Wow... of 344,000 applicants, almost 70% were men.
Germany: Merkel disgust at New Year gang assaults
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Wow... of 344,000 applicants, almost 70% were men.
ClosingADoor
Member
Since we are basically forcing people to walk over a continent, young men are most able to make the trip. Which is a problem. Countries like the UK take families directly from the refugee camps to their country. Canada and the US do the same. Which is a better solution, since then you don't split up families, provide a safe journey and probably prevent problems in the future because of that.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
It's not made up shit if you are unable to make those fake refugees leave.
Baron Doggystyle von Woof
Member
If it's true that a lot of immigrants are behind this: what the hell are you guys doing?! You are guest stop behaving like animals.
Also stop embarrassing other immigrants, idiots. (said by the son of a Turkish immigrant).
Also stop embarrassing other immigrants, idiots. (said by the son of a Turkish immigrant).
QuicheFontaine
Member
Some people seem to think the story ends at "their application was rejected".
These migrants walked from Turkey. They're not going anywhere.
While you can honestly tell me that you, in a noisy and packed crowd, would instantly know that this is going on when you're separated from the event by several people and distracted by the celebrations? I'm not claiming that there weren't groups of men in the crowd committing these despicable crimes, I'm saying it's a stretch to blame the entire crowd for the crime without some proof that they all were in on it. Which the police agrees with.
If you ask me, trying to do so just looks like an attempt at reviving the 1000 strong marauding horde narrative because it sounds way more intimidating than a few dozen despicable individuals who used the crowd for cover in their crimes.
The ones walking from Turkey are typically getting their applications approved, the ones from the Balkans are being rejected. Sure they might stay, but only illegally, with no right to work or welfare.
ClosingADoor
Member
Sure, it wasn't all 1000 people there. But a few dozen among a thousand is still a pretty large number to me. And it is scary that groups of people are doing this. If it is just a few individuals, it wouldn't be as bad. But if you have a few dozen men harassing women and clearly setting out to do that, there is a big problem.
Prime crotch
Banned
I don't think most people aren't ready to acknowledge just how much shitty conditions leads to this sort of behaviour, and just going "they should behave properly" is missing the point of what created this messed up situation in the first place.
Will all due respect shut up. I don't care about their conditions, there's no excuse for it.
http://www.news.com.au/world/europe...e/news-story/8bcb3bd23a3658503c849971af9f0c1d
Yeah, I'm blaming the entire crowd standing around them, ignoring the screams and the fighting.
ClosingADoor
Member
What are the conditions that lead to this then? Because I don't see any excuse or reason. Assault and theft are not things you can get away with because of a different culture, background or views on society.
Prime crotch
Banned
Not excusing these behaviours, but going "THEY SHOULDN'T DO IT!" is a tad myopic.
If these are the group that are being purported to be, it's the same conditions that lead to similar behaviours from other communities, a bunch of poor young kids who group up due to not seeing a viable way out and lash out.
Again, we should and must reprehend these behaviours, but I don't see how they could come as any surprise.
Moff
Member
it's the bystander effect, the more people around you, the smaller the chance anyone helps you. I don't think we can assume that all 1000 were in favour of these assaults, even if they decide to not testify to the police. most probably just try to stay out of trouble.
then we punish them according to the law, just like anyone else.
QuicheFontaine
Member
That's a new one. We've had cultural difference, poor education, provocative women...I'll just stick "shitty conditions" and "messed up situation" on the list too. Anything to absolve the perpetrators of responsibility.
You say that, but you didn't do any reprehending. Your first post in the thread was just to downplay the responsibility of the perpetrators.
ClosingADoor
Member
Being poor and young does not excuse you to do crimes like this. That is not a reason. This is not some shoplifting or "lashing out". This is a serious crime with victims who will now feel unsafe for years to come and maybe forever.
Prime crotch
Banned
Yes, I didn't do any reprehending, which isn't the same as absolving anyone.
By pointing out certain conditions that lead to these sort of behaviours is not me excusing the criminals.
Endorphineforeverybody
Member
What a viable way out? What are you talking about, out of poverty? By sexual harassment? What? Over 100 incidents, 75 percent with
sexual harassment.
Tell me these conditions?
Are they poor kids, if it's your girlfriend?
There is no excuse for this and these people should be punished as hard as possible.
And we should not talk around, we all know where this disrespectful behavior towards women come from.
Gonna need a source before you throw around stuff like that.
ClosingADoor
Member
It feels like downplaying it, as if there are reasons for them to do this. There are not.
BBC is reporting it http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35231046
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Stealing is not evil. People can be forced to steal if their family is starving. Sexual molestation and rape though? Thats something else entirely. And if someone handwaves the perpetrators actions as being from from a different culture then i suggest everyone buckle up because theres going to be big problems.
Prime crotch
Banned
I think that's being dismissive of what lead to it, I'm not downplaying it by simply not showing outrage in a public forum, if that's how it appears, well then that's my fault for not communicating well. There are 'reasons' just not sound ones.
Endorphineforeverybody
Member
So to get this story straight it's not about stealing it never was :
Unterdessen melden sich immer mehr Opfer bei der Kölner Polizei. Mittlerweile seien mehr als 100 Anzeigen eingegangen, sagte eine Sprecherin am Mittwoch. Davon hätten drei Viertel einen sexuellen Hintergrund.
Over 100 incidents, 75 percent with sexual background.
Unterdessen melden sich immer mehr Opfer bei der Kölner Polizei. Mittlerweile seien mehr als 100 Anzeigen eingegangen, sagte eine Sprecherin am Mittwoch. Davon hätten drei Viertel einen sexuellen Hintergrund.
