The Witness - Spoiler Thread (plot related/large secrets/no-puzzle solutions)

The treehouse and marsh docks are within line-of-sight of each other. All you see is that a boat sinks at the other dock and then a boat rises at your dock.

So it's definitely (at least in-world) multiple boats. Plus the water in between doesn't get disturbed at all.

I always just assumed it was a boat attached to a track. I believe you can actually see the track when it comes up from the water. Perhaps there are two or more boats as well. One boat goes down and the other goes up.

I'm imagining a Disneyland style ride, like the jungle cruise.
 
I sadly kinda burnt out on The Witness once I got into the mountain.

I loved the different areas of the island and liked the progression quite a bit, but I started to get fatigued by most if the puzzles by the Town area when I felt like all I was doing was the same stuff I'd figured out already, but just harder (more tetris pieces, more black/white color separating, more color grouping, etc.).

Once I hit that point, solving puzzles stopped being satisfying like it had been and I was just wishing the game would wrap up. Instead of getting epiphanies on how to solve a puzzle, it just became relief that I finally stumbled on the right solution.

I wanted to do some of the areas I missed earlier in the game (the door behind the theater, and the one in the desert area by the water), but as soon as I saw them I knew they were just hard versions of stuff I've already done.

I thought that taking a break for a week or so would help me get back into it, but it did the opposite. Now it feels like all the practice I'd done the first 20 hours of the game (played it over a few days a LOT) slipped out of my brain, so when I see a hard puzzle it's even more exhausting.

Overall I definitely enjoyed the game even though the ending sections kinda soured me on it a bit. It definitely had a few moments that reminded me of the best moments from the old Myst games, and I definitely appreciated knowing what exactly the puzzles WERE (something that could be a struggle in Myst games).

I think part of this is that some the puzzles in the mountain are the least "fun" IMO. A lot of the difficulty in there is because of the restrictions they put on you or how they obstruct everything. The puzzles with the flashing light boards is a good example. Doable but just a pain in the ass. The grid puzzles that are slanted so you can't get a front view is another example
 
I think part of this is that some the puzzles in the mountain are the least "fun" IMO. A lot of the difficulty in there is because of the restrictions they put on you or how they obstruct everything. The puzzles with the flashing light boards is a good example. Doable but just a pain in the ass. The grid puzzles that are slanted so you can't get a front view is another example
Yeah these bugged me too. Most of the game, you're leveling up your game and learning logic. Then at the end, there are time limits, seizure-inducing flashing colors, blocked scrolling vision, etc.

It's even more of a contrast because some of the mountain puzzles ARE clever, like the LED floor, the light bridges, the pillars, and the simultaneous panels.
 
The flashing panel one was just so stupid. Someone thought giving people seizures is a fun idea. And the game doesn't have any of those health warnings either...Maybe he should go back and reconsider that one puzzle.

The only interesting puzzles in the mountain were the pillars. Even those can give you a headache but I like the feel of that room overall.
 
The flashing panel one was just so stupid. Someone thought giving people seizures is a fun idea. And the game doesn't have any of those health warnings either...Maybe he should go back and reconsider that one puzzle.

The only interesting puzzles in the mountain were the pillars. Even those can give you a headache but I like the feel of that room overall.

I actually just took a screenshot of those ones and solved them by just looking at that.
 
It's disappointing to hear that solving all the environmental puzzles doesn't open up some crazy secret area. They felt tedious to me. I just didn't get the same sense of progression with those than the when working toward a laser.
Some of them are, but most of them are really clever and rewarding to figure out. I love the ones that suddenly catch your eye, even though you've walked past it dozens of times before, or the ones that are layered within panel puzzles. Such meticulous design.
 
The only interesting puzzles in the mountain were the pillars. Even those can give you a headache but I like the feel of that room overall.

I didn't like the flashing puzzle either, but that is a shocking opinion. So many of the puzzles in the mountain were incredibly interesting. From the section of panels that need to be solved simultaneously to the floor puzzle on the bottom floor. There we some exceptional ideas in the mountain.
 
Overall I really liked the mountain. The last puzzles were really cool. There was a great stretch of puzzles at the end with the ones that are solved simultaneously, the double one that forms the path you need to walk on, the symmetry floor puzzle where you make the shape symbols through solutions to smaller puzzles and then finally the pillar puzzles which builds on earlier mechanics in the game, while introducing a cool new mechanic just at the final stretch of the game.

I can see why the stuff before that is more controversial though. Thing is, I feel these ones were deliberately designed to be frustrating and exhausting. They are not hard at all. But the game knows that you know that you are close to the end. Your instinct will be to try to push through them as quickly as possible, but the game punishes you for that, as that will make them even harder to complete. There is a meta-puzzle here to which the solution is to NOT rush, and to go through it slowly and methodically. Once you do, you will find them easy to complete.

