mentallyinept
Banned
Going a little bit up on the boob makes everything better IMO (quick half assed photoshop edit)
It's night and day.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Koji Igarashi Kickstarts Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night (2.5D, backdash, 2018)
- Thread starter PranooY
- Start date
It's night and day.
NoctisVsStar
Member
This is nonsense let the artist create whether it be small or big boobs let them be.. At the end of the day boobs are wonderful.
Personally I'm just tired of having this same discussion come up for nearly every game.given that IMO this was already beating a dead horse even years ago.
You don't seem to take criticism of your criticism very well.
You don't seem to take criticism of your criticism very well.
I wouldn't mind if they saved some of that life for hometown in future characters, though
We're pretty lively with Miriam already.
Yes, you are 100% correct.
Though some do use their influence to call the artist a teenager, and his fans lolicons if they decide not to change their art. I love jschreier's work, really, but this was the biggest bullshit. He did correct himself, but still in a "well, forgive me if I'm not a pedophile like you guys who know exactly what lolicon means" way. Oh, and I also hate the way vanillaware games look. Their art is terrible and their animation is garbage (sorry, vanillaware fans, you know it is, deep inside).
But it's still not censorship at all, and I hate when people use that word so freely, but let's not pretend everyone is so civil about it and it dies the moment the artist makes his decision on whether or not to listen to the criticism.
I used to believe everyone saying "we don't want to take boobs away, we just want more variety!", until people started giving Capcom the "what the fuck, Crapcom, it's 2015, change this filth" comments for the reveal of a returning character. It definitely didn't sound like someone not wanting to take it away.
I do agree Mika's design is garbage, though, and I also hoped they would change it with SF V. Oh well, we can hope for better alts!
Obviously, it also goes the other way around. Capcom decides to change Mika's animation? They couldn't possibly just agree with the criticism and change it on their own, it's obviously censorship, imposed by the evil SJWs, even though Mika is still running around dressed in the same way, hitting people with her ass, and Cammy is still giving the camera the most detailed ass shots I've ever seen in a videogame. Evil bastards, forcing these poor, defenseless companies, to comply with their made up issues.
This is me joking, by the way, in case it wasn't clear enough that I don't agree with this stance at all.
This is too distracting to me. Not a fan unless it's for this kind of stuff. Valkyrie Drive is the anime where they suck nipples all the time, right? There it's obviously appropriate
I'm actually looking forward to seeing the new shaders applied to the environments over the next week, one of the dislikes I fedback with the first two was how bright the 'frame' of the room looked (the walls around the outside of the room. It kindof took my focus away from what is going on inside of the room.
Really like the new shader on Miriam. I can understand the breast bothery tho
Really like the new shader on Miriam. I can understand the breast bothery tho
Serenade_King
Banned
I guess people would hate it because "more fanservice" but I think they should get rid of the cloth flap over her right breast. It just looks tacked on, for the asymmetry the flower and uncovered left shoulder should be enough. Aside from that the model is looking good, hope the animations are too.
If I'm not mistaken I can still donate to get the physical game, right? How long do I have to decide if I want it? I haven't played many Castlevania games but remember liking the GBA one with the white haired guy but with so many games releasing on the first half of 2016 I might not have much money to spend right away.
If I'm not mistaken I can still donate to get the physical game, right? How long do I have to decide if I want it? I haven't played many Castlevania games but remember liking the GBA one with the white haired guy but with so many games releasing on the first half of 2016 I might not have much money to spend right away.
This is too distracting to me. Not a fan unless it's for this kind of stuff. Valkyrie Drive is the anime where they suck nipples all the time, right? There it's obviously appropriate
Yeah, I get where you're coming from. I don't think story is ever really the focus for an Igavania, so I wasn't really thinking from that perspective but you know what? You're probably right, it wouldn't fit. Especially if they're going hard in on the narrative aspect (and judging from the kickstarter info, they've got somewhat of an indepth story.)
That being said, seeing this design instantly makes me think of having it being animated like that. It might not be what the Bloodstained team actually wants for the character model, in that case.
NoctisVsStar
Member
You're 100 percent right although I feel an Incoming kotaku article.
MekaDragon
Member
Going a little bit up on the boob makes everything better IMO (quick half assed photoshop edit)
So much better with so little change...
Yes I think you can still grab it via the Fangamer site -- I've just been looking again as I'm tempted to upgrade for the artbook. Not sure how long is left though.
