And all those "otaku" games are on handhelds and sony systems. If this was really focus tested, they would've known that audience isn't on wii u.
But Atlus still chose this theme anyway.
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What were Nintendo and Atlus thinking when making #FE ?
- Thread starter GhostTrick
- Start date
But Atlus still chose this theme anyway.
Space Medafighter X
Member
Each region has their own overplayed tropes.
I can't help but roll my eyes at another RPG that takes place in some medieval Europe land with Trolls and Goblins, or ANOTHER shooter being announced (COD does help with its yearly releases).
Then again I'm out of the loop with these types of games.
This sounds like a terrible day to release a game from a business perspective. Nobody's buying shit after Christmas unless it's for something like Three Kings Day, and as far as I know Japan doesn't have anything like that.
As someone who hasn't been interested in SMT proper or FE I'll say I have been looking forward to this game, and I hope it comes west so I can try it out on my region locked wii u.
That being said, the localization could potentially be a nightmare and put off many potential buyers here as well.
That being said, the localization could potentially be a nightmare and put off many potential buyers here as well.
Jonneh3003
Banned
People tend to get lots of money and vouchers given to them at Christmas, I don't think it's an awful idea. That being said before Christmas is certainly better if there isn't much competition.
This logic makes little sense. Do you really think companies don't focus test to get into competitor's pies? If Nintendo were to launch a semi-futuristic miltary shooter called Call of Heroism, would that somehow disqualify the game from seeming like a cynical cash grab, since the audience was on competing systems?
Not to mention the game is a first party partnership and the formation of the game took place after the game and platform was announced.
kuroneko0509
Member
??? that thing exist since 1st fire emblem
That's the thing here, I don't think I played a jrpg that is about idols and the industry the way that this game is.
Modest Mauser
Member
This is exactly how I feel. The whole sexualized, cutesy idol fanservice stuff isn't actually a serious part of Persona or why the series is loved by its fans, but for whatever reason it has that reputation.
I'm not even disappointed anymore that this game isn't the mashup of FE and SMT people expected. As a work by itself it just doesn't appeal to me on any level.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
I don't know OP. There was a lot of potential bu the resulting project fails to sufficiently appeal with SMT or FE fans and no, it doesn't replicate at all what made Persona so beloved.
yup. Like everything these companies do, it comes down to ROI. And yes, mistakes get made.
There's a limit to how much guidance the results of focus testing should have in the decisions of the creation a new IP. Otherwise Splatoon wouldn't have been the way it was if it was focus tested to heck and back. Yeah, we would've gotten another military shooter if nintnedo went that route.
And if there really is a "big otaku audience" you think Atlus would've waited this long to get in on it with a big budget game? Don't "otaku" games sell measly amounts but recoup costs only because they don't really cost much to make? That's why they keep popping up on the sales charts, disappearing, then in a year or two have another game from the same developer chart at the same 20,000 units.
That's why Anna is the best.
RayearthRob
Member
Elaugaufein
Member
The only other Wii U exclusive JRPG is XBX and the non-exclusuves are pretty much non-existant. And XBX is an ARPG which means the crossover is a fair bit below 100%. The fricking PS4 is a better JRPG machine than the Wii U and its got about 4 exclusives but at least it's got more coming.
I don't know what they were thinking. This game would have done better on literally any other active system. Unless the game was to pull in the JRPG crowd but you need more than 2 games to do that.
This seems wildly unlikely. Of the 4 pre-Awakening games not one had more than 2/3rd the sales , Radiant Dawn did less than half and the immediate predecessor didn't even make it to the West. If your theory were true you'd also expect a sales drop on Fates after people were disappointed with Awakening but the opposite happened: sales rose, which is what you'd expect from a strong previous entry.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
I didn't mean that literally. I think it could have crossed 100k if it resembled an actual SMTxFE game.
captainpat
Member
Aren't these J-pop idols huge in Japan? Seems like a weird thing to label otaku-oriented.
Hibiki Kurosawa
Member
Not sure. It looks great gameplay-wise, but there's no doubt crossing over the actual worlds/styles of FE and SMT would have been so much cooler and more badass.
There are people here that are otaku for labeling things otaku-culture, lol.
Seems like the meaning of the word is lost on most people though.
Elaugaufein
Member
That's the case in both Persona 3 and 4. Unless you count some incredibly heavily scripted things that use a pseudo-battle interface. SMT IV takes a while to hit the first battle too. JRPGs basically come in 2 flavours in that regard: Open In Media Res or a reasonably long setup as they establish everything, maybe with a couple of heavily scripted pseudo-battles, that play almost like cutscenes, along the way.
A psuedo battle that at least tries to teach the battle system in some way is a million times better than 30min of nothing. Like, that's longer than an episode of anime for goodness sake.
