The New Hampshire Primary |Feb 9|: Live Free or Die

Status
Not open for further replies.
damisa said:
Seriously, if young people can't get interested without being promised unicorns then the country deserves Republican leadership.
Click to expand...

Almost everyone voting for Sanders know that most of the goals he proposes are probably not achievable in full within his presidency. They don't care, because they know at the very least he'll do his best to set the groundwork for them. They don't think Clinton will do that.
 
phanphare said:
lol, conflating what bernie is proposing to promising unicorns

it'd be funnier if it wasn't such a depressing reflection on why we are where we are as a country
Click to expand...

Exactly. Shit is so depressing. Bernie s policies are populist. Issue by issue the majority of Americans largely agree with him.

A politician actually representing the people is unicorns though. That's how fucking corrupt or system is. We are so used to getting fucked over.
Kristoffer said:
Then why do they support a $15 minimum wage?
Click to expand...

Please elaborate. not sure what you are getting at.
 
damisa said:
Seriously, if young people can't get interested without being promised unicorns then the country deserves Republican leadership.
Click to expand...

The same unicorns Hillary is proposing that will never get passed. She should continue to shit on young people's concerns (and working class people in their 30s too since they like Sanders also). Only the demands of 50 year old middle class 2 car owning families matter.

But Bernie and his supporters are the bad guys.
1.0
 
Crab said:
Almost everyone voting for Sanders know that most of the goals he proposes are probably not achievable in full within his presidency. They don't care, because they know at the very least he'll do his best to set the groundwork for them. They don't think Clinton will do that.
Click to expand...

Exactly... i dont know why this is so hard to understand. But no... millenials are stupid and deluded.
 
Bruce Springsteen said:
Christie is out but Carson with his 2% is still in it?
Click to expand...

Carson can pick up support in South Carolina and other southern states. I don't know how he thinks this can possibly translate into a path to the nomination, but he has a relatively more viable path forward for the next month or so than Christie.
 
QuicheFontaine said:
I've just been looking at the schedule on RCP, and it says SC is "winner takes all".

Trump is almost certain to get it, polling at ~35%. Cruz is an outside possibility on ~20%. What's certain though is that neither Carson or Kasich is going to outright win it.

So what are they waiting for? I don't really see what changes between now and then. It looks like they can't pick up one or two delegates in SC (unless I'm misunderstanding this "winner takes all" thing).
Click to expand...

South Carolina is not winner take all. There are 50 delegates. Winner gets 29 automatically, and the other 21 delegates are decided based on the winner of each district.
 
damisa said:
Seriously, if young people can't get interested without being promised unicorns then the country deserves Republican leadership.
Click to expand...

at a minimum, Americans deserve to have what other Western developed countries have.

*cue Marco Rubio spiel

seriously. The US is still too Right Wing, Americans do need single payer, public mandated maternity leave and a fair shake.

the only reason why I am in the Hillary camp is because of winnability. Bernie can't survive the onslaught of Republican Super PACs
 
Angry Fork said:
The same unicorns Hillary is proposing that will never get passed. She should continue to shit on young people's concerns (and working class people in their 30s too since they like Sanders also). Only the demands of 50 year old middle class 2 car owning families matter.

But Bernie and his supporters are the bad guys.
1.0
Click to expand...

Sorry if I don't believe any of Bernie's proposals have a chance of passing. It's also surprising so many of you are willing to sign up for a lifetime of higher taxes in order to help mostly Baby Boomers get free healthcare

The same baby boomers who
-generated massive debt for us millenials to pay
-ruined the environment
-spent their lives paying low taxes

And the only thing we get in return is a promise that we'll be taken care of 30-40 years. But certainly noting can go wrong. Younger people having less kids is no problem, having to deal with climate change is no problem, having baby boomers live longer and therefore use up more government money is no problem. Nothing can possibly go wrong
 
boiled goose said:
Exactly... i dont know why this is so hard to understand. But no... millenials are stupid and deluded.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's because Millenials are so sure he WILL win the presidency.

That in itself is why people should be so scared.