It'll never stop until all women fit a universally inoffensive mold, and are almost completely covered up. Until then, it's outrage, outrage, outrage!!
I agree with this, there's way too much asymmetry, and they actually toned it down, by putting the shoulder things on both sides.
It also probably has to do with me being too attached to a character I know nearly nothing about. There's a considerable chance she'll be your generic "badass woman" character, because why wouldn't she, right? But that would already make me disappointed, just because I'm so attached to the character that I want her to be better developed, even if narrative isn't a focus at all. I kinda expect her not to be a generic badass dude but only a girl, but instead someone who is kind and really cares about the ones close to her, but also gets serious when it's time to kick ass.
Which is why I always think of her with Vicar Amelia's voice, it would fit this kind of character archetype perfectly (I probably said this a million times already, sorry).
So yeah, I'm definitely too attached to the point where I'm seeings things where I shouldn't be.
Serenade_King
Banned
I feel the same way, it feels like every thread that even mentions a female character in a video game turns into a discussion that is the same every time. :S
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Yup I said this in a few other threads before. A thread could be about say how tough the final boss of something is then somehow it will get transformed into talking about how the last boss is too sexy and why that makes it a bad game.
Complaining about it is pretty much derailing in and of itself though as well
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Wow, you sound pretty outraged about all the outrage.
And it's the same people every single time that show up! Then the thread absolutely spirals in a derail opposite of the original discussion. What Q said.
The way these conversations tend to go is "thing I don't like that other people may like" = PANDERING. I feel the word "pandering" is approaching flanderization. Anyway, based on everything I've read/watched/seen about this game I feel IGA has gone to great lengths to justify his design decisions here and I feel its reductive to call it pandering. I also think calling it "hypersexualization" or DOA is just straight hyperbole. To my understanding, we know:
-The crystal curse is a major component of the narrative and Miriam's character design
-The crystal curse is a source of magic power and exposed potions of it can be use as a conduit for magic (see that official art with Miriam summoning ghosts with the curse mark on her back)
-The curse is encroaching on her heart. Since the heart is center-left in the thorax and the majority of heart tissue is found in the left ventricle, it makes sense of the curse mark to be over her left breast as opposed to say way up near her clavicle (if they care about being kind of accurate - I have no idea if they do)
-This is a well IGA has mined before with Shanoa who wore a backless outfit specifically because of the glyph system of that game. (Fun fact: Shanoa's design was based in part on his wife)
-They went on record saying that Miriam's original design was "sexier" but they reigned it in for the final design. What does "sexier" mean? I dunno because nobody outside the dev team has seen it. Maybe the original design was way over the line or maybe it was actually fine and they were being paranoid. I don't know. Those aren't the actions the actions of someone who only cares about horny teenage boys or whatever the stereotype of those who choose to pander are.
I think people are fine to criticize - its their right and I don't think anyone is being an super asshole about it. I personally just disagree, sometimes strongly, with many of those arguments and I think a few people are engaging in hyperbole. Other than that, hugs and kisses <3
Pitch Black Flint
Member
Obviously Miriam had her left nipple removed to provide more real estate for that stained-glass tattoo. The low bust line is to show it off, while the cloth over her right shoulder is there to cover her remaining nipple. You guys are putting way too much thought into this.
charlequin
Banned
That's gonna be a little rough for you given that this discussion is going to keep happening for every game with titty art, then.
Well, in his case I can understand his position. Being a porn artist probably means he is especially sensitive to people criticizing sexualized designs.
That being said,
Seriously though, I think you're putting too much stock into internet comments. People say shit all the time, especially stuff they probably wouldn't say out loud, regarding their personal opinions on things. It's a vanishingly small minority of people who will scream at your face in real life that something you created is 'too sexualized.'
People pour out the things on their mind all the damn time on the internet, and it's really not anyone's business to say they shouldn't talk about it anymore unless they're, like, promoting hate speech or something. Of course, this goes the other way, too - people are allowed to say how annoying they find it, as well.
Also, I can see it from their point of view - I can understand being annoyed by the inundation of super sexual caricatures of women. In the end, though, it's not like shouting this stuff at artists will necessarily do anything - as I said before, it's a suggestion for people to take into account; no matter how incensed the commenter is, it's not a law.