This meta-puzzle has a second part which comes after you have completed them. These puzzles, especially the flashing ones, were deliberately designed to wear you down. After making sense of that sensory overload, your mind will be like jelly. If you immediately press on with the final stretch of very difficult puzzles I described in the first paragraph, you will be too tired to be able to solve them effectively. Once you have gotten past the previous annoying gauntlet, your instinct is to press on, because you are so close to the end. But the correct solution to this part of the meta-puzzle is to TAKE A FUCKING BREAK. Return the next day with fresh eyes and a fresh brain. The previous section was designed to wear you out for the next section. Don't fall into this trap. Outsmart the game by taking a break.

I don't know, I personally felt it was very cool. Still, I am very aware that I may just be extrapolating my own experience onto the supposed intention of the designer.
 
I enjoyed the Giant Bomb play/talk with Jonathon. Was fun seeing him screw up the challenge in the exact same stupid ways that I would (even if he made it in the end).
 
Overall I really liked the mountain. The last puzzles were really cool. There was a great stretch of puzzles at the end with the ones that are solved simultaneously, the double one that forms the path you need to walk on, the symmetry floor puzzle where you make the shape symbols through solutions to smaller puzzles and then finally the pillar puzzles which builds on earlier mechanics in the game, while introducing a cool new mechanic just at the final stretch of the game.

I can see why the stuff before that is more controversial though. Thing is, I feel these ones were deliberately designed to be frustrating and exhausting. They are not hard at all. But the game knows that you know that you are close to the end. Your instinct will be to try to push through them as quickly as possible, but the game punishes you for that, as that will make them even harder to complete. There is a meta-puzzle here to which the solution is to NOT rush, and to go through it slowly and methodically. Once you do, you will find them easy to complete.

This meta-puzzle has a second part which comes after you have completed them. These puzzles, especially the flashing ones, were deliberately designed to wear you down. After making sense of that sensory overload, your mind will be like jelly. If you immediately press on with the final stretch of very difficult puzzles I described in the first paragraph, you will be too tired to be able to solve them effectively. Once you have gotten past the previous annoying gauntlet, your instinct is to press on, because you are so close to the end. But the correct solution to this part of the meta-puzzle is to TAKE A FUCKING BREAK. Return the next day with fresh eyes and a fresh brain. The previous section was designed to wear you out for the next section. Don't fall into this trap. Outsmart the game by taking a break.

I don't know, I personally felt it was very cool. Still, I am very aware that I may just be extrapolating my own experience onto the supposed intention of the designer.

Yes, it is definitely one of these cool troll master tricks that Jon is an expert of.
 
Once you have gotten past the previous annoying gauntlet, your instinct is to press on, because you are so close to the end. But the correct solution to this part of the meta-puzzle is to TAKE A FUCKING BREAK. Return the next day with fresh eyes and a fresh brain. The previous section was designed to wear you out for the next section. Don't fall into this trap. Outsmart the game by taking a break.

I powered through the entire mountain up to the final pillars in one long night. Multiple breaks were taken in the middle, but I just kept pushing through half-hour stretches of doing nothing but staring at individual puzzles.

And it's like you said - my brain finally gave out at the pillars after all those hours. But the next day I was able to finish them in 20 minutes.
 
Just got the secret entrance FMV, was I supposed to get anything from that other than "Oh...interesting"? Or have people been pulling it apart for meaning? Ha.
 
Just got the secret entrance FMV, was I supposed to get anything from that other than "Oh...interesting"? Or have people been pulling it apart for meaning? Ha.
I thought the ending resort area was probably cooler than the ending video. I at least figured the video could be taken as a "real" ending though. The entire thing is a virtual reality game / simulation, and the video is from the perspective of someone who was playing it for a long time, thus the IV etc.

A few audio logs talk about it like an experiment involving dreams, memory etc., so one could imagine that tying in too.

When they start walking around, they have been in the simulation so long that they start seeing "O----" patterns everywhere, like some of us started doing in real life too.
 
I got that he was seeing things in his own environment, just wondered if people had been debating if they had a meaning that applied to the game at all...I figured this whole thing would play out like an ARG with people finding secrets.
 
I got that he was seeing things in his own environment, just wondered if people had been debating if they had a meaning that applied to the game at all...I figured this whole thing would play out like an ARG with people finding secrets.

There's a very great possibility that there are secrets that have yet to be found.
 
