At the very end of the path, you see a statue falling through the void. This is the statue that was reaching for a goblet on the peninsula. Based on the nearby recording, this tableau is an allegory for trying to perceive god, but being unable to.
So since the same man is falling through the void with the goblet, at the moment of awakening from the dream... Does that mean that he, and you, have also managed to perceive god/the "builder of this house" by that point?
I would put that in relation with videoclip #6. The (golden) trinket is the goal, and by focusing on the goal rather than letting it go, the man failed where the player succeeded. The trinket can be seen on the island on top of a wardrobe, with the stature of the guy stretching his hands to try to reach it, and interestingly, from his perspective, the trinket coincides with the sun in the sky. The guy is a symbol for Icarus of some sort.
As an anecdote, the trinket is also visible in the secreat credit area.
The trinket reminds me of this scene at the end of one of the Indiana Jones movies. Something regarding the holy chalice used by Jesus.
Just for everyone's information, I was one of the ones who found the secret sun door within five minutes of the game being released. The fmv ending was the same then as it was when I loaded it after 11 lasers being lit.
However, I'm pretty sure the path with the man and the goblet falling were not there. I may be wrong but I really don't remember them being there.
As a side note, Tim from Braid's constant drinking of wine feels very thematically similar to many of the statues.
Also, can someone detail who each of the theater videos is about?
Which, again, is exactly how the puzzles work as well! People who come to them with preconceived ideas of what the rules are have a much worse time, because they will mentally rebel against any evidence contrary to their preconceived rules.
People who bring no preconceived ideas in the first place can get around those mental blocks and reach the actual solutions much more easily.
In one of the audio logs found in the cave, the woman is talking to another woman about her slowly forgetting her experience on the island. After a few exchanges she says something about going back there (to the island) for a "test". I wonder if it's a hint about the cave challenge or something about a NG+.
Also, in the credits ending, on a table in the beginning are 5 sheets of paper with drawings of triangle puzzles that don't exist in the game. It might just be an extra clue to understand how the triangles work tho.
Regarding the flickering lamp, it would be interesting to check if there's a pattern repeating, like some kind of morse message.
It makes sense. Finish the game with 7 lasers, reset, figure out the "+" puzzle at the gate during NG+, learn the rule about the orange triangles in the secret credit lounge, and figure out how to "finish" the game with 11 lasers, i.e. solve the final orange triangle puzzle. This is what Blow had in mind.
Indeed, I was completely lost with the orange triangles until I got spoiled. All the orange triangle puzzles are very simple with one or two triangles and very few possibilities, and then you are faced with a big one with groups of 3 triangles. This is a huge difficulty spike given the experience does not allow to infer the rules (at least for me).
Triangles didn't take long to figure out? (Assuming there aren't more than one type). Although you can luck through early encounters and it's only really the cave where it properly clicks.
It is the opposite. You form hypothesis, and you try to contradict your hypothesis, so that you progressively build a model of the puzzle rules.
It makes sense. Finish the game with 7 lasers, reset, figure out the "+" puzzle at the gate during NG+, learn the rule about the orange triangles in the secret credit lounge, and figure out how to "finish" the game with 11 lasers, i.e. solve the final orange triangle puzzle. This is what Blow had in mind.
Indeed, I was completely lost with the orange triangles until I got spoiled. All the orange triangle puzzles are very simple with one or two triangles and very few possibilities, and then you are faced with a big one with groups of 3 triangles. This is a huge difficulty spike given the experience does not allow to infer the rules (at least for me).
Yeah, the hypothesis is the important part: a scientist never proves a theory, only disproves them. Likewise, we have no reason to think that any of the rules we have worked out are "proven," except in that nothing contradicts them by the time we have beaten the game.
With the triangle puzzles, I went out of my way to try multiple solutions on the ones I had found. Without that, when the big one came up, I wouldn't have got it on my first try.
And, seriously, no theories about the white flowers at all? Why would Blow hide a bunch of seemingly meaningless white flowers elaborately around the island as a red herring?