My complain is that her exposed breast looks weird and nipple-less. I know it's futile to argue that it'd be cool to have -some- female characters that aren't designed to be waifus, that's interpreted as a personal attack by some people - but jeez, make her massive breasts not look nonsensical at the very least. How is that outrage? How is that unreasonable at all?
Also, leave Shanoa out of this, she's a superb design! (Because digital women can be good looking and keep some semblance of proper anatomy)
Also, leave Shanoa out of this, she's a superb design! (Because digital women can be good looking and keep some semblance of proper anatomy)
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
It's true that Quiet absorbs rain-food through her boob pores, and yet...
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
No offense but you yourself can be almost as bad at times, brick wall vs brick wall conversations never go anywhere. Gotta learn to say your piece identify who is stubborn in arguments and not willing to actually talk about what you are talking about / think from a different perspective, and just drop the convo completely.
Proper discussions take many viewpoints into account and both sides need to be able to do that
it's fine in this thread but should it happen in the example I gave above
Oh I don't deny that, I've been part of those conversations many times and now just trying to drop it period. But it's so rampant on here.
Let me know when Miriam looks, acts, is treated by the camera in the same way, etc. as Quiet and I'll concede you have a point. (Not trying to be rude, I just think this comparison is weak).
FF Seraphim
Member
Going a little bit up on the boob makes everything better IMO (quick half assed photoshop edit)
I can go either way with these images. From the screenshot we saw I do not even know how much of a zoom in we will get with the character and I think the developers wants us to see the tattoo or whatever it is. So if that means bigger bust with less cover so be it.
Going a little bit up on the boob makes everything better IMO (quick half assed photoshop edit)
Wow, this is significantly better. I really hope someone from Inti get's wind of this. Thx for making.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Won't work. The dress is now covering up part of a magical conduit.
What a terrible dress to have a curse with ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Its always the Waifu games where this happen
never see them increasing Mighty No.9's crotch size
never see them increasing Mighty No.9's crotch size
Magic can move the rose tho.
At least she doesnt dress like the witch from Star Ocean 5 which is for similar reasons. lol
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I didn't take it as rude--I genuinely didn't know any of the story elements they had drawn up before now so your post was informative to me. But the point of my comparison was not to suggest that this game will be as bad as MGS5... I find that hard to imagine on a number of levels... but that a canonical justification for a design is not a priori going to dissuade people from criticizing the design.
It may well be the case that everyone ends up ashamed of their words and deeds, but I think more likely as with Iga's previous games and other games in the genre, lore and story will end up mostly incidental. I don't think the character design's reception will be meaningfully modulated by the story justification you're discussing.
For example, it would be easy to imagine any number of alternate lore specifications that justify some other design (suppose that the curse caused pain when exposed to light, so she had to cover herself up; suppose that the tattoo was on her face because the curse was attacking her brain--we would lose absolutely none of the sort of evocative symbolism you're drawing on, right?) We could also imagine a trivially bad design, like a game where you control a totally invisible character with no feedback--so basically you just have a camera moving through empty environments, and the justification is "yes well she's invisible and immortal and she can phase through things". That would be internally consistent in the lore, but not a good design, right?
I just think that the observation that the lore and design complement each other is interesting, but not ultimately a response to any particular aesthetic reaction to the design and certainly not to a broader critique of the design within the medium as a whole.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Left picture, it has plenty of story justification and it's not even as showy as it could be. But they wanted to have a stylized look while giving a visual sign of corruption over her body. The main "Villain" has a similar look going for him as well.
They wanted to have two beautiful characters with a beautiful looking curse that is much much worse than it appears on the surface.
Edit: Oh and for your information that curse is all over her face in that picture
Edit 2: And no offense if you really didn't know the subject matter behind it should you really be making drive by snide comments? Is that ok now to do in threads?
Serenade_King
Banned
Why would you increase something that is already perfect?
I used to think Beck looked ok until someone said that it looks like he's wearing a thong... now I can't unsee it T_T, luckily Red Ash Beck doesn't have it
I know. We should encourage everyone to dress like this.
Perfect elegance and beauty. No room for discussion or dispute.
I know. We should encourage everyone to dress like this.
Perfect elegance and beauty. No room for discussion or dispute.
I can see their hands!!!
God damn it now I can't unsee it!
How dare they showing their filthy human flesh to other men.
