You are very welcome.
PC gaming should adopt a console approach to regain momentum.
- Thread starter MRORANGE
- Start date
You are very welcome.
I think it's safe to say that PC gaming is trailing behind looking at these figures from one publisher, while it's doing beter than before it's still get it's arse kicked by ps3/xb360 which is quite frankly embarrassing.
In this thread we will discuss on how PC gaming should approach a console cycle approach like experience to gain growth.
The number one problem with PC gaming is still the fact that a for a beginner it's very hard to get into, Now before we being we must first tell ourselves what a beginner PC person is.
- It is not a person who knows the inards of a PC
- It is not a person who is tech-savy enough to build a PC.
- It is not a person who can tell the difference between enthusiast hardware
- It is not a person who has time and patience to install hardware/software
Now hopefully this has cleared the air and we won't get derailed by comments on how 'easy to build...blah.blah'
Now if a person went into a electronics store they would have no idea on what to buy by looking at the specs, thier best option would be to buy something like this:
While that PC isn't bad spec-wise, gamers can easily get duped by flashy gear that does not do much, one example:
Not only is the fact that it is a poor gaming pc, the specs will confuse any beginner. A user will buy this hoping to run the latest games and get terrible performance or they will get a game and not understand why it's not running on their system, this is a big turn off for people who are used to games just working, like they do on a console.
The solution?
The easy way to lift this barrier is to ged rid of specs. developers and manufacturers should comply with what they think is the spec for PC games should be that year, for example in 2012 they could assume a dual core with a 1GB GPU with 4GB ram would be sufficient and that would be the baseline standard, but a 2016 PC could be specced as quad core with 8GB ram and 2gb GPU. .They could then label this badge on the PC, stating it's capability:
But what about if people wanted choice like on a PC?
well we could colour code each year with different colours, even go to the extent of colouring components to match performance to give an idea of people who need to upgrade as well, by albelling them as slow/medium and fast.
4K 45fps GOOD
Okay 1080P 60fps
Slow - 720P
Publishers could comply and start adopting this easy to read format:
The company that could have implemented this was Valve with SteamOS but for some reason they wanted PC builders to do their own thing, which to my knowledge caused more setbacks and confusion and the poor amount of sales of Steamboxes.
The benefits:
- A lot easier for people to buy a gaming pc and understand how it will perform
- publishers and devlopers can understand what systems people will have
- clarifies easily on what games are compatible.
Thoughts? How else could PC gaming be simpllified to beginners?
no
No I genuinely wonder how so many people have these insanely esoteric issues with their machines. Who knows what people visit/install nowadays.
Modern Windows is so piss easy and self sufficient (even has a basic and fully functional AV built in) nowadays that I don't even really have to do much beyond open steam or origin or whatever and click my on my game. It's not perfect, sure, and like... A minuscule percentile of people can certainly run in to bugs, but no more than the people that have to clear ps4 caches or figure out the ps4 eject problem or what have you.
XP sure sucked for casual use but that was over a decade ago. How many consoles have people gone through since then?
Finaika
Member
I thought the only difference between an i7 and an i5 is hyper-threading?
rakkadakka
Member
This has to be a joke thread.
PC's are the easiest they've ever been to put together and play games on.
PC's are the easiest they've ever been to put together and play games on.
Saintruski
Unconfirmed Member
Well cache, clock, lanes, etc, too depending on the model. They (i7) are faster for productive/general purposes and games that like threading. Other than that you won't see much of a difference in gaming, however were talking specifically gaming, and probably DX11.
Elitist1945
Member
At a certain point don't you have to install an older operation system to play a game, say, from the 90s? I want to play my Titanic: Adventure out of Time disc but haven't a clue how.
TriAceJP
Member
People overcomplicate PCs for no reason.
Read a gaming PC guide if you don't know what you're doing.
Drivers haven't been an issue for a decade now. Install your hardware, Windows will take care of almost everything. Install the GPU management software and that will keep you up to date. It's simple. It takes ten minutes. I can honestly bet I could get a game running from installing an OS to launch faster on a PC than a current day console.
Runtimes are installed automatically on Steam and mostly every other launcher.
It's pretty much 2016. These 'PCs are complicated' threads are tired and unfound.
