Support NeoGAF

[LifEndz]

It doesn't. At all. People just love sales threads because it is a nice setting for console warzzz with plausible deniability.

I will say this though, it is curious to me just how far ahead the PS4 is. The difference doesn't seem in proportion to what each console offers. PS4 is 2:1 because of better marketing during the buildup and slightly better resolution on multiplats? Seems to me the XB1 had a better 2015 in terms of games and features, but it hasn't made much of a difference.

I guess I'm just really out of touch with the average consumer and how they use their consoles. I would think that most people who had an online presence with the 360 would choose an XB1 just for the continuity with their profile and friends list.

It's whatever though, the new MS does learn from it's mistakes, and I have high expectations for the next xbox.

So it's selling better because of marketing at just a slightly higher resolution and not because of what each console offers?

 

[Primethius]

Well sales don't matter for us because there's not much we can do we the data, they do matter for the companies and partners involved because they can change things.
Though for a lot sales data are enjoyable stats, it's not a console warzzz thing for most people.

I agree with that. As an consumer, the sales data (or rather, sales themselves) affect us but we can't do much about it. Aside from perhaps attributing sales and other such data to why certain things happen.

 

[Outrun]

So basically Xbox One is selling well.

Enough to justify production of quality exclusives over the next several years. And that's all I care about. It's a nice console, with great controller options (I use the Elite), and some really good games.

Console wars are boring to me, and I don't care which one sells more or less. I own all of them, and I try to buy the best games for each. Multiplats get bought for whichever console has the best version (often PS4 these days), OR if the versions are the same or very close, then for the console with the best controller (Xbox One). Heck, WiiU apparently sold worse than all the others, and yet it's been the source of some of the best games I've played.

Yep,

I often get the feeling that these "sales discussions" are merely fanboy warz with a thin veneer of civility.

18 million aint bad for MS. Do they want 40 million? Sure. But that it too late for them now.

 

[Mr Git]

It doesn't. At all. People just love sales threads because it is a nice setting for console warzzz with plausible deniability.

I will say this though, it is curious to me just how far ahead the PS4 is. The difference doesn't seem in proportion to what each console offers. PS4 is 2:1 because of better marketing during the buildup and slightly better resolution on multiplats? Seems to me the XB1 had a better 2015 in terms of games and features, but it hasn't made much of a difference.

I guess I'm just really out of touch with the average consumer and how they use their consoles. I would think that most people who had an online presence with the 360 would choose an XB1 just for the continuity with their profile and friends list.

It's whatever though, the new MS does learn from it's mistakes, and I have high expectations for the next xbox.

Is this post intentionally ironic? If so it's top tier.

It's entirely possible to be interested in sales data and discussion without any surreptitious ulterior motives. It'd just be much easier to discuss if MS were less coy.

 

[Pathfinder]

So basically Xbox One is selling well.

Enough to justify production of quality exclusives over the next several years. And that's all I care about. It's a nice console, with great controller options (I use the Elite), and some really good games.

Console wars are boring to me, and I don't care which one sells more or less. I own all of them, and I try to buy the best games for each. Multiplats get bought for whichever console has the best version (often PS4 these days), OR if the versions are the same or very close, then for the console with the best controller (Xbox One). Heck, WiiU apparently sold worse than all the others, and yet it's been the source of some of the best games I've played.

It's not that I don't agree with you, but a sales thread probably isn't the best place to express this emotion.

 

[RibMan]

20 million, let alone anything higher, makes absolutely no sense.

Instead of going ahead with something dropped on a windows podcast by "someone close to microsoft" who heard something from an "internal source" that she can't verify, maybe we can just use actual numbers and a bit of common sense.

20M sold through, that would mean at the very least 21M shipped. 1M extra is really a bare minimum.

The only solid number we have for shipment comes from MS's FY year report for the second quarter of the XB1's life (ending March 2014), and that was 5.1M shipped total. This would mean that they've shipped ~16M XB1 since then. Keep in mind that during their investor call in April 2014, they mentioned a channel inventory drawdown because of excess supply.

