The New Hampshire Primary |Feb 9|: Live Free or Die

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SubScorpianZero said:
did you notice this?

"Sanders called tonight the beginning of a revolution, but Dem turnout in completed areas is 14 percent lower than 2008. GOP up 12 since '12."

why compare different years? Seems like a slanted opinion.
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2008 was the last time the Democratic primary was competitive and the GOP just lost the last two elections (i.e., didn't have an incumbent in place). It's a fair comparison.
 
Amazing how he's just rambling and throwing red meat to the crowd, without one real policy unless you want to count building a wall on the Mexican border.
 
Must be nice to just make up numbers knowing your base is too stupid to research their validity or believe other sources.
 
This Trump speech SUCKS and is long winded :/

Voysa Reezun said:
The funny thing is, of course, that Bill was notoriously terrible for black people. He toughened crime laws that hurt black people disproportionately, NAFTA caused a lot of jobs to leave the U.S. that hurt black folks, who are last-hired and first-fired...but he showed up on Arsenio and played a sax.

Toni Morrison's little narrative that he was the first black president was bullshit and a clear illustration of style over substance. I won't hold Hillary responsible for how Bill hurt black folks in the '90s, but it's a real shame if black voters like Hillary because they like Bill. I don't know why the fuck black people should like Bill if one looks at the facts of his presidency.
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Again, I can't speak for all Black people but as a group they aren't as ignorant of this fact as you think they are. Many Black people were in favor of being "Tough on Crime" - those were laws passed when crime was WAY worse than it was now and with the support of many AA. Of course when the laws came into practice they starting hitting Black communities hard and they spoke up. It doesn't seem until now that people started listening though. With regards to the overall favorable opinion of the Clintons, you also have to factor in the below:

Manmademan said:
The funny thing is, Bill Clinton was a president that actually BOTHERED to reach out to the Black community and nominate prominent blacks into government after 12 years of being demonized as welfare queens and criminals by the Reagan/Bush administration. Hell, I'm pretty sure they blamed AIDS on us too. I don't know how old you are, but living through that shit was AWFUL.

Yeah, the 90s crack epidemic and subsequent crime explosion led to some aggressive expansion of state and federal prisons, but you were looking at an era where violent crime was double to triple the rate of current day. That was going to happen no matter who the president was, and there were more than a few black people that were in favor of it. No one enjoyed crack fueled shootouts in DC, black or not.

Keep in mind as well that Clinton presided over a period of relative peace, wealth and prosperity at all economic levels, after a bush era recession and prior to yet ANOTHER bush recession and 8 years of nigh endless war.

So no, Black voters having fond memories of the clinton presidential years is not irrational, nor does it revolve around Arsenio Hall OR Toni Morrison- and if you had read her column in which she refers to Clinton it was not meant as as flattery or an endorsement.
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The Clinton support isn't as "nonsensical" as one might think it is

neurosisxeno said:
And maybe that will drive young voters to finally show up for Midterms and get rid of these hacks in Congress that vote against everything out of spite. That's one of the biggest reasons I support Sanders. He's willing to eat 2 years of failure to achieve if it means putting the stubborn and ineffective Republicans (and some Democrats) in the spotlight.

When he talks about a political revolution, it isn't just putting a liberal\progressive in the White House, it's making changes at every level of Government to adhere to the interests of the people. I would be fine with Hillary in office, but she's going to concede ground to the Republicans in congress just to give the illusion of being bipartisan and a great negotiator. You know what bipartisan has meant since the 80's? Republicans getting 80% of what they want while Democrats try and explain why the 20% they got isn't such a shit deal.

I'm tired of that crap. If we have to suffer through 2 years of Republican stonewalling a Sanders administration, but can get a huge turnout for the 2018 midterms to dethrone a ton of these relics with crap voting records, I'm all for it.
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In my experience, and I think most of history corroborates this, when young people don't get what they want - they give tend to give up or blame the system rather than get motivated. At least on the Democratic side - I think the Dem losses under Obamba back this up. Anecdotal evidence with some of my younger friends also back this up. Heck this reminds me of a conversation I had a while back with a good friend of mine who happens to lean Republican. He basically refuses to vote because "fuck this system" and it just pisses me off even if he is likely to vote for candidates I'd be opposed to. It pisses me off just on principle (not voting that is).

As an aside, I've never gotten the sense the Sanders campaign is very interested or motivated in helping downstream Democrats (at least right now). Clinton at least seems to be interested at this point in time and has raised money for them. There are Democrats hanging on to seats by a thread in Red States. I'm not confidant a Sanders nomination helps them out :(

NYCmetsfan said:
I want to hop in on this. Minorities support for clinton represents an experience most clinton supporters have gone through (not trying to say all these groups have it as bad as minorities) they've lost.

Clintons supporters are older and remember a pre-00s era where cultural liberalism wasn't ascendant. They know the insidious of the rights attacks on the disprivleged and powerless and know how much has been gained and lost.