RpgN
Junior Member
Count me to the people who expected something different with this game's reveal. I can't deny being disappointed at that time and wanted something different.
Then I wachted the first 2 hours thanks to Gamexplain. I'm left being more positive and appreciate the quality of the game. Sure there are still upbeat moments, focus on idol and some fanservice pandering shots (a young looking character calling others brother and sister the whole time while sounding all cute, costumes/dresses etc) but the story is actually a bit darker than what the trailers have shown. The battle system seems to be very proper and the game seems to be polished overall.
The trailers that were released to market the game...have focused too much on the pandering and idol aspect in a shallow way. They almost gave the illusion of a different type of game. As if it's all about that. I really think that worked against it. The game could have went much further with the pandering (based on what I've seen of the first 2 hours). There don't seem to be stupid mini-games about touching or jiggling or up close shots of assets. I think fans of JRPGs can handle the game's tone, they didn't go overboard with it.
They (Nintendo or Atlus) thought the game would sell more by marketing it exclusively to the otaku audience. Even though the game should have more to offer for RPG fans who are not turned off by a little bit of idolness and pandering with a proper game that demands everybody's attention.
Then I wachted the first 2 hours thanks to Gamexplain. I'm left being more positive and appreciate the quality of the game. Sure there are still upbeat moments, focus on idol and some fanservice pandering shots (a young looking character calling others brother and sister the whole time while sounding all cute, costumes/dresses etc) but the story is actually a bit darker than what the trailers have shown. The battle system seems to be very proper and the game seems to be polished overall.
The trailers that were released to market the game...have focused too much on the pandering and idol aspect in a shallow way. They almost gave the illusion of a different type of game. As if it's all about that. I really think that worked against it. The game could have went much further with the pandering (based on what I've seen of the first 2 hours). There don't seem to be stupid mini-games about touching or jiggling or up close shots of assets. I think fans of JRPGs can handle the game's tone, they didn't go overboard with it.
They (Nintendo or Atlus) thought the game would sell more by marketing it exclusively to the otaku audience. Even though the game should have more to offer for RPG fans who are not turned off by a little bit of idolness and pandering with a proper game that demands everybody's attention.
ShroudOfFate
Member
There's a lot more hatred of this game here than I thought possible.
I think the game looks absolutely amazing and I'm glad it is the way it is. I'm more excited for it than Persona 5
I think the game looks absolutely amazing and I'm glad it is the way it is. I'm more excited for it than Persona 5
Elaugaufein
Member
In P4s case it didn't though. Unless you're the type of person that needs a tutorial to select Attack from a menu. It was a battle with an enemy you could barely see, and couldn't hit in a battle environment that was basically pure fog , that lasted about 3 rounds. I can't remember if P3 was better , I think it may have at least introduced the weakness system.
But why ? How many otake games are there on the Wii U ? I mean pretty much everyone who doesn't mind some fanservice in their RPGs is already on the Vita. And a lot of those games are actually pretty solid and GAF has a tendency to wildly overstate fanservice* to begin with (I'm surprised that some GAF members can survive in a world where they may accidentally see 10 minutes of a PG rated soap opera which generally includes cutting away from implied sexual activity by minors at least once a season or the existence of beaches).
*Except for Dungeon Travellers 2. That game is actually even more fanservicy than GAF lead me to believe. It's probably the only game I own that I'd genuinely feel uncomfortable playing in public because I can see how it might make people uncomfortable. And I own pretty much all the Vita JRPG / DRPG games.
Judging by 2015 Nintendo, the only launch titles NX will have is just 4 Fire Emblem games.
I think Nintendo far over-estimates the popularity of the Fire Emblem franchise. Maybe it's more popular in Japan, but where I'm at literally no one has ever played/wants to play a fire emblem game. Id be so happy if we got another Advance Wars game, but nah, we'll just get FExWhateverJRPGispopularnow
They shouldn't spend resources marketing and localizing these games.
I think Nintendo far over-estimates the popularity of the Fire Emblem franchise. Maybe it's more popular in Japan, but where I'm at literally no one has ever played/wants to play a fire emblem game. Id be so happy if we got another Advance Wars game, but nah, we'll just get FExWhateverJRPGispopularnow
They shouldn't spend resources marketing and localizing these games.
TC McQueen
Member
Financially, kinda, culturally, no. Like most media in Japan, it appeals to specific demographics/niches and utterly fails outside of that.
There's more JRPGs out there than the Persona series, yo. My point stands tho cos they made a P3 anime, P3 movie, and two separate P4 anime.
SporeCrawler
Member
eh arent those idols shown in variety shows or stuff like kohaku? wouldnt say that its not huge. kohaku is a staple japanese mainstream media event
Yes.
Just look at these Japanese developers' tastes. Or their lists of favorite games and media. Even more hardcore developers don't shy away from more colorful things.