During that period and until March 2015, they've shipped 13M XB1+360. So the only way you can imagine they've shipped that many XB1 would be that they've basically barely shipped any 360, which is really not believable for a second. For the same period (april to March) a year prior to that they've shipped 6.5M 360, down from 10M.

They were also at "almost 10M shipped" in mid-November 2014, which means that:
- a significant portion of what they've shipped (10.1M between April and December) was 360 consoles.
- they'd need to have shipped another 11M since then, which would be up ~100% YoY.


Now if we move onto actual sales, the XB1 was at 9.7M as of November 2015 in the US. That would likely put them at 11.2M December included, or thereabout.
So the question is, where are the remaining 9M? First, it would mean that the US share is at ~55%, significantly down from the 60% at launch. But major markets have at best kept the same pace than the US, and it's been slowing down in many others. Second, that would mean that they sold 7.5x their launch (Nov-Dec 13) numbers in RotW, compared to the known 5.2x in the USA. That's just not possible.

And then we have these figures:
France 420k as of Dec 14
Germany 380k as of March 15
Japan 64k as of now
Spain 80k as of June 15

The remaining markets are much, much smaller ones than France or Germany, and there's really no indication that the XB1 (and the brand in general) is performing well in these markets.

Excellent post.

It's very clear that in order for the Xbox One to have sold-through 18 million units and more, it would have had to perform exceptionally well in territories that no one has ever heard of. The Xbox brand is a non-starter in smaller markets, so it goes without saying that the 'activated consoles' metric should have a whole lot of asterisks next to it. It simply reeks of misinformation.

 

[eerik9000]

So the question is, where are the remaining 9M?

Well, you completely forgot to mention the United Kingdom. Should be around 1.5 to 2 million there, if not more.

 

[Game Guru]

Excellent post.

It's very clear that in order for the Xbox One to have sold-through 18 million units and more, it would have had to perform exceptionally well in territories that no one has ever heard of. The Xbox brand is a non-starter in smaller markets, so it goes without saying that the 'activated consoles' metric should have a whole lot of asterisks next to it. It simply reeks of misinformation.

Well, it's just not the US that XB1 sells decently in. XB1 also sells decently in the UK. That being said, when PS4 has sold a million units in the Middle East which isn't even a major market like France or Germany, and the XB1 has absolutely no presence there and also sells less than that in France and Germany combined, that is a huge issue for the viability of the Xbox brand outside of the US and UK.

 

[FuturusX]

So basically Xbox One is selling well.

Enough to justify production of quality exclusives over the next several years. And that's all I care about. It's a nice console, with great controller options (I use the Elite), and some really good games.

The numbers continue to show how weak the Xbox brand is as global product. It's selling relatively well in two specific regions but continues to underperform badly elsewhere. Microsoft is in their third generation in the console business without significant success in that regard. That's a real concern.

Gamers care about games not sales, right? Well yes you can't play sales figures, but ultimately they tell us how healthy the platform is and the types of games and experiences we are likely to expect.

Platform sales success and failure shape our experiences as gamers whether we choose to acknowledge that or not, that reality persists.

 

[Raist]

Well, you completely forgot to mention the United Kingdom. Should be around 1.5 to 2 million there, if not more.

I didn't forget it, the thing is that we haven't had an update since it passed 1M. It's probably above 2M but we never got confirmation. Even being generous and putting it at 2.5, that's 6.5M missing. Everyone knows it's doing OK in the UK. the point is that it's tanking everywhere else, so these figures definitely show that a 20M or more sold through is crazy.

 

[ethomaz]

I didn't forget it, the thing is that we haven't had an update since it passed 1M. It's probably above 2M but we never got confirmation. Even being generous and putting it at 2.5, that's 6.5M missing. Everyone knows it's doing OK in the UK. the point is that it's tanking everywhere else, so these figures definitely show that a 20M or more sold through is crazy.

It was close to 1.6m in May... I don't believe it is close to 2.5m now... it is close to 2m IMO.

PS4 is possible over 2.5m.

 

[The Artisan]

PS3 wasn't out when Xbox 360 launched.

right, at that time there were no competing consoles to compare it to so why would that really matter?

