So they should support Bernie and roll the dice to see if he wins or loses and determine their existence as governmental service or see if they to the way of ACORN.
Sanders calls Planned Parenthood part of the Political Establishment he's taking on
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So they should support Bernie and roll the dice to see if he wins or loses and determine their existence as governmental service or see if they to the way of ACORN.
This is what I'm worried about though. Will the truth help Bernie if most of the people who care enough to find it are already Bernie supporters? Optics are important because democracy is about majority rule. Just think about how Obama's gun control initiatives are receiving huge pushback despite most of the policies being things most people support in polling.
boiled goose
good with gravy
I dont understand your response...
It does not seem to address any of my claims.
I didn't say they should endorse Bernie...
(Though as others have said, he ranks higher on PP scorecard) .
Dude Abides
Banned
Could someone explain to me why when PP or HRC endorses Clinton it's the establishment influencing the political process (clearly A Very Bad Thing) but when Bernie's campaign takes money from a credit union association, a trial lawyer's association, and labor unions it is somehow not the establishment trying to influence politics?
I think you already know the answer to that one.
Actually it does, look at Obama and gun control. He still can't escape from "they cling to their guns and their bibles" and that happened like 7 years ago.
you know the answer already my friend.
Do we want a president that insults organizations or individuals even if he doesn't mean it? What about dealing with foreign nations?
Trying to reach consensus and pass important legislation with Democrats as well as repbliblicans.
The Presidency is not some kingship that will let Bernie get everything he wants done without working with others.
And that includes working with the Establishment he has campaigned against.
Fenderputty
Banned
I thought that PP made an unprecedented primary endorsement of Hillary Clinton
The first time in the organization's 100-year history that Planned Parenthood Action Fund has endorsed a candidate in a primary.
They have a history of staying out of the process
This didn't, in any way, answer my question.
Both the nicest and most dispicable organizations should be held to the same standards.
Not for nothing but you just *named* PP and HRC but made generic references to the others.
That's a gaffe that hurt Obama with the opposition. Republicans can't credibly trot this out against Bernie. And Democrats who aren't actively running against him wouldn't hold to this, they'd obviously give him the benefit of the doubt.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Yes?
The president really can't do much other than attempt to influence the public to support his/her political ideas. He can't legislate, and anything he proposes needs to get by Congress first. If he's bad at expressing his ideas and prone to making poorly phrased remarks (as he is), that's not a good sign.
His ideas are big, and in some cases, very complex. He needs to be an incredibly strong speaker to convey those ideas to the public (like, Obama tier level of speaker), and he's not, and stuff like this just keeps reinforcing that. The opposition will just walk all over his ideas and create the narrative they want around them.
So yea, stuff like this does reflect on his ability to lead.
boiled goose
good with gravy
I would agree any organization supporting Bernie is playing politics.
Two important differences. Bernie does have higher unique small individual donations.
And IMPORTANTLY. bernie is campaigning to end this system. So if the groups donating to Bernie are powerful, they are doing so against there own interests.
As i have said, i haven't supported either candidate, however there is definitely a difference here.
DataStream
Member
I'm not really sure how anyone who actually listened to the interview would get the idea he has any vendetta against HRC or PP.
I'm not sure why this matters. Would Republicans just ignore something like this?
Fenderputty
Banned
When you're position is so fierce you forget that maybe some of the establishment doesn't need attack, we have a problem.
No, but do you really think he'd do any better against them? He can barely handle a kid's gloves fight without giving up unforced errors.
boiled goose
good with gravy
I agree this statement was bad politics.
Cymbal Head
Banned
If the meme that comes out of this story is "Bernie said something mean about Planned Parenthood, even if it was an accident," then the Clinton campaign has already done its job.
This whole situation is such a tempest in a teapot.
I'm saying we should understand this for what it is, a politically-motivated attack, and treat it as such rather than falling over ourselves to say "Bernie dun fucked up." Or do you think that we should also entertain Republicans when they try to score points by going on about Benghazi?
This whole situation is such a tempest in a teapot.
I'm saying we should understand this for what it is, a politically-motivated attack, and treat it as such rather than falling over ourselves to say "Bernie dun fucked up." Or do you think that we should also entertain Republicans when they try to score points by going on about Benghazi?
freethoughtbubble
Member
I hear you 100%. It just never ceases to disappoint me.
Dude Abides
Banned
Oh, ok.