Read a gaming PC guide if you don't know what you're doing.
Drivers haven't been an issue for a decade now. Install your hardware, Windows will take care of almost everything. Install the GPU management software and that will keep you up to date. It's simple. It takes ten minutes. I can honestly bet I could get a game running from installing an OS to launch faster on a PC than a current day console.
Runtimes are installed automatically on Steam and mostly every other launcher.
It's pretty much 2016. These 'PCs are complicated' threads are tired and unfound.
Google dosbox. If you can't be arsed to, there are sites that set up old games to run under VMs for you automagically, like GOG
freenudemacusers
Member
Screenshots of brute forced graphics always leave me cold. I prefer the more artistic and film-like quality of first party console games. Plus I feel it make for more elegant code when you can't just add more ram to fix a poorly optimized game. Better standards.
Well, does PC gaming really need to be as big as console gaming when it comes to certain genres?
I've kinda always seen PC as a collection of a bunch of healthy niches sitting on the background of some extremely popular sub-markets that are popular because they operate on personal computers everybody already owns. I've heard that a lot of the kind of people who play WoW, League, or Eve Online aren't even really aware of other video games. They're not really part of the conventional video game market that Sony, Microsoft, EA, and Ubisoft try to sell to. Maybe the issue is that a lot of people still look at the western AAA console market as the "core" of gaming when it's really just another segment. This has been especially true since around 2008 when mobile and PC started growing a lot faster. Sure back in the 80's and 90's the gaming world was centrally about consoles and arcades, but times have changed.
Basically what I'm saying is, the OP seems to be judging the "momentum" of PC in terms of the popularity of multiplatform games or PC gaming's popularity among the western audience that buys Call of Duty and Madden. It's true that more and more traditionally console games are coming to PC these days, and it's probably because publishers have decided there's enough of an audience there to make PC ports a worthwhile investment. Those games though still aren't all the most important games in the PC market.
And the people who look at and judge PC gaming based just on those games in my opinion don't want what PC gaming really is, at least not the full breadth of it. What they really want is console gaming on an open platform. I don't know, maybe one day if there was a platform that merged the easy-to-understand singular hardware spec of a console with the open software ecosystem of PC a lot of those more hardcore console players would flock to it as a better balance of flexibility and ease of use.
I've kinda always seen PC as a collection of a bunch of healthy niches sitting on the background of some extremely popular sub-markets that are popular because they operate on personal computers everybody already owns. I've heard that a lot of the kind of people who play WoW, League, or Eve Online aren't even really aware of other video games. They're not really part of the conventional video game market that Sony, Microsoft, EA, and Ubisoft try to sell to. Maybe the issue is that a lot of people still look at the western AAA console market as the "core" of gaming when it's really just another segment. This has been especially true since around 2008 when mobile and PC started growing a lot faster. Sure back in the 80's and 90's the gaming world was centrally about consoles and arcades, but times have changed.
Basically what I'm saying is, the OP seems to be judging the "momentum" of PC in terms of the popularity of multiplatform games or PC gaming's popularity among the western audience that buys Call of Duty and Madden. It's true that more and more traditionally console games are coming to PC these days, and it's probably because publishers have decided there's enough of an audience there to make PC ports a worthwhile investment. Those games though still aren't all the most important games in the PC market.
And the people who look at and judge PC gaming based just on those games in my opinion don't want what PC gaming really is, at least not the full breadth of it. What they really want is console gaming on an open platform. I don't know, maybe one day if there was a platform that merged the easy-to-understand singular hardware spec of a console with the open software ecosystem of PC a lot of those more hardcore console players would flock to it as a better balance of flexibility and ease of use.
Finaika
Member
It still have issues compared to consoles though.
Just installed a PCIE soundcard in my new PC, the thing now refuses to shutdown or sleep, its driving me crazy.
sadaiyappan
Member
You can run in compatability mode or virtual machine I think.
Elitist1945
Member
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
The last two jobs I've had were marketing for network/storage hardware companies. Naming conventions for Intel and Nvidia at least follow a logical progression (900 > 800 > 700, etc), but I've seen some products where a (for example) 231 is better than a 261. I brought this up with both companies - one of them follows strict rules where every letter/number means something, but the other just seemed to pick random numbers and letters and symbols. Basically because they have no imagination for "proper" names and as the intended customers are IT professionals who're willing to do research before buying, they don't really need to have names.
