Support NeoGAF

[QisTopTier]

But isn't that one like the "main one"? the one that starts the curse or something?

and it's near her heart

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

and it's near her heart

Well, now I'm ashamed of my words and deeds.

 

[dan2026]

The problem isn't really having large breasts lol, the problem is why the developers put so many women with large breasts in games. They are not putting them in the game because "real life women with large breast exist", but to cater to gross people. It's also not a "post-gamergate" thing. Shame not even this game could escape pandering (that being said, Mirian is very low on the pandering scale fortunately); I am still excited for it.

This is getting absurd.

Why can't I like sexy characters and big boobs?

Guess I must be some gross pervert.

Spoiler

That's only a half truth.

 

[QisTopTier]

For an example of what Im talking about.

Lulu from FFX is good.

that's more accurate to what big breast being held by something tight fitting would look like.

 

[Gbraga]

And Karin rocks She'd be my main in SFV but I suck at rushdown.

Who needs to rushdown when you have DA BOOT

I will ruin people's lives with that move.

 

[Serenade_King]

Yes, the people who defend this stuff do tend to have a bit of a victim complex and overreact to criticism that doesn't cross the aforementioned line, but it's kinda hard to blame them when there are people implicitly (or explicitly!) calling them creepy pedophile molesters because they like Senran Kagura or don't have a problem with Quiet.

That's DOA5 Marie Rose conversations in a nut shell.

Spoiler

Poor fools, when will they learn that Nyotengu>all DOA waifus :S

Also, is the two tone hair a new trend in japan or something? First time I saw it was on Nagito from Dangan Ronpa 2, then as a hair option in Freedom Wars (that I used) and now Bloodstained. I really like it even though it looks, for a lack of a better word, really "Anime".

 

[QisTopTier]

Also, is the two tone hair a new trend in japan or something? First time I saw it was on Nagito from Dangan Ronpa 2, then as a hair option in Freedom Wars (that I used) and now Bloodstained. I really like it even though it looks, for a lack of a better word, really "Anime".

Well its certainly been a trend in USA for a while now

 

[NoctisVsStar]

I know. We should encourage everyone to dress like this.

Perfect elegance and beauty. No room for discussion or dispute.

 

[RM8]

Who needs to rushdown when you have DA BOOT

I will ruin people's lives with that move.

Lol. I'm still going to play as her, but judging from the betas, it's pretty clear Sim and Chun will be the breadwinners in my team :v

 

[Dio]

That's DOA5 Marie Rose conversations in a nut shell.

Spoiler

Poor fools, when will they learn that Nyotengu>all DOA waifus :S

Also, is the two tone hair a new trend in japan or something? First time I saw it was on Nagito from Dangan Ronpa 2, then as a hair option in Freedom Wars (that I used) and now Bloodstained. I really like it even though it looks, for a lack of a better word, really "Anime".

Gradient hair has been around for a while in anime. It's nothin' new.

 

[Beth Cyra]

The problem people tend to have with criticism of kind of stuff like this is that it all too frequently goes into the territory of implicitly or explicitly attacking the people who create or consume it. When it comes to video games, "I don't like this" is fine, "I don't like this, therefore it's morally obligated to change and/or stop existing" is not, "I don't like this, and you're a bad person if you do" makes you an asshole, full stop.

Yes, the people who defend this stuff do tend to have a bit of a victim complex and overreact to criticism that doesn't cross the aforementioned line, but it's kinda hard to blame them when there are people implicitly (or explicitly!) calling them creepy pedophile molesters because they like Senran Kagura or don't have a problem with Quiet.

There is certainly.

Granted I do come at it from a weird angle as I am a woman who dresses like this and has a very large bust.

So i admittedly do rush to judge at times when I should not when I hear this is disrepectful to women across the board -which has not happened here - but I can certainly see and agree with issues like the hem being in the wrong spot so it makes her look odd.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Left picture, it has plenty of story justification and it's not even as showy as it could be. But they wanted to have a stylized look while giving a visual sign of corruption over her body. The main "Villain" has a similar look going for him as well.

