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[Timbuktu]

Obviously the purpose of TFA was as much to patch and avoid the pitfalls of the past as it was to build for the future. Which is actually something I admire most about it. It had every reason in the world to be an incoherent mess, but other than a question mark here or there, it was pretty damn good.

I agree that it did a difficult/ almost impossinle job very well. I just wonder how it'll feel when i show... my kids lets say and play it from episode IV to IX and ignore the prequels. You almost need a few years in between, marathoning it all might make TFA a bit awkward.

 

[Jonm1010]

Yeah, no.

This cast doesnt have a Harrison Ford or James Earl Jones but they don't have a Mark Hamill or Carrie Fisher either.

2 of the 4 main leads in Star Wars ANH were frankly, kinda weak.

There really isnt a weak link in this cast.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

He literally said this is the last day of the Republic, he knows their fleet is stationed where the Senate is. He says this strike will wipe out the Senate and fleet. There is now a massive power vacuum.

I did not say fatal. I said chaotic and power vacuum. Fatal would mean a new Empire, the failure to wipe out Leia's group, the declaration of war that that first strike represents and the loss of Starkiller base should ensure that they are not in position to just take over. It's gonna be a fight with no clear power. So unlike the OT which had an Empire and the PT which had a Republic this one should have no clear ruling group.

His exact words

Today is the end of the Republic. The end of a regime that acquiesces to disorder. At this very moment in a system far from here, the New Republic lies to the galaxy while secretly supporting the treachery of the loathsome Resistance. This fierce machine which you have built, upon which we stand will bring an end to the Senate, to their cherished fleet. All remaining systems will bow to the First Order and will remember this as the last day of the Republic!

He's making a propaganda speech full of flowery language, he's not an omniscient narrator. We see the system blow up, we can assume that most of the senators were killed (except ones that were on vacation or teleconferencing into the senate or whatever). We don't have any real information about how much of the NR fleet was destroyed. We don't know whether this one strike was what was going to "end the fleet", we can safely assume that this one strike wasn't the only one they were going to do against the NR, and that the NR wasn't literally going to be gone by the end of today.

Total power vacuum is an unlikely scenario for them to explore in a SW movie. I think what you're going to see is a return to basically what the old movies were, powerful empire attacks republic/rebels, republic/rebels launch raids to destroy superweapons or turn the tide in some key battle. Whether or not the entire fleet was destroyed in this movie will be up to the writers on the next one to decide I guess.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I don't agree with a lot of the OP but



Yeah this was kind of silly.

I think in this case Lukes Lightsaber is a special case. Owned by Anakin, used to slaughter alot of Jedi, passed on to Luke, and then lost. If the Force is something that permeates through all things, it makes sense that a lightsaber touched by powerful Jedi to have a resonating power in it that would possibly affect a maybe related individual.

After all, Kylo Ren keeps Vaders helmet as a memento, even tries to reflect upon it and question it.

 

[shoreu]

When I first saw ROTJ as a kid, I thought it was lame that there was an old dude ordering Vader around. He was a badass who could choke people with his mind.

Besides, Palpitine had a master once, remember? Darth Plagueus, whom he mentions in ROTS.

Spoiler

Hell, maybe Snoke is Plagueus.

*Possible new trilogy spoiler, though I have no insider knowledge*



Oops, thank you.

Spoiler

Damn, I was hoping it was Coruscant so maybe Jar Jar would be dead.

Sorry, I'm not 100% boned up on the new film yet.

He could be lol I've seen a lot of theory about that but Sidious would never follow him.

Also I didn't like his old ass but after reading about his power he is ridiculously powerful.

 

[Icyflamez96]

Yeah, no.

He ain't lyin. BB-8 is the best bot

 

[ryutaro's mama]

He's making a propaganda speech full of flowery language, he's not an omniscient narrator. We see the system blow up, we can assume that most of the senators were killed (except ones that were on vacation or teleconferencing into the senate or whatever). We don't have any real information about how much of the NR fleet was destroyed. We don't know whether this one strike was what was going to "end the fleet", we can safely assume that this one strike wasn't the only one they were going to do against the NR, and that the NR wasn't literally going to be gone by the end of today.

Total power vacuum is an unlikely scenario for them to explore in a SW movie. I think what you're going to see is a return to basically what the old movies were, powerful empire attacks republic/rebels, republic/rebels launch raids to destroy superweapons or turn the tide in some key battle. Whether or not the entire fleet was destroyed in this movie will be up to the writers on the next one to decide I guess.

Good points.

We also have no idea what percentage of the First Order was lost on the Starkiller Base. How many other FO systems are out there? Hell, Palpatine was building 2 Death Stars, presumably back to back.