Thank goodness the boomers are too old to survive the next twenty years, otherwise the Republicans would clean house.
 
bounchfx said:
This doesn't really make any sense though because even though the taxes would be higher, the net income of those families would go up due to their health care costs lowering dramatically

It's like people see a higher tax number and freak out without understanding the full change
Click to expand...

That's if you actually believe the numbers we are being quoted. We've already had reports that Sanders plan is going to cost more than he's currently saying. Who knows how much this thing costs in the end, which means we don't know the actual tax increases required to fund it.

How often do we see government programs/projects end up being far more expensive than originally thought?
 
damisa said:
Seriously, if young people can't get interested without being promised unicorns then the country deserves Republican leadership.
Click to expand...

Well, to me it just sucks that apparently a lot of other western countries can have unicorns and we can't even think about having it or vote someone who agrees with some of those policies because reasons.
 
gutter_trash said:
at a minimum, Americans deserve to have what other Western developed countries have.

*cue Marco Rubio spiel

seriously. The US is still too Right Wing, Americans do need single payer, public mandated maternity leave and a fair shake.

the only reason why I am in the Hillary camp is because of winnability. Bernie can't survive the onslaught of Republican Super PACs
Click to expand...
This is what worries me. I like Bernie and support him or Hillary, but they will go in on Bernie. The fact that so many just dismiss that......I don't know.
 
damisa said:
Sorry if I don't believe any of Bernie's proposals have a chance of passing. It's also surprising so many of you are willing to sign up for a lifetime of higher taxes in order to help mostly Baby Boomers get free healthcare

The same baby boomers who
-generated massive debt for us millenials to pay
-ruined the environment
-spent their lives paying low taxes

And the only thing we get in return is a promise that we'll be taken care of 30-40 years. But certainly noting can go wrong. Younger people having less kids is no problem, having to deal with climate change is no problem, having baby boomers live longer and therefore use up more government money is no problem. Nothing can possibly go wrong
Click to expand...

Baby Boomers already get free health care. It's called Medicare.
 
gutter_trash said:
at a minimum, Americans deserve to have what other Western developed countries have.

*cue Marco Rubio spiel

seriously. The US is still too Right Wing, Americans do need single payer, public mandated maternity leave and a fair shake.

the only reason why I am in the Hillary camp is because of winnability. Bernie can't survive the onslaught of Republican Super PACs
Click to expand...

Really disagree.

If Trump gets the nomination (let's hope he does) there will be almost universal, international support from Canadians, Europe, Africa, Australia etc to vote Bernie. The world hates Trump. Globalization affects our politics more than we think. Bernie would destroy Trump from people voting to keep him out of the whitehouse alone.
 
Ogrekiller said:
Yeah, that's because Millenials are so sure he WILL win the presidency.

That in itself is why people should be so scared.
Click to expand...

I dont understand what you mean... im not sure they think he will win.. he is still the underdog. They are just fighting for what they perceive to be the better candidate
 
Manmademan said:
Fucking This.

Let me spell this out for that particular junior member.

Minorities have had white politicians floating in promising them the moon since before the civil rights era, and the vast majority of said politicians are full of shit. Naturally, minority voters- especially black voters- are extremely skeptical whenever a politician says anything. Clinton gets a free pass because not only was her Husband an extremely well liked president by the black community, but she worked within the Obama administration and is widely viewed as obama's preferred candidate.

Speaking of Obama, Black Voters were skeptical of HIM as well and backed Clinton right up until Obama proved he wasn't Jesse Jackson 2.0 by getting white voters to carry him to victory in Iowa.

Bernie's entire rhetoric of "dismantle the banks", "free college", "revamp the tax structure", etc etc has been met with a resounding "oh yeah? how?" from every single minority voter I can think of, and there is not one single valid explanation as to how any of what bernie wants to do gets past a republican congress.

Until he manages to prove he's more than just talk, he's going to strike out with minorities as he has been for months. As it is, Bernie's rhetoric isn't any more realistic than Trump claiming to put up walls to keep out mexicans.
Click to expand...
NYCmetsfan said:
I want to hop in on this. Minorities support for clinton represents an experience most clinton supporters have gone through (not trying to say all these groups have it as bad as minorities) they've lost.

Clintons supporters are older and remember a pre-00s era where cultural liberalism wasn't ascendant. They know the insidious of the rights attacks on the disprivleged and powerless and know how much has been gained and lost.