They wanted to have two beautiful characters with a beautiful looking curse that is much much worse than it appears on the surface.

I have no idea what you're talking about with the picture or the comments here.

Edit: Oh and for your information that curse is all over her face in that picture

I have no idea what you're responding to here.

Edit 2: And no offense if you really didn't know the subject matter behind it should you really be making drive by snide comments? Is that ok now to do in threads?

I have no idea which comment you're thinking of here.

Is it possible you're quoting the wrong person?

 

[Serenade_King]

Gradient hair has been around for a while in anime. It's nothin' new.

I have seen gradient but not two different tones like in this case black and blond, also haven't seen it in anime but I haven't seen any of the new ones except a few like Jojo. Just find it wierd that I'm starting to see it now more often.

 

[Beth Cyra]

I have seen gradient but not two different tones like in this case black and blond, also haven't seen it in anime but I haven't seen any of the new ones except a few like Jojo. Just find it wierd that I'm starting to see it now more often.

I see it alot in fashion circles in Oregon at least with two completely seperate tones, and its been going for a while.

Yo be honest it barely registered to me she had it because Im so used to it.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

This is getting absurd.

Why can't I like sexy characters and big boobs?

Guess I must be some gross pervert.

Spoiler

That's only a half truth.

Oh, that's not an issue. It's just, well, people would like some variety in their chest sizes.

It woudl be like if every girl character had lightning butt going on: flat as a pancake. It leaves those longing for some hometown out in the dust, so to speak.

Granted, my main problem with the design is well, she should be showing some nipple with something that low cut.

 

[Serenade_King]

I see it alot in fashion circles in Oregon at least with two completely seperate tones, and its been going for a while.

Yo be honest it barely registered to me she had it because Im so used to it.

Ok, I'm from Puerto Rico and haven't seen it here. Also I just noticed I'm no longer a Junior Member, yay me!

 

[Crocodile]

I didn't take it as rude--I genuinely didn't know any of the story elements they had drawn up before now so your post was informative to me. But the point of my comparison was not to suggest that this game will be as bad as MGS5... I find that hard to imagine on a number of levels... but that a canonical justification for a design is not a priori going to dissuade people from criticizing the design.

It may well be the case that everyone ends up ashamed of their words and deeds, but I think more likely as with Iga's previous games and other games in the genre, lore and story will end up mostly incidental. I don't think the character design's reception will be meaningfully modulated by the story justification you're discussing.

For example, it would be easy to imagine any number of alternate lore specifications that justify some other design (suppose that the curse caused pain when exposed to light, so she had to cover herself up; suppose that the tattoo was on her face because the curse was attacking her brain--we would lose absolutely none of the sort of evocative symbolism you're drawing on, right?) We could also imagine a trivially bad design, like a game where you control a totally invisible character with no feedback--so basically you just have a camera moving through empty environments, and the justification is "yes well she's invisible and immortal and she can phase through things". That would be internally consistent in the lore, but not a good design, right?

I just think that the observation that the lore and design complement each other is interesting, but not ultimately a response to any particular aesthetic reaction to the design and certainly not to a broader critique of the design within the medium as a whole.

I don't mean my posts as a "counter" to an opposing opinion (well maybe to Relia calling it pandering but not to her disliking it or critiquing it). I mean a disagreement isn't inherently a counter is it? Anyway, I'm just explaining my awareness of the developers intent and that so far I understand it and mostly agree with it. It is true that there are other paths that they could have gone with the interaction and connection of lore, character design and game mechanics and if they had gone any number of those different routes, I would have evaluated it as such and come to my own opinion as to whether or not I like it or dislike it, if it might be fun or not fun or if it did or did not cross any personal enjoyment/comfort thresholds. Just as people are throwing their "hats into the ring" (either to merely express themselves or in the hope of catching the ear of a developer) I am merely doing the same.

 

[Maedhros]

I think it's less about skin and more about large breasts. Somehow there's this mentality now in the gaming community, post-gamergate, that depicting females with large breasts is sexist or misogynistic...as if real women IRL don't have large breasts. Thanks ObamaAnita.