I said at launch. PS3 launched 10 months later than 360. So, since launch and until 10 months later, X360 was the most powerful console in existence. And even after PS3 launched, many multiplatform games looked better on X360 because of its beefier GPU and easier to develop for architecture.

that's what I was thinking but why would that even matter though if the 360 hadn't had its competition come into the market yet?

 

[etta]

The numbers continue to show how weak the Xbox brand is as global product. It's selling relatively well in two specific regions but continues to underperform badly elsewhere. Microsoft is in their third generation in the console business without significant success in that regard. That's a real concern.

Gamers care about games not sales, right? Well yes you can't play sales figures, but ultimately they tell us how healthy the platform is and the types of games and experiences we are likely to expect.

Platform sales success and failure shape our experiences as gamers whether we choose to acknowledge that or not, that reality persists.

I wonder if they will refocus the next Xbox to target just the regions where they do well in, or if they will invest an incredible amount into keeping the global target while making it more viable than with the XBO.
Because they don't have to target it globally, right? Not all products are meant to be global.

 

[rakkadakka]

It's entirely possible to be interested in sales data and discussion without any surreptitious ulterior motives. It'd just be much easier to discuss if MS were less coy.

It's possible but not what happens in sales threads.

 

[Ricker]

Not bad numbers I guess...of course they probably wont ever catch up to the 360 numbers(and the PS4 this gen) but IMHO,now that I have a X1 and as a long time XBox Live Gold member,the service is still better then PSN...new XBox Experience is so much better in its layout and all...keep it up MS.

 

[FuturusX]

It's possible but not what happens in sales threads.

It's a mix. There are some that are genuinely interested in the relative success of the platforms and how this could shape future published software. Whilst there are others whom use them as a chance to stir the flames of "console wars".

GAF and its sales threads are pretty varied, people just tend to focus on the negative...when it truth there is a lot of both.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

It doesn't. At all. People just love sales threads because it is a nice setting for console warzzz with plausible deniability.

I wouldn't say that is the reason people love sales threads, but sales threads are definitely taken advantage of by many to revile and fap off to their fanboyisms.

The numbers continue to show how weak the Xbox brand is as global product. It's selling relatively well in two specific regions but continues to underperform badly elsewhere. Microsoft is in their third generation in the console business without significant success in that regard. That's a real concern.

Gamers care about games not sales, right? Well yes you can't play sales figures, but ultimately they tell us how healthy the platform is and the types of games and experiences we are likely to expect.

Platform sales success and failure shape our experiences as gamers whether we choose to acknowledge that or not, that reality persists.

Is it really a concern? The xbox has never been popular globally and still manages to sell well enough - even good - for MS to remain in the console business. The United States is looked upon negatively by much of the world, so it shouldn't be a surprise if, internationally, people are more prone to side with a different brand. This isn't some new revelation in my opinion.

However, even if the xbox is nothing more than an advertisement for Microsoft name recognition, it probably serves the company quite well. The console business draws in people at a young age, far more than their other hardware and software products. Microsoft's place in the console market instills familiarity at a time when Microsoft Office isn't exactly on a kid's wishlist/radar. The 360 finished strong enough last generation, enough to think that, without the early debacles with the Xbox One, it would be doing a lot better than in its current state today. If you're suggesting or insinuating that the failures of the Xbox One means Microsoft should jump ship, I'd declare you batshit crazy.

 

[FuturusX]

I wonder if they will refocus the next Xbox to target just the regions where they do well in, or if they will invest an incredible amount into keeping the global target while making it more viable than with the XBO.
Because they don't have to target it globally, right? Not all products are meant to be global.

I'd argue that it has to be global product. It's sold at a near loss to enable profit from accessories, software licensing and network services. Volume is key.

Shareholders like a product that demonstrates growth, especially in new markets. I don't think the Xbox brand can afford to exist without attempting to solve that problem, not long term.

 

[Celestial Mortal]

If you round like they do in the article, it is 1:1.

Those guys are pretty much failing their college or did fail if they are rounding anything past or equal to .5 to backwards.

 

[Primethius]

I wonder if they will refocus the next Xbox to target just the regions where they do well in, or if they will invest an incredible amount into keeping the global target while making it more viable than with the XBO.
Because they don't have to target it globally, right? Not all products are meant to be global.

