Support NeoGAF

[Nafai1123]

*sigh*. So producing a 4K digital print from 35mm is totes free, but patching VR support into an old game is impossible.

Content exists. Already. A good amount between hacked in support, engine ports, officially patched in support and stuff made for VR in the first place. Well beyond what you'd expect from a console at launch, anyways.


It depends on the game. I'm sure Codemasters spent less adding VR support to Dirt Rally than it cost to post convert Star Wars.

Oh, I'm well aware that VR support has been patched into many games. I'm also aware that patching VR support into existing games doesn't work that great in many cases (obviously depends on the genre). I don't think that patched in VR support is going to be what drives adoption, new experiences will. Shit that people have never seen before that makes them go "holy shit I need this," not "wow playing HL2 in VR is pretty cool."

That said, I don't disagree with you on the amount of content that will be available at launch, merely pointing out that without adoption the incentive to create new content by developers could be a challenge.

 

[Beefy]

I don't know for certain the situation with shipping, but when I ordered the page was Oculus Ireland. Being in the UK, could it be that Oculus will be importing to Ireland amd then using that as their base to ship within the EU?

I really hope I don't get stung for VAT or import duty on an already expensive product.

You do realise they are probably using Ireland to avoid tax?

 

[plagiarize]

Here's the thing

4k isn't really much of an annoyance from the content side. You start with a master copy, and this time you just produce a 4k and a 1080p version, minor work to make sure each is fine, but realistically, nothing too crazy.

VR gaming is different. Oculus is asking developers to put significant investment, development time and resources into producing a version of their game that is compatible with the Oculus Rift VR headset. Baring in mind there isn't some sort of open standards for VR to develop towards, you've got to develop to the implementation of the technology. If you don't test well, you'll probably fuck up and make people feel like shit if there's visual glitches. So let's just sum this up:

Luckey is asking developers to put significant investment, time and testing into an already niche product that costs from $600 upwards if you don't live in America, that already requires a $1000 PC to run at some ok standard.

Do you perhaps understand why this is a really shit idea?

So many people who are experts at how much camera equipment and movie post production costs and who know all about developing games for VR. Making a game specifically for VR is about as complex as knowing what to avoid. You can find loads of great resources on this online, many that Oculus put together themselves.

For many projects it is as simple as choosing an engine that already supports VR and making sure your interface is VR friendly.

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

Went to my Oculus account curious if my KS unit had been added as an order, no dice but I found a free TF2 hat in there lol.

 

[Venfayth]

If you have an account just sign in and go to order history

https://shop.oculus.com/en-us/history/

Busted. Doesn't show me all of the pertinent order information such as when I will receive my device, or even how much I'll be paying after shipping and tax.

 

[And_Gignac]

Theres a $2000+ USD barrier for this premium experience. Developers wont even care about fostering an environment there.

 

[KHarvey16]

Theres a $2000+ USD barrier for this premium experience. Developers wont even care about fostering an environment there.

$1499 all in to start.

 

[Adam_Roman]

Yes because the price will remain fixed for eternity

They're sure as hell not gonna do a price drop 3 months out of the gate. If the Vive ships for $450-$500, it'll destroy.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Altering a game engine to output another render output is far cheaper than 3d post-conversion.

There's a lot more to it.

For game content

Significant amount of optimization has to be done in order to maintain the high frame rates.

The cameras have to reworked completely depending on the game. Same with controls.

Video content has to be recorded with actual 360 cameras unless you spend a lot of time in post.

It's expensive and time consuming and not everyone knows how to do it right.

 

[Peltz]

Preorders seem to be moving briskly so I'm not sure why they would need to drop the price, but I'm sure they are concerned that a GAF thread has taken a negative tone. That almost never happens.

Underrated post.

 

[Felix Lighter]

If you have an account just sign in and go to order history

https://shop.oculus.com/en-us/history/

I don't have an account. I made the order as a guest. I'm able to see the order in order history by supplying my order number, which I luckily saved and my email address. They send me a email to check the status immediately and I can see all the details are correct, name, address, card, except no price or total information. Still no confirmation email though.

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

Theres a $2000+ USD barrier for this premium experience. Developers wont even care about fostering an environment there.

