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[Madness]

I agree with a lot you said. Characters seemed to stuck in stasis for the 30 years between ROTJ and TFA. Han Solo is back doing what he's "good at" as part of the grieving process or whatever? Thats some lazy Lindelof type shit.

That's probably to appease the original trilogy diehards who hate the prequels incessantly. They just added in R2-D2, C3PO, Han, Chewbacca, even Luke rather than tell a completely new story. I mean it was essentially fan service, especially the Millennium Falcon, which magically 30 years later is piloted by Rey and Finn and is at the exact place and time as when they need a ship and are then taken by Han at the same time as they escape Jakku which at the same they get boarded by those other criminals and Han needs to leave his superior freighter and fly the Falcon the back.

So they pretty much just kept the characters stagnant and then shoddily added in exposition. The scene with Han and Leia talking about what they've been doing felt so forced.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Wasn't blowing up the Death Star the plan? Like, it was expected that one person would do it. Others got close to doing it, but Luke is the one who was able to blow it up.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Wasn't blowing up the Death Star the plan? Like, it was expected that one person would do it. Others got close to doing it, but Luke is the one who was able to blow it up.

Someone already failed the shot before Luke took his. It wasn't a matter of being there, you also needed to be perfect.

 

[demosthenes]

Everything was going to go wrong for the OT characters anyway. There's no way it couldn't or else the story wouldn't have any tension. The only way to avoid them having crappy elderly lives would have been to jump the story forward far enough that they weren't involved.

The old EU ran into the same problem. The New Republic was established after Endor but rarely got a moment's peace with constant attacks from Imperial warlords and splinter factions (Zsinj, Ysard, Thrawn, Daala, the Crimson Empire, etc.), alien invasions (Nagai, Tof, Ssi-Ruuk, Yuuzhan Vong, etc.), Palpatine coming back to life, dark side splinter factions (Second Imperium, Empire Reborn, anything Lumiya was doing, etc.), culminating in the Vong killing trillions of people and the New Republic collapsing. So they set up the Galactic Alliance instead, which immediately becomes a dictatorship under Darth Caedus, who was Han and Leia's Jedi son who turned to the dark side and was killed by his sister Jaina (they also had another son, Anakin, who was killed in the Vong War), then the Senate got corrupted again when the Lost Tribe of the Sith stacked it and elected Abeloth. Then they finally got some peace, but two generations later the Galactic Alliance was defeated and the Jedi purged againin a war by the revived Empire and Sith, under the Fel dynasty and the One Sith ruled by Darth Krayt, until the Sith betrayed the Empire and went to war. The whole thing ended in an uneasy three-way government set up by Empress Marasiah Fel, the again-revived Jedi Order, and the resurrected Alliance.

At least it's more streamlined this time.

This is a FANTASTIC summary of the EU. It's also the reason I couldn't stand the EU.

 

[Nokagi]

I actually agree with much of what the OP is saying. Still think it's an enjoyable movie and definitely better than the prequels but it did have it's share of problems.

 

[Snake]

Would I be correct in saying that it's the first Star Wars movie with no dismemberment?

Episode I: Maul gets cut in half
Episode II: Anakin loses forearm
Episode III: Dooku and Anakin loses multiple body parts
Episode IV: Dude at the cantina loses arm
Episode V: Luke loses hand
Episode VI: I guess Vader only loses a robo-hand

Didn't see if someone mentioned it yet but
Episode VII: One of the Rathtars had one or more tentacles dismembered.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Ben was toying with Finn b/c of how much he hated Finn b/c everything is Finn's fault. That's what happened when you toy with your food. If Ben wanted to have outright killed Finn, Finn would be dead.

If he's flawed enough to have a lapse that let himself be wounded in a fight even though he shouldn't, he's certainly flawed enough to let himself lose in a fight even though he shouldn't.

Yeah, he deflect's Rey's shots in the woods when he captures her.

Aa, alright.