Someone on reddit thinks they've cracked the white flowers. I am not going to quote it all, the basics are it seems the X near the windmill is also a map, similar to the lake, for the perspective shifts like the turtle, praying women reflection, etc.. and the random white flowers out in the world are where the hidden cameras are, they even sway back and forth slowly. edit: seems I misread and they are saying the flowers are antennas for the hidden cameras. I don't know about all that, haven't actually booted up the game yet and checked it out myself.

WHITE FLOWERS SOLVED, reddit

Album with a few examples
 
I see now that the ending screens point out all the optical illusions around the island.

But that still doesn't match the locations of the flowers! Remember that one of them is underwater.
 
I took that flower in the desert to be a clue as to how to solve the puzzles in that area. When you look straight on at the puzzle, the monitor is blank. Move a little to one side and the reflections, (note it's plural) show up on the monitor.

Damnit, now I have to go back to the game and look at the flower on the hill by the big tree above the Quarry to see if it has any resemblance to the puzzles in that area.
 
The large decaying tree...any revelations with that?

There is a bunch of perspective shifts there, something like 5 faces that can be seen. Also most, probably all, the dead trees can be lined up with a cloud to make a... what would that part of a tree even be called... the leaf profile? The leafy bit? Leaf pillows?

Also, I've been tracking down the rest of the voice recorders, slowly. Found a couple more and they were yellow/orange, but the flower they opened on the lake was white, not yellow. So I don't know about the idea that yellow flowers map to yellow recorders unless it is a bug. The yellow voice recorder near the bunker on the beach maps to a white flower, that is all I know.
 
I see now that the ending screens point out all the optical illusions around the island.

But that still doesn't match the locations of the flowers! Remember that one of them is underwater.

Yeah, I don't bite the white flower maps (white flowers corresponding to locations of "perspective shifts").

The part regarding the screens showing locations of "perspective shifts" seems plausible. Typically:

xBv71Qn.png

 
I've started to go through and methodically do the environmental puzzles. Some of them are quite complicated to do, especially the ones in the castle, which almost necessitate note taking. It feels like I've found a whole other layer to the puzzles in this game now I've actively started to seek them out.
 
This was the line in particular that caught my eye, going to confirm now. I don't recall a monitor from the perspective of the flower in the chimney, we'll see.

Compare the views from the screens in the mountain to the locations you know of the flowers. Particularly the one that is above the head of the giant lady statute, or the one in the town chimney.
 
This was the line in particular that caught my eye, going to confirm now. I don't recall a monitor from the perspective of the flower in the chimney, we'll see.

I kept screenshots for reference. Here are all the monitors:

- Shady trees area, shadow of sitting girl on rock (doesn't match with the nearby flower, which was in the green logging area)
- Big tree overlooking quarry
- Quarry elevator
- Marsh cage optical illusion
- River
- Desert
- Outside the keep
- Statue at peninsula
 
I kept screenshots for reference. Here are all the monitors:

- Shady trees area, shadow of sitting girl on rock (doesn't match with the nearby flower, which was in the green logging area)
- Big tree overlooking quarry
- Quarry elevator
- Marsh cage optical illusion
- River
- Desert
- Outside the keep
- Statue at peninsula

They said in the mountain, not in the Resort. I looked through every monitor I could find in the mountain, a few are pretty tricky, but I feel comfortable I identified what each monitor is looking at and did not find any near the statue head or the fireplace in town, so I am calling bunk unless evidence of these monitors is found because I couldn't find them.

Going back through the Resort, though, it is pretty clear every monitor in there is revealing a perspective shift. The only one I could not identify was the soot at the top of the keep entryway, it vaguely looks like people and it isn't pointing at the Myst reference, which also vaguely looks to be in there. I don't recall anyone ever pointing out anything there?
 
They said in the mountain, not in the Resort. I looked through every monitor I could find in the mountain, a few are pretty tricky, but I feel comfortable I identified what each monitor is looking at and did not find any near the statue head or the fireplace in town, so I am calling bunk unless evidence of these monitors is found because I couldn't find them.

Going back through the Resort, though, it is pretty clear every monitor in there is revealing a perspective shift. The only one I could not identify was the soot at the top of the keep entryway, it vaguely looks like people and it isn't pointing at the Myst reference, which also vaguely looks to be in there. I don't recall anyone ever pointing out anything there?

I concur on the mountain monitors. And I can't think of anything outside the keep except for the soot with human silhouettes in it.

I think the most plausible explanation for the white flowers is that they're just hinting at something different in each case.