Hey, at least we evolved a bit huh?

Hopefully, we'll continue to evolve to the point that we really don't care about things like this again.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Ok, I'm from Puerto Rico and haven't seen it here. Also I just noticed I'm no longer a Junior Member, yay me!

Suppose she bleached/dyed her hair but then suddenly stopped and let the dark roots grow out.

 

[Dangerblade]

I, personally, don't give a fuck how big her boobs are. I just want a game with amazing gameplay, and I have faith that will come to pass.

 

[QisTopTier]

I have no idea what you're talking about with the picture or the comments here.



I have no idea what you're responding to here.



I have no idea which comment you're thinking of here.

Is it possible you're quoting the wrong person?

I quoted the right person but there is a chance I'm misinterpreting your comments. The snide comment part was the quiet thing.

The first thing is about how her design fits into the story and it's goals with the character design.

The second thing was you suggesting bringing up about how it could be infecting her face and mind.


I'm critical of the design myself, but I don't veiw it as super waifu pandering stuff I view it more as they are trying to make a beautiful/tragic character IN GAME and it's lore. But outside of game they are doing whatever to get more money and so on so I can see the complaints. The inflated boob stuff looks like shit I've complained about it the last two pages already but the omg they are waifu pandering now stuff is hilarious when she's always been a beautiful character with cute artwork done of her officially.

Her male counterpart is pretty god damn beautiful himself. I mean just look at that dude. Vega from SF would be jealous

Honestly this was what immediately came to mind when I got the update yesterday. Not "I AM OUTRAGEt" or "how dare they time to boycott until censorship is achieved" but something more like "I don't remember backing a waifuvania, maybe I'm not the target audience for this game after all."

But with artwork like this since the damn near beginning.

Are you really that shocked about them prettying her up a bit more and making her as visually appealing as possible? That funded picture is 100% waifu type stuff.

 

[diablos991]

Why can't people just trust in the developers vision anymore?

Just add a toggle, or make the default, that puts the girl in a turtleneck and allow those of us that trust the developers vision to have a DLC pack to change the skin.

Gameplay isn't going to change.

 

[Palculator]

Just add a toggle, or make the default, that puts the girl in a turtleneck and allow those of us that trust the developers vision to have a DLC pack to change the skin.

Hey man, turtlenecks can be hot too.

 

[Dio]

Why can't people just trust in the developers vision anymore?

Just add a toggle, or make the default, that puts the girl in a turtleneck and allow those of us that trust the developers vision to have a DLC pack to change the skin.

I think I understand the exasperation of people in these threads now, and on threads on NeoGAF in general where people have to explain the same thing over and over again. This kind of post really makes me feel like I'm just shouting into the wind here if no one's going to read the last few pages of discussion and driveby post about things.

People giving criticism is not a law. It's just someone saying 'I think you should change thing.' Whether they change it or not is up to the developer, whether you like it or not. If they think there's valid criticism and want to change it after listening, they'll change it, and there's nothing you can do about it. If they think it's irrelevant, they won't change it. Christ.

 

[diablos991]

Hey man, turtlenecks can be hot too.

I'm a fan.
But I could care less if the character is hot or not. I want the character to represent what the developer envisioned; nothing more, nothing less.

 

[JordanN]

Oh, that's not an issue. It's just, well, people would like some variety in their chest sizes.

It woudl be like if every girl character had lightning butt going on: flat as a pancake. It leaves those longing for some hometown out in the dust, so to speak.

You know, if they designed Miriam with her largest feature being her butt instead, none of these complaints would be happening. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Morrigan Stark]

So much better with so little change...

And yet her boobs are still big. But I guess that won't stop the ridiculous accusations of prudishness or body shaming and so on.

Such as:

It'll never stop until all women fit a universally inoffensive mold, and are almost completely covered up. Until then, it's outrage, outrage, outrage!!

Ugh, you know, what kind of disgusting person has breasts I just can't believe it.

I know. We should encourage everyone to dress like this.