 

[Brakke]

And yet Luke was being pursued by a master of the Force, who is described as a great pilot. Who somehow had no idea that he was about to get shot at by Han Solo. Jeez Han Solo is such a Mary Sue, he doesn't even need the Force to one-up one of the most powerful users of the Force ever!

A funny thing about the OT is people pretty much only defeat Sith when they're distracted by fixating on Luke. Han beats Vader at Yavin, Vader beats Emperor in the throne room. I guess Luke bests Vader in the throne room when he's getting all Dark Side-y himself. And now we know Snoke is fixated on Luke. Luke's the best Dark Side bait in the whole a galaxy.

 

[OmegaFax]

Luke Skywalker:
By the end of Return of the Jedi, Luke has redeemed his father. He's completed his training and has become the last Jedi Knight. He must pass on what he has learned and he must restore all that has been lost at the hands of the evil Empire. We're left to imagine a future in which Luke builds a new Jedi Order and restores peace and justice to the galaxy.

In The Force Awakens, we learn that Luke has failed to continue this legacy. The Empire has returned in the form of 'The First Order' and is now continuing their campaign of destruction and terror. In response to this, Luke has "vanished".

He's given up on the Jedi after Kylo Ren's turn to the Dark Side. Perhaps he believes that the Jedi are simply not worth the trouble? So, Luke isolates himself from the rest of the galaxy. In doing this, the Jedi would also fade away from existence.

Is this really the Luke Skywalker we remember? Would Obi-Wan Kenobi or Yoda condone Luke's actions? I would hope not.

In other words: "Fuck it all", said Luke Skywalker.

We really don't know Luke's motives in The Force Awakens. On the surface, it's seems very similar to Yoda and Obi-Wan going into hiding following the events of Revenge of the Sith. The problem is Return of the Jedi ended on a higher note. The second Death Star was destroyed. The Rebel Alliance celebrated a huge victory over the Empire. The Emperor was killed. Vader was also killed but personally redeemed by saving his son. Why's Luke being a robot fisted hobo on an Irish mountainside? *shrugs*

Han Solo:
Galactic criminal turned General. A legend in every sense of the word. Must I really go on about this beloved character?

Fast forward to The Force Awakens, and Han has taken ten steps backward. He goes back to doing what he's "good at". He has undone all of his development from the original films and returns to a world of scum and villainy because his son succumbed to the Dark Side. Rather than pursue his son, he instead pursues his coveted ship, the Millennium Falcon, along with his drinking pal, Chewbacca.

In other words: "Fuck it all", said Han Solo.

Disagree mostly. The dialog where Finn and Rey are like "OMG, HAN SOLO!" "The Alliance general?!" "No the smuggler!" ... kind of a few forced Rey being giddy over a name moments. Eh, Return of the Jedi just kind of said "fuck it" and ranked up Lando and Han to Alliance Generals. They handed out rank like candy. Couldn't see Han at a desk job and glad he went back to random space shenanigans. Leia was the only one out of the three I could logically see commanding an army. She was more involved in command decisions for ANH and Empire. Her role was kind of nerfed in Jedi IMO.

Lando basically betrayed his friend, let the Empire overrun his mining operation, successfully infiltrated a criminal organization in a stupid bone mask to almost immediately get eaten by a giant sand vagina the moment shit went down. He became the general that lead the assault against the second Death Star. He did however not screw that up. Alliance HR took a hail mary on him. He's basically missing from The Force Awakens.

Leia Organa:
Leia has been fighting the same war for thirty years and has failed to stop the Empire from re-emerging into a position of ridiculous, unparalleled power. In fact, they may be more powerful than ever, given that their new Death Star -cough- Starkiller Base can destroy a whole bunch of planets at once with the power of the sun! How did a crumbling Empire acquire the resources for such a project without being noticed? How could Leia fail to address the issue of Starkiller Base before its completion? Is it merely incompetence on her part as a leader?

