Star Wars VII doesn't respect the original trilogy (spoilers)
- Thread starter PerezDeCorcho
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SocksAndShoes
Banned
What exactly was the force before? Because it's always seemed like a superpower to me.
And the idea of someone having force powers without being properly trained has been well-established.
This is the first movie of a trilogy. You're not going to get all the answers right off the bat. TFA was never going to be a 3 hour movie filled with expositions and flashback sequences.
pretty much this
Yeah the thing missing in TFA is the state of the galaxy. Although I have to assume at this point it's more like a Cold War more than anything if the Imperial remnants couldn't take back what they presumably lost and the republic couldn't stamp out the imperials either and Leia is really the only one leading what amounts to the same rebellion for thirty years.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
Which amounted to something original. Nothing is *completely* new. Lucas combined a metric shit-ton of influences into what eventually became Star Wars.
boutrosinit
Street Fighter IV World Champion
I thought it was nostalgia porn, affixed into a completely shite plot.
Great actors, great acting by some of them, but man...
I can't believe I'm gonna say it, but I prefer Lucas.
Great actors, great acting by some of them, but man...
I can't believe I'm gonna say it, but I prefer Lucas.
Do you need to be told everything right away? They have three movies to tell this story. Did you learn everything about the Clone Wars or Vader or the Emperor in A New Hope?
stufte
Member
I was going to post this exact thing. Both Obi Wan and Yoda fucked off into obscurity for years after shit went down. It's what emo jedi do.
The story isn't done yet....wanting the film to explain everything in detail right away is not how it works.
It seems a bit ridiculous, but there really weren't that many Jedi, considering the size of a galaxy. Most people probably never saw one, making them legends to most people. Empire propaganda probably helped turned the legends to myth. You even see that in A New Hope, with the one guy referring to the Force as "an ancient religion."
As for between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens, I suppose only Luke + whomever he told would know exactly how the Emperor died.
With that being said, how Han didn't know about them/put any stock in the force is kind of weird when you consider Chewbacca knew Yoda.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
"For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you. Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere! Yes, even between the land and the ship."
If you want to dumb it down, then yes, it is a sort of 'superpower'. But the way it's HANDLED in this film isn't a far cry from how superpowers are handled in a Marvel film, for example.
We don't need to be spoon-fed answers for every single threadline.
I think they successfully did a "fixed" version of Ep2/3 Anakin.
I think the first half of the movie is good, when it's echoing Ep4. The second half turns into a blatant copy/paste that gets absurdly predictable.
Isn't Star Wars basically a giant homage to Buck Rogers serials and Kurosawa movies?
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
He just wants to bitch that a movie somehow ruined his childhood. Really, we've seen a metric shitload of this post time after time again since TFA came out. I shouldn't be so surprised, but I am.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
I'd agree with you, except this film explains practically nothing.
As for the lightsaber calling out to Rey, it's not unknown for non-living things to be imbued with some sort of Force imprinting, such as with the cave on Dagobah. There's a heck of a lot of history around that particular lightsaber, and there are still two movies to explain why it has such an influence on Rey specifically. We can't expect to know everything all at once.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Luke behaves exactly how his two mentors did: to go into hiding when shit got rough. It's not exactly uncharacteristic behaviour given what's happened before.
LegendofLex
Member
And it isn't even just what wise old mentors do in Star Wars.
It's what they do in basically every fantasy epic ever.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
only after being totally defeated by a vastly superior Force. The entire Jedi order was demolished, they were completely outgunned and outmanned by the Empire with no way to fight back.
Luke's students get killed by some Sith wannabes and says, "Welp, I'm sad now...time to hide for 30 years despite being the single most powerful person in the galaxy and having a sister who runs the New Republic/Resistance"
Fair enough.
Consider, however, you're comparing one film to Lucas's six other films and countless other mythological contributions.
ANH and TFA without ANYTHING else compared, and you've got a basis for comparison, IMO.
I understand your distaste of not getting the answers you thought you were going to get, but others are fine with the story unfolding in a natural manner instead of the stilted, micro-managed, exposition filled prequel trilogy.
Could that be why some are ok with some mystery being put back into the series? Perhaps. It doesn't make it a bad thing, just not what you would have wanted.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
but he's an awesome pilot, bro
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
You literally responded to his post with the post that issued the response.
