Do you have ANY evidence whatsoever for your outlandish claims or are you just trying to shit up the thread by assuming your weirdo version of events is fact?
Germany: Merkel disgust at New Year gang assaults
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Do you have ANY evidence whatsoever for your outlandish claims or are you just trying to shit up the thread by assuming your weirdo version of events is fact?
SpoonyBard
Banned
What does this has to do with anything. The article said 3 suspected.
And even then, I think the police officer was talking about general, not those events.
The problem with the left, it's always someone else's fault.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Well that's the issue with even well-intentioned cover ups - now I have no idea how to process this police response.
Yeah right. Several months ago the majority of people here were screaming 'racism' and 'islamophobia' regarding Canada's selective immigration policy of starting out with only women and children refugees for the first wave. You think those people are gonna come out of the woodwork to make retractions on those statements?
The European governments covering this stuff up and victim blaming is a symptom of the overzealous chants of racism made towards people with legitimate concerns.
You made your bed folks.
SpoonyBard
Banned
If you're confused about this, I haven't said anything about the events in Germany. I'm as shocked and disgusted as anyone.
Ayato Kanzaki
Member
Words are lacking me to describe the disgust you inspire me.
What happened is very previsible. A bunch of youths together. It is well known that the group effect tend to bring down the intelligence of individuals, as well as lower inhibitions. Add a lack of female companionship for some time, alcohol, a cultural context in their country of origin where women have less rights than men, and the feeling that the german population doesn't really want them there. Of course incidents where going to happen. And by finding excuses to the perpetrators, you're not only encouraging them to keep going, but also twisting the knife for the victims.
Ah my mistake too then. I thought you were arguing the hundreds of women in Cologne were racists colluding to lure men into raping them.
yeah.. you have not heard anything about that and you are victim blaming pretty hard.
Mr. Giggles
Member
just a small piece of clarification, the selective process gave priorities to families first, women and children second and single men last.
Further, coming out of a war zone, being the only survivor of your family and being male is very plausible, thus the policy was prejudiced in a sense
NumberThree
Member
Yeah but what if SpoonyBard is actually a right wing troll trying to make left wingers look bad
You never know
You never know
RubberJohnny
Banned
I suppose Rotherham was right wing kids baiting paedos, by your logic.
They've scurried back to their holes. I have noticed quite a few names that were in that thread and previous threads about the migrants, when it all started off (the cheerleaders have completely disappeared). Now they are absent in recent migrant threads. Why? Because their arguments are tired old leftist talking points. Points that are getting holes blown through them at every turn.
I'm not sure how that makes the statement better. He's basically saying that girls have to behave differently now because of foreigners.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Maybe I hate all political parties equally? Well, that would be impossible.
I was one of them. I still have the same view - that the fundamentally right thing would be to take refugees in. That said, I can't deny that my views have changed twofold:
1- I think the number does matter. There might be some sort of finite point at which a nation cannot sustain immigrant influx. Where that point is though, I can't say.
2- I think that I undersold the cultural differences present in these immigrant populations. I don't think this a condemnation of the overall group, nor do I think assimilation is impossible. That said, I can't deny that there are obstacles that must be overcome here that I potentially did not account for.
I'm okay re-assessing my views here, but I would guess that you and myself would still disagree in form and substance as to how to overcome these obstacles.
FF Seraphim
Member
Have you read this yet?
Swedish Police, Accused of Cover-Up, Look Into Reports of Sexual Assault at Festival
This whole thing is crazy.
I feel like these events will lead to compromises concerning women's safety and women's rights, in Europe. Which is really unfortunate and scary. If the options are trying to locate immigrants committing crimes, within a pool of 1 million, or just telling women to be more careful and don't go out at night, many are going to want to go with the easiest option (with fewer political ramifications) and call it a day.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Yeah, other police officers have said the same... maybe they think is a temporary situation, as only maybe 25-35% of asylum seekers are said to get an asylum in Finland. And as families seem to have some priority, that doesn't look like good odds for single young men. Especially if they have trouble adjusting.
(I don't really want to be called a fascist today, but what the hell. I think we should cherry pick all asylum seekers with good education and give them full citizenship if they act nice for few years. Especially if they come from Iraq, which used to be relatively civilized country. We need more tax payers.)
It would be interesting to see how many of those who was for this mass, uncontrolled immigration changed their minds after recent news, and if so, to what extent. I know that my brother, who was celebrating Merkel just a few months ago, is now second guessing her actions in light of these recent events.
Overall a post that perfectly sums up this entire ordeal. From german media being slow to cover it, to victim blaming, to a mayor telling women to dress differently and to general apathy towards this news, in addition to plethora of damage control and attempts to control the narrative.
You practically nailed the situation, even though that was not your intention. Maybe its a troll, maybe you actually believe this. But you summed it all up.
