HTC Vive is $799, ships early April 2016

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I had a Oculus DK1 and a DK2 and had loads of fun. Room tracking is big plus for me as i can easily make space for it so im going with Vive.

But my only concern at the moment is games and how quiet Valve is...

Is it just me or does it feel like Valve not really showing much?

I don't Expect Half life 3 but something as basic as confirmation of Half life 2 / Left for dead VR version etc...

Seems like Valve will do the Steam VR interface and nothing else?

This is where Oculus has a HUGE advantage. Developers have had access to Rift devkits for around 3 years now and I've seen plenty of developers on various forums complaining that they can't get Vive devkits for love nor money.

HTC sent out 7000 devkits at the start of this year - Oculus must have sent out over 300,000 of the things by now.

That's one of the reasons why I'm getting a Rift instead of a Vive, the Rift will have a shitload more developer support. Right now there are plenty of games with Rift support - Elite Dangerous, DCS, War Thunder, Project CARS, Assetto Corsa and Alien Isolation to name a few off the top of my head. Will these all get Vive support on launch day..? Who knows..? But I'd put good money on them all getting Runtime 1.0 support for the Oculus Rift, even Elite Dangerous.
 
Sony has a real golden opportunity here being, presumably the only affordable option of the three major headsets. It would be funny to see them dominate this market early on.

They were always going to be the most viable choice for the mass market, and should continue to be for the mid tier VR experience, until mobile and streaming compatible HMDs catch up in power and quality to become the norm.
 
ITT: Almost 30 pages of arguing based mostly on people not having the same underlying assumptions, or even considering them.

You have a bunch of people arguing that Vive and Oculus are DOA because their price isn't suitable for mass market adoption. Then you have a bunch of people arguing that they will be successful, not because they think it's ready for mass market adoption, but because mass market adoption isn't necessary, or even expected, of a first generation device of a new technology platform.

People should be debating this. "Is mass market adoption of first gen VR devices required to consider VR a success?" My answer is no. History of every new piece of tech should teach us that high initial cost of entry is just par for the course. And mass market adoption is a pointless goal right now, there will always be an upper bound to the number of adopters of early tech. Every company, yes Sony included, understands this. So you have them looking to carve out segments of the market. Sony going for the entry point to high end VR experiences. Valve going for the premium market. Oculus going for the premium market AND the low end market with minimum barrier of entry with gear VR.
 
This is the sentiment of a sizable chunk of NeoGaf users who have a powerful PC and are already into gaming, but the mainstream market will not be able to pick up a lot of the fidelity differences. This is why Sony could be in a unique spot if they keep the price low. The fact that they have kept the price low by not getting in a tech arms race with Occulus/Vive is their competitive advantage.

Mobile manufacturers are the ones who are going to win the mainstream market. They are heavily pushing their products and there's already established channels for software and it's very easy to get into. As a device and software stand point, they are also closer to mobile than "high end" VR. If sony can keep their price significantly lower than vive or oculus, they are getting into mobile territory in terms of price and availability and it's very hard to be competetive there with higher prices. If the price is closer to vive/oculus, then the competition is better in almost every way.
 
This is where Oculus has a HUGE advantage. Developers have had access to Rift devkits for around 3 years now and I've seen plenty of developers on various forums complaining that they can't get Vive devkits for love nor money.

HTC sent out 7000 devkits at the start of this year - Oculus must have sent out over 300,000 of the things by now.

That's one of the reasons why I'm getting a Rift instead of a Vive, the Rift will have a shitload more developer support. Right now there are plenty of games with Rift support - Elite Dangerous, DCS, War Thunder, Project CARS, Assetto Corsa and Alien Isolation to name a few off the top of my head. Will these all get Vive support on launch day..? Who knows..? But I'd put good money on them all getting Runtime 1.0 support for the Oculus Rift, even Elite Dangerous.

This is the most important factor for me. Dev Support and also for the VR maker to actually keep supporting the thing for the future. I don't want to spend $800 on a piece of junk that gets forgotten about next year.

Rift certainly seems like they will get better backing from Facebook money and seems to have a better roadmap for the future. If Rift dies, then Vive probably dies with it.

However, Vive just seems like a more ready final solution right now, it comes complete with room scale tracking and controllers, and I bet Rift doesn't see room scale until they move to Laser tracking on Rift 2.

Of the two, if Vive gets good sales in the first few months, that probably gives me enough confidence that it will stick around for a bit and I'll be more comfortable picking that up. Otherwise if Vive tanks, the choice will be more obvious and I'll get a rift. I don't want to get both devices.
 
I did a Vive demo last week. Played the Portal demo and a fruit slicing thing.