I would argue that the XB1 isn't even a global product personally. It's a product targeted heavily at the US market (I would point to the whole focus on TV early on as proof of this) that just happens to be sold on a global level.

I'm not sure how much just focusing on one or two markets is viable, especially the US, as that market isn't exactly growing (pretty sure it's contracting). But I suppose if MS sets goals accordingly and targets the US/UK market only alongside a PC push, it might work?

Edit: The goals is the key part here. As in, set goals low.

 

[ps3ud0]

I wonder if they will refocus the next Xbox to target just the regions where they do well in, or if they will invest an incredible amount into keeping the global target while making it more viable than with the XBO.
Because they don't have to target it globally, right? Not all products are meant to be global.

If they have any intention to still produce a console for a worldwide audience it makes sense to start canvassing now in this generation. That should give us an indication, though MS launching a non-global console after 3 generations doesnt seem sensible, even if they made multiple ham-fisted attempts in the past.

Considering how well theyve marketed to Mexico why cant they just extrapolate that approach to other countries.

ps3ud0 8)

 

[etta]

I'd argue that it has to be global product. It's sold at a near loss to enable profit from accessories, software licensing and network services. Volume is key.

Shareholders like a product that demonstrates growth, especially in new markets. I don't think the Xbox brand can afford to exist without attempting to solve that problem, not long term.

Except it doesn't have much room for that. Xbox Two would have to be more powerful and cheaper than PS5, and even then it wouldn't gain any ground in parts of Europe and Asia. Even if it'd somehow get all the Japanese games, I'd bet PlayStation would still outsell it by quite a margin.

If they have any intention to still produce a console for a worldwide audience it makes sense to start canvassing now in this generation. That should give us an indication, though MS launching a non-global console after 3 generations doesnt seem sensible, even if they made multiple ham-fisted attempts in the past.

Considering how well theyve marketed to Mexico why cant they just extrapolate that approach to other countries.

ps3ud0 8)

They can just target the Americas, UK, some countries like Germany and France, and for the rest of the world they can just make it really easy to import if you want one. Buy it directly from them, minimum shipping costs and direct currency conversion, no hassle. OS will have language support since it's Windows 10.

 

[joecanada]

Well sales don't matter for us because there's not much we can do with the data, they do matter for the companies and partners involved because they can change things.
Though for a lot sales data are enjoyable stats, it's not a console warzzz thing for most people.

Sales absolutely matter to "us". You think there would be the landslide of announcements like TLG and FF7 at Sony conference, other such things, unless they felt that they had the resources to open up projects? Companies look at their safe investment first then if they are doing well they may delve into some side projects with high risk/ high reward.
If Sony was struggling all the way the outlook on actual games would be very different.
I bet they lose money on TLG but the hype and goodwill may make the project itself profitable in the end.
I'm still not cheering them on all along the way but you certainly want top quality support for a product you bought

 

[modalife]

Not bad numbers I guess...of course they probably wont ever catch up to the 360 numbers(and the PS4 this gen) but IMHO,now that I have a X1 and as a long time XBox Live Gold member,the service is still better then PSN...new XBox Experience is so much better in its layout and all...keep it up MS.

Im always curious about this.

Ive been with XBL for almost 6 years, and less than a year with PSN. Ive yet to notice a difference in quality, and I do a lot of multi-player.

So, how is XBL better than PSN?

 

[semiconscious]

I wonder if they will refocus the next Xbox to target just the regions where they do well in, or if they will invest an incredible amount into keeping the global target while making it more viable than with the XBO.
Because they don't have to target it globally, right? Not all products are meant to be global.

depends on the size of the consumer base needed to justify the expense of providing the product. if 1/2 the non-nintendo console gamers in u.s. & u.k. = large enough base/profit, i suppose ms could go that route. tho, long-term, it'd seems unlikely...

 

[Gamezone]

I heard that the Xbox 360 never made Microsoft any profit. How can Xbox One do so then?

 

[hawk2025]

Im always curious about this.

Ive been with XBL for almost 6 years, and less than a year with PSN. Ive yet to notice a difference in quality, and I do a lot of multi-player.

So, how is XBL better than PSN?