 

[excelsiorlef]

His exact words



He's making a propaganda speech full of flowery language, he's not an omniscient narrator. We see the system blow up, we can assume that most of the senators were killed (except ones that were on vacation or teleconferencing into the senate or whatever). We don't have any real information about how much of the NR fleet was destroyed. We don't know whether this one strike was what was going to "end the fleet", we can safely assume that this one strike wasn't the only one they were going to do against the NR, and that the NR wasn't literally going to be gone by the end of today.

Total power vacuum is an unlikely scenario for them to explore in a SW movie. I think what you're going to see is a return to basically what the old movies were, powerful empire attacks republic/rebels, republic/rebels launch raids to destroy superweapons or turn the tide in some key battle. Whether or not the entire fleet was destroyed in this movie will be up to the writers on the next one to decide I guess.

That speech was exposition in the form of a Nazi speech.

He literally says will blow up their Senate and their fleet and the rest will come to their senses and bow. Now that second part won't happen entirely cause Leia will step in probably so now there will be a race for allies. Some systems will join the FO and others will join Leia. There is no governing body right now. They're all dead. That much is clear.

Until they show otherwise it's stated and shown that the Senate and its fleet goes boom. There's however no reason to believe that the FO has the power especially after losing their big weapon to just take over. It's completely logical to believe there's now galactic chaos

If we're gonna start ignoring and dismissing blatant exposition then we can't really talk about anything.

 

[borborygmus]

Care to elaborate on these dozens of asspulls?

Not directed specifically at you, but I suspect whatever I refer to as an asspull will be defended as "it's in the novels" or "it's implied that..." which is exactly what happens with any Abrams or Lindelof movie. They coast on that uncertainty.

Anyway, let's take a look at some definitions from Urban Dictionary.

Ass pull

Typically this phrase is used when someone invents data or facts to support their argument. Said another way, to "pull something out of your ass".

This can also be used to describe when, in a TV show or movie, a character comes up with a never-before-seen power just in the nick of time, therefore winning the fight. An ass pull either has a completely unbelievable explanation or the writer conveniently forgets to add one in.

The movie is full of such contortions. That's the premise of this thread, many points are mentioned in the OP.

In addition, off the top of my head:

- the sequence of events leading up to the movie is a complete contrivance, because they needed for there to be a Rebel Group (Resistance) led by Leia and an Empire (First Order) led by not-Emperor and not-Darth-Vader.

- Death Star 3.0 was only just now used for the first time. Nobody impeded its development.

- Death Star 3.0 is a hollowed out planet, but still retains the design flaw of the Death Star 1, namely a small hatch that would lead the entire thing to blow up.

- Finn is the only stormtrooper with a conscience.

- Finn was a janitor on the Death Star 3.0 and is aware of the exact nature of the design flaw of the Death Star 3.0.

- Death Star 3.0 is itself an ass pull, we don't even know if it travels at light speed, or what the consequences of draining a star are.

- Luke's light saber is in Maz's bar. But it's a "story for another time."

- Captain Phasma lowers the shields. Textbook asspull.

- Everything Rey seems to do effortlessly. "But it's implied that..." I wanted to see this character grow. I don't care about an eventual reveal because it's so painfully obvious and so convenient. Why is the meat of this movie in the past?

All of the contrived bits are intentionally left really vague, and detail is only added as demanded by the current events of the movie in order to justify them, so it's all very unconvincing.

And there's tons more where that came from, but I'd rather not write a thesis on this schlocky movie.

You know the worst thing? All of those things could have had fun explanations, but don't.

We don't have any real information about

This movie in a nutshell. JJ evaded making a real movie.

 

[MHWilliams]

I think what you're going to see is a return to basically what the old movies were, powerful empire attacks republic/rebels, republic/rebels launch raids to destroy superweapons or turn the tide in some key battle. Whether or not the entire fleet was destroyed in this movie will be up to the writers on the next one to decide I guess.

Honestly, I think you'll see something closer to the Republic/Trade Federation conflict, with two sides of equal power feuding.

Until Rey and Kylo team up an kill Snoke.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Until Rey and Kylo team up an kill Snoke.

Kylo is gonna Snoke out on his own. Dude needs to prove he is Darth Vader like Harold Miner needed to prove he was Jordan.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Also remember that the FO actually failed their ultimate goal. Leia found Luke. The
attack on the Hosnian System and Leia's camp was all in order to stop her from getting to Luke, mission failed.

 

[Adam Blue]

Honestly, I think you'll see something closer to the Republic/Trade Federation conflict, with two sides of equal power feuding.