MInorities can't just hope for a better world, the know racism will be here tomorrow and they're likely to continue being disadvantaged for years and decades to come. Preserving hard won victories isn't defeatism, its progress.

Unions at least insitutionally support clinton because they've been beaten back by right to work laws and attacks on workers. They have gone from representing 25% of workers to 10%. They know progessive issues aren't unidirectional they can and have been undone. Preserving hard won victories isn't defeatism its progress.

Womens groups support hillary because they've seen GOP dismissive at the the everlasting presence of sexism and attacks that have crippled a women's right to her body in the south and midwest. They know abortion and womens issues isn't some oneway street. Preserving hard won victories isn't defeatism its progress.

Young voters by and large don't realize this because they've won most fights they've been in and their peers share their values (this is amplified by cultural segregation both online and off). They've won gay marriage, a black president and the acceptance of identity politics They had the bush years but by and large most of sanders supporters were not that adversely effected by them. They've not lost something they've won.

This is amplified by white voters and white young voters. Who even when they lose don't really lose. Who doubts that by and large most of the white students in Iowa's and NH's universities are going to be relatively fine? They might have large loans and living with their parents but they have their parents to support them in both cases. It might be a case of arrested development but its not existential. Meanwhile black and other minorities face existential problems daily. From police brutality to economic disparities these problems are very life and death.

This doesn't summarize the entire race and I don't mean to lambast bernie supporters as idiots or people oblivious to other things but their desire to brush aside realism complains reflects by and large the fact they can afford to, the clinton coalition can't
Click to expand...
I just wanted to bring more attention to these posts because they kind of went under the radar last night. Excellent posts and something I think should be discussed more now that Sanders is doing so well.
 
boiled goose said:
I dont understand what you mean... im not sure they think he will win.. he is still the underdog. They are just fighting for what they perceive to be the better candidate
Click to expand...

Then go home, because it's everything or nothing in this game here.

At least you could count on the house and senate being there if Obama lost. If Bernie goes up to bat and the Senate doesn't flip it's over. He doesn't even have a plan to win the Senate, and he won't have time to when the Republicans are raining attack ads if he wins the primary.
 
gutter_trash said:
at a minimum, Americans deserve to have what other Western developed countries have.

*cue Marco Rubio spiel

seriously. The US is still too Right Wing, Americans do need single payer, public mandated maternity leave and a fair shake.

the only reason why I am in the Hillary camp is because of winnability. Bernie can't survive the onslaught of Republican Super PACs
Click to expand...

You're assuming the majority of the country would be more in favor of fascism and xenophobia over economic populism and civil rights.

America might be right wing but it's not that right wing. A democrat is a shoe-in regardless of who the dem or gop nominee is. The gop is further right than Romney was and he got decimated against a largely center-left/left wing platform by Obama.
 
Prodigal Son said:
Really disagree.

If Trump gets the nomination (let's hope he does) there will be almost universal, international support from Canadians, Europe, Africa, Australia etc to vote Bernie. The world hates Trump. Globalization affects our politics more than we think. Bernie would destroy Trump from people voting to keep him out of the whitehouse alone.
Click to expand...

Turns out you have to be a US citizen to vote. If foreign opinion mattered in US elections Bush would have served one term.
 
thestopsign said:
I must be one of a few people still super divided on whether to vote for Bernie or Hillary. The bickering between sides is sort of sickening to me when I think they are both viable candidates and have strong platforms.
Click to expand...

I would much prefer people to share your view than to be super aggressively for one candidate. I personally prefer Bernie because I feel Hillary is too much of a big money politician to be willing to change the status quo of Wall Street, but we've gotta be realistic and say either of these two would be a much better choice than the Republican offerings. We need people to be very willing to vote for whoever wins the Democratic Primaries in the general
 
Last Hearth said:
So Hilary is going to get more delegates from NH than Bernie, even though she lost 60-39. Democracy is really working out great.
Click to expand...
If super delegates only constituted around 9% of all delegates like the Republican party it would bother me as much. The majority of elected officials here went Hillary months ago.
 