I don't think anyone is against this. Highly educated people, those with skill sets, etc. should always be welcome.
Opening the floodgates and waving everyone in is the wrong thing to do if you don't have the plan figured out though. What should these governemtns do instead? If I knew, I'd be the one in office.
Certainly, but in a situation like this there needs to be priority levels. It's very unfortunate for some people, but it is not Canada's (or any other country's) obligation to turn their nation upside-down like this. (Although, thankfully Canada, where I live, has not)
Also, one of my big concerns was assimilation. Simply opening the floodgates and allowing people in unchecked is dangerous, especially when they're coming from a place that is rife with misogyny and homophobia. Being a gay man, this is a real concern for me, even if many other think of it as being silly. We now know that some of these men are willing to go around in public and commit acts of rape and sexual assault. Who on Gaf is going to stand up and take responsibility if they begin killing gay people too?
I know this is an extreme scenario, but after the months of blind "racism" shit-posting in so many threads, it starts to get under your skin.
I've read your posts in this thread and you've been very reasonable. Of course nobody knew for sure that this would happen, and I believe that most people had their heart in the right place. However, I think people on here just need to calm down sometimes and really consider what the other person is trying to convey.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
This is ridiculous. Whether you personally believe this to be true or not, you should feel bad for even typing it.
Mr. Giggles
Member
I agree with you completely especially on the bolded bits.
I think right now that both those on the far left and far right have muddied any reasonable discussion on a considerable way forward
ClosingADoor
Member
I know a ton of people have called you crazy already, but what the hell is this? You blame far right people of making up stuff... and combat that with making op crazy theories of yourself? You are doing the exact same thing you say are wrong! Baiting Arab men? Planning all kinds of things? Fabricated stories of rapes and assaults? What the hell are you going on about.
You should be ashamed of even coming up with that theory. This is the reason why women do not report sexual assault, because they are afraid they get blames and not taken serious like you are doing here.
Except that a lot of stories coming out now are not made up. There are about a dozen cities now that have reported large amounts of sexual assault that did not happen before.
Great temporary solution. Please do not walk outside in a skirt for some time while we just wait out this wave of sexual assault. That is not any better!
jimbobsmells
Member
This is totally disgusting of the highest order. God forbid the men involved were actually really shitty people, no no no it was the women they were all sluts, right? They were asking for it, right?
Fuck off with that shit.
ForgottenProdigy
Banned
This is tin foil plate armor at this point. Women baiting men to rape them?
Hope the ban is permanent, that was just disgusting.
Harry Stewart
Member
From what I've heard from people living there, places like Belgium and the Netherlands aren't as gay-friendly as they used to be, mainly due to influx of immigrants from cultures where it isn't tolerated. Public assaults are increasingly common and public displays of affection are discouraged in some areas.
Bad form Spoony, real bad form.
ClosingADoor
Member
While I wouldn't say it is really dangerous, there are some instances of violence towards gay people and Jewish people - one being at the recent new years actually.
And our mayor in Amsterdam thinks we won't have problems like Cologne here. His reason: "In Amsterdam it is clear that you should be kind to each other." Well, ok then...
It really has been a long time since Amsterdam has had a decent mayor.
ClosingADoor
Member
Considering the same political party has delivered the mayor since World War 2 now, that is not that surprising. Maybe we'll see someone new next time, now that the political parties have shifted a bit here at the latest elections.
Although I must say, I feel like police presence has increased and are quicker to respond in my area lately - which was just declared one of the worst of the city.
first case in my hometown now.
http://www.morgenweb.de/region/mann...f-frauen-in-heidelberg-und-weinheim-1.2594680
the article talks about 3 attacks on women. one on a 17 year old in a disco, another one in a bar and one in a tram while the woman was looking for a seat.
all of the guys are walking free for now if I understand the article correct, because the police has to investigate more.
http://www.morgenweb.de/region/mann...f-frauen-in-heidelberg-und-weinheim-1.2594680
the article talks about 3 attacks on women. one on a 17 year old in a disco, another one in a bar and one in a tram while the woman was looking for a seat.
all of the guys are walking free for now if I understand the article correct, because the police has to investigate more.
dapperbandit
Banned
https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=waffenschein, pfefferspray&cmpt=q&tz=Etc/GMT-1
German google searches for pepper spray (in red) and firearm licenses (blue)
My stance was very pro-refugees. It still is somehow pro, but now with a lot of "against" to digest.
I still don't understand how the police reaction has been so weak, especially since the terrorist threat was still on the cards in this period. How can police stand and do nothing in Cologne? Also, how did the groups of criminals organize to practically do the same thing in multiple cities in different countries? Why there are so few arrests? Why are there still people from Morocco and Algeria even on the list of asylum seekers?
There is the need for a strong answer in this case. All the people involved in this must be deported as an example for the others.