There is no appreciable difference, save for some longer outages IMO.

 

[ISee]

I heard that the Xbox 360 never made Microsoft any profit. How can Xbox One do so then?

What?
Where?

Edit: Because of PROD?

 

[etta]

Sales absolutely matter to "us". You think there would be the landslide of announcements like TLG and FF7 at Sony conference, other such things, unless they felt that they had the resources to open up projects? Companies look at their safe investment first then if they are doing well they may delve into some side projects with high risk/ high reward.
If Sony was struggling all the way the outlook on actual games would be very different.
I bet they lose money on TLG but the hype and goodwill may make the project itself profitable in the end.
I'm still not cheering them on all along the way but you certainly want top quality support for a product you bought

It's nice to know something sells well but it doesn't matter to you in the sense that you can't control anything. The companies and their partners have a hand in the pot, so it matters to them because they have control over factors. You on the other hand cannot do anything with the information/data, you're only a bystander/observer.

 

[Gamezone]

What?
Where?

Edit: Because of PROD?

Just some random vlogs on Youtube. Some guys said that both the original Xbox and Xbox 360 didn't earn Microsoft profit. I don't know if it's true.

 

[serversurfer]

20 million, let alone anything higher, makes absolutely no sense.

Instead of going ahead with something dropped on a windows podcast by "someone close to microsoft" who heard something from an "internal source" that she can't verify, maybe we can just use actual numbers and a bit of common sense.

20M sold through, that would mean at the very least 21M shipped. 1M extra is really a bare minimum.

The only solid number we have for shipment comes from MS's FY year report for the second quarter of the XB1's life (ending March 2014), and that was 5.1M shipped total. This would mean that they've shipped ~16M XB1 since then. Keep in mind that during their investor call in April 2014, they mentioned a channel inventory drawdown because of excess supply.

During that period and until March 2015, they've shipped 13M XB1+360. So the only way you can imagine they've shipped that many XB1 would be that they've basically barely shipped any 360, which is really not believable for a second. For the same period (april to March) a year prior to that they've shipped 6.5M 360, down from 10M.

They were also at "almost 10M shipped" in mid-November 2014, which means that:
- a significant portion of what they've shipped (10.1M between April and December) was 360 consoles.
- they'd need to have shipped another 11M since then, which would be up ~100% YoY.


Now if we move onto actual sales, the XB1 was at 9.7M as of November 2015 in the US. That would likely put them at 11.2M December included, or thereabout.
So the question is, where are the remaining 9M? First, it would mean that the US share is at ~55%, significantly down from the 60% at launch. But major markets have at best kept the same pace than the US, and it's been slowing down in many others. Second, that would mean that they sold 7.5x their launch (Nov-Dec 13) numbers in RotW, compared to the known 5.2x in the USA. That's just not possible.

And then we have these figures:
France 420k as of Dec 14
Germany 380k as of March 15
Japan 64k as of now
Spain 80k as of June 15

The remaining markets are much, much smaller ones than France or Germany, and there's really no indication that the XB1 (and the brand in general) is performing well in these markets.

This is a very solid argument. I'm interested to see if anyone has anything by way of rebuttal beyond the "lol Non-US sales aren't zero!" strawman that typically gets trotted out at this point.

Just to have other platforms as a comparison point :

Sony previously stated that 90% of all PS4s are connected online.

I would fair to venture 90% seems about right for Xbox as well.

Actually, it's likely to be much higher for the Bone, given the number of people who still think you need to connect it to the Internet to make it work and the fact that you actually do.

Make that 17.999 millions mine basically red ringed. Thank you Microsoft, quality product once again.

You bought a thousand Bones and they all died? Damn, dude, that's harsh. /comfort

So basically Xbox One is selling well.

Enough to justify production of quality exclusives over the next several years. And that's all I care about. It's a nice console, with great controller options (I use the Elite), and some really good games.

Actually, Phil said recently that Bone isn't selling well enough to justify the production of quality exclusives, and going forward, most or all Microsoft Studio games will be coming to Windows 10 (proper). Even games like Scalebound and Quantum Break would be sim-shipping on Windows if it wasn't already too late to make them multi-platform.