Hmm I could definitely be wrong about the yellow flowers in my first post. I don't remember seeing any yellow tape recorders though, I think I may have seen an orange one once. Wasn't paying attention to that sort of thing at the start of the game :/
Triangles didn't take long to figure out? (Assuming there aren't more than one type). Although you can luck through early encounters and it's only really the cave where it properly clicks.
To access the cave, you need to solve the triangle puzzle (with the statue of Johnatan Blow working on it). This puzzle is just too hard if you don't know the rules, so I think the secret ending is meant to be found before the accessing the 11-laser cave. The piece of paper with the way to access the secret ending at the end of the cave is just a way to make sure everyone has enough to information to access caves and secret ending no matter which way of thinking they used to solve the puzzles.
One audio log particulary resonated for me, it was about the creature giving existence to the creator by witnessing its creation, or something like that.
In French, there was also:
"Ainsi l'homme construit des objets, mais c'est le vide qui leur donne leur sens."
To access the cave, you need to solve the triangle puzzle (with the statue of Johnatan Blow working on it). This puzzle is just too hard if you don't know the rules, so I think the secret ending is meant to be found before the accessing the 11-laser cave. The piece of paper with the way to access the secret ending at the end of the cave is just a way to make sure everyone has enough to information to access caves and secret ending no matter which way of thinking they used to solve the puzzles.
But you can't find that piece of paper until you solve the big triangle puzzle.
You can access the secret ending if you figure it out at the very beginning of the game, but... The drawings you find there don't actually show valid solutions.
But you can't find that piece of paper until you solve the big triangle puzzle.
You can access the secret ending if you figure it out at the very beginning of the game, but... The drawings you find there don't actually show valid solutions.
IIndeed, I was completely lost with the orange triangles until I got spoiled. All the orange triangle puzzles are very simple with one or two triangles and very few possibilities, and then you are faced with a big one with groups of 3 triangles. This is a huge difficulty spike given the experience does not allow to infer the rules (at least for me).
Triangles didn't take long to figure out? (Assuming there aren't more than one type). Although you can luck through early encounters and it's only really the cave where it properly clicks.
I thought the random triangle puzzles around the island were more than enough to figure out the rule. Solve and break one a couple times to see what does and doesn't work, then do it again the next panel you find. By the time I found my first two-triangle one, I had no doubts.
The hardest part about the about the one that opens up the inner mountain was that the camera is so far from the panel, I thought the symbols were three-block pieces not three triangles. I had to get up and walk to my TV see it right.
I thought the random triangle puzzles around the island were more than enough to figure out the rule. Solve and break one a couple times to see what does and doesn't work, then do it again the next panel you find. By the time I found my first two-triangle one, I had no doubts.
The hardest part about the about the one that opens up the inner mountain was that the camera is so far from the panel, I thought the symbols were three-block pieces not three triangles. I had to get up and walk to my TV see it right.
I thought they were three block Tetris puzzles too
But early ones I had pegged as 'triangle is pointing the direction I have to go past that block', or 'pointing to the face not to cross' which coincidentally solved the puzzle because they were usually single triangles and I was avoiding crossing the face of them.
I thought they were three block Tetris puzzles too
But early ones I had pegged as 'triangle is pointing the direction I have to go past that block', or 'pointing to the face not to cross' which coincidentally solved the puzzle because they were usually single triangles and I was avoiding crossing the face of them.
I came up with the same rule due to the triangular shape. I did not understand only the number was meaningful. I was really focused on the vertices and the directions.
My rule was something along the line:
- if 1 triangle, go along it but never go behing or in front of it, with the front being "| <|" (cf. the pointiest vertex) and the back "<| |" (cf. flat horizontal or vertical edge).
- if 2 triangles, go behind or in front of them,
which incidentally worked.
I was spoiled the rule in the OT, so maybe I would have figured it out once I would have meet a puzzle with 3 triangles for the first time, I don't know, I will never know actually.