Both of them were really awesome experiences that I was happy to have exactly once. The fruit slicing demo had a lot of fun depth simply because of the controls, I played that 2-3 times. The Portal demo was impressive but it's basically a cutscene with limited interactivity. There was nothing to those experiences that left me wanting more.

There is no way that $800.00 is mass market. PSVR has a way better chance.

None of them are mass market. That isn't even the goal right now.
 
looks to be like things are setting up to be the exact same scenario as the XB1 and PS4 E3 price announcement.

PSVR is going to just undercut both. I pretty much figured it would be 100 under oculus after trying it at pax.
 
looks to be like things are setting up to be the exact same scenario as the XB1 and PS4 E3 price announcement.

PSVR is going to just undercut both. I pretty much figured it would be 100 under oculus after trying it at pax.

Yes, it looks like stars are ligning up for Sony once again.
 
Will wait at least a year to decide on either buying Oculus or Vive.

Not getting PSVR no matter how cheap it is revealed at, I have a feeling that it will be followed by an onslaught of high framerate cartoony games and janky PSmove/eye controlls kind of like that frisbee demo.

If it truly ends up being strictly attached to the ps4, it might age terribly compared to the other more open VR headsets, especially since today's high-end pc market will be much more affordable in 1-2 years time.
 
They aren't the cheapest?

They aren't.

osvr-og-image.png
This is.
 
Let's not pretend that scientific calculator level of VR is even in the conversation.

But tech and software wise, sony is closer to them. Also they don't really have room to grow. Mobile tech is getting better much, much faster.

And we don't even know if psvr will actually be "cheap".
 
Will wait at least a year to decide on either buying Oculus or Vive.

Not getting PSVR no matter how cheap it is revealed at, I have a feeling that it will be followed by an onslaught of high framerate cartoony games and janky PSmove/eye controlls kind of like that frisbee demo.

If it truly ends up being strictly attached to the ps4, it might age terribly compared to the other more open VR headsets, especially since today's high-end pc market will be much more affordable in 1-2 years time.

Yep I'm always slightly sceptical of Playstation peripherals for consoles

- PS2 hard drive
- PS2 network adapter
- PS move controllers
- PS TV recorder
- PS Vita TV
- PS Eye
 
At what point did Valve not understand the lessons console devs learnt the hard way with the Sega Saturn about sticker shock


Console newbs

Like everyone will buy the Oculus Rift to play third party, nobody will use the Valve room feature because idk why the average consumer event wants it, they just want a headset to play Elite Dangerous and American Trucking Simulator in pretty sure
 
These headsets turned out to be more expensive than we all thought back in DK2 days, I'm still getting this over an OR because it includes incredible VR controllers as standard, lighthouse and the chaperone system.

Being fair, an 2 Oculus Touch + extra camera will be 150
 
this is the dogwhistle for either knowing very little about the history of VR versus "VR", hmds, etc or choosing to view that history through a very selective and exaggerated perspective

and this is the ironclad proof

comparisons to the virtual boy have zero merit. very different climate. very different industries. very different tech. very different levels of support. very different underlying philosophies and intended experiences backing the hardware. very different range of potential applications.
virtual boy and dated hmds aren't vr, they were just called vr for lack of a more succinct and communicative marketing term.

that comparison is like... lets say that, last decade, I were to adopt the position that smartphones might fail to have any staying power beyond enthusiasts, using 'smartphones of the past' as my comparative metric...

and the 'smartphones of the past' i'd be referring to were pagers, you know, beepers.

that's about how valuable it is to compare today's VR to yesterday's 'VR' on pretty much any level. literally not at all.

So you're telling me it's illogical to compare new VR to old VR in terms of market appeal? The Virtual Boy was a vr headset, same as the rift, same as the vive.

They are newer, they are far better, but it's the same thing in principal.

Also as I said, "Other vr devices."

The Virtual Boy wasn't the only thing out there,
https://www.google.com/search?q=VR+...hXH6yYKHZ5DAYYQ_AUICCgD#imgrc=xm0znBMTDBfr9M:

The 90's had plenty of arcades with VR headsets, complete with motion controls even, both where you stood and sit down.


When you mention VR to almost any average person they are going to think of things like the Virtual Boy and the older headsets that you'd see at theme parks and other places to try because many people know of them and that's what they picture when they hear "VR."

All I said was that VR had came and failed before, and it has.

This go around I hope it doesn't, but to tell me that I can't state facts or that it's somehow irrelevant to use VR and how it failed once before to this makes no sense.