I'm very curious what they will do, and will only have an opinion once all the movies are out.

The Republic/Separatists conflict only existed the way it did because of Palpatine. The Empire/Rebellion only existed as a response to that - the OT ended with the Emporer dead, thus restoring balance to the force: Luke becomes a non-extremist Jedi. Those 6 movies did something.

With TFA, I hate not knowing the point of The First Order and The Resistance. But like the other trilogies, it will take all 3 films.

The Force Awakens actually made me appreciate the PT trilogy a lot. They aren't "made" well, technically, but they really strengthen the lore.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

That speech was exposition in the form of a Nazi speech.

He literally says will blow up their Senate and their fleet and the rest will come to their senses and bow.

...

If we're gonna start ignoring and dismissing blatant exposition then we can't really talk about anything.

He says they will blow it up, he doesn't say the first shot will blow it up. He doesn't say the whole fleet will be gone today. He does say the republic will be gone today which is obviously an exaggeration. I'm not ignoring exposition, rather you're reading more into it than is actually made explicit. It's sufficiently vague as to be bent to whatever the next movie needs it to be. Any fleets around the capital are destroyed, we don't know what percentage of the Republic military was there. I'm not the only person who thinks this is ambiguous, compare these two Wookiepedia articles that both simply source Episode 7:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/New_Republic

It harnessed the sun's power and then destroyed the planets of the Hosnian system, including Hosnian Prime which at that time was serving as the Republic capital and hosting the Senate and one New Republic fleet.

vs

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Starkiller_Base

After gaining Supreme Leader Snoke's approval, General Hux ordered the base to fire on the capital of the New Republic, Hosnian Prime, and four other planets in the Hosnian system, utterly destroying the planets and the New Republic's fleet.

Someone earlier in the thread posted that the canon novels said that the NR had decentralized its military and left defense of star systems up to the system itself - if this was true it might be the case that the primary NR fleet was destroyed but that all of the local defense forces were in tact.

 

[The Mule]

Nothing has changed. The Rebels are still fighting the Empire. The Jedi are still on the brink of extinction. Our heroes accomplished nothing.

The Empire doesn't have to strike back because the Empire never left.

What was the fucking point?

That's life buddy.

 

[Brakke]

Also remember that the FO actually failed their ultimate goal. Leia found Luke. The
attack on the Hosnian System and Leia's camp was all in order to stop her from getting to Luke, mission failed.

That's totally silly. Their primary function isn't to kill Luke. They want to kill Luke because they think he's a threat to their ultimate objective, conquest and domination. Luke's an obstacle, not an end.

Killing the Hosnian System doesn't even get them any closer to finding Luke, nor does it really hamper the Resistance's efforts to find him. That was a goal in itself. The Republic doesn't care about Luke except that they sort of low key fund the Resistance. If their primary goal was killing Luke they'd've blasted the Resistance *first*.

 

[btrboyev]

They didn't know where their base was...

 

[ryutaro's mama]

That's totally silly. Their primary function isn't to kill Luke. They want to kill Luke because they think he's a threat to their ultimate objective, conquest and domination. Luke's an obstacle, not an end.

Killing the Hosnian System doesn't even get them any closer to finding Luke, nor does it really hamper the Resistance's efforts to find him. That was a goal in itself. The Republic doesn't care about Luke except that they sort of low key fund the Resistance. If their primary goal was killing Luke they'd've blasted the Resistance *first*.

How in the fuck would they even know if Leia was on-world?

What if she took off and they nuke the planet and don't get her?

 

[Lord of Castamere]

Also remember that the FO actually failed their ultimate goal. Leia found Luke. The
attack on the Hosnian System and Leia's camp was all in order to stop her from getting to Luke, mission failed.

I assumed the attack was issued as a preemptive measure, because the treaty was about to be officially broken. Starkiller had been found, and there were survivors from the last skirmish. It was over. The new republic would have been forcd to intervene.

 

[excelsiorlef]

That's totally silly. Their primary function isn't to kill Luke. They want to kill Luke because they think he's a threat to their ultimate objective, conquest and domination. Luke's an obstacle, not an end.

Killing the Hosnian System doesn't even get them any closer to finding Luke, nor does it really hamper the Resistance's efforts to find him. That was a goal in itself. The Republic doesn't care about Luke except that they sort of low key fund the Resistance. If their primary goal was killing Luke they'd've blasted the Resistance *first*.

And this is why I don't buy some of you folks who are demanding more exposition. You don't even pay attention to the existing exposition. I didn't say their primary function I said their primary goal in this movie.