Symmetry flowers: puzzles with one visible and one invisible line
Desert flower: finding solutions in reflections
Logging area flower: ???
Treehouse flowers: the pairing rule for stars
Marsh flower: ???
Fireplace flower: the triangle panel hidden on top of the chimney
Statue head flower: the semi-hidden area below with an audio log, a triangle panel, and a +1
Mountaintop flower: ???
Windmill: ???

The thing is, if we assume each flower is hinting at something different, it's possible that at least one of these corresponds to something no one has found yet.

Edit: Six bonsais behind the windmill. Six obelisks. Six videos. What else are there six of?
 
Here is something about the island I have been going back and forth on so I guess I'll just mind dump it here and maybe the internet will set me straight.

TL;DR - Was the island designed, exactly as is, virtually and completely static, or has the island changed over time by people visiting it virtually, for example like a Minecraft server?


We know that the island is most likely a virtual construction. I am going to look at this under the assumption that it is a place that exists entirely in a computer and is not meant to be a real island on earth. Not because I think the latter is completely wrong. The evidence is stronger for the former.

If the island is a bunch of data in a computer that means a few things need to be considered if any through line for fiction is going to be found. I'll use Minecraft as a reference point. In Minecraft permanence is very important. If you are playing alone and dig a hole in the ground, then quit the game, when you go back you expect that hole to be exactly as you left it. If you are playing on a server with other people and dig a hole then quit the game, then someone may log in after you, fill that hole in or could build a giant pixel penis on top of it.

Some of the voice recorders you find in the secret cavern make it clear that multiple people 'go to the island', but a few things are not made clear.

Can multiple people visit the same island instance at the same time?
Obviously we cannot as the game has no multiplayer, but we are talking in the game's fiction. We are talking about the characters who made the voice recordings.

If there is a limit on the number of visitors, can character A visit character B's instance?
Again, we know I can't login to your island here in the real world, but in fiction can a character visit the same island instance as another character? Keep in mind that this game is heavily inspired by Myst, a game about visiting islands that are constructed by an author in a book.

If multiple characters can visit the same island instance, regardless of at the same time or not, can they change the island?
This is the actual thing I have been thinking about, so apologies for the long trip getting here. The reason I am having a hard time coming to a conclusion here is because if you subscribe to the idea that the island is a virtual construction then that could mean that everything about the island is designed exactly as it is meant to be. The island has no history. Why is all the office furniture inside the mountain thrown in? Is it because people on the island threw it all in there, or because it was specifically placed that way as it was being built in a computer?

Was the Quarry an actual functioning place, or was it designed to look like a place that was dug out? Was any glass ever produced in the glass house or was it just built to look that way?

Of course the answer here is yes, it was all designed. Literally the artists at Thekla built models and everything was placed how they wanted it, but in fiction, are we meant to believe that is also true, or does the island have a history? Did the characters physically construct the buildings in the town in the virtual world, the way people do in Minecraft? Or were the buildings designed outside of the virtual world by the same characters who recorded their voices, or even by someone else? Sorry if this was a bit hard to follow, sometimes getting stuff out of your brain is not the easiest thing.
 
I interpret all this by taking all the various quotes as mission statements for the creation of the island. I assume they are placed there to reveal the purpose of the island to visitors. Relevant passages:

Feynman:
It is a great adventure to contemplate the universe, beyond man, to contemplate the universe without man, as it was in a great part of its long history and as it is in a great majority of places. When this objective view is finally attained, and the mystery and majesty are fully appreciated to then turn the objective eye back on man viewed as matter, to see life as part of this universal mystery of greatest depth, is to sense an experience which is very rare and very exciting.
So the island is an experiment in creating a "universe without man" where the mysteries of the universe can be contemplated.

Zhuangzi:
In the first case there was no anger, in the second there was; because in the first case the boat was empty, and in the second it was occupied. And so it is with man. If he could only roam empty through life, who would be able to injure him?
You will never meet another person on the island. This ensures that you can remain at peace throughout the entire experience. (Obviously not true for us who are playing the game, since we know to direct our anger at Blow when we get stuck on a puzzle!)

Augustine:
And imagine if that moment were to go on and on, leaving behind all other sights and sounds but this one vision which ravishes and absorbs and fixes the beholder in joy; so that the rest of eternal life were like that moment of illumination which leaves us breathless: Would this not be what is bidden in scripture, Enter thou into the joy of thy Lord?
Both the Einstein and Feynman quotes hinted at achieving a religious experience through this contemplation. Augustine had the same notion many centuries ago, imagining the world fixed in a moment of eternal stillness. So nothing will ever change on the island.

But in order to create the illusion of a world frozen in time, you have to create the illusion that it was a living, changing world. Therefore, we see people frozen as statues, we see evidence of the progress and destruction of civilization, and we see hints of things left seemingly unfinished.
 