My entire point of the post you quoted was that VR isn't some new "technology" or "marvel of the world", that it's already tried (and failed) before to gain appeal or be successful and that this time they need to get over the hurdles of the past, lest they be doomed to go down the same road as thevirtual boy and other VR systems of that era.

A tip: you shouldn't speak without knowing what you are talking about (like, say, Virtual Boy). It just makes you sound ignorant.

Virtual boy was a VR headset without motion tracking, forgive me for not mentioning that huge difference.

Meanwhile you are aware that they DID have headsets in the 90's that did feature motion tracking? Complete with motion controls and other things, as I said, "other vr experiences."

You do also understand that almost anyone who knows of the Virtual boy associates it with VR? It just lacked some of the better technology, but even then it featured things better (like the first led screen for consumers).
 
No where near same discussion.

But it is. Right now they are not in very good position. Sony is stuck with closed platform that is hard to expand and that's not going to change any soon. Most people will see VR as smart phone accessory and there it's very easy to get people in. If people have to choose between high end and affordability, sony is not in that race. For average ps4 owner, the psvr is still going to be expensive and at that point, if they want to experience vr, mobile system is a very tempting option.
 
I think the big challenge that Sony and Valve both run up against in the long-run is content. Content creators are going to go to the device with the largest market, and that's where Oculus is kicking ass right now. App stores effectively snowball. And two marketing moves combined to show that Oculus knows this is their advantage and pressing it:
 
So you're telling me it's illogical to compare new VR to old VR in terms of market appeal? The Virtual Boy was a vr headset, same as the rift, same as the vive.

Tell Apple to pack up the iPhone, people don't want expensive PalmPilots that can't even send faxes.
 
PSVR gonna be taking some of everyone's cake at 349/399. I'm glad Sony learned their pricing lesson well with the PS3.

Oculus will own the PC/enthusiast market though. Vive would need HL3 launch title to compete.

I wonder how HoloLens will price...
 
But it is. Right now they are not in very good position. Sony is stuck with closed platform that is hard to expand and that's not going to change any soon. Most people will see VR as smart phone accessory and there it's very easy to get people in. If people have to choose between high end and affordability, sony is not in that race. For average ps4 owner, the psvr is still going to be expensive and at that point, if they want to experience vr, mobile system is a very tempting option.


This is going to haunt you. :)
 
So you're telling me it's illogical to compare new VR to old VR in terms of market appeal? The Virtual Boy was a vr headset, same as the rift, same as the vive.

They are newer, they are far better, but it's the same thing in principal.

Also as I said, "Other vr devices."

The Virtual Boy wasn't the only thing out there,
https://www.google.com/search?q=VR+...hXH6yYKHZ5DAYYQ_AUICCgD#imgrc=xm0znBMTDBfr9M:

The 90's had plenty of arcades with VR headsets, complete with motion controls even, both where you stood and sit down.


When you mention VR to almost any average person they are going to think of things like the Virtual Boy and the older headsets that you'd see at theme parks and other places to try because many people know of them and that's what they picture when they hear "VR."

All I said was that VR had came and failed before, and it has.

This go around I hope it doesn't, but to tell me that I can't state facts or that it's somehow irrelevant to use VR and how it failed once before to this makes no sense.

My entire point of the post you quoted was that VR isn't some new "technology" or "marvel of the world", that it's already tried (and failed) before to gain appeal or be successful and that this time they need to get over the hurdles of the past, lest they be doomed to go down the same road as thevirtual boy and other VR systems of that era.



Virtual boy was a VR headset without motion tracking, forgive me for not mentioning that huge difference.

Meanwhile you are aware that they DID have headsets in the 90's that did feature motion tracking? Complete with motion controls and other things, as I said, "other vr experiences."

You do also understand that almost anyone who knows of the Virtual boy associates it with VR? It just lacked some of the better technology, but even then it featured things better (like the first led screen for consumers).

The virtual boy was never particularly technically impressive, even in the context of the age in which it was released. It was no more a proper amalgam of VR than those transparent plastic overlays that came with the magnavox odyssey were of an actual video game playing field. To say that the virtual boy in its time was as transformative as these current VR headsets are today seems entirely disingenuous, to say nothing of the vastly different software/platform philosophies surrounding them.

Taking inflation into account, this is the most technically advanced and most relatively affordable consumer VR solution that has ever been built. There is no proper comparison.
 
PSVR gonna be taking some of everyone's cake at 349/399. I'm glad Sony learned their pricing lesson well with the PS3.

Oculus will own the PC/enthusiast market though. Vive would need HL3 launch title to compete.

I wonder how HoloLens will price...

Hololens has nothing to do with this but it'll likely run $1500-2000. It's essentially a bleeding edge ultrabook in the form of a HMD.
 