I still don't understand how the police reaction has been so weak, especially since the terrorist threat was still on the cards in this period. How can police stand and do nothing in Cologne? Also, how did the groups of criminals organize to practically do the same thing in multiple cities in different countries? Why there are so few arrests? Why are there still people from Morocco and Algeria even on the list of asylum seekers?
There is the need for a strong answer in this case. All the people involved in this must be deported as an example for the others.
QuicheFontaine
Member
There "might" be? What is the uncertainty here?
I mean, hasn't Germany been flat out saying it can't sustain the current rate of migrant influx? Haven't they been asking other European countries to "step up" and "take their fair share". Didn't we have a redistribution program for Italy and Greece?
I don't think there's any "might" about it any more.
Doczu
Member
https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=waffenschein, pfefferspray&cmpt=q&tz=Etc/GMT-1
German google searches for pepper spray (in red) and firearm licenses (blue)
Regarding the pepper spray: i've read some articles since i think november that there were many shortages of pepper spray in Germany and that people started ordering online from neighbouring countries.
Chittagong
Gold Member
It's simple really. The lefties inviting the immigration boom never thought through the practicalities. Discussion on how to manage crime and integration problems was stifled, it was seen as racist to suggest we might see a wave of sexual crimes, petty crimes, terrorism, welfare abusers and unemployment.
The left promoted the high education levels in Syria, the comptibility of Syrian culture with the west, the humanitarian mission to help people. Judging by the comments I see within my Facebook friends (mostly lefties), they are genuinely shocked and disappointed that a large number of immigrants are misbehaving, and not employing themselves by setting up cool new districts with funky ethnic restaurants and music.
We are just in the beginning of the discussion that should be had before announcing open house. From there we can begin to set up procedures, policies, changes in legislation, resource the forces requiring more manpower etc.
Sorry, I stopped reading here. You're not as smart as you think when you formulate the issue in this way. Nor is solving any issue by putting the discussion into a me vs. them.
ClosingADoor
Member
In my feed, most aren't commenting on the events in Cologne but do link towards the attacks against immigrants. Pretty anecdotal of course, but still strange to me they ignore one part and not the other.
It is kind of true though. Maybe we shouldn't just call out "the left" on this, but there was definitely a lack of planning and a realistic look at the dangers by the people in charge. I can't really blame regular people for not thinking of those things - I'm sure I'm just as guilty of overlooking important stuff in all kinds of discussions and situations - but for the organisations and politicians we should expect better.
GeordieMark
Member
I agree, it wasn't hard to see that mass unchecked immigration was asking for trouble. It was naive in the extreme to think that everyone who was allowed entry to Europe would be eternally grateful. The left have truly dropped an almighty clanger here, and have seriously damaged their own credibility with a lot of voters.
No, the left should be called out, just as the right should when they go too far.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Not attempting to solve any issue really here, just giving my opinion which might be wrong or right. My view is that
1 - The current immigration boom has been significantly accelerated by the social democratic / liberal / centre establishment, especially their public announcements of how EU will take everyone. As a figure head, Finnish PM even annouced giving his house to the immigrants.
2 - There was no proper discussion or policy making on how many immigrants countries actually can manage to take and properly accommodate, or afford, before said announcements.
3 - There was no proper discussion or policy making of how we integrate people coming from very, very different cultures, generally disagreeable to many of the things we hold dear, and how we would deal with problems before said announcements.
In my opinion only.
Rocky_Balboa
Member
I've heard that too. Also in Finland, self-defense spray (menthol-spray, not pepper) sales have gone through the roof.
ClosingADoor
Member
Must be nice having enough houses to just give away. Meanwhile this crisis impacts the working class the most in both the short term - safety, taxes - and the long term - more cheap labor on the job market.
Winnie the Pimp
Member
Whenever i see people wondering (myself included) how it was possible that the powers in charge could be so naive and just "let things happen" without wondering about possible complications etc. i can't help but think sometimes that maybe they knew exactly what they were doing. I mean, it's even harder to believe that top class politicians who are usually extremely intelligent and cunning would simply mutate to these naive individuals all of a sudden, and lose all their combined perspective.
I can't tell you WHY they'd do this, it's just a thought after all, but my gut tells me it's probably more to their advantage than to the average citizen's...
See, to this post I can answer.
There was no proper discussion because politicians from all the political range ignored the problem until it became too big to ignore it and after that it switched to extreme positions "no refugees vs. welcome refugees" without actually acknowledging the challenge. Even now here the discussion is "the stupid left vs. the racist right" and about political parties and how "my party" is smarter than "your party" and so on.
People in this thread are almost happy that some poor women had to endure these things just to prove their political party right and the others wrong. See how fucked up the whole discussion is?
And I'm stepping out of it now.
I still don't understand how was the police so unprepared. What if there was a terrorist there?
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