"In order for us to realize what we want to realize, the financials have to work. This is why at certain times, when people will push on, ‘Hey, should Xbox console games go to PC? Why are you guys focusing on Windows?’—People have to step back and see that the more games we sell, the more people who are buying games on Xbox Live, the better the business is and the more we can invest in it. For Xbox fans, it creates more opportunity."
He's saying the Bone audience isn't large enough to support games like this on their own, so they'll be coming to PC.

"In the case of things like Scalebound or Crackdown or Quantum Break, you know, just to be completely honest with you, we started those games before we really looked at expanding into Windows in the way that I wanted to bring as part of becoming head of Xbox.
"Going to those teams mid-cycle and saying: ‘Hey, by the way, I want to add a platform,’ didn’t really feel like necessarily the best way to end up with the best result for the game. They had a path that they were on. It’s not to say those games could never come to Windows, but right now we’re on the path to finish the great games that they’ve started, and I want that to be the case. These games are on a path, whereas with, like, Halo Wars 2 I had the opportunity from the beginning, when we’re sitting down with the studio, to say, ‘Here’s the target. Here’s what we wanna go do.’
So, those games really shouldn't be exclusive, but it was already too late. Phil am cry.

 

[Bluenoser]

The longer this thread gets, the bigger the number gets.

I was thinking that through reading the first 4 pages. It went from 18 million to 20 mil to 20-22. Sales GAF works both ways.

 

[Purest 78]

Im always curious about this.

Ive been with XBL for almost 6 years, and less than a year with PSN. Ive yet to notice a difference in quality, and I do a lot of multi-player.

So, how is XBL better than PSN?

It's not from my personal experience 90% of games run on the same 3rd party servers . If I'm not mistaken ps3 had more exclusives that had dedicated servers vs 360. How halo never had Dedicated servers on 360 with all that live money I'll never know.

 

[...Scatter...]

I heard that the Xbox 360 never made Microsoft any profit. How can Xbox One do so then?

It's did. Lots of profit at the end of the generation. RROD did put a major hurting on them though.

Im always curious about this.

Ive been with XBL for almost 6 years, and less than a year with PSN. Ive yet to notice a difference in quality, and I do a lot of multi-player.

So, how is XBL better than PSN?

In my personal opinion: game & party chat. Profiles. Messaging and Smartglass. That's just MY opinion though.

 

[Bgamer90]

Actually, Phil said recently that Bone isn't selling well enough to justify the production of quality exclusives, and going forward, most or all Microsoft Studio games will be coming to Windows 10 (proper). Even games like Scalebound and Quantum Break would be sim-shipping on Windows if it wasn't already too late to make them multi-platform.

"In order for us to realize what we want to realize, the financials have to work. This is why at certain times, when people will push on, ‘Hey, should Xbox console games go to PC? Why are you guys focusing on Windows?’—People have to step back and see that the more games we sell, the more people who are buying games on Xbox Live, the better the business is and the more we can invest in it. For Xbox fans, it creates more opportunity."
He's saying the Bone audience isn't large enough to support games like this on their own, so they'll be coming to PC.

"In the case of things like Scalebound or Crackdown or Quantum Break, you know, just to be completely honest with you, we started those games before we really looked at expanding into Windows in the way that I wanted to bring as part of becoming head of Xbox.
"Going to those teams mid-cycle and saying: ‘Hey, by the way, I want to add a platform,’ didn’t really feel like necessarily the best way to end up with the best result for the game. They had a path that they were on. It’s not to say those games could never come to Windows, but right now we’re on the path to finish the great games that they’ve started, and I want that to be the case. These games are on a path, whereas with, like, Halo Wars 2 I had the opportunity from the beginning, when we’re sitting down with the studio, to say, ‘Here’s the target. Here’s what we wanna go do.’
So, those games really shouldn't be exclusive, but it was already too late. Phil am cry.

Eh, I'm pretty sure this was the plan all along even before the Xbox One was released. The 360 had a decent number of games that were just console exclusive too. The plan makes sense considering MS has both Windows and Xbox to push obviously.

Game sales on both consoles (PS4 and Xbox One) show that many people who are buying these systems only care about the console space anyway (and not PC gaming too) since many of the top selling games are multiplatform.

