. Very rewarding character, for me anyway.
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
Cindi Mayweather said:
You can learn about those things without ever learning the frame data. Just know that a slow move is going to get you slapped if it whiffs or is blocked.
Click to expand...
Knowing the rough estimates isn't a bad thing and it's a great thing to know that your character has the fastest jab in the game or a safe heavy punch on block. These are things even a knowledgeable person wouldn't pick up on just with eyesight. The trick is to not spend hours pouring over frame data like it'll improve your footsies or magically make you capable of reading the opponent. Just the small stuff can make a huge difference.
 
B

bryt

Member
I played Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 competitively, but sadly the scene here has been dead for over a year :( So I've been trying to pick up Xrd for the past 2 weeks since the speed of the game is similar and I'm having a ton of fun even though I'm a scrub at it.

The biggest problem I have right now is I have no idea how to play offense in this game. The setplay happens at such a faster pace than in Marvel. In Marvel you have time to think about what you're going do to on their incoming while you're doing your 1 touch kill, but in Xrd it's a short combo into knockdown, then oki. You gotta be able to think about your offense so quickly. I guess that just comes with practice to be able to mix up your oki super fluidly.
 
DryvBy

DryvBy

Member
So I've been playing USFIV and while I'm not that great (because I never learn from my bad habits), I can't use my fight stick at all. I'm the absolute worst character. Any videos/tips on how to actually master using a stick?
 
C

chronic_archaic

Member
Why the complete lack of handheld mentions in the OP? Smash is on 3DS, and DOA5, SFXT, BlazBlue and UMVC3 are all on Vita. Come to think of it the Vita has a ton of fighters...

Anyway - I'd be down for some UMVC3, Tekken 6, or Soul Calibur II on 360. I have TTT2 but no online pass :(
 
M

Manbig

Member
Some Tekken resources that I wanted to share with relatively new players, or 2D players that are trying to get the hang of playing Tekken for the first time. Note that this stuff all applies to Tekken 7 also.

Aris made some great beginner videos:

Tying Moves Together With Movement
Aris' note about every character having the same template in this video is especially important, because one of the most intimidating things about Tekken is the giant movelists. It is very important to realize that once you learn one character, grasping what's going on when looking at the rest of the cast's movelist becomes a much easier task than you would think.

The Application of Frame Data
Basic knowledge of how frame data works is not a requirement to understand this video, but it is recommended.

Familiarity With Situations Makes A Player
This one covers a universal concept. It pretty much applies to all competitive games/activities.

His youtube channel has several other great Tekken and Soul Calibur 2 videos that are pulled from his stream. Just search for the games in his channel.

https://www.youtube.com/user/AvoidingthePuddle/videos
 
C

CountBlack

Member
I should probably upload some of my many XRD L's so y'all could help me out :(

Dunno if I should just stick with Ky or continue trying to learn Sin which has been a pain
 
S

sasuke_91

Member
German TTT2 player here. If anyone from EU wants a sparring partner, add me:
UchihaSasuke_91

I don't consider myself good enough to really teach the game, but I understand the game well enough to give some advice :p
My mains are Hwoarang and Steve. Second team is Xiaoyu and Leo.
 
J

_jnup

Member
Feel free to add me
PSN: BruceLeeAH
Steam ID: EMP|RandomCambodian

PS4: USFIV (Main), BlazBlue, Xrd. Terrible at anime fighters
PS3: 3rd Strike, HDR, USFIV, KOFXII
Steam: USFIV, KOFXII, KOF2002, KOF98UM

I'm usually range from 1000-1500pp in USFIV.
 
Cindi Mayweather

Cindi Mayweather

Member
chronic_archaic said:
Why the complete lack of handheld mentions in the OP? Smash is on 3DS, and DOA5, SFXT, BlazBlue and UMVC3 are all on Vita. Come to think of it the Vita has a ton of fighters...

Anyway - I'd be down for some UMVC3, Tekken 6, or Soul Calibur II on 360. I have TTT2 but no online pass :(
Click to expand...

It's mostly because the thread is about getting to competence. Historically, handhelds have been awful for fighting games: less buttons, limited competition, fighting AI was your main option. You could definitely use handheld versions of the game for practice, and that's if you use the standard pad that comes out of your systems box (the rest of us sticks or six button pads), so that limits who can use handheld fighters from the jump, too. Practice seems to be their main benefit, everything else, it's pretty impossible to do serious play on them. You could do them casually, but this isn't a casual thread. If people want me to list handheld versions then, I'll list em, but that's the logic I had in excluding them.

http://shoryuken.com/2011/11/23/portable-systems-as-a-serious-platform-for-fighting-games/
 
Tornix

Tornix

Member
CountBlackule said:
I should probably upload some of my many XRD L's so y'all could help me out :(

Dunno if I should just stick with Ky or continue trying to learn Sin which has been a pain
Click to expand...

Go ahead. We'd be happy to help. Are you new to the game? If so, I'd say to stick with Ky until you've gotten used to the mechanics.
 
Razzorn34

Razzorn34

Member
pizzacat said:
Super tip: FUCKING USE A WIRED CONNECTION WIFI WARRIORS MUST BE STOPPED
Click to expand...

Honestly, this should be mentioned in the OP. Many people get frustrated playing in online lag, and quickly blame the game. They might not realize their crappy wireless setup could easily be the culprit.

If you are serious about playing online fighters, get a wired connection, people.
 
C

CountBlack

Member
Tornix said:
Go ahead. We'd be happy to help. Are you new to the game? If so, I'd say to stick with Ky until you've gotten used to the mechanics.
Click to expand...

Not totally new, I've been playing it on and off for a few months. I have most of the mechanics down but there's just so damn many.
 
N

NoctisVsStar

Member
I feel 3s play translates well to SFV. Haven't played 3s in awhile I'm returning back tonight gotta get use to the speed of the game again and all those killers on XBL.
 
C

ClutchAnderson

Member
This thread makes me unbelievably happy haha.

If anyone is looking to spar on DOA, USFIV, or GGXRD on PS4 add me. (My psn is the same as my GAF name)

I'm also trying to get back into Virtua Fighter 5 FS on PS3.

Let's gitgud :3
 
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