Just beat the game, and... that was it? A fly-over of the island, which got reset, and then you're back at the start. It was sort of nice, I guess, but I was expecting something much more OMG from how people have been talking about it. The "THING". What was that even? I guess there was some sort of angelic/religious theme going on? Afterlife? Maybe the fact that I'm entirely irreligious made it all go right over my head. And what was the deal with all the stone people?
Just beat the game, and... that was it? A fly-over of the island, which got reset, and then you're back at the start. It was sort of nice, I guess, but I was expecting something much more OMG from how people have been talking about it. The "THING". What was that even? I guess there was some sort of angelic/religious theme going on? Afterlife? Maybe the fact that I'm entirely irreligious made it all go right over my head. And what was the deal with all the stone people?
I completely forgot that these have multiple exits!
And they make the same noise as the floor puzzle in the Entry, which also had multiple exits but only one that solved a puzzle.
The thing is, if there is a "correct" solution to these, I would assume it will be unambiguous and not guesswork. And 2) is impossible, because one of them has its exits in the corners.
I double-checked the sketches in the chalet in the sky. Looks like two were solved. For the three others, the lines all break off at the point when the drawer realizes the puzzle was not solvable.
But in any case, the grid is a larger grid than the laser gate puzzle panel.
I just spent 2-3 hours looking for some audio logs that I just can't seem to locate. I keep searching for a guide, but all of them are incomplete. On top of that, it seems I'm missing 3 puzzles from the total and have no clue what I could have missed.
I just spent 2-3 hours looking for some audio logs that I just can't seem to locate. I keep searching for a guide, but all of them are incomplete. On top of that, it seems I'm missing 3 puzzles from the total and have no clue what I could have missed.
Check the lake first. The unbloomed flowers represent the audio logs you haven't listened to yet (possibly the locations too, haven't checked). Any brightly colored leaves on the water represent grey triangle puzzles you haven't solved yet.
Don't forrget to solve each panel in the elevator in the secret cave.
I went and made the list. But I can't figure out #5 by searching for the text online.
1. Connections, Season 1, Episode 10, narrated by James Burke: "Yesterday, Tomorrow and You" (1978)
2. Richard Feynman Messenger Lectures, Lecture 5: "The Distinction of Past and Future" (1964) / "The Pleasure of Finding Things Out", BBC Horizon interview with Richard Feynman (1981)
3. "Nostalghia", directed by Andrei Tarkovsky (1983)
4. "The Secret of Psalm 46", by Brian Moriarty (2002)
5. ????
6. "Simply Stop Looking", by Gangaji (????)
Check the lake first. The unbloomed flowers represent the audio logs you haven't listened to yet (possibly the locations too, haven't checked). Any brightly colored leaves on the water represent grey triangle puzzles you haven't solved yet.
I didn't know about the bright leaves, but I've been using the lake for the audio logs. I keep going to the locations indicated there, and went through the caves multiple times to make sure they weren't underground.
I spent some few hours with the game executable in a disassembler, and I didn't see anything obvious that indicates that there's more hidden stuff. Which is a bit sad - there's no "reward" for completing the non-challenge puzzles in the underground. (Or that lonely 8x8 puzzle in the quarry, for that matter)
Thanks for this post, I've just completed the 7 lasers and the
secret credits room with the IV man FMV in the end
. Still plenty of things to do but man, what a game. I agree with a lot of your observations and would even love to maybe expand on it, but it's 5 AM here, so tired and fully expecting to fall asleep and wake up with an IV in my arm .
One thing I'd like to say, and I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but I think you can look at/experience the game backwards (think Braid ending), it might even be a valid and proper way of looking at the entire thing.
Think about it - you start at the shore, a shipwreck (there's a damaged boat behind the final elevator), entering a hall of pillars, the gate welcoming you into the mountain, with the man fiddling with a box of puzzles. Going through the mountain, you see the concept art, structure models and finally emerge into the lush, open world of the island. Finally, you end up at a door, going into a tunnel and into the dark unknown.