1) A post of mine from another thread

Literally after they escape with Jakku with BB-8 on The Falcon there is a scene in Snoke's chamber where he is pissed that the droid is going to get to The Resistance because they'll find Luke and Luke will come back and re-establish the Jedi order, up until that point they'd been operating quietly, now and Snoke literally says this:"Our strategy must change" that;s when Hux says the weapon is ready and they decide to blow up the Senate, that was their plan B, because now everyone knows they exist, they committed an act of war that exposed them for what they are in order to try and stop the Resistance form getting to Luke, they are that terrified of him.

And then after Ren fails to acquire BB-8 because he thinks Rey is enough and she escapes they go to yet another chamber conversation where Hux reems out Ren for not getting BB-8 as well and tells SNoke that the droid is probably in the hands of the Resistance, And thus Snoke declares and again I quote "The Resistance must be destroyed before they get to Skywalker"

Amazing that you missed two blatant expository sit and talk scenes that spell out exactly that the quest to finding Luke is the centre of everything.

Why they tell Ren to not let his personal feelings interfere is that Snoke and The First Order would settle for destroying BB-8 and thus stopping Leia from finding Luke even if it meant never finding him themselves, something Ren doesn't want, he wants to find Luke,

The ends result is Snoke and The First Order are terrified that they will find Luke bring him home and he'll re-start the Jedi order. They were so terrified that they blew up the fucking Senate to send a message (and to block off any Republic support that Leia might call for) and thus exposing themselves and then put their entire weapon at risk by targeting Leia directly,

It was all to stop them from finding Luke. They literally say it twice, like not even implied but flat out said twice in plain english during giant exposition scenes, they attack the Republic so as to weaken the Resistance so that they can stop them before they reach Skywalker (literally paraphrasing Hux here) and then they try to launch on The Resistance base because if they don't wipe them out fully right away they will get to Skywalker. Everything they do is about stopping them from getting to Luke, because they don't want the new Jedi to rise.


Tl;dr the entire movie takes great pains to paint finding Luke as terribly important and the reason everything that happens in this movie happens. He is set up as the ultimate fear of Snoke and The First Order and they are willing to do whatever it takes to stop Leia and co from getting to him. In short Luke is the ultimate badass in this movie and all he had to do was stand on a cliff and facial act the shit out of his one scene.

2) They didn't know where the Resistance base was until they tracked the recon ship Leia sent out to get the detais on Starkiller base back to her home base. So that's why they didn't fire on them first.

Neither side knew where each other were in the Galaxy until TFO fired on the Hosnian system

 

[Brakke]

And this is why I don't buy some of you folks who are demanding more exposition. You don't even pay attention to the existing exposition. I didn't say their primary function I said their primary goal in this movie.

1) A post of mine from another thread



2) They didn't know where the Resistance base was until they tracked the recon ship Leia sent out to get the detais on Starkiller base back to her home base. So that's why they didn't fire on them first.

Neither side knew where each other were in the Galaxy until TFO fired on the Hosnian system

That's a whole lot of words to clarify a clear misunderstanding about their primary goal vs their primary goal *in this movie*. If that's a distinction you wanna make then sure, I get you.

 

[excelsiorlef]

That's a whole lot of words to clarify a clear misunderstanding about their primary goal vs their primary goal *in this movie*. If that's a distinction you wanna make then sure, I get you.

Well I mean that's the only reason they fired on the Hosnian system. Stopping them from finding Luke was their first priority in all the decisions they made in this movie. Ergo they failed their ultimate goal and lost Starkiller in the process.

And the post is also for the benefit of others who somehow keep missing those long exposition chamber scenes.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Yeah the First Order is more concerned about the wherabouts of Luke Skywalker than taking out the Republic. Remember that speech Hux gave the legions of Stormtroopers about destroying Skywalker?

Neither do I.

I saw it that the First Order (led by Hux) wanted to settle up with the New

Spoiler

Power Generation

Republic.

Snoke and Kylo Ren (and more specifically Ren) wanted to find Skywalker. In fact, when Hux mentions to Snoke it is imperative they use the main weapon, Snoke sorta tells him, yeah ok fine. Hux runs off and Snoke continues the conversation he is having with Ren.

Hux and Snoke/Ren aren't align on priorities at all.

 

[Ashhong]

How about a few, at least? So I know what's going on?

If you honestly think no questions were answered and you had no idea what was going on in this movie then you should just stop watching movies.

Yeah the First Order is more concerned about the wherabouts of Luke Skywalker than taking out the Republic. Remember that speech Hux gave the legions of Stormtroopers about destroying Skywalker?

Neither do I.

I saw it that the First Order (led by Hux) wanted to settle up with the New

Spoiler

Power Generation

Republic.