The guy who makes Berserk, a very dark and horror focused action manga, regularly takes breaks from making his series because he's too busy playing Idolmaster. Liking or making one thing doesn't automatically create a conflict of interest with another.
No, that would actually be cool.
Skimming through the thread, and amongst all the anger, I spotted that the Radiant Historia team is working on this.
Why isn't there more excitement? Radiant Historia is one of the finest RPGs ever made!
I don't care about the look, but the gameplay should be awesome
Why isn't there more excitement? Radiant Historia is one of the finest RPGs ever made!
I don't care about the look, but the gameplay should be awesome
TC McQueen
Member
Elaugaufein
Member
I know, but P3 and P4 are both by Atlus, so I was just pointing out its hardly an unexpected thing. And I can see why too, it's relatively easy to find an excuse to drop you into combat in a fantasy setting but it takes a bit more explanation as to why their are suddenly monsters in a world that's supposed to at least superficially resemble the modern one.
Sumio Mondo
Member
Nope, it's Idolmaster: the dungeon crawler instead.
RpgN
Junior Member
Idols are huge in Japan, but there is a bigger divide in audience. There are mainstream fans who enjoy the songs and there are the otaku who buy tons of copies of singles/albums, photo books, attend handshake events, support certain idols etc. Companies tend to market to otaku when it comes to merchandise. Some idols are also marketed specifically to otaku down to public appearance and music videos.
Idols being invited in shows comes down to idols that have become so huge in Japan. You are mainly talking about idols such as AKB48. For a while...they were the face of the jpop industry because they sold the most. It goes to show how the jpop industry is not as healthy as it used to be. Morning Musume '16 are dying to get invited in Kohaku, but they haven't for years.
People too caught up in 'dem otakus ruining mah gamez'
Idol otaku even have their own name (wota) and they're absolutely why idols are huge. They buy a lot of copies of one single release to increase their chance to meet the idols, they go to hand shake events, they buy merchandise to support their favourite girl, and they're the reason why idols are not allowed to have boyfriends. Sure, the mainstream public might or might not like their music on a single by single basis, but this strong idol fandom that actually makes these groups hugely profitable is not mainstream at all.
CarlieCaplin
Member
Spoiler-free 26-minute review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKMXJCjGApc
I'm interested. Usually not my type of game but the battle system etc. look interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKMXJCjGApc
I'm interested. Usually not my type of game but the battle system etc. look interesting.
RpgN
Junior Member
Are you asking why it has such a tone and why it's on the Wii U?
My guess is that...
A) Atlus got their way with the game. They designed it based on what they thought would bring success. They thought that everything would sell better when they add Persona elements that they think are the reasons why Persona became popular (high school setting and relationships) with idol tone. Nintendo agreed immediately because they also came to that conclusion based on the success of the past 2 Fire Emblem games. Nintendo might have also thought that by focusing on otaku more, they will gain more profit.
B) Nintendo wanted to have games to entice an audience that is usually on a different console and are not served by Nintendo. We have those games too, so get a Wii U!
The developers have already mentioned that following the original vision was far more difficult to execute than initially expected. Their decision after that was short sighted and risk averse.
I agree. Even though I am getting it I don't understand what Nintendo was thinking. This might've worked for a rhythm game like DAN, but the way they handled the marketing and development of this RPG is just odd. Bombing in Japan the way it has is all the proof you need of how poorly Nintendo has done in communicating to any audience about this game.
Elaugaufein
Member
Not even that. I'm pretty confident this game would have moved respectable numbers (for a non-Person/mainline SMT Atlus game) on either the 3DS or Vita , especially if they'd never done the initial SMT x FE clip art announcement.
Despite what some people are saying, this games tone isn't wildly different to Persona 4. P3 was more obviously consistently dark and it looks like Persona 5 is going that way too, which is probably why they went with the softer/brighter aesthetics for this. And Rise's entire thing in P4 from her dungeon to her Social Links was about the problems and expectations of the idol industry, so it's not like Atlus has never touched on that before.
It otherwise looks like a pretty mechanically solid Atlus JRPG.
There's nothing about it that would indicate it'd be an automatic bomb.
I think everyone agrees on that. Especially on the latter point. That point is pretty key even here in my own argument honestly.
Elaugaufein said:
Yes it does fit in very well with P4, it could've even been another sequel after DAN tbh. But I think if Nintendo handled the way they revealed and rerevealed this even just a little bit better the game might've done better, even on Wii U. The way they sprung the actual product on everyone just left a lot of people puzzled.
It probably would've done much better on a handheld. But man, I'm glad its on a console, the visuals just look so good.
AcademicSaucer
Member
I was expecting permadeath against dick monster demons and killing God with aether when they announced it. Idk if that would have sell more tho, its on Wii U after all.
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