Personally I think that if you're going to spend over $100 on something you should do at least 30 minutes research to see if you're getting the best product for the best price. But I agree, all mass-market-focused hardware should have consumer-friendly names or easy identifiers.
odhiex
Member
I want PC gaming to stay with all of it's strength, don't try to be a console. Of course, I like the idea of small-form factor Steam Machines (in fact, I'm interested to get one). Make the U.I simpler, easy settings and all that.
However, PC enthusiasts are those who are interested in thinkering the settings, higher benchmarks, mods, etc... this is the PC gamers market that you should not be ignored.
However, PC enthusiasts are those who are interested in thinkering the settings, higher benchmarks, mods, etc... this is the PC gamers market that you should not be ignored.
PC gaming is all about options, and it would be good to have more options for people who aren't super savvy. Consoles are still around because they require zero effort on that part. For some people, zero effort will always be preferable to some effort, no matter how little.
I can't tell if Mr Orange is joking or not, it's so dumb. Nobody is going to make those standards, there's no benefit to businesses. For those standards to exist there also wouldn't be a PC platform as it exists today.
How about we stop trying to treat the platform as a fourth console?
How about we stop trying to treat the platform as a fourth console?
Dust-by-Monday
Member
I like how hassle-free console gaming is. I buy the disc, I put it in, and it's guaranteed to work the way the developer intended.
Not saying console games are perfect, but I never have to tinker with things.
Sometimes it sucks not being able to change certain things like draw distance or v-sync, but I spend more time enjoying the game, rather than changing settings.
I've done PC gaming in the past, and I'm never happy. I just keep fiddling with graphics and drivers and I forget to actually play the game. I'll have the settings just how I like them, then I'll see a glitch or get to a part of the game that doesn't run quite as good and I have to fiddle some more. I was just never happy with any of the settings. Just constantly turning this off and turning that on and adjusting this slider and that slider. It just became my obsession.
Consoles eliminate all of that for me. Just pop the disc in and play it the way they designed it. If it lagged a bit, there's nothing I could do about it, so I just dealt with it and simply payed more attention to the game, rather than the frame rate.
Not saying console games are perfect, but I never have to tinker with things.
Sometimes it sucks not being able to change certain things like draw distance or v-sync, but I spend more time enjoying the game, rather than changing settings.
I've done PC gaming in the past, and I'm never happy. I just keep fiddling with graphics and drivers and I forget to actually play the game. I'll have the settings just how I like them, then I'll see a glitch or get to a part of the game that doesn't run quite as good and I have to fiddle some more. I was just never happy with any of the settings. Just constantly turning this off and turning that on and adjusting this slider and that slider. It just became my obsession.
Consoles eliminate all of that for me. Just pop the disc in and play it the way they designed it. If it lagged a bit, there's nothing I could do about it, so I just dealt with it and simply payed more attention to the game, rather than the frame rate.
Finaika
Member
Its pretty simple; just buy the biggest number ie 6700K.
Not to mention those standards are a moving target. HIgh end this year could be mid range or even low end in the next 2 or 3 years depending on what advances come to market.
TheAssist
Member
For building PC's there are dozens of sites that explain the builds, you dont even need any knowledge before hand
example: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/newegg-system-builder-marathon-q4-2015-prosumer-pc,4393.html
From what I've heard there are also online stores that give you a rough estimate for example how a given gpu will perform in a given game.
If you are not willing to spend 2 hours or so before spending several hundred bucks than yes, PC gaming isnt for you. Spending money on anything more complex than a toaster isnt for you. I mean seriously, you dont buy a car simply judging from its headlights. You do some research. Its simply required. But the resources a very accessible, people are just too lazy and/or uninterested. And if you are uninterested than just stick to whatever floats your boat. No need for a whole industry to bend to the lowest common denominator.
I just dont get the PC's are too complicated thing anymore. Just buy one of those recommended PC's, pretty much every big electronics etailer will prebuild it for you and install windows. The only drivers I install are graphic card drivers and that takes literally 3 clicks or so (you can update your console firmware? Great you can update your gpu drivers).