Snoke and Kylo Ren (and more specifically Ren) wanted to find Skywalker. In fact, when Hux mentions to Snoke it is imperative they use the main weapon, Snoke sorta tells him, yeah ok fine. Hux runs off and Snoke continues the conversation he is having with Ren.

Hux and Snoke/Ren aren't align on priorities at all.

I remember a scene where Hux says that Snoke gave orders to have BB8 destroyed if needed, but Ren demands that they get the droid unharmed so he can find Luke. Seems Ren was the only one really obsessed with finding Luke.

 

[MHWilliams]

That's totally silly. Their primary function isn't to kill Luke. They want to kill Luke because they think he's a threat to their ultimate objective, conquest and domination. Luke's an obstacle, not an end.

Killing the Hosnian System doesn't even get them any closer to finding Luke, nor does it really hamper the Resistance's efforts to find him. That was a goal in itself. The Republic doesn't care about Luke except that they sort of low key fund the Resistance. If their primary goal was killing Luke they'd've blasted the Resistance *first*.

It wasn't Hux's primary goal, but it is Snoke's. In the novelization, Snoke is really flippin' afraid of Luke being found for whatever reason. And Snoke gives the marching orders, so yeah.

 

[Brakke]

Right. Clearly Hux is only tangentially interested in Luke. Snoke is too poorly defined at this point. It's crazy if he built the Order for the purpose of killing Luke but I guess it kind of works if he saw the Order happening anyway, high-jacked it, and then just sort of detached-ly let Hux carry on while he siphoned off resources (Phasma's battalion) to direct toward his Luke project.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I remember a scene where Hux says that Snoke gave orders to have BB8 destroyed if needed, but Ren demands that they get the droid unharmed so he can find Luke. Seems Ren was the only one really obsessed with finding Luke.

Yup.

Ren was the one out there chasing maps, droids and force sensitive heroines. Hux didn't a fuck about all that shit. He was on Starkiller base prepping for the salty runback.

 

[Brakke]

Related: what the heck is Hux's age? He seems young enough that he probably was born after Endor, or certainly wasn't a member of the Imperial military during Endor. He's not that much older than Finn. He clearly owns the Stormtrooper Indoctrination Project but it must predate him, no?

 

[MHWilliams]

Right. Clearly Hux is only tangentially interested in Luke. Snoke is too poorly defined at this point. It's crazy if he built the Order for the purpose of killing Luke but I guess it kind of works if he saw the Order happening anyway, high-jacked it, and then just sort of detached-ly let Hux carry on while he siphoned off resources (Phasma's battalion) to direct toward his Luke project.

Yeah, Snoke is too ill-defined, so the First Order's motivations are largely whatever you get out of the actions of Hux and Ren.

I'll find the exact lines in the novelization about Luke eventually. It's towards the end.

EDIT: Here it is (Ileenium is where the Resistance base is).

Snoke replied with cold satisfaction. “We do not need it. Prepare the weapon. Destroy their system.”
Collected and composed as he was, Hux was not immune to surprise. “The system? Supreme Leader, according to the most recent galographics, at least two and possibly three habitable worlds circle Ileenium. Following the destruction of the Hosnian worlds, would it not be worthwhile simply to destroy their base and claim the remainder for the Order? We will have the location of the base within a matter of hours and—”
Snoke cut him off. “We cannot wait. Not even for hours. Hours that may permit as little as one ship to depart with the information that will allow them to find Skywalker. That would be one ship too many. The more time we give them, the more likely the chance, however slight, that they will find Skywalker and convince him to return to challenge our power. As soon as the weapon is fully charged, I want the entire Ileenium system destroyed.”

The novelization is pretty solid and worth a read.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Related: what the heck is Hux's age? He seems young enough that he probably was born after Endor, or certainly wasn't a member of the Imperial military during Endor. He's not that much older than Finn. He clearly owns the Stormtrooper Indoctrination Project but it must predate him, no?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hux

All I could find.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Yeah the First Order is more concerned about the wherabouts of Luke Skywalker than taking out the Republic. Remember that speech Hux gave the legions of Stormtroopers about destroying Skywalker?

Neither do I.

I saw it that the First Order (led by Hux) wanted to settle up with the New

Spoiler

Power Generation

Republic.

Snoke and Kylo Ren (and more specifically Ren) wanted to find Skywalker. In fact, when Hux mentions to Snoke it is imperative they use the main weapon, Snoke sorta tells him, yeah ok fine. Hux runs off and Snoke continues the conversation he is having with Ren.

Hux and Snoke/Ren aren't align on priorities at all.