 

[serversurfer]

Eh, I'm pretty sure this was the plan all along even before the Xbox One was released. The 360 had a decent number of games that were just console exclusive too. The plan makes sense considering MS has both Windows and Xbox to push obviously.

I would actually disagree with your first statement, and offer the other two in support of that. lol

Luring people towards the console used to be the strategy when they thought it was a good way to increase user lock-in and profits. As they painfully discovered at the beginning of this generation, console users aren't nearly as locked in as MS may have hoped, and they'd make more selling Windows stuff digitally than they'd get as a platform fee on a disc.

Furthermore, MS just aren't very competitive in this space; their biggest success was with the slowest-selling console of its generation — despite a one-year head start and seemingly with the full backing of everyone from publishing to journalism — and their follow-up effort isn't even selling well enough to make first-party, big-budget exclusives viable. They've realized the console business is a waste of time and money for them, and they are now retreating back to Windows as quickly as they can without damaging the XBox brand, because they think the good feelings still associated with Live will help strengthen their offerings in the mobile and desktop spaces. If their console business was considered significant, they would report its performance to their shareholders, but instead we get the XBox data which is relevant to their business, MAU, and they've already got as much of that on Windows as they do on both consoles put together. And that's just after a few months. Consoles will continue to be less and less relevant for them in very short order. We don't get Apple TV numbers because it's "a hobby." We don't get Vita numbers because it's "a legacy product." We don't get XBox numbers because [they aren't really even worth discussing and only becoming less so].

Anyway, I'm pretty sure the original plan for Bone was the fulfillment of the long-term plan for XBox; to serve as a Trojan Horse for getting Windows in to your living room. Since it turned out that the living room invasion came primarily though mobile anyway, that makes the console even less relevant, so they're making it in to "just another Windows box" while they wait for people to slowly realize they may as well buy an actual Windows box if they want that. Once that finally happens, they can stop producing all of this basically valueless hardware.

Spoiler

Not that they're producing much… /rimshot

Game sales on both consoles (PS4 and Xbox One) show that many people who are buying these systems only care about the console space anyway (and not PC gaming too) since many of the top selling games are multiplatform.

Sorry, but I'm not really sure what you're getting at here. The best-selling games tend to be available on a lot of platforms… and that says something regarding PC/console crossover? =/

 

[N.Domixis]

Im always curious about this.

Ive been with XBL for almost 6 years, and less than a year with PSN. Ive yet to notice a difference in quality, and I do a lot of multi-player.

So, how is XBL better than PSN?

probably the placebo effect from last gen, they believe its better so it becomes better.

 

[joecanada]

It's nice to know something sells well but it doesn't matter to you in the sense that you can't control anything. The companies and their partners have a hand in the pot, so it matters to them because they have control over factors. You on the other hand cannot do anything with the information/data, you're only a bystander/observer.

It's not nice to know something sells well, that had nothing to do with my post. It's nice to know that a product you bought and hopefully enjoy will continue to be supported. It's nice to know that you will continue to get good quality games.
It's the same as if terminator 2 sells 300 millions, I don't control it but I celebrate that there will likely be a terminator 3, even if it sucks lol.
This whole thread is about bystanders / observers. Who claimed otherwise? And we can still send mail, tweets, etc requesting remakes, PSN support, psplus games, etc which they will consider based on feasibility or marketability. Feasibility is correlated with profits.

 

[Grinchy]

probably the placebo effect from last gen, they believe its better so it becomes better.

And a lot of people who used to make that argument may have actually thought that all XBL games had dedicated servers. I can't tell you how many times someone I knew IRL told me they preferred Xbox because of dedicated servers.

 

[Outrun]

There is no appreciable difference, save for some longer outages IMO.

You have stated the difference...

 

[darkinstinct]

Excellent post.

It's very clear that in order for the Xbox One to have sold-through 18 million units and more, it would have had to perform exceptionally well in territories that no one has ever heard of. The Xbox brand is a non-starter in smaller markets, so it goes without saying that the 'activated consoles' metric should have a whole lot of asterisks next to it. It simply reeks of misinformation.