And I assume almost everyone uses a computer at work. So you know the basic principles of how to turn it on and off. You click on icons to open programs. The internet is a thing you've probably heard of by now. Installing games is LITERALLY a single button press on steam/gog (and it says "install game" or something similar.)
If you are so unwilling to go through those very basic steps than PC's in general arent for you. Everything here is totally decentralized. You have like 3 big internet browser options and a dozen smaller ones. And each can be customized. There are dozens of programs to view/edit pictures/movies/music. You can run several programs at once and switch between them instantly. I know overwhelming right?
PC is an open platform with hundreds of companies competing. Everything need consideration. Be it your anti virus software, your games, your entertainment programs, your office suite, whatever. But as long as you can read and take a few minutes before jumping into things' you will be completely fine and can enjoy the power of companies catering to your every need.
Also porn. Like. A lot.
Sorry its 5 in the morning, I'm tired and grumpy.
I'm going to bed now.
example: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/newegg-system-builder-marathon-q4-2015-prosumer-pc,4393.html
From what I've heard there are also online stores that give you a rough estimate for example how a given gpu will perform in a given game.
If you are not willing to spend 2 hours or so before spending several hundred bucks than yes, PC gaming isnt for you. Spending money on anything more complex than a toaster isnt for you. I mean seriously, you dont buy a car simply judging from its headlights. You do some research. Its simply required. But the resources a very accessible, people are just too lazy and/or uninterested. And if you are uninterested than just stick to whatever floats your boat. No need for a whole industry to bend to the lowest common denominator.
I just dont get the PC's are too complicated thing anymore. Just buy one of those recommended PC's, pretty much every big electronics etailer will prebuild it for you and install windows. The only drivers I install are graphic card drivers and that takes literally 3 clicks or so (you can update your console firmware? Great you can update your gpu drivers).
And I assume almost everyone uses a computer at work. So you know the basic principles of how to turn it on and off. You click on icons to open programs. The internet is a thing you've probably heard of by now. Installing games is LITERALLY a single button press on steam/gog (and it says "install game" or something similar.)
If you are so unwilling to go through those very basic steps than PC's in general arent for you. Everything here is totally decentralized. You have like 3 big internet browser options and a dozen smaller ones. And each can be customized. There are dozens of programs to view/edit pictures/movies/music. You can run several programs at once and switch between them instantly. I know overwhelming right?
PC is an open platform with hundreds of companies competing. Everything need consideration. Be it your anti virus software, your games, your entertainment programs, your office suite, whatever. But as long as you can read and take a few minutes before jumping into things' you will be completely fine and can enjoy the power of companies catering to your every need.
Also porn. Like. A lot.
Sorry its 5 in the morning, I'm tired and grumpy.
I'm going to bed now.
MickeyKnox
Member
I love this thread.
Spazznid
Member
Asked and answered.
I wouldn't mind some affordable + good console-like PCs to help make the platform more popular and accessible. Basically like Valve's Steam machines, but cheap and with Windows. I want a console-sized Alienware Alpha type PC that's as strong as a PS4 for $450 tops that comes with Windows and a Steam controller, and the case / motherboard is such that a full size GPU can be used.
TriAceJP
Member
And my PS4 refuses to display when hooked into my HDMI switch for literally no reason, even with HDCP off. Go figure.
For your sound card, run powercfg -requests in a admin privileged command prompt and see what exactly is doing it.
packy34
Member
Valve tried and will probably fail with Steam Machines, though there are many factors leading to its likely demise.
The problem with this approach is that it's targeting a market that doesn't exist. People who game on PC do so usually for one or more of the most obvious benefits: the precision of keyboard/mouse controls, vast and rapid performance boosts over consoles/swappable hardware components, and root access to the operating system allowing for mods. Steam Machines offer none of these benefits. I don't think there exists a way to easily bridge the PC and console worlds without limiting what normal PCs can do or Valve would have done it.
If someone is interested in PC gaming, the easiest, most cost-effective, and most efficient way to start is to learn how to build one... Not turn the PC into "ConsolePlus". I understand the data and perceived difficulty, but it really isn't that hard of the interest is truly there. PC is way down compared to consoles, but has grown over the past 2 generations. There is no need for radical change.