I foresee ample porting between pc vr and psvr. I think the library will look fine six months to a year post release.

 

[artsi]

That's what I'm saying, that according to that tweet customs duty is not included and only the VAT tax is. Unless, the tweet has been a misunderstanding.

If Oculus ships from Ireland, they have paid their customs (if Ireland has any) but end customers don't have to pay anything extra.

If the package comes from Ireland no customs official in EU will stop it, it's free to move.

 

[Venfayth]

I don't have an account. I made the order as a guest. I'm able to see the order in order history by supplying my order number, which I luckily saved and my email address. They send me a email to check the status immediately and I can see all the details are correct, name, address, card, except no price or total information. Still no confirmation email though.

Same situation as me. Hopefully the support ticket clears things up.

 

[Aselith]

Oh, I'm well aware that VR support has been patched into many games. I'm also aware that patching VR support into existing games doesn't work that great in many cases (obviously depends on the genre). I don't think that patched in VR support is going to be what drives adoption, new experiences will. Shit that people have never seen before that makes them go "holy shit I need this," not "wow playing HL2 in VR is pretty cool."

That said, I don't disagree with you on the amount of content that will be available at launch, merely pointing out that without adoption the incentive to create new content by developers could be a challenge.

Well no crap but having content available through patched in support gives people a little bit more to do with it and a little more reason to justify the cost.

 

[Moon_frogger]

so are we willing to admit that at best this is a highly niche piece of tech that probably won't even be mass market for at least several years, let alone the 'future' of gaming?

 

[Steel]

Oh, I'm well aware that VR support has been patched into many games. I'm also aware that patching VR support into existing games doesn't work that great in many cases (obviously depends on the genre). I don't think that patched in VR support is going to be what drives adoption, new experiences will. Shit that people have never seen before that makes them go "holy shit I need this," not "wow playing HL2 in VR is pretty cool."

That said, I don't disagree with you on the amount of content that will be available at launch, merely pointing out that without adoption the incentive to create new content by developers could be a challenge.

Why did people adopt DVD's over VHS when VHS showed you the same content at a cheaper price(plus you could record over it!)? I mean, why would people go "Holy shit I need this" and not "wow viewing this movie in a higher resolution is cool"?

 

[plagiarize]

Oh, I'm well aware that VR support has been patched into many games. I'm also aware that patching VR support into existing games doesn't work that great in many cases (obviously depends on the genre). I don't think that patched in VR support is going to be what drives adoption, new experiences will. Shit that people have never seen before that makes them go "holy shit I need this," not "wow playing HL2 in VR is pretty cool."

That said, I don't disagree with you on the amount of content that will be available at launch, merely pointing out that without adoption the incentive to create new content by developers could be a challenge.

I'll start worrying about adoption when sales fall back *below* what Oculus were predicting.

And playing HL2 in VR is amazing, not pretty cool

As we have the current trend of remasters, there is going to be a lot of people calling for specific old games to come out in VR versions, because it makes for a totally new experience.

When I replayed HL2 in VR, I knew everything that was going to happen, but I couldn't predict what moments were really going to stand out in VR, nor how different an experience it was.

 

[FyreWulff]

The same companies that won't even port Wii U titles because they don't want to deal with the second controller? Or the ones that didn't support Kinect despite the fact that there more than a few out there?

How bout this...what's cheaper adding 3D in post or making a game VR compatible?

just changing a game to output two renders is the cheapest and best. You already have the depth information for 3D games right there, fully automated perfect post conversion technology is something you'd be doing 40 years from now.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

They're sure as hell not gonna do a price drop 3 months out of the gate. If the Vive ships for $450-$500, it'll destroy.

No high priced consumer product is gonna "destroy". Do you REALLY think that a considerable amount of ps4 owners will spend 400USD on PS VR?


They might outsell the OR and vive, sure. But be real. VR is not becoming mainstream for MANY MANY years. Nobody is destroying anything for a long ass time.

 

[Zafir]

That's what I'm saying, that according to that tweet customs duty is not included and only the VAT tax is. Unless, the tweet has been a misunderstanding.

I honestly think he just misunderstood the entire thing. Went straight for a passive aggressive response instead of clarifying the situation.