The galaxy is now in greater danger than ever before. What has Leia been doing for the past three decades? What was the point of the whole war? Were Luke, Han, and Leia to weak to stop the Empire?

In other words: "Pass the blow", said Princess Leia.

Space is big. It was disguised as a planet. There's probably going to be a 5-part novel or comic that explains it >_>

The Force:
The Force is nothing more than a superpower, according to The Force Awakens. It is now something that can be learned without the rigid discipline of Yoda or Obi-Wan. Now, if you believe hard enough, you can do anything with the Force!

Examples: Rey using Jedi mind tricks on a stormtrooper. Rey 'resisting' Kylo Ren. Rey going as far as to Force-pull a lightsaber into her grasp.

Rey using the Jedi mind trick was bullshit. I guess it's an "awakening" because she got the instant ramen version of The Force that took like three movies for Luke to learn. They did it in such a way that people who are unfamiliar with Star Wars had no idea what the hell she was doing. It's an obvious call back. Yay for the filmmakers getting all of this out of the way so we don't have to spend half of the next movie learning more about force powers.

Luke's Lightsaber:
This is the most idiotic attempt by the film to 'respect' the original trilogy. In all of Star Wars' cinematic history, lightsabers were mere tools to a Jedi. An elegant weapon and nothing more. But now, lightsabers are mystical entities. They can "call to you", not unlike how the One Ring calls to Frodo in 'The Lord of the Rings'.

During the film's closing, Rey even goes as far as to 'return' the weapon to its owner, Luke. For reasons that I cannot comprehend, this scene has a ceremonial undertone, when the reality is that Luke never saw the weapon as anything more than, well, a weapon.

But, in favor of pleasing the fans with nostalgic imagery, the film defies all previously established logic and paints the weapon as something sacred.

So much so, that this is the ending shot of the film.

In a way, I believe this closing scene is symbolic of what the film ultimately is. It's a big, $200 million dollar misunderstanding of its source material. The film expects its audience to be too caught up in the fact that it's Luke's first lightsaber to realize just how absurd the whole scenario is. You see, to the majority of the audience, the lightsaber very much has become a sacred sort of object. And now, the audience's mindset is bleeding into the film itself.

Luke's re-uniting with the lightsaber he lost in his first fight with Vader on Cloud City. This was the moment he found out Vader was his father and his world was turned upside down. Force Awakens sets up the question asking who found it and how it got off of Bespin.

The prequels, especially Attack of the Clones, treated lightsabers like candy to the point it made Obi-Wan picking up Anakin's lightsaber at the end of Revenge of the Sith practically meaningless. Obi-Wan used something like four or five different lightsabers during the span of the prequels alone.

[

B]Originality[/B]
Star Wars (1977) is an incredibly original film when you think of it in context. Give George Lucas all the shit you want, but the man was a visionary. He had big ideas. Even the Prequel trilogy was born out of some kind of creative spark. The Clone Wars is a great fictional setting, and fits into the Star Wars universe very well. The execution within the films, however, was questionable.

I will not go as far as to call The Force Awakens a worse film than The Phantom Menace. While that film was too distant from what made the originals so beloved, The Force Awakens is ultimately too derivative. It falls on the other extreme end of the spectrum. It's too safe. It exploits the nostalgic times we live in and gives people exactly what they want, but nothing more than that. It's the frankenstein monster of Star Wars films.

-----------

Nothing has changed. The Rebels are still fighting the Empire. The Jedi are still on the brink of extinction. Our heroes accomplished nothing.

The Empire doesn't have to strike back because the Empire never left.

What was the fucking point?

[/QUOTE]

The point: It's an epilogue. New territory. A continuing adventure. It isn't bound by things that are going to happen like the prequels did.

 

[Mortemis]

Wasn't blowing up the Death Star the plan? Like, it was expected that one person would do it. Others got close to doing it, but Luke is the one who was able to blow it up.

Expected as in likely? Nah, iirc they said it had low chances of actually working. They went all out though since they had no other choice.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Also, let's look back on Luke's "training" in A New Hope, shall we?