Perfect elegance and beauty. No room for discussion or dispute.

I can see their hands!!!

Just add a toggle, or make the default, that puts the girl in a turtleneck

*sigh*

 

[Dio]

I'm a fan.
But I could care less if the character is hot or not. I want the character to represent what the developer envisioned; nothing more, nothing less.

They wouldn't have asked for fan input if they didn't want to take people's opinions into account.

They are being affected by outside sources, fans and backers giving their opinion on character designs and environments RIGHT NOW and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.

That being said, I like the design as is, I don't feel like it really needs to be changed.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Honestly this was what immediately came to mind when I got the update yesterday. Not "I AM OUTRAGEt" or "how dare they time to boycott until censorship is achieved" but something more like "I don't remember backing a waifuvania, maybe I'm not the target audience for this game after all."

I mean sure, maybe big boobs popping out of her top is where the waifu stuff ends, but now I'm a little leery.

the flipside is the kickstarter wouldn't have gained as much money without waifus and the crowd they attract

see also: Lab Zero Games kickstarters

 

[diablos991]

They wouldn't have asked for fan input if they didn't want to take people's opinions into account.

They are being affected by outside sources, fans and backers giving their opinion on character designs and environments RIGHT NOW and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.

That being said, I like the design as is, I don't feel like it really needs to be changed.

And I'm providing input just like everybody else.
I think the design is fine as well. The tattoo has the potential to add some interesting depth to the character.

 

[Dio]

And I'm providing input just like everybody else.
I think the design is fine as well. The tattoo has the potential to add some interesting depth to the character.

Right, I'm just saying that your idea of 'the pristine developer's vision' is already tarnished by your standards since they are iterating on their own ideas by taking fans and backers into consideration for the creation of the game.

 

[PdotMichael]

How is the waifu factor even related to the breast size?

That's maybe some random name calling.

 

[QisTopTier]

How is the waifu factor even related to the breast size?

That's maybe some random name calling.

It is, breast size has nothing to do with waifu crap directly. Waifu stuff is more like that congrats pic, the picture with her with glasses and so on. The boob stuff is sex appeal stuff. While they cross lines they are not directly related.

It's pretty much the equivalent of using a slur out of context with what it is ment for.

This thread is completely destroyed now D:

^_^/ Should be back on track after another update.

 

[Maedhros]

This thread is completely destroyed now D:

 

[Dimitri LH]

Ok, I'm from Puerto Rico and haven't seen it here. Also I just noticed I'm no longer a Junior Member, yay me!

Im from and live there still and ive seen it enough times. Pretty common now a days. (Aguadilla if you have to ask where lol, ive seenalot of that hairstyle in mayaguez for some odd reason)

Edit: oh and grats on being a member now! =D


Cant believe this thread is on this subject now.....bleh. it not even that bad with Miriam.

 

[Dio]

This thread is completely destroyed now D:

There's nothing else to really talk about right now.

My big beef with her character model right now is how fucked up the mesh topology is on certain parts of her body.

See her knee there? Her knee is all fucked up when they bend it in that pose.

 

[Stone Ocean]

How is the waifu factor even related to the breast size?

That's maybe some random name calling.

"Waifu" is GAF's second favourite word to throw around in discontent without actually understanding what it means

This thread is completely destroyed now D:

What is a shader?

 

[Vazra]

There's nothing else to really talk about right now.

My big beef with her character model right now is how fucked up the mesh topology is on certain parts of her body.

See her knee there? Her knee is all fucked up when they bend it in that pose.

Cant unsee now. Damn the knee looks awful. Hopefully they improve the details.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

You know, if they designed Miriam with her largest feature being her butt instead, none of these complaints would be happening. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

I dunno, that shirt sticks out pretty far. We might have some hometown going on after all.

 

[Beth Cyra]

There's nothing else to really talk about right now.

My big beef with her character model right now is how fucked up the mesh topology is on certain parts of her body.

See her knee there? Her knee is all fucked up when they bend it in that pose.

Hmm completely unimpotant but I kinda wish they had her plant her heel.