If you go onto the american version of the site, it specifically says shipping and tax isn't included in the price. The UK version only says shipping isn't included in the price. More over, the DK's were shipped from within Europe, so I doubt they'd suddenly change their distribution method to something even more backwards for the commercial release.

 

[oti]

I foresee ample porting between pc vr and psvr. I think the library will look fine six months to a year post release.

Other than Sony they'll port the living Suvlaki out of their VR games.

 

[P44]

* DING DING DING* You got it right. High price and can't find it anywhere? People want the HELL out of it. Low price and no availability? It must be a piece of garbage.

"low price"

"$350"

Look I don't know what universe you lads live in, but the original discussed price of around $300 was fine. The dev kit prices were fine, and that's what the expected prices were to be honest, and in the UK at least, that meant the dev kit was as much as a PS4. Premium enough with regards to pricing, surely?

On top of that, the vive whilst being more expensive backs the entire image up better, with the 3D sensor hardware for the room and motion controllers included - it seems like a complete kit. What's premium about a bundled Xbox controller?

On top of that, the iPod wasn't some far fetched concept - people could understand from advertisements, yeah that's useful, portable music. VR is not that. VR is something people will have to try, to want, on a mass market level. So what use is it to start it so out of mass market range? $350 was a very very solid pricepoint IMO, and the move away from it is a misstep. PSVR is going about this the right way.

 

[Peltz]

so are we willing to admit that at best this is a highly niche piece of tech that probably won't even be mass market for at least several years, let alone the 'future' of gaming?

Nobody has ever said otherwise.

 

[KHarvey16]

so are we willing to admit that at best this is a highly niche piece of tech that probably won't even be mass market for at least several years, let alone the 'future' of gaming?

How would not being mass market for a few years mean it can't be the future of gaming (whatever that means)? Future sort of implies, like, later.

 

[BizzyBum]

Pre-ordered without hesitation. Thing coulda been $1,999.99 and I still woulda pre-ordered.

 

[blastprocessor]

Study finds 63% of Americans are <1 Oculus Rift away from financial ruin

apologies if posted, but that me laugh.

 

[Ferrio]

$1499 all in to start.

I keep seeing this thrown around, sounds like bullshit.

The cheapest prebuilt ready machine is $999, that alone pushes it over that price. Nor can I find anywhere that you can actually buy these yet, so even that's a estimation.

 

[BrettWeir]

Pre-ordered without hesitation. Thing coulda been $1,999.99 and I still woulda pre-ordered.

/high five!

 

[commish]

so are we willing to admit that at best this is a highly niche piece of tech that probably won't even be mass market for at least several years, let alone the 'future' of gaming?

Each time I see "mass market", a little bit of me dies inside. You people are acting like they are expecting DVD level of success the first year.

 

[TheFatOne]

Can someone give me a link to this 1500$ system that Palmer Luckey refers to.

 

[KHarvey16]

I keep seeing this thrown around, sounds like bullshit.

The cheapest prebuilt ready machine is $999, that alone pushes it over that price.

They'll be available for purchase from Oculus as a bundle.

 

[Adam_Roman]

No high priced consumer product is gonna "destroy". Do you REALLY think that a considerable amount of ps4 owners will spend 400USD on PS VR?


They might outsell the OR and vive, sure. But be real. VR is not becoming mainstream for MANY MANY years. Nobody is destroying anything for a long ass time.

I meant comparatively destroy. $600 was considered insane for a console. You really think people will be chomping at the bit to spend that on a peripheral for $1000+ PCs?

 

[Doc Holliday]

How would not being mass market for a few years mean it can't be the future of gaming (whatever that means)? Future sort of implies, like, later.

Wasn't the whole idea that the he rift bring VR to the masses? I was skeptical after owning dk2 but that was the whole point of oculus, and specially the Rift.

 

[plagiarize]

There's a lot more to it.

For game content

Significant amount of optimization has to be done in order to maintain the high frame rates.

The cameras have to reworked completely depending on the game. Same with controls.

Video content has to be recorded with actual 360 cameras unless you spend a lot of time in post.

It's expensive and time consuming and not everyone knows how to do it right.