It consists entirely of him failing to block blaster bolts, Obi-Wan covering his eyes and telling him to act on instinct, and Luke immediately blocking blaster bolts blindfolded two seconds later, despite never even touching a lightsaber until he met Obi-Wan earlier that day.

I'm sorry, but Rey is the one pulling Mary Sue force powers out of nowhere? Excuse me?

Obi Wan had the trip to alderaan to give luke some basic instructions in using the force, yes. Had Rey also blocked a few blaster shots with a blindfold after being instructed to let go and trust the force do you really believe people would be grumpy at that?

What luke does do later in the film is trust the force to guide his hands to get the killing blow on the death star. That is not particularly far fetched, he's already a skilled pilot reportedly, and he's very strong in the force. It's directly related to the skill he was being taught earlier in the film. Other pilots almost blew up the death star but just weren't lucky enough for it to go in because it was such a tight shot. Luke taking Obi Wan's advice to let go and trust his instincts (just like earlier!) gets him the +2 to his dice roll.

Rey has some fighting skills, and is also force sensitive, sure. It's ok that she's better than zero skill luke with a saber since she'd at least understand the principles involved and her reflexes should be pretty good. But Luke never randomly manifested an advanced jedi technique (the mind trick) with no setup when it was plot convenient and he'd never tried it before. He also didn't body a Dark Jedi 24 hours after departing from his farm. They're not remotely equivalent feats.

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

I got the impression that the First Order were chumps compared to the old Empire (save for the power of the Starkiller base when it was online).

They controlled less territory, and were not nearly as ubiquitous as the Empire was. Kylo Ren wouldn't have had anyone to practice lightsaber skills with either, on top of the fact he had been hurt by Chewbacca's crossbow

I also have a feeling next movie, Rey will encounter some difficulties training and Kylo will probably power up. Not that hard to do narratively

 

[chemicals]

To the OP's comments about Luke Skywalker.. I always understood that Luke never completed his training. For fucks sake he was having trouble with old Darth who moved slower than molasses. Remember when the prequels came out and Darth Maul and Kenobi were moving super fast and almost flying around? Luke Skywalker never got that far into his training as there were no great Jedi left to train him.

This is why I believe Luke failed when he tried to bring back the Jedi. He himself had not completed his training. In the old comic timeline he turns to the dark side of the force after failing to bring back the Jedi.

In Return Of the Jedi, Luke is calling himself a Jedi master but he really never was.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Obi Wan had the trip to alderaan to give luke some basic instructions in using the force, yes. Had Rey also blocked a few blaster shots with a blindfold after being instructed to let go and trust the force do you really believe people would be grumpy at that?

What luke does do later in the film is trust the force to guide his hands to get the killing blow on the death star. That is not particularly far fetched, he's already a skilled pilot reportedly, and he's very strong in the force. It's directly related to the skill he was being taught earlier in the film. Other pilots almost blew up the death star but just weren't lucky enough for it to go in because it was such a tight shot. Luke taking Obi Wan's advice to let go and trust his instincts (just like earlier!) gets him the +2 to his dice roll.

Rey has some fighting skills, and is also force sensitive, sure. It's ok that she's better than zero skill luke with a saber since she'd at least understand the principles involved and her reflexes should be pretty good. But Luke never randomly manifested an advanced jedi technique (the mind trick) with no setup when it was plot convenient and he'd never tried it before. He also didn't body a Dark Jedi 24 hours after departing from his farm. They're not remotely equivalent feats.

But Luke and Han were able to best Vader, who was a much better pilot than either of them.

 

[PerezDeCorcho]

To the OP's comments about Luke Skywalker.. I always understood that Luke never completed his training. For fucks sake he was having trouble with old Darth who moved slower than molasses. Remember when the prequels came out and Darth Maul and Kenobi were moving super fast and almost flying around? Luke Skywalker never got that far into his training as there were no great Jedi left to train him.