Angry Fork said:
You're assuming the majority of the country would be more in favor of fascism and xenophobia over economic populism and civil rights.

America might be right wing but it's not that right wing. A democrat is a shoe-in regardless of who the dem or gop nominee is. The gop is further right than Romney was and he got decimated against a largely center-left/left wing platform by Obama.
Click to expand...

Yes I do. Civil Rights Act was not passed by popular referendum, it was passed by LBJ intimidating congress and swaying them to vote for it. Without LBJ's ruggedness, it would not have passed that year

The US overall, is a Right Wing nation
 
Last Hearth said:
So Hilary is going to get more delegates from NH than Bernie, even though she lost 60-39. Democracy is really working out great.
Click to expand...

Ah I understand your general point but the super delegates aren't set in stone.

So if somehow Sanders is leading in the polls at the point that the DNC has to choose a candidate, they can easily swing to him.

But yes, it's clear that the establishment wants Hillary to win the nomination.
 
Angry Fork said:
You're assuming the majority of the country would be more in favor of fascism and xenophobia over economic populism and civil rights.

America might be right wing but it's not that right wing. A democrat is a shoe-in regardless of who the dem or gop nominee is. The gop is further right than Romney was and he got decimated against a largely center-left/left wing platform by Obama.
Click to expand...

I think this is bordering on naive, particularly in a race where foreign policy (ISIS) is increasingly on the minds of voters and Bernie's platform on it would have a hard time weathering a GOP nominee's attacks.
 
Amir0x said:
And without someone pragmatic to understand how to actually get the job done, the idealism will amount to nothing. Idealism by itself means nothing.
Click to expand...

This is quite funny coming from you given some posts in the '08 Primary thread.


I think another repeat of Obama's presidency is fine. That is unless you don't think Sanders is any way shape related to Obama's campaign, then whatever. I guess I'm just surprised at your shift towards pragmatism so completely after Obama's campaign's anchor was 'change'
 
Ogrekiller said:
Then go home, because it's everything or nothing in this game here.

At least you could count on the house and senate being there if Obama lost. If Bernie goes up to bat and the Senate doesn't flip it's over. He doesn't even have a plan to win the Senate, and he won't have time to when the Republicans are raining attack ads if he wins the primary.
Click to expand...

The GOP needs 30% of the non-white vote in order to win. That's not happening.
 
Dude Abides said:
Turns out you have to be a US citizen to vote. If foreign opinion mattered in US elections Bush would have served one term.
Click to expand...

Shocker, right? Hence my mentioning globalization.

Bush was reelected in 2004. People weren't literally brainwashing themselves from global social media in 2004. You'd be surprised how many 'Berniebros' aren't even American and how much that's had an effect on his perceived massive following.
 
Kristoffer said:
Then why do they support a $15 minimum wage?
Click to expand...

You know if someone works full time and doesn't get a living wage, their expenses are being subsidized by the government through social programs

So it just means the business doesn't have to pay the full living wage, and instead tax dollars cover the gap
 
lednerg said:
Age ...... Hill .. Bern
65 up ... 55% . 44%
45-64 ... 45% . 53%
30-44 ... 32% . 66%
18-29 ... 16% . 83%

Even got the 45-64ers. Damn.
Click to expand...

anecdotal of course, but all of my parents and their old democrat friends from Houston and their new friends in Reno are all Bernie supporters. Really surprised me when I went to visit over thanksgiving--I was certain they'd be Hilary supporters given their zeal for Bill
 
I click the CNN link for "how they voted" demographics breakdown and am, for some reason, greeted with a picture of Rev. Sharpton and Bernie Sanders leaving Sylvia's after a meeting.

Sylvia's? Really? Amy Ruth's is so much better and it's only 10-11 blocks south.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

New Hampshire man is 2nd person known to be living with a pig kidney
28
1K
Alebrije replied
Anyone live in Seattle? I need to kill 9 hours after my flight
17
283
Panajev2001a replied
Those who currently live in Portland, OR
5
654
Boss Mog replied
Taco Bell Live Más LIVE 2025
|OT| News Clickbait 
21
1K
GymWolf replied
Brand New has reunited - First live shows in 8 years incoming
11
684
Chuck Berry replied
Top Bottom