It's literally Jonathan Blow and the team showing us the moment of inception, the shipwrecked idea, the experiments, development, jumbled and incoherent concepts, glitching puzzles, while climbing the mountain of creation. Then you finally enter this beautiful world, set things up foreveryone (I'd go as far to say that I wouldn't be surprised if the final goal is to undo all of the puzzles, like the developer actually setting up all of the puzzles for the player, you now do it for someone else, Blow himself or just for yourself), very much in line with the apparent philosophy of the game. It teaches you a language, a path, a way to think, and then reveal that it was you who was controlling the creator all along (because the devs realy went out of their way to cover a lot of ideas and variations to what might occur to the player to try out).
And then, in the end, (mostly) everything is ready and done, you enter the door, shut it behind you and go through the tunnel into the darkness, the uncertainty of releasing this experiment, the game into the world.
Or one might interpret it as us incepting the concept of the experiment into Jonathan Blow, or any creator really, and the ending FMV shows how he got the ideas, tapping into a sort of loop of the collective creative mind, frequently jacking into that idea sphere and becoming obsessed with the path (a dot and a line). Really a weird and interesting take on where ideas and creativity comes from.
This is probably the only game I ever played that leaves me both impressed and disappointed at the same time.
I feel like the puzzles and what they do with them is quite impressive and yet the fact that they limit themselves only to panel puzzles and always work in the connect the dot to the end format still feels like a waste. Like the first time I figured out that you could do the sun environmental puzzle with the glowing reflections in the desert I was mind blown, I thought this game was only going to get grander and grander. And yet most of those environmental puzzles are just extras that seemingly do nothing to the game(except the secret room one which is very clever), and even if it turns out that they do they're clearly not the focal point of the game. I just feel like they could have done something more with them especially in such a beautiful and meticuluosly crafted world.
I guess maybe it's just because I was left with some of the most panel heavy areas in the late game, like the swamp and the treetop. There wasn't even a sense of discovery in those places, in most others you were at least unlocking doors into new areas and what not, and there it was just rows upon rows of panels that lead into pretty much nothing.
As far as the story goes I think it's pretty interesting, though I think it could have been presented much better, I mean I don't know why they don't have a room where you can just listen to the audio recordings you found just like the video room.
I feel like the puzzles and what they do with them is quite impressive and yet the fact that they limit themselves only to panel puzzles and always work in the connect the dot to the end format still feels like a waste. Like the first time I figured out that you could do the sun environmental puzzle with the glowing reflections in the desert I was mind blown, I thought this game was only going to get grander and grander. And yet most of those environmental puzzles are just extras that seemingly do nothing to the game(except the secret room one which is very clever), and even if it turns out that they do they're clearly not the focal point of the game. I just feel like they could have done something more with them especially in such a beautiful and meticuluosly crafted world.
I guess maybe it's just because I was left with some of the most panel heavy areas in the late game, like the swamp and the treetop. There wasn't even a sense of discovery in those places, in most others you were at least unlocking doors into new areas and what not, and there it was just rows upon rows of panels that lead into pretty much nothing.
There were probably more elaborate puzzles among those that were cut - I think button puzzles were mentioned in an article somewhere.
Still, the question is, how far could you take the complexity? You could maybe have an environmental puzzle where you move an object nearby to far away, in a giant perspective trick. You could have a shadow puzzle where you move the light around yourself (which would almost certainly drive people even more crazy than that area does now).
The tradeoff would be that all the other puzzles get harder, as people start questioning whether you need to move objects around to solve them.
I don't know. I expected a lot of mysteries in the game, but in the end it was very subtle about them (and yet it seemed to be enough, when I spotted them). The swamp had the massive perspective trick (which was absolutely amazing), and the treehouse had things like the blackened tree that you kept seeing but can only wonder about from a distance. And there was the statue of a woman sitting far above the swamp, using vibrant colors to paint a picture that you can't see...
I overall really, really loved the game but man, that credits ending was a bunch of wank.
I'm not at all against weird or 'arty' endings (or FMV, god FMV can be so good sometimes) but that who video just...bleck. I don't even know how to put it into words really. I don't want to use the "P" word because it's so overused in general, but it feels appropriate here.
I overall really, really loved the game but man, that credits ending was a bunch of wank.