My complain is that her exposed breast looks weird and nipple-less. I know it's futile to argue that it'd be cool to have -some- female characters that aren't designed to be waifus, that's interpreted as a personal attack by some people - but jeez, make her massive breasts not look nonsensical at the very least. How is that outrage? How is that unreasonable at all?
Also, leave Shanoa out of this, she's a superb design! (Because digital women can be good looking and keep some semblance of proper anatomy)
I said this before, but as one of the weird waifu-dudes, this kind of post really misses the point.
You don't design waifus by showing as much boob as possible and calling it a day. People used the "waifu" argument against Mika/Laura/Cammy/Chun Li too, and I was just thinking "yeah, fuck these waifu dudes, now let me get back to my glorious ojou Karin-sama, ooohohohoho".
It is not a surprise or a contradiction that the most covered character is the biggest waifu character of the entire cast, all of her design is extremely appealing to this audience. The character's personality is far more important for us creepy dudes than you realize.
Better developed and more unique characters are not something that will ruin the game for people looking for "waifus", on the contrary.
You mentioned Shanoa as a great design, and, well, I mean... you get the idea.
Suzushiiro
Banned
The problem people tend to have with criticism of kind of stuff like this is that it all too frequently goes into the territory of implicitly or explicitly attacking the people who create or consume it. When it comes to video games, "I don't like this" is fine, "I don't like this, therefore it's morally obligated to change and/or stop existing" is not, "I don't like this, and you're a bad person if you do" makes you an asshole, full stop.
Yes, the people who defend this stuff do tend to have a bit of a victim complex and overreact to criticism that doesn't cross the aforementioned line, but it's kinda hard to blame them when there are people implicitly (or explicitly!) calling them creepy pedophile molesters because they like Senran Kagura or don't have a problem with Quiet.
Yes, the people who defend this stuff do tend to have a bit of a victim complex and overreact to criticism that doesn't cross the aforementioned line, but it's kinda hard to blame them when there are people implicitly (or explicitly!) calling them creepy pedophile molesters because they like Senran Kagura or don't have a problem with Quiet.
Oh, I know all characters can be waifus, I just used that word to describe fanservice-y characters. Again, make her breasts massive for whatever reason - but make it look good. It currently doesn't, and hey, this is work in progress after all. How this stance would trigger anyone, I really don't understand.
And Karin rocks
She'd be my main in SFV but I suck at rushdown.My objection is not on any prurient grounds. I just think it looks stupid. It's uncanny. And shiny for some reason. Like a boob balloon.
If people want to misinterpret and blow that up into some angst about general discomfort with the unacceptable way women have been portrayed in games, I'd suggest you be very narrow with your criticism.
If people want to misinterpret and blow that up into some angst about general discomfort with the unacceptable way women have been portrayed in games, I'd suggest you be very narrow with your criticism.
Yes, that was major bullshit. Quiet was indeed terrible. But I still feel like she was much more hurt by how the game treats her and some of her actions than just the absolutely ridiculous excuse.
If it was just the plot excuse, she would just be an interesting character with a stupid design with an even more stupid excuse for it, but as it is, she's a potentially interesting and badass character ruined because Kojima just can't stop fulfilling his fetishes with his waifu Joosten. I can't help but imagine Kojima himself positioned in the exact places the camera is when they were recording her scenes.
If they didn't make that bullshit about her skin and she was dressed more... well, more dressed, would it really be ok? She would still take her pants off for the rain scene, she would still shower in front of people saying "what a naguthy girl", she would still give you an ass shot at every oportunity in the chopper, and so on.
It's still too early to absolve Bloodstained from doing anything similar, but I think it's somewhat safe to assume that, if you have issues with Miriam's design, using a more covered up alt costume would neutralize most of (if not all) of your issues on that front.
Yeah, people taking issue with the criticism clearly aren't actually reading it. The thread is full of "I actually like fanservice, but this is weird for X, Y and Z reasons" posts.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
They should have put the tattoo on her back like Shanoa, aka "We just wanted Shanoa like female and we got yet another big breasted female with tattoed clavage instead".
A shame, because Shanoa design (and art) is what people loved about it, and instead we got this, which is like the 180º version of Shanoa.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
That's pretty much what I was saying, if you look at the art a lot of it has it binding them down. They are still huge but they are obviously being pressed in by her clothes
But they did? That shit is all over her body.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
lmao
Relaxed Muscle
Member
But isn't that one like the "main one"? the one that starts the curse or something?