This is why I believe Luke failed when he tried to bring back the Jedi. He himself had not completed his training. In the old comic timeline he turns to the dark side of the force after failing to bring back the Jedi.

In Return Of the Jedi, Luke is calling himself a Jedi master but he really never was.

"No more training do you require. Already know you that which you need."

 

[heliosRAzi]

Expected as in likely? Nah, iirc they said it had low chances of actually working. They went all out though since they had no other choice.

People keep saying that Luke blew up an ENTIRE SPACE STATION BY HIMSELF! But blowing it up was the plan. The guy who tried earlier could've blown it up by himself if he was lucky enough. Or that asshole Porkins (pull up sooner next time!). It's not like Luke dove into the exhaust port himself and destroyed it from the inside with his manly spirit.

 

[ascii42]

Obi Wan had the trip to alderaan to give luke some basic instructions in using the force, yes. Had Rey also blocked a few blaster shots with a blindfold after being instructed to let go and trust the force do you really believe people would be grumpy at that?

What luke does do later in the film is trust the force to guide his hands to get the killing blow on the death star. That is not particularly far fetched, he's already a skilled pilot reportedly, and he's very strong in the force. It's directly related to the skill he was being taught earlier in the film. Other pilots almost blew up the death star but just weren't lucky enough for it to go in because it was such a tight shot. Luke taking Obi Wan's advice to let go and trust his instincts (just like earlier!) gets him the +2 to his dice roll.

Rey has some fighting skills, and is also force sensitive, sure. It's ok that she's better than zero skill luke with a saber since she'd at least understand the principles involved and her reflexes should be pretty good. But Luke never randomly manifested an advanced jedi technique (the mind trick) with no setup when it was plot convenient and he'd never tried it before. He also didn't body a Dark Jedi 24 hours after departing from his farm. They're not remotely equivalent feats.

Like I posted earlier

I guess we don't know whether or not Luke knew using the force to move objects was a thing before he used it to grab his lightsaber on Hoth.

That's the first time we see using the force to move objects. (Though Vader's force choke is close, I guess)

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

But Luke and Han were able to best Vader, who was a much better pilot than either of them.

Vader's force boner for luke was so strong he forgot to check his rear vision mirror. Vader was never really shown to be a great pilot in any of the OT films actually, probably because him being Luke's father wasn't initially decided at the time of making E4 and we never see him in a ship again.

Like I posted earlier

That's the first time we see using the force to move objects.

Sure, you could assume his mind trick in E6 was also an asspull and that he'd never tried before. Not sure what you get by just assuming you're correct tho? It's very logical to assume Luke had been practicing his force skills in the months between E4 and E5.

 

[mjc]

You're grasping quite a bit, OP. TFA dealt out good callbacks and did what it should have done. Re-introduce the series, and build up more mystery along the way.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

What would the story be if everything had gone as planned? Three films of dancing with Ewoks.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Vader's force boner for luke was so strong he forgot to check his rear vision mirror. Vader was never really shown to be a great pilot in any of the OT films actually, probably because him being Luke's father wasn't initially decided at the time of making E4 and we never see him in a ship again.

Obi Wan calls him the best star pilot in the galaxy

I guess from a certain point of view he may have been lol

 

[PerezDeCorcho]

What would the story be if everything had gone as planned? Three films of dancing with Ewoks.

It could have been different, perhaps. New, even?

 

[enigmatic_alex44]

Vader's force boner for luke

WOAH you know they are blood relatives right...

 

[excelsiorlef]

The Prequel trilogy was knit-picked to hell and back for good reason.

Because it was terrible from acting to green screen to characters. TFA has none of those issues.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

WOAH you know they are blood relatives right...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehEkCYjnLJ8

 

[heliosRAzi]

WOAH you know they are blood relatives right...

They're an incestuous family.

 

[Madness]

But Luke and Han were able to best Vader, who was a much better pilot than either of them.