The sideways whispy look seems off somehow to me.

 

[QisTopTier]

There's nothing else to really talk about right now.

My big beef with her character model right now is how fucked up the mesh topology is on certain parts of her body.

See her knee there? Her knee is all fucked up when they bend it in that pose.

Holy shit that's bad xD I really hope they go with the animation style that GG XRD used for her. Not the shaders and stuff but the model swapping and basically hand frame by frame animation.

 

[Maedhros]

There's nothing else to really talk about right now.

My big beef with her character model right now is how fucked up the mesh topology is on certain parts of her body.

See her knee there? Her knee is all fucked up when they bend it in that pose.

Always hated it when they first showed this.

Hopefully next week we'll see it with the new shader and see if it'll look better.

Have you gave then your feedback for this?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I think I understand the exasperation of people in these threads now, and on threads on NeoGAF in general where people have to explain the same thing over and over again. This kind of post really makes me feel like I'm just shouting into the wind here if no one's going to read the last few pages of discussion and driveby post about things.

People giving criticism is not a law. It's just someone saying 'I think you should change thing.' Whether they change it or not is up to the developer, whether you like it or not. If they think there's valid criticism and want to change it after listening, they'll change it, and there's nothing you can do about it. If they think it's irrelevant, they won't change it. Christ.

Not to undermine you, but my approach when discussing the subject is that I'm not actually ever advocating that they change an existing design (whether it's a finished product or a work in progress). I mean, I'm totally cool if somebody reads what I have to say and thinks "you know, he's right; let's change it." But that's not really the end game. Further, if devs/artists are really proud of their designs and see them ultimately as exactly the thing they wanted to make, that's cool with me. It then falls upon me to decide whether or not I'm bothered enough by it to pass or to accept it in spite of my misgivings.

But anyhow, I mainly argue points on the side of trying to advocate that -- next time around -- if this is something that's being done because you think "this is what gamers want," don't count me in those ranks. If the thought is "gamers want big boobs and lots of cleavage," I would like to go on the record and vehemently state that that's not what I want.

But really, as long as the content is not too fan-servicey, I can forgive a lot as ultimately I'm just after a fun game. But I'd prefer one that I wouldn't have to be embarrassed in to play in front of my wife or kid.

 

[LowSignal]

I forgot about this game and just seen it got bumped back here. I threw down $60 because I'm hopeful it will be good and i haven't supported a Kickstarter yet.

 

[Maedhros]

Holy shit that's bad xD I really hope they go with the animation style that GG XRD used for her. Not the shaders and stuff but the model swapping and basically hand frame by frame animation.

Yeah... not happening.

I don't have confidence in them doing it... unless they can get the GG developers to do it...

 

[Serenade_King]

Why can't people just trust in the developers vision anymore?

Just add a toggle, or make the default, that puts the girl in a turtleneck and allow those of us that trust the developers vision to have a DLC pack to change the skin.

Gameplay isn't going to change.

Hey man, turtlenecks can be hot too.

I think I found the perfect one!

 

[Beth Cyra]

I think I found the perfect one!

That top would be perfect in pink.

Seriously though wasnt that pretty much on of the Mass Effect characters Armor?

 

[Palculator]

I think I found the perfect one!

( ≖‿&#8790

 

[Serenade_King]

That top would be perfect in pink.

Seriously though wasnt that pretty much on of the Mass Effect characters Armor?

Found the picture here, there is also pink.
http://amzn.com/B014QZROE4

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

It's interesting that her outfit is a variation on her 'pure' appearance outfit

[IMG]http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/ritualofthenight/images/1/18/Pure_Miriam_Costume.png/revision/latest?cb=20150613004326[/IMG]

Which is still a bit sexy, but obviously covers more.

Although, what I really woudl like to note is this official art for the wardrobe system:

[IMG]http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/ritualofthenight/images/5/59/Miriam_Customize.png/revision/latest?cb=20150830020234[/IMG]

Note how it covers a bit more of the Life factor, even with her hands above her head. Must just be an issue with the in game model itself.