Over 100 incidents, 75 percent with sexual background.
DragonSworne
Banned
Does Syria have a high degree of sexual assualt compared to other countries?
ClosingADoor
Member
I don't see what lead to it that is something that we can do about. Young and poor is not a reason. And if the reasons are not good ones like you say, why should we care about it.
It has not been shown that these are Syrian refugees. The only thing we know is Northern African or Arabic looking, and according to some police officers unable to speak German. Some people showed them asylum papers, but those were not from the current refugee wave from Syria but about two years back if those reports are accurate.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Absolutely disgusting. Anyone who is in actuality a refugee among the perpetrators should be immediately deported.
SolidusDave
Member
Are you sure that's not a mix up and they mean 3/4 were NOT with a sexual background?
On Monday the numbers were 60 incidents of which 15 cases were about sexual assault. It can't jump to 75 unless the two reports use a different definition.
Skellig Gra
Member
So being poor makes you a gang rapist?
Source: http://www.dw.com/de/kölner-polizeichef-albers-lehnt-rücktritt-ab/a-18962888
Apparently it might also be difficult to find evidence which could make convictions unlikely
ClosingADoor
Member
According to what I read now, women told police offers in later talks when discussing the charges they were also groped, so that has been added.
Endorphineforeverybody
Member
Don't know if your first language is German but here you go..http://orf.at/m/stories/2317567/2317569/
It's not clear exactly who the perpetrators were, and if you check out the stats posted earlier, not even a third of asylum seeker applicants in Germany were Syrian.
This is unfortunately the sad reality for Syrian asylum seekers - they're getting lumped in with a whole bunch of migrants who aren't escaping warzones and probably don't appreciate their adopted home as much as somebody who is.
SolidusDave
Member
Thanks, that makes sense now. Makes it worse though. Also doesn't exactly make their police work shine which was very weird throughout the whole incident. I hope this also doesn't include individual reports of girls who said the police didn't take their sexual assault complains seriously.
And yeah, as I mentioned before, it's very unlikely they will be able to identify any good number of these criminals.
DragonSworne
Banned
Instead of deflecting, can you answer the question? I'll broaden the country of origin if that makes you feel better.
Do the countries that the asylum seekers come from have a higher degree of sexual assault compared to other countries?
AstroZombie
Banned
EU countries would be wise to set a zero tolerance policy and ship the shitheads back.
ClosingADoor
Member
At the moment there is a lot of assault and rape there with a war going on. Before that, no clue.
Prime crotch
Banned
There's no good reason for any crime, but not understanding it won't prevent them. Punishment only goes half way.
waveuponwave
Member
It's both connected though. It seems some groups used sexual assault as a ruse to distract their victims while they robbed them.
On New Year's eve it was the most extreme yet, but according to the police these robberies have been going one for a while, and groping people to distract them is a known tactic
Endorphineforeverybody
Member
Like mentioned in the article, that's the arguing between the head of the police union and the home secretary. It seems like the police, who should be there, were at the boarder in Bayern.
Miles Quaritch
Member
I'd generally argue a similar position, but what conditions led to these men raping and sexually assaulting girls and women?
This is wanton abuse by people who see the people they are raping and assaulting as inferior.
ClosingADoor
Member
I do think a large part of the issue is the lack of punishment. I brought this up in an earlier thread, about how these crimes (assault on the street, theft) are not being punished accordingly and even if people are caught they are free on the streets pretty quickly.
Presenting an incredibly simplistic and flawed explanation (youth + poverty = rape) isn't "understanding".
Miles Quaritch
Member
This is uncalled for.
Endorphineforeverybody
Member
It is yes, known as "antanzen" but between this and making a circle around the victims and than touch them is a wide gap in my book.
Nobody is deflecting or trying to "feel better", you asked about Syrians specifically when all we know is they were of "Arab or North African appearance" and Syrians don't even make up a third of current Asylum seekers, let alone the previous wave.
Understand the crisis better and you might be able to ask the more appropriate question the first time around.
Absolutely disgusting. Reminds me of the attacks on the reporter in Egypt some time ago. Don't really want to believe that this can happen in EU.
We can't, which is the big problem. You can't send asylum seekers back if there's a reasonable chance they'll get killed, not to mention that a bunch of them "lose" their papers during the trip. We can't just dump them on some other country, they are well within their rights to refuse them entry.
We can't, which is the big problem. You can't send asylum seekers back if there's a reasonable chance they'll get killed, not to mention that a bunch of them "lose" their papers during the trip. We can't just dump them on some other country, they are well within their rights to refuse them entry.
YourMaster
Member
With many European countries having a conviction rate of below 5%, that won't do. What will be a lot more effective is not to combine different goals.
Germany has a very low birth rate, and Merkel thinks having refugees will stop population decline. This is true, but causes more problems than it solves as they don't bring in the kind of people they need. The surge in crime and unemployment costs will sway the populace against refugees. It also attracts many immigrants from peaceful countries.
All this makes helping refugees from war more difficult.
The solution is to accept refugees from war, while making it completely clear that non of them will ever be allowed to stay in Germany when the war is over. In the meantime do not mix them with the general population but instead build migrant cities where they have to stay during their shelter, while providing them with food, shelter, medicine and other basics where needed.
People who misbehave during their stay there and pray on fellow refugees need to be deported or locked up for the remainder of the war in Syria.
Population decline can be prevented by domestic measures and by allowing migration of people who can contribute, for example educated people from Asia and South America.
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