Luke was also his son. That makes a difference. We don't know if Rey is a Skywalker. Han comes out of nowhere with his Millennium Falcon at the last second and disrupts Vader.

Also, in subsequent rewatches, Rey first even hears of the force at Maz Kanata's shop/pub, she gets a vision and then is kidnapped by Kylo Ren. In just a few hours, she not only is able to withstand Kylo's mind reading, but employ jedi mind tricks that advanced Knights and Masters do. Then she can also call Luke/Anakin's lightsaber and defeat Kylo in a duel. The duel, I can admit Rey was extremely skilled in combat with a staff and Kylo had taken a massive blaster shot to the chest which was oozing blood and he had to punch himself several times just to do anything.

Luke's success almost seems like luck in a New Hope while Rey is almost turned into Superman who can do no wrong. Finn, with all his talk of jobber, he's a loser, janitor. He seemed far more real, more interesting, more human.

 

[Astral Dog]

Oooh booyyy, i agree it takes a big shit on the Ep VI ending, but it still a cool movie.

 

[Loris146]

Vader's force boner for luke was so strong he forgot to check his rear vision mirror. Vader was never really shown to be a great pilot in any of the OT films actually, probably because him being Luke's father wasn't initially decided at the time of making E4 and we never see him in a ship again.

In rebels Vader is op( he defeats an entire squadron of enemies lol ) as a star pilote.

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

"No more training do you require. Already know you that which you need."

You don't actually believe that meant he knew everything he needed to know about the force do you?

There's *sooooooo* many ways to take that phrase if you want to be pedantic about it.

• That which you need... to beat Vader
• That which you need... to be a Jedi Knight
• That which you need... to kill the Emperor
• That which you need... to be a Jedi Master
• That which you need... to create your own Jedi Academy

They made such a big deal of Anakin being too old to train, of Luke being too old to train that to assume Yoda meant Luke's training was the most complete is absurd.

 

[Mortemis]

People keep saying that Luke blew up an ENTIRE SPACE STATION BY HIMSELF! But blowing it up was the plan. The guy who tried earlier could've blown it up by himself if he was lucky enough. Or that asshole Porkins (pull up sooner next time!). It's not like Luke dove into the exhaust port himself and destroyed it from the inside with his manly spirit.

Okay, I got you now. I agree, what he did wasn't reaching or an asspull, he had skill as a pilot and used the force to help make that sot.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Doesn't get any more disrespectful than losing the one great link to all the films...

The scene was cut. Unkar was supposed to have his arm ripped off by Chewie

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

In rebels Vader is op as a star pilote ahahaha ...

Worth watching? Never seen Rebels.

 

[Alcibiades]

Leia's tearful hug comes like 15 minutes later, and her hugging Rey instead of Chewie was a bizarre choice. .

Yeah that was a really weird moment I'm like, uh what about Chewbacca no one cares about him now LOL? Leia doesn't even know Rey I'm not sure why a hug is merited.

 

[Principate]

Because it was terrible from acting to green screen to characters. TFA has none of those issues.

So we should only knit pick bad movies that were obviously bad, rather than average to good movies... sure

 

[Hellwarden]

I pretty much agree with the OP.

The Force Awakens is not a great movie. Not even close.

But it's better than the prequels.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

It could have been different, perhaps. New, even?

It was new. It shares story elements with the OT but we've never had a stormtrooper as a protagonist before or a character like Kylo. TFA was always going to be based around reminding people why they fell in love with it in the first place and its succeeded in that regard. The reaction to it has been very positive. I expect VIII to take the story to more new places.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Yeah that was a really weird moment I'm like, uh what about Chewbacca no one cares about him now LOL? Leia doesn't even know Rey I'm not sure why a hug is merited.

I think what's bad is that she doesn't even acknowledge him. No look or anything. Chewie walks past and that's it.

 

[ghst]

there was a genuinely bigger emotional payoff when han was locked outside overnight in the cold on hoth than when he snuffed it.