I'm not at all against weird or 'arty' endings (or FMV, god FMV can be so good sometimes) but that who video just...bleck. I don't even know how to put it into words really. I don't want to use the "P" word because it's so overused in general, but it feels appropriate here.
Well, in the game's own words it would be "pomposity"...
I thought it was a joke about what happens to people after hours of this game, more than anything. Just like the pause screen is a joke about starting to see puzzles when you close your eyes.
There were probably more elaborate puzzles among those that were cut - I think button puzzles were mentioned in an article somewhere.
Still, the question is, how far could you take the complexity? You could maybe have an environmental puzzle where you move an object nearby to far away, in a giant perspective trick. You could have a shadow puzzle where you move the light around yourself (which would almost certainly drive people even more crazy than that area does now).
The tradeoff would be that all the other puzzles get harder, as people start questioning whether you need to move objects around to solve them.
I don't know. I expected a lot of mysteries in the game, but in the end it was very subtle about them (and yet it seemed to be enough, when I spotted them). The swamp had the massive perspective trick (which was absolutely amazing), and the treehouse had things like the blackened tree that you kept seeing but can only wonder about from a distance. And there was the statue of a woman sitting far above the swamp, using vibrant colors to paint a picture that you can't see...
I guess you could be right, but man after that sun puzzle in the temple I was ready for some crazy things. While I was firing all those lasers for a time I was convinced that they would have to be a puzzle, since there were so many of them and one would clearly have to be rotated. I thought you would have to trace them in relation to the sun and the clouds and some crazy shit, but in the end the actual hardest setpiece in the game was the timed musical puzzle which was cool but also felt cheap at the same time, since the game is all about taking your time and dissecting the puzzles.
I have only noticed the pots are matched so that the sum of two linked pots is (thin and thick) for each of the 3 slices.
But never moved them. I don't think you can. Edit: I read there is a panel which decides which vase is elevated, which is useful for the "+" puzzle. I guess I was just lucky the yellow vase was already elevated in my game.
If you don't know it, I'm almost hesitant to just directly link the trick because for me, personally, it was quite possibly more impactful than the +1s.
It is the result of investigating the particularly cryptic statue out by the walkways, up close.
If you don't know it, I'm almost hesitant to just directly link the trick because for me, personally, it was quite possibly more impactful than the +1s.
It is the result of investigating the particularly cryptic statue out by the walkways, up close.
If you don't know it, I'm almost hesitant to just directly link the trick because for me, personally, it was quite possibly more impactful than the +1s.
It is the result of investigating the particularly cryptic statue out by the walkways, up close.
Is this supposed to be a big revelation that these two things line up or am I missing something? I thought this was one of the most obvious "illusions" in the game.
Edit: Also, has anyone solved the following doors: the ship, the cove by the desert temple or the one on the way up the mountain? I've finished the game and am gonna come back to it next week but I couldn't figure out what would be behind those doors.
Is this supposed to be a big revelation that these two things line up or am I missing something? I thought this was one of the most obvious "illusions" in the game.
Edit: Also, has anyone solved the following doors: the ship, the cove by the desert temple or the one on the way up the mountain? I've finished the game and am gonna come back to it next week but I couldn't figure out what would be behind those doors.
If you don't know it, I'm almost hesitant to just directly link the trick because for me, personally, it was quite possibly more impactful than the +1s.
It is the result of investigating the particularly cryptic statue out by the walkways, up close.
Is this supposed to be a big revelation that these two things line up or am I missing something? I thought this was one of the most obvious "illusions" in the game.
Edit: Also, has anyone solved the following doors: the ship, the cove by the desert temple or the one on the way up the mountain? I've finished the game and am gonna come back to it next week but I couldn't figure out what would be behind those doors.
Since the lake is a minimap of the island, the flickering light of the statue on the lake could be a symbol for the item at which all the lasers are directed.
Or maybe it is just the woman holding the light being a reference to the giant woman with her raised arm who is sculpted on the mountain.
Where would the point where the woman is on the map be on the island?