The problem with this approach is that it's targeting a market that doesn't exist. People who game on PC do so usually for one or more of the most obvious benefits: the precision of keyboard/mouse controls, vast and rapid performance boosts over consoles/swappable hardware components, and root access to the operating system allowing for mods. Steam Machines offer none of these benefits. I don't think there exists a way to easily bridge the PC and console worlds without limiting what normal PCs can do or Valve would have done it.
If someone is interested in PC gaming, the easiest, most cost-effective, and most efficient way to start is to learn how to build one... Not turn the PC into "ConsolePlus". I understand the data and perceived difficulty, but it really isn't that hard of the interest is truly there. PC is way down compared to consoles, but has grown over the past 2 generations. There is no need for radical change.
Hawk269
Member
It is, but the average consumer would be completely lost. We still get a lot of people here on Gaf in the PC Build thread stating they are scared or worried about doing it on their own because of screwing something up. The average person that does not go on forums and such would be lost in building a PC.
I get what the OP is going for, but not sure if it would be feasible at all. I mean, it would have to come down to a PS4/Xbox One type of system that allows people to get a better processor, ram, gpu for those that want the high end.
chromatic9
Member
I've read where people see a higher number on a recommended pc specs list and think their current hardware is no longer good and get bummed out thinking they have to "upgrade again". Example is i5 4460 vs 2500k, they have the same performance but 2500k is 4 years older.
TheAssist
Member
But thats the thing. You dont have to build it yourself. Prebuild PC's exist since, you know, the PC.
Why is there this thought that you have to buy every individual part and put it together yourself. You buy it, finished and ready to use, just like a laptop.
fluffydelusions
Member
not sure if serious or going with the tone of the thread
unholyrevenger72
Banned
not really, Valve released the average specs of the computers linked to steam and the performance of the computers were on par with that of consoles.
packy34
Member
"One or more..."
Impossible. PC has no aliasing
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
I would argue that it's the manufacturers flooding the market with slightly different pc parts that are overcomplicating the whole thing.
It's far too much research for someone that knows nothing about pc and can be confusing for people that do know about pc.
Also, how much of the console market is being consumed by young kids? I don't expect them to know how to or want to build a pc.
A company needs to change how PCs are built. Make them snap together like Legos or something so upgrading a GPU or ram is super simple. Kinda like how they wanted to make the phoneblocks modular phone.
Tizoc
Member
But those adopt pc-like practices :/
TriAceJP
Member
People are afraid of research. Look into the car market for more proof of this.
PCGamer has up to date buying guides that explain what things are and why you need them.
fluffydelusions
Member
minus the pay to play online nonsense
Glass Shark
Banned
Congratulations, you've invented a bad solution to a problem that doesn't exist in the first place.
League of Legends has 30+ million active daily players.
Valve makes $20MM per month from Dota alone.
WoW still has over 5 million monthly subscribers.
PC gaming hasn't lost momentum, it's thriving. It will be kept alive by these massive games if nothing else.
League of Legends has 30+ million active daily players.
Valve makes $20MM per month from Dota alone.
WoW still has over 5 million monthly subscribers.
PC gaming hasn't lost momentum, it's thriving. It will be kept alive by these massive games if nothing else.
It didn't and this is a thread based on nonsense.
Numbers never lie and liars all use numbers. In this case so they can make a thread of hyperbole. Must be a future politician. Or media. Making noise out of nothing.
They're pretty goddamn easy to put together when you have a set of compatible parts. There are PLENTY of resources out there that will help you create that set. It's just a matter of fitting the correct fitting cabled and sliding in cards .. A nine year old could do it.
copelandmaster
Member
This thread is poo
But I really like this post. This seems pretty cool, I had no idea arcades were going PC as early as 1997 (or earlier). I thought that was a thing SEGA started doing with Lindberg (or Chihiro, if you can count an Xbox based board as a PC) and everybody else caught on eventually.
The idea was tried for arcades.
circa 1997.
But I really like this post. This seems pretty cool, I had no idea arcades were going PC as early as 1997 (or earlier). I thought that was a thing SEGA started doing with Lindberg (or Chihiro, if you can count an Xbox based board as a PC) and everybody else caught on eventually.
Uh, installing a GPU or ram is literally something that you slide in and snap together?