So you're telling me it's illogical to compare new VR to old VR in terms of market appeal? The Virtual Boy was a vr headset, same as the rift, same as the vive.

Same as a ViewMaster, same as binoculars, same as a hot towel?

VR isn't just any old thing that you put against your face.
 
Yeah, $599 is only affordable by the 1%.

Really, it's not that much if you're a financially stable individual and gaming is your hobby.

It is not a question of affordability. I can "afford" to buy it by withdrawing money from my bank account. People don't want to spend 600-800 for VR. That's it. A 300-400 entry level price is far more palatable.

I mean, the barrier to entry between PSVR and the oculus and Vive are huge. If the rumours are correct, the Oculus and Vive may be 50% to 100% more expensive than PSVR. That is not a difference you can shrug off by saying, "oh, but oculus and vive has better specs". If specs were everything, the titanx would be the best selling card right now, and not the 970.
 
I'd say as far as games go, PSVR already wins based on the games we know about so far. Games on GearVR are much like what you'd see on Android/iOS.

I don't agree with this. Herobound, Drift, Esper, Dead Secret and Dreadhalls don't remotely feel like mobile games to me personally.

I wonder how many pre-orders Samsung will take on the S7. That's going to be a good chunk of people getting Gear VRs...
 
Seems like PSVR is the only option left for us, average consumers. So long as Sony doesn't drop the ball.

Average consumer is not the same thing as a ps4 owner and people aren't going to start buying ps4's because psvr. If you are a committed ps4 user, psvr is realistically the only option for you. And at that point, it becomes the expensive option again.
 
Virtual boy was a VR headset without motion tracking, forgive me for not mentioning that huge difference.
Yeah, that's where your utter ignorance shines though. Virtual Boy had *NOTHING* to do with Virtual Reality, except the word "virtual" in its name. Aside from the name Nintendo never once marketed it as a virtual reality device. Virtual Boy was a tabletop Nintendo 3DS without color. It was a 2D tile-based portable game system that could display 4 shades of red and 1 shade of black. It did have a mode where rather than using tiles the developer could treat the screen like a bitmap, drawing full screen pictures every frame, so one single game used that to fake 3D rendering to have a Starfox-like game with line-art, maybe you somehow thought the entire library was like that? It wasn't even a headset, it was something you set down on a table and looked into.

Here's a couple examples of Virtual Boy games:

WarioLand.jpg

VerticalForce.png

large.jpg


Nobody would ever mistake that for any form of Virtual Reality. Saying the Virtual Boy is an example of virtual reality failing would be the same thing as saying a 3DS is an example of virtual reality being pretty successful.
 
To the people saying that the PSVR is going to be cheaper than either of them is wrong there is no way Sony is going to release the 2 pieces you need for it to work at a huge loss expect around $800-1000
 
VR for pc is too much for me. I'll need to buy a new gpu in addition to the vr. If I try it it will be PSVR. Sony is going to do well at that price.
 
Damn and I was laughing hard at Oculus with $599.

PlayStation save us. It may not be as impressive but the PSVR has a lower entry barrier due to the PS4 being cheaper than the PC needed for run the othe the head sets and Sony having some interesting IP that will most likely use it (No Man's Sky, Horizon, etc).
 
Damn and I was laughing hard at Oculus with $599.

PlayStation save us. It may not be as impressive but the PSVR has a lower entry barrier due to the PS4 being cheaper than the PC needed for run the othe the head sets and Sony having some interesting IP that will most likely use it (No Man's Sky, Horizon, etc).

No man's sky and horizon will definitely not run on PSVR, because they are 30 fps games.

You should be looking at 60fps games for that. Tekken, for instance, will have PSVR support.
 
The most powerful products in the market are not always the most popular or successful. Good luck to HTC and Oculus, but the market is still wide open for someone to undercut both and conquer the market with the right price and features. Google Cardboard and Samsung VR seem to be too cheap to have done so at this point but they can always improve. I guess now all eyes are on Sony with their VR platform to see if they can hit the sweet spot with price and features.
 
To the people saying that the PSVR is going to be cheaper than either of them is wrong there is no way Sony is going to release the 2 pieces you need for it to work at a huge loss expect around $800-1000

Zero chance that the PSVR is $800. Like less than zero.

It won't be priced anywhere near that.
 
Damn and I was laughing hard at Oculus with $599.

PlayStation save us. It may not be as impressive but the PSVR has a lower entry barrier due to the PS4 being cheaper than the PC needed for run the othe the head sets and Sony having some interesting IP that will most likely use it (No Man's Sky, Horizon, etc).

Are you serious?
 
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