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

I think what's bad is that she doesn't even acknowledge him. No look or anything. Chewie walks past and that's it.

I still think that's a goof / deleted scene more than anything else. I wouldn't read too much into it

 

[ascii42]

Yeah that was a really weird moment I'm like, uh what about Chewbacca no one cares about him now LOL? Leia doesn't even know Rey I'm not sure why a hug is merited.

That's just copying A New Hope where Chewbacca doesn't get a medal.

 

[fastford58]

The universe is not all rainbows and unicorns.

 

[heliosRAzi]

I still think that's a goof / deleted scene more than anything else. I wouldn't read too much into it

It's bad that they overlooked that, though. There's not much to read into besides they fucked it up.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

That's just copying A New Hope where Chewbacca doesn't get a medal.

Disgusting space racism, tbh.

 

[Tuck]

Ok. But, why? NOTHING is explained. I hate how we're expected to fill in the blanks ourselves. That should be the film's responsibility, not the audience's.

Luke had exactly zero lines of dialogue in the entire film.

This could be a legitimate complaint, but how bout you see where they go with it first, huh?

 

[SomTervo]

I don't disagree with many of your points either but, as you said yourself: what was the point of this?

Nothing in the original trilogy is destroyed or corrupted – just morphed slightly to fit a new vision. It's forging the next stories in the Star Wars trilogy.

I think if you went at the original trilogy with a hacksaw like this, you'd come out pissed off, too. Scrutiny leads to disappointment, disappointment leads to suffering, suffering leads to anger.

Also, everyone's jumping the gun saying 'the force is a super power in TFA' etc., but it's not. Nothing in the film states Jedi don't need training and the force is just 'magic'. It seems Rey doesn't need training - but nothing else suggests that's the norm. Everything from the previous movies still stands. Rey is clearly pegged to be a one-of-a-kind natural, a familiar with the Force - unlike possibly any other Jedi ever in history.

I'll be laughing in 2017 when Episode 8 comes out and the whole first half of the movie is Rey being trained by Luke.

Now: everyone like 'she didn't need training wtf she can just do it'
2017: 'Oh she's being trained for like three years now'

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

It's bad that they overlooked that, though. There's not much to read into besides they fucked it up.

Right. I just mean some people seem to be looking for *plot* reasons for it. It's really just a bad oversight.

 

[PerezDeCorcho]

It was new. It shares story elements with the OT but we've never had a stormtrooper as a protagonist before or a character like Kylo. TFA was always going to be based around reminding people why they fell in love with it in the first place and its succeeded in that regard. The reaction to it has been very positive. I expect VIII to take the story to more new places.

To that, I'd say it's reminded some of why the original trilogy will never be surpassed. And it literally takes almost every major plot element from IV.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I agree with everything the OP says and there is still more he has left out.

unfortunately people refuse to critically look at something with "it's a popcorn flick" "its star wars who cares" etc etc.

I was mildly entertained when I watched it, but nearly every few scenes I kept thinking, how ridiculous and stupid everything was.

200 million budget and all they could do was copy a new hope and insert fan service, not a shred of original ideas.

?

A stormtrooper going against his programming and finding his own identity.

A son taking the wrong lessons from his family's history and joins a cult, viewing his grandfather's final turn as a failing as opposed to a redemptive act.

A failed parent trying to reach out to his now indoctrinated son.

An abandoned scavenger letting go of what clings her to a shitty life and learning to look forward to a future which she can actually live her life.

Broad plot points aside of "bad guys are doing evil shit" (which is little more than an excuse to get our characters together), the narrative that this is nothing but a remake with no original ideas of its own is completely false. And even if it were, remaking a 40 year old movie foe a new generation is hardly an egregious offense on its own.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Right. I just mean some people seem to be looking for *plot* reasons for it. It's really just a bad oversight.

People are trying to say that it happened for plot reasons? I've seen people use it as one of the many reasons why the film didn't do anything for them, but not that it had plot behind it.