So you're going to ignore the specific scenes where Snoke explicitly states that both attacks are to stop Skywalker from coming back and establishing a new era of Jedi?

Snoke is the boss. Where Snoke and Ren differ is that Snoke would happily settle for destroying the map if it meant keeping it out of Leia's hands and Ren wants to find Luke no matter what, but regardless of that the weapon is used both times in the name of stopping the return of Luke. Look up I literally quote the damn movie saying so.

Btw my guess is that they had hoped to find the map and then launch on that planet with Starkiller wiping out Luke.

It wasn't Hux's primary goal, but it is Snoke's. In the novelization, Snoke is really flippin' afraid of Luke being found for whatever reason. And Snoke gives the marching orders, so yeah.

And unlike somethings you don't need the book you just need to watch the two Snoke/Ren/Hux chamber exposition scenes

Yeah, Snoke is too ill-defined, so the First Order's motivations are largely whatever you get out of the actions of Hux and Ren.

I'll find the exact lines in the novelization about Luke eventually. It's towards the end.

Snoke isn't super developed but he makes the reasons behind his decisions in this movie quite clear.

 

[Lothars]

You know the worst thing? All of those things could have had fun explanations, but don't.

This movie in a nutshell. JJ evaded making a real movie.

You know the worst thing is most of your points are pretty poor. It seems like the points you and the OP are trying to make is alot of yelling I didn't like that or didn't understand it.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

So you're going to ignore the specific scenes where Snoke explicitly states that both attacks are to stop Skywalker from coming back and establishing a new era of Jedi?

Snoke is the boss. Where Snoke and Ren differ is that Snoke would happily settle for destroying the map if it meant keeping it out of Leia's hands and Ren wants to find Luke no matter what, but regardless of that the weapon is used both times in the name of stopping the return of Luke. Look up I literally quote the damn movie saying so.

Btw my guess is that they had hoped to gind the map and then launch on that planet with Starkiller wiping out Luke.

Snoke and Ren have their own agenda. Hux had his own as well, which is evidenced by his desire to fire on the Republic. Snoke doesn't seemed nearly all that concerned with what Hux wants to do and continues talking to Ren about Skywalker.

I don't remember Snoke telling anyone to blow up Leia's planet to stop them from finding Luke or whatever. I also don't remember him telling anyone beisde Ren that Skywalker is a person of interest.

He certainly never tells Hux in the movie that Skywalker is the primary objective of the FO.

 

[kIdMuScLe]

Can someone explain to me why Poe just left the planet instead of looking for BB8 after crashing? It doesn't make sense that he just disappears knowing that BB8 is still there. I guess the map wasn't that important... =/

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Can someone explain to me why Poe just left the planet instead of looking for BB8 after crashing? It doesn't make sense that he just disappears knowing that BB8 is still there. I guess the map wasn't that important... =/

IRL, he was originally killed off in the script. JJ liked Issac and he was brought back later in the film. I'm sure the book has a better explanation.

 

[borborygmus]

You know the worst thing is most of your points are pretty poor. It seems like the points you and the OP are trying to make is alot of yelling I didn't like that or didn't understand it.

There is no "it" to understand. It's an empty husk that coasts on tropes, fanservice and nostalgia.

This was the exact concern before the movie came out, due to JJ's past work, and it ended up being true.

 

[Brakke]

Can someone explain to me why Poe just left the planet instead of looking for BB8 after crashing? It doesn't make sense that he just disappears knowing that BB8 is still there. I guess the map wasn't that important... =/

All Star Wars planets are apparently like 100 square miles so maybe he searched the whole thing.

But by the time he got anywhere he might find a ship, the Order's bounty on Finn & Rey & BB-8 was probably common knowledge already. Kanjiklub and Welsh Dude had heard of it. Poe probably figured out pretty quickly that BB-8 was off planet.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Snoke and Ren have their own agenda. Hux had his own as well, which is evidenced by his desire to fire on the Republic. Snoke doesn't seemed nearly all that concerned with what Hux wants to do and continues talking to Ren about Skywalker.

I don't remember Snoke telling anyone to blow up Leia's planet to stop them from finding Luke or whatever. I also don't remember him telling anyone beisde Ren that Skywalker is a person of interest.

He certainly never tells Hux in the movie that Skywalker is the primary objective of the FO.

So then you didn’t pay attention. I say again

Literally after they escape with Jakku with BB-8 on The Falcon there is a scene in Snoke's chamber where he is pissed that the droid is going to get to The Resistance because they'll find Luke and Luke will come back and re-establish the Jedi order and Snoke literally says this:"Our strategy must change" that;s when Hux says the weapon is ready and they decide to blow up the Senate, that was their plan B, because now everyone knows they exist, they committed an act of war that exposed them for what they are in order to try and stop the Resistance form getting to Luke, they are that terrified of him.