1 UNITE HERE $15,000 $0 $15,000
2 Communications Workers of America $13,500 $0 $13,500
3 National League of Postmasters $12,500 $0 $12,500
4 Service Employees International Union $11,000 $3,000 $8,000
5 National Nurses United $10,250 $250 $10,000
6 American Crystal Sugar $10,000 $0 $10,000
6 American Postal Workers Union $10,000 $0 $10,000
6 Credit Union National Assn $10,000 $0 $10,000
6 DANPAC $10,000 $0 $10,000
6 International Assn of Fire Fighters $10,000 $0 $10,000
6 Machinists/Aerospace Workers Union $10,000 $0 $10,000
6 National Assn of Letter Carriers $10,000 $0 $10,000
6 National Assn of Postal Supervisors $10,000 $0 $10,000
6 National Assn of Realtors $10,000 $0 $10,000
6 Operating Engineers Union $10,000 $0 $10,000
6 Searchlight Leadership Fund $10,000 $0 $10,000
17 American Assn for Justice $9,500 $500 $9,000
17 United Food & Commercial Workers Union $9,500 $0 $9,500
19 National Education Assn $9,100 $600 $8,500
20 American Federation of Teachers
Who cares if he has higher small donations? So he's just a little bit pregnant (with corrupt eeeeebul campaign contributions?
Hillary has said she wants money out of politics as well, so I'm not seeing a meaningful distinction there.
The Albatross
Member
Dude I explicitly said they're not the same thing. It's in my post. If you took the time to quote my post and reply to it, please at least fucking read it.
In case you're too lazy to hit the back button on your browser:
I'm not saying that the NRA and Planned Parenthood are the same from a position of their motivations, one [PP] is defensible and the other [NRA] is an abomination to American society, but they both play this game of being repressed, outside politics to people who sympathize with their perspective.
Obviously I support PP and I do not support the NRA, but they both pretend that they're trying to influence politics from the outside. Sanders, here, is right and PP is part of the political establishment in the US. And thank god that they are.
I think you'd have to prove that those unions arrived at their decisions despite no input from the members of the organization and also in contrast to their congressional scorecards. That seems to be the idiosyncratic nature of the endorsements that people are left scratching their heads over.
Bernie Sanders is Miss Phillipines.
It was written on the card, but they announced someone else anyway.
User 73706
Banned
If The Blacks had just went along and voted for him, this never would have happened!
It doesn't matter what a candidate's TRYING to say. Good candidates will do their best to say something without using buzzwords that someone else can use to torpedo their campaign. That's why you often see: "I'm not for X, I'm for Y!" "But you see people, Y is actually X!" "No it's not!" It's similar to when Bernie said he was going to raise taxes on the middle class. The idea itself is sound, but saying it is so absurdly stupid for anyone running for office. Nobody cares about the asterisk at the end of the sentence. You think the GOP is going to run ads explaining a Democrat's real position? No, they're going to use anything they have to smear the Democrat and if they have actual clips that they can use, the ads will be that much more effective.
What play, exactly, do you think Republicans would get from running with this story in the general? That Bernie is less left than they thought? In the general, this would be of no use to the Republicans.
This is a "story" that only works when both sides of the equation are pro-Planned Parenthood.
Don't forget the part of America that's like the part of GAF that won't even bother to read this thread in the first place because of how inconsequential it is to them.
I think they'd happily run ads in heavily Dem territory saying he's so radical he wants to tear down all institutions, even ones he agrees with, to depress voter turnout.
Unfortunately, the world doesn't work that way. The powerless remain so unless they can find some one to champion their cause. Bernie uses Trump's own style here, talking about his friends in these groups, before slandering them as those he must take down. Then he follows that up by saying he doesn't need them anyway, because he's got the will of the people behind him, and his huge campaign is all he needs.
Make no mistake, this wouldn't have come out of Bernie's mouth at all if he got their support. But since Hillary has been there for years or some shit, they're bad guys. He comes off as petty.
Yes, I read what you wrote, and even on a surface level, its disingenuous, as I've expounded on in multiple posts after that one.
I suppose that's possible, but unlikely. At best they depress voter turnout some, and at worst they cannibalize their own voters unsatisfied with the primary choice by convincing people Sanders is against PP, which is, of course, ridiculous.
Eighty Deuce
Banned
Well he is correct
The new poll from ABC News showed Bernie leading 60-33 over Hillary in NH.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-opens-60-33-lead-hillary-clinton/story?id=36383793
Not sure how legitimate this is though.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-opens-60-33-lead-hillary-clinton/story?id=36383793
Not sure how legitimate this is though.