DOWN
Banned
You're making an arbitrary argument
No reason Luke can't feel as defeated and failed as his Masters did
Except TFA doesn't imply he's been in hiding for 30 years. In fact during Rey's flashback to said Jedi massacre Kylo Ren looks close to the same as he does in the present?
More_Badass
Member
Would you expect all the answers in the first act of a movie or the first chapter of a book? We'll get the answers next movie. This one was introducing new and old characters, setting up the chess board, etc.
30 years? Did Kylo betray Luke the second he was born?
SocksAndShoes
Banned
I...don't see that at all. Marvel movies (with a few exceptions, of course) have to devote time to showing how their characters got their superpowers. Star Wars doesn't really need to do that since the force and how it works is already well established in TFA.
Septimus Prime
Member
Dead skin cells, dropped from Anakin's and Luke's hands, deposited midichlorians onto the lightsaber's handle.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
How about a few, at least? So I know what's going on?
obijkenobi
Member
I mean, yeah I get the Empire was in charge for 20 years or whatever. But there had been a galaxy wide war that the Jedi were involved in for X amount of years. That would have made the news. And they were around for "thousands of generations" before that. I mean, I've never seen a member of ISIS before, but I know they exist.
And I can't imagine the propaganda that the Rebels would have used around Luke the entire time he became a member of the Rebel Alliance. Dude blew up a Death Star, was walking around with a lightsaber/using the Force in combat, etc. Hell, Alliance higher ups were using the battle cry "May the Force be with us" and Vader was obviously a Force user....choking the shit out of people that pissed him off.
Thank you. And it was Flash Gordon, not Buck Rogers
Did you sign that petition?
Right, it had to be a lot less than that, because he's only been in hiding at most since Kylo Ren turned.
WrenchNinja
Member
At least Sidious didn't live and isnt running around through a clone
You do know.
Luke tried training new Jedi, Ben turned on him and destroyed it. Now Luke is gone. Han and Leia couldn't deal, so they split. And now there's a new evil force called the First Order.
Summer Haze
Banned
Luke's sweat touched that saber, thus his midichlorians were left on there too. She senses those little critters.
Lol.
Lol.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
OP, you couldn't have posted in any of the other countless SW hate threads? You had to make an entirely new one?
Hopefully a joke post, but I love posts like these. So deliciously fanboy.
Hopefully a joke post, but I love posts like these. So deliciously fanboy.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
If Luke's students being killed is all it takes for him to go into hiding for years, then Luke fuckin SUCKS.
You wanna take about arbitrary, how about making Luke a McGuffin for hilariously thin reasons so he doesn't overshadow the movie. Cuz thats what happen.
Basically.
I've never really cared about Star Wars too much, TFA as a movie was good and that's all I really care about at the end of the day.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Uh, what? I don't know that Obi-Wan or Yoda would have anything to say because they went into isolation when they failed too!
In effect, what happened to Luke was that nearly every potential Jedi that he knew of was dead. He could even very well feel that his weakness is what caused Kylo Ren to succumb to the Dark Side.
In effect, what happened to Luke was that nearly every potential Jedi that he knew of was dead. He could even very well feel that his weakness is what caused Kylo Ren to succumb to the Dark Side.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
Answer this one for me: Why is there a Resistance when there's already a New Republic? What does the New Republic do?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
The Force is supposed to be mysticism. It's a Franciscan monk getting in touch with God. It's a Buddhist ascetic finding enlightenment. It's Neo awakening to the fact that he's living in The Matrix.
... But I feel that they haven't talked about the Force in mystical terms for 4 movies now... And without that context, it's kind of like people awakening to their mutant powers. Or it's like Harry Potter learning magic because of birth-right. That's incredibly dumb and tragic to me. There was once something more novel and universal to this concept than just being about wizards with superpowers.
I don't know if I mind that it's easy to learn though. It does seem in the OT that mere knowledge of the Force is a starting point... Not unlike "faith" in a spiritual tradition.
... But I feel that they haven't talked about the Force in mystical terms for 4 movies now... And without that context, it's kind of like people awakening to their mutant powers. Or it's like Harry Potter learning magic because of birth-right. That's incredibly dumb and tragic to me. There was once something more novel and universal to this concept than just being about wizards with superpowers.
I don't know if I mind that it's easy to learn though. It does seem in the OT that mere knowledge of the Force is a starting point... Not unlike "faith" in a spiritual tradition.
That's your argument against Luke? "What a bitch! So some kids got killed, who cares?!"
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