MInorities can't just hope for a better world, the know racism will be here tomorrow and they're likely to continue being disadvantaged for years and decades to come. Preserving hard won victories isn't defeatism, its progress.

Unions at least insitutionally support clinton because they've been beaten back by right to work laws and attacks on workers. They have gone from representing 25% of workers to 10%. They know progessive issues aren't unidirectional they can and have been undone. Preserving hard won victories isn't defeatism its progress.

Womens groups support hillary because they've seen GOP dismissive at the the everlasting presence of sexism and attacks that have crippled a women's right to her body in the south and midwest. They know abortion and womens issues isn't some oneway street. Preserving hard won victories isn't defeatism its progress.

Young voters by and large don't realize this because they've won most fights they've been in and their peers share their values (this is amplified by cultural segregation both online and off). They've won gay marriage, a black president and the acceptance of identity politics They had the bush years but by and large most of sanders supporters were not that adversely effected by them. They've not lost something they've won.

This is amplified by white voters and white young voters. Who even when they lose don't really lose. Who doubts that by and large most of the white students in Iowa's and NH's universities are going to be relatively fine? They might have large loans and living with their parents but they have their parents to support them in both cases. It might be a case of arrested development but its not existential. Meanwhile black and other minorities face existential problems daily. From police brutality to economic disparities these problems are very life and death.

This doesn't summarize the entire race and I don't mean to lambast bernie supporters as idiots or people oblivious to other things but their desire to brush aside realism complains reflects by and large the fact they can afford to, the clinton coalition can't
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Bless this post <3
 
SubScorpianZero said:
did you notice this?

"Sanders called tonight the beginning of a revolution, but Dem turnout in completed areas is 14 percent lower than 2008. GOP up 12 since '12."

why compare different years? Seems like a slanted opinion.
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Because there were no dem primaries in 2012
 
Bernie Sanders: 'Don't underestimate me'
May 26, 2015, 09:20 am

The odds might be against Sen. Bernie Sanders’s presidential bid, but he has a message for those who question his bid: “Don’t underestimate me."

“I fully concede that I get into this race as a major underdog. No question about it. I mean, Hillary Clinton is known by 95 percent of the American people. And clearly, in terms of money, I will be very, very, very heavily outspent,” the Vermont independent said in an interview with CNBC.

“Don't underestimate me. We're going to do better than people think. And I think we got a shot to win this thing.”

Sanders polls more than 50 percentage points behind Clinton in most surveys, and many Democrats don’t believe he has even an outside shot of defeating her.
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Your Entertainer said:
I love this assumption that Hillary would accomplish all of her plans, some of them, or even more of them than Bernie would of his.

Congress is geared to obstruct. I think Bernie will do a better job than Hillary of inspiring progressives and mobilizing voter turnout out during mid terms, and "actually get things done" when it comes to changing the makeup of congress. Of course this is all speculation - but the patronizing "fantasy!!" Defeatist attitude towards proposals that many would find preferable needs to be toned down.
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The Librarian said:
This is why Sanders' "political revolution" talk is nonsense https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/697252714540068864
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I just dont get why people can't accept this reality. More extreme isn't doing a thing now let alone in mid-terms. Kind of sad seeing some of the democrat base push so hard for extremism like republicans have done.
 
Merc_ said:
You really shouldn't try attacking someone over something your own golden boy supported is my point.
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My point is: why is Bill Clinton held up like a saint?

I was responding to a post about Bill Clinton. If that's all you can counter about Bill's failures by shifting the subject to Bernie, then there is no point in discussing this any further.
 
sprsk said:
Because there were no dem primaries in 2012
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compare the same years, otherwise a comment like that is baseless. mention the 08 numbers for both, guess what? they were probably lower as well, which is why he mentions two separate years.


.....just a guess.


edit: unless he's trying to prove that their was a bigger political revolution in 2012 in the republican side than the current revolution he is trying to go for.
 
Tesseract said:
trump is akuma
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Make the Satsui No Hadou Great Again&#8482;
 
I would vote for Trump over Cruz or many other republicans. Theres a reason why other republicans hate him and he isn't taking money from Koch. If I voted republican it would be Trump. Remember he used to be a democrat. The wall and blocking Muslims will never happen.
 
OpinionatedCyborg said:
I haven't been paying close attention, but didn't he say "4.2%" and then say that number must be wrong (because otherwise "we wouldn't be getting this much support")?
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No lol, he says "don't listen to the numbers 4.x%, 5%, if it were 5%, do you think we would have gatherings like this?" -- "It's more like 30%, 35%, I'm even hearing 40%, 42%" bla bla bla

Not accurate but basically what he said.
 
Rubio admitting he fucked up Saturday, not sure if that is a clever idea or not ...

... and continues to talk badly about Obama.
 
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