Omegasquash
Member
Sometimes, just sometimes, I wish he wouldn't say things the way he says them.
There's a very good chance he'll win NH. It's that New England thing, man.
There's a very good chance he'll win NH. It's that New England thing, man.
I don't remember conservatives releasing a false video about PP in 2008, do you?
Oh wait what I do remember is them releasing a false video about ACORN around that time. And guess what? Now ACORN is no more, it's been de-funded and it's now gone as an organization.
Now they seem to be trying to use the same playbook against PP. Gee, I wonder why PP would try to fight back early this year?
PP is potentially fighting for it's very survival this year. They don't need soundbites and video clips like this, from people that are generally supportive of PP.
I think just putting the consistency of his message into question for undecided voters and forcing him to respond to this would be enough. A lot of people's opinions on politicians are shaped by their perception of a politician's character.
Obama's had lots of big ideas and he's articulated lots of them very eloquently. Gun control remains a pipe dream, anti-Muslim sentiment persists. Obama ended up *lying* about ACA in his attempts to influence the public. "if you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan". The idea that the opposition *doesn't* walk all over Obama's ideas and create their own narrative around them is ridiculous.
The idea that a President, especially in this partisan-as-heck time, really wields a persuasive bully pulpit isn't super well supported to me. The President's position clearly lets him set the agenda. Every time Obama mentions guns we get a news cycle about guns. But the actual activity of persuading people takes a whole lot more than just a President making a nice speech.
Also, the President can do a whole lot without explicit legislation.
Fenderputty
Banned
exmachina64
Banned
His motives are pure.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Did anyone in this thread actually watch the interview? Sure, he calls Planned Parenthood's and HRC's endorsements part of the political establishment, but at no point does he say he's "taking them on".
Are people really this thirsty for a controversy?
Are people really this thirsty for a controversy?
gutter_trash
Banned
NH, one of the 5 most whitest State in the Union.
Good luck with that when going South
Clinton partisans have been getting itchy about polls, so they're happy to see Bernie stick his foot in his mouth, which gives them something new to shout about. Over in the Clinton email thread, the same partisans are dismissing Clinton's scandal-du-jour, and the Sanderites are doing the shouting.
Everyone pick a side and punch until your arm's tired. If we punch enough, whoever makes it through will be nice and tenderized for the general.
DrFaustPhD
Member
Yes.
Oddly enough though, this is the only corner of the internet I've seen this one gain any traction - everywhere else people seem to actually be aware how much of a non-comment this was.
It's the establishment influencing politics either way. Bernie's the only person campaigning against it. Is it really that much of a leap in understanding?
Obviously I know that Bernie has big donors. I think it's pretty fair to make a distinction between Planned Parenthood and the National League of Postmasters when we're talking about established political influence tho. I never saw the Letter Carriers Union collecting signatures outside my grocery store, but I see PP doing that like once a month.
For me personally this isn't true. I'm not as enthuastic about Bernie as some people in these threads seem to be, but I want to vote for him in the primaries and the argument on the Hillary side that he will lose the general election is terrifying. I already know people who only know Bernie as "that socialist" (negatively of course). Maybe everyone is more polarized than I imagine but I can't imagine that people have all already made up their minds. That's why attitudes that essentially read, "We don't care about people concerned about X" worry me.
It took OP two and a half hours and 9 pages of comments to be bothered to add the actual original video to the OP for context, which he editorialized some more with a caveat that he thinks it changes nothing.
The pro-Hillary bias here is flagrant. I don't really know why it's tolerated, this thread was doomed from the beginning to produce any kind of intelligent discourse.
Accorn was a lesson learned.
Create a fake video, profit. Campaign on it by threatening to shut down the government in congress and to defund it.
This time, PP fought back and Hillary was explicit about defending them against the Republicans. So they endorsed her.
Bernie didn't have to go this route to make his point. His use of the term "Establishment" is interesting, as though it is inherently a bad thing.
Dude Abides
Banned
So Bernie is fighting against the same groups that donate to him? Do they know that?
Also, Clinton has a campaign finance proposal as well that is similar to Sanders'. Neither of them are calling for full public financing.
This is a consequence of Bernie trying to have it both ways - be the pure outsider candidate while trying to have a competitive campaign for the nomination of an establishment party.
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