And then after Ren fails to acquire BB-8 because he thinks Rey is enough and she escapes they go to yet another chamber conversation where Hux reems out Ren for not getting BB-8 as well and tells Snoke that the droid is probably in the hands of the Resistance, And thus Snoke declares and again I quote "The Resistance must be destroyed before they get to Skywalker"


Literally in the most expository scenes in the movie. Literal quotes.

And I never said the FO was established to find Luke, that's dumb, I said their actions in this movie were all about finding Luke or stopping Leia at any cost from finding him.

 

[munchie64]

There is no "it" to understand. It's an empty husk that coasts on tropes, fanservice and nostalgia.

This was the exact concern before the movie came out, due to JJ's past work, and it ended up being true.

For something so based on nostalgia, it seems to be doing pretty well with people new to the series. At least they don't care about stuff like where Luke's lightsaber comes from.

 

[Lothars]

There is no "it" to understand. It's an empty husk that coasts on tropes, fanservice and nostalgia.

This was the exact concern before the movie came out, due to JJ's past work, and it ended up being true.

You really seem to have no clue I am not surprised.

 

[MHWilliams]

And then after Ren fails to acquire BB-8 because he thinks Rey is enough and she escapes they go to yet another chamber conversation where Hux reems out Ren for not getting BB-8 as well and tells Snoke that the droid is probably in the hands of the Resistance, And thus Snoke declares and again I quote "The Resistance must be destroyed before they get to Skywalker"

Literally in the most expository scenes in the movie. Literal quotes.

Oh, I remember that part now.

 

[borborygmus]

For something so based on nostalgia, it seems to be doing pretty well with people new to the series. At least they don't care about stuff like where Luke's lightsaber comes from.

Such is the formula devised by Disney for this movie. This is a well marketed and cleverly designed product, but not so much a legitimate film.

Abrams and Lindelof movies rely on the moviegoers' suspension of disbelief coming from faith that what they are watching checks out, so every effort is made to divert their attention to the next thing before they realize the thing they just witnessed didn't make sense.

This works for various groups of people: unfamiliarity with the source material means they wouldn't know that what they just saw doesn't make sense; others will suspend their disbelief due to nostalgia; kids might not look into things too deeply; for people who do know the source material, they need to suspend their disbelief because the next crazy thing is about to happen so they'll take the current thing on faith in order to keep up, although they later discover that nothing checks out at all (hence this thread).


edit:

You really seem to have no clue I am not surprised.

You need to develop thicker skin. We don't need to have the same opinions on movies.

 

[Brakke]

When you say "act of war", what do you mean? The've only done action on Jakku (a place nobody cares about, where the only powerful person we know is already in league with them) and Maz's. Maz's place is a bar for pirates and outlaws and scoundrels. Striking there wouldn't elicit Republic response I don't think and it didn't reveal their whereabouts to the Resistance.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

So then you didn’t pay attention. I sayvagain

Literally after they escape with Jakku with BB-8 on The Falcon there is a scene in Snoke's chamber where he is pissed that the droid is going to get to The Resistance because they'll find Luke and Luke will come back and re-establish the Jedi order and Snoke literally says this:"Our strategy must change" that;s when Hux says the weapon is ready and they decide to blow up the Senate, that was their plan B, because now everyone knows they exist, they committed an act of war that exposed them for what they are in order to try and stop the Resistance form getting to Luke, they are that terrified of him.

And then after Ren fails to acquire BB-8 because he thinks Rey is enough and she escapes they go to yet another chamber conversation where Hux reems out Ren for not getting BB-8 as well and tells Snoke that the droid is probably in the hands of the Resistance, And thus Snoke declares and again I quote "The Resistance must be destroyed before they get to Skywalker"


Literally in the most expository scenes in the movie. Literal quotes.

And I never said the FO was established to find Luke, that's dumb, I said their actions in this movie were all about finding Luke or stopping Leia at any cost from finding him.

What are you trying to re-explain? Hux doesn't seem aligned with Snoke/Ren as evidenced by his speech. For him, this shit is personal with the NR. His priorities are paying back the NR. He seems to have always been angling for an opportunity to do this and shit going sideways give him an in for that.

Like Bob Morton in Robocop when the plan with ED-209 fucked up for Dick Jones. Doesn't change the fact that Hux had his own priorities as Snoke had his.

Give me one quote where Hux even mentions giving a single shit about Skywalker.