I'm making a simple VR indie game on my own time and am far from a genius. I have a *very* good handle on how time consuming implementing VR is on suitable engine (not very) and how difficult it is to research and test to ensure that you're doing things right (not very).

I've seen basic hacked in support and personally I don't like it. I've seen basic patched in support (ala HL2 which still needs some interface changes before I'd call it consumer ready... but not many). I've seen engine ports some of which work really well. I've seen games that accidentally turned on the VR support in UE4 and am completely familiar with the sort of stuff that needs special attention. I've seen WIP VR support in numerous titles.

You're over stating how hard it is.

 

[Luq]

I'm holding up for now. Exptected it to be much cheaper... it costs almost 750 euros with shipment to Poland.

Keeping my fingers crossed fot HTC Vive and Morpheus to be at least a bit more affordable... or at least coming in better bundles.

 

[Admiral Snackbar]

Wasn't the whole idea that the he rift bring VR to the masses? I was skeptical after owning dk2 but that was the whole point of oculus, and specially the Rift.

Sure. This is step one.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

I meant comparatively destroy. $600 was considered insane for a console. You really think people will be chomping at the bit to spend that on a peripheral for $1000+ PCs?

Definitely not. But I took your wording very literal. Because no VR is going to have anyone chomping at the bit to buy. Including PS VR. All VR will be niche for a very long time.

 

[dEvAnGeL]

People that were expecting this lowet than $500 were dreaming, i will eat crow is psvr is $400

 

[P44]

It's not all about games. VR cameras are a thing.

I'm not saying it's not a thing, but it's a very small thing at this point.

 

[Aselith]

so are we willing to admit that at best this is a highly niche piece of tech that probably won't even be mass market for at least several years, let alone the 'future' of gaming?

Moon_frogger circa 1998: "So are we willing to admit that HDTV is a highly niche piece of tech that probably won't even be mass market for at least several years, let alone the 'future' of television and movies?"

We just don't know yet. It may take the market by storm when it hits mass market price or it may be a nonstarter.

 

[Hawk269]

"Checks compatibility"

Even my USB ports aren't compatible! WTF?

Also high minimum specs and ridiculous price insure this will stay a very niche product.

Yeah, my USB 3.0 ports are also failing the test. I get a "ASMEDIA 3.0 not compatible" as the reason, my I7-3930k OC to 4.8 also failed, but I know that has to be some error. I know people are saying if you score more than 9,000 on Firestrike 3.0 in 3dmark that you should be good. I scored 28,500, so I triple the 9,000. My worry is the is the 3.0 ports. When my test failed, the linked to a pci express usb 3.0 card that was only $30.00 so if it does not work I can always get one of those, but all my other 3.0 usb devices work fine, so I think it should be fine with the Rift.

 

[spannicus]

Neogaf is full of wealthy ballers. Dont believe me, check out the show your game set up thread haha.

 

[Stimpack]

4K tvs officially doomed because the first ones were tens of thousands of dollars (with little to no available 4K content)

You can't be serious with that comparison.

 

[plagiarize]

I meant comparatively destroy. $600 was considered insane for a console. You really think people will be chomping at the bit to spend that on a peripheral for $1000+ PCs?

Do people buy extra $600 dollar graphics cards for diminishing performance returns? This was never meant to be the moment VR went mainstream. A circa four figure PC is the entry requirement. We've known that for months.

 

[Randdalf]

Just pre-ordered #hype

 

[Doc Holliday]

Ps we can love VR and plan to buy the rift and still bitch about the price

 

[labx]

well this brings me memories of an E3 and SONY. Except that this isn't a console, and now cost almost twice a console. So I'm guessing that there is not going to be a ps5 in a lot of years is PSVR have a price that equals the actual console.

 

[Exile20]

I'm holding up for now. Exptected it to be much cheaper... it costs almost 750 euros with shipment to Poland.

Keeping my fingers crossed fot HTC Vive and Morpheus to be at least a bit more affordable... or at least coming in better bundles.

Vive is not going to be cheaper and PSVR is probably going to be $500, at lowest $400.

 

[metareferential]

Neogaf is full of wealthy ballers.

Price is high, but it's way less than many other devices that are much more popular.