So you are saying they are lying to their investors?

This might be the explanation for overall sales:

http://gearnuke.com/xbox-one-sells-better-ps4-latin-america-2014/#

 

[serversurfer]

And a lot of people who used to make that argument may have actually thought that all XBL games had dedicated servers. I can't tell you how many times someone I knew IRL told me they preferred Xbox because of dedicated servers.

And not allowing cross-platform play helps keep nonsense like that alive; if you could play directly against PSN players, that'd pretty much prove Live isn't magically good. That lingering belief is why Live MAU was what Nadella decided was worth salvaging from the XBox project and reporting to his shareholders.

I'd expect to see cross-platform play offered between PC and XBox though, Powered by Live, of course; Steam purchasers need not apply.

 

[DeepEnigma]

probably the placebo effect from last gen, they believe its better so it becomes better.

Pretty much this.

At this point, it is whatever you tell yourself.

It is the same territory as 'friends', 'controller', and 'no games'.

 

[omonimo]

Im always curious about this.

Ive been with XBL for almost 6 years, and less than a year with PSN. Ive yet to notice a difference in quality, and I do a lot of multi-player.

So, how is XBL better than PSN?

Me neither. Maybe in US territory offer some extra service? Because I haven't clear what XBL offer of better.

 

[slavesnyder]

(...)
Anyway, I'm pretty sure the original plan for Bone was the fulfillment of the long-term plan for XBox; to serve as a Trojan Horse for getting Windows in to your living room. Since it turned out that the living room invasion came primarily though mobile anyway, that makes the console even less relevant, so they're making it in to "just another Windows box"(...)

The whole post was a classy wrap up.
Just wanted to add that the trojan horse they feeded and stroked for so long got cut off it's legs with the 180 they had to make. Always online and mandatory kinect were a dataminer's dream.
Didn't Yussuf explain with immense pride how easy it would be to analyse consumers for target ads like never before? This was scary and cringe-worthy at the same time, mixing up B2B and B2C messages in the worst way. I remember kinect enhanced ad clips were planned, too.

(not that the target advertising level we already have everywhere isn't scary enough...)

 

[Kayant]

Excellent post.

It's very clear that in order for the Xbox One to have sold-through 18 million units and more, it would have had to perform exceptionally well in territories that no one has ever heard of. The Xbox brand is a non-starter in smaller markets, so it goes without saying that the 'activated consoles' metric should have a whole lot of asterisks next to it. It simply reeks of misinformation.

Well it isn't because it's not official or from MS. This is from an "unverified" source.

 

[bishoptl]

How come this matters?

Does this discussion concern you?

 

[kavanf1]

I heard that the Xbox 360 never made Microsoft any profit. How can Xbox One do so then?

Aside from the RROD disaster, which seems to have cost them up to $2bn, the main reason it took so long for MS to make any money last gen was because, upon release, the 360 was on a par with a high end PC, and the components cost a lot. Consequently they sold each console at a loss and placed a high reliance on software sales to be profitable. Sony were in a similar position with the PS3.

Whereas this gen, both MS and Sony created consoles on a par with a mid range PC from about 2011, therefore components were comparatively much cheaper than the previous gen, and both are able to sell at cost or close to it. (Not sure how much that applies after repeated discounts on the X1 though.)

 

[Bgamer90]

Pretty much this.

At this point, it is whatever you tell yourself.

It is the same territory as 'friends', 'controller', and 'no games'.

Ehh... "No games" sure/definitely. (In real life) Friends can definitely sway things for someone as well as controller preference so I wouldn't put those in the "what I tell myself" category.

Xbox Live and PSN is pretty fine/equal this gen in terms of service (though it seems like PSN is down for a longer period in comparison to when XBL is down). I prefer playing multiplayer games on Xbox though due to the system's features (which thus makes me feel that it's a better console for multiplayer games). It doesn't have to do with the Xbox Live service itself though.

 

[The Artisan]

Im always curious about this.

Ive been with XBL for almost 6 years, and less than a year with PSN. Ive yet to notice a difference in quality, and I do a lot of multi-player.

So, how is XBL better than PSN?

maybe the fact that 1st party xbone exclusives have dedicated servers?