 

[munchie64]

Abrams and Lindelof movies rely on the moviegoers' suspension of disbelief coming from faith that what they are watching checks out, so every effort is made to divert their attention to the next thing before they realize the thing they just witnessed didn't make sense.

I really don't think that's true at all and I have no idea why you keep mentioning Lindelof in the first place.

 

[borborygmus]

I really don't think that's true at all and I have no idea why you keep mentioning Lindelof in the first place.

Abrams put the blame for LOST (Abrams + Lindelof) and Star Trek: ITD (Abrams + Lindelof) on Lindelof before TFA came out, implying that the concerns that I talked about earlier didn't apply to him and the then upcoming TFA. It may have been in this video, but I can't watch it right now in order to check. The gist of it is that he says to take it up with Damon Lindelof, and not him.

Since TFA turned out the way that it did, and observing the same pattern in Prometheus, a movie with a Lindelof script (and no involvement by Abrams), it's pretty fair to say that Abrams and Lindelof are of the same school of thought when it comes to movie making.

 

[Brakke]

It's not really usefully true to call Prometheus "a Lindelof script". That script was a messy hodgepodge that a bunch of people touched. Lindelof himself doesn't really stand by it as a reflection of his intent.

 

[excelsiorlef]

What are you trying to re-explain? Hux doesn't seem aligned with Snoke/Ren as evidenced by his speech. For him, this shit is personal with the NR. His priorities are paying back the NR. He seems to have always been angling for an opportunity to do this and shit going sideways give him an in for that.

Like Bob Morton in Robocop when the plan with ED-209 fucked up for Dick Jones. Doesn't change the fact that Hux had his own priorities as Snoke had his.

Give me one quote where Hux even mentions giving a single shit about Skywalker.

Hux ain't in charge so I don't really care if he has ulterior motives because he'd never fire without Snoke's permission and Snoke only gives it because he's terrified of Skywalker returning. But sure here's the quotes

Snoke: The droid will soon be delivered to the Resistance leading them to the last Jedi. If Skywalker returns, the new Jedi will rise.

Hux: Supreme Leader I take full responsibility...

Snoke: General! Our strategy must now change.

Hux: The weapon. It is ready. I believe the time has come to use it. We shall destroy the government that supports the Resistance. The Republic. Without their friends to protect them, the Resistance will be vulnerable. And we will stop them before they reach Skywalker

Snoke: Go oversee preperations.

Hux: Yes, Supreme Leader

Snoke: There has been an awakening have you felt it?

Ren: Yes.

Snoke: There's something more, the droid we seek is aboard the Millennium Falcon....

That's Scene 1


Scene 2
After Ren fails to extract the map from Rey's mind but before she escapes.

Snoke : This Scavenger resisted you.

Ren: She's strong with the force. Untrained but stronger than she knows.

Snoke: And the droid?

Hux: Ren believed it was no longer valuable to us. That the girl, was all we needed. As a result the droid has most likely been returned to the hands of the enemy. They may have the map already.

Snoke: Then the Resistance must be destroyed before they get to Skywalker.

Hux: We have their location. We tracked their reconnaissance team to the Ileenium System.

Snoke: Good. Then we will crush them once and for all.

Ren: Supreme Leader I can get the map from the girl. I just need your guidance.

Snoke: If what you say about this girl is true. Bring her to me.

And then immediately after Rey escapes so Rey's force connection is established right before she uses the JMT (added bonus info)


So in conclusion this shit is clear as day.

 

[borborygmus]

It's not really usefully true to call Prometheus "a Lindelof script". That script was a messy hodgepodge that a bunch of people touched. Lindelof himself doesn't really stand by it as a reflection of his intent.

Maybe so, Lindelof's work on LOST is enough to make the claim that I made. There are numerous examples of both Abrams and Lindelof using a barrage of unearned plot devices in their work, yet Abrams pinned that on Lindelof before TFA came out.

I'm simply responding to:

I really don't think that's true at all and I have no idea why you keep mentioning Lindelof in the first place.

tl;dr: I am referring to a movie-making approach that I think JJ Abrams and Damon Lindelof both use. It doesn't have a name. Lindelof's name may come up when referring to it. Please get over my mention of Damon Lindelof.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Hux ain't in charge so I don't really care if he has ulterior motives because he'd nrver fire without Snoke's permission

1) I never said Hux was in charge so I have no idea why you even said that.

2) Nothing you posted refuted what I said about Hux having his own personal agenda of wanting to destroy the Republic. His speech aligns to him wanting to destroy the Republic. Him presenting that solution to Snoke is no different than Bob Morton telling the Old Man that he has a plan that can work in the face of Dick Jones' failure. It's not different. Hux is seizing opportunity.

I honestly have no idea what you are arguing.