I thought of Braid as a lesson on love and regret, and I see the witness as a rumination on experience and creation.

I don't think there is anything quite as revelatory as andromeda and the nuclear bomb in The Witness, but the meditations on human knowledge and experience, religion and so forth, make for an enjoyable thematic canvas.

This is absolutely a different game than braid, so I don't think we should hold it to the same fictional aspirations.
 
I thought of Braid as a lesson on love and regret, and I see the witness as a rumination on experience and creation.

I don't think there is anything quite as revelatory as andromeda and the nuclear bomb in The Witness, but the meditations on human knowledge and experience, religion and so forth, make for an enjoyable thematic canvas.

This is absolutely a different game than braid, so I don't think we should hold it to the same fictional aspirations.

In the interview with Giant Bomb, Jon Blow said the game originally started narrative heavy and he struggled over the development of how present he wanted it to be. In the end he settled on..

https://youtu.be/jhEDARvLf90?t=2932
I eventually diminished the story stuff until it's like six things that are hidden and barely in the game. That a lot of people will never hear.

So the game still has fictional aspirations beyond the thematic. How much of that we are able to glean from what is left is up in there air, but it is there.
 
So the game still has fictional aspirations beyond the thematic. How much of that we are able to glean from what is left is up in there air, but it is there.

If he had gone with the original plan (intensely personal story about the creator of the island), it probably would have gotten much of the same reaction as Braid. Readings of the game as autobiographical, for a start.

Even now everyone assumes Blow himself is the statue at the bottom of the mountain (this could easily be the island's "creator" from the previous version of the story) and the person in the secret ending video.

So there was clearly a decision to make the game as impersonal as possible. And while some people complain about that, just imagine how people would have run away with the story if it had been some guy narrating his life to you.

Going back to the white flowers: the ones behind the windmill are exactly half in shadow and half in light. Does this mean there is something nearby that can be divided in half somehow? There are no black/white puzzles around except the theater doors down below...
 
can anyone tell me how you were supposed to solve this one?
https://youtu.be/0-BuYY4arX8?t=1294

i just brute forced it and it worked, no idea how.

After you solve the 4 initial puzzles on the floor, the whole floor lights up and becomes a symmetry puzzle. You then have to pick the right shapes from each of the 4 initial puzzles and then arrange them into a symmetrical shape that fits into the larger floor puzzle.
 
Going back to the white flowers: the ones behind the windmill are exactly half in shadow and half in light. Does this mean there is something nearby that can be divided in half somehow? There are no black/white puzzles around except the theater doors down below...

I noticed this as well. Really hard to tell if coincidence or not but good to be aware of.
 
You can't ever see the back of the doors leading into the theater (they open up tight against the walls), unless you get into the challenge before ever opening up the theater (you definitely can't see the doors from the big hole above).

Could it possibly be worth it to beat the whole game again just to see what's on the back of those doors? Which is quite possibly nothing?
 
You can't ever see the back of the doors leading into the theater (they open up tight against the walls), unless you get into the challenge before ever opening up the theater (you definitely can't see the doors from the big hole above).

Could it possibly be worth it to beat the whole game again just to see what's on the back of those doors? Which is quite possibly nothing?

Would that not be easier to check by just using the noclip mode on PC?
 
You can't ever see the back of the doors leading into the theater (they open up tight against the walls), unless you get into the challenge before ever opening up the theater (you definitely can't see the doors from the big hole above).

Could it possibly be worth it to beat the whole game again just to see what's on the back of those doors? Which is quite possibly nothing?

I'm pretty sure you only can access the theater through that door. I don't think you actually can see the other side of those doors.
 
I mean, you can look down on the theater from the walkway above and through the big hole further above. You can see the doors from the walkway since it happens to run perpendicular.

Would that not be easier to check by just using the noclip mode on PC?

So you can still enable noclip? Yeah, that would be much better.
 
I mean, you can look down on the theater from the walkway above and through the big hole further above. You can see the doors from the walkway since it happens to run perpendicular.

Oh, you don't mean physically standing there.

I wonder if a puzzle like that would even be viable on console? I'm pretty sure Blow mentioned something about how every puzzle has to be viable on PS4, so basically no obscure, small puzzles in the distance which could be too hard to make out for console players. Not that it's a particularly long distance in this case, it's just that it wouldn't follow the general idea of the rest of the game.

... but on the other hand it doesn't always conform to that either, so who knows!
 
What are everyone's thoughts on the burnt treehouse with the red and orange leaves on top of it? If you make your way to the remains, and view the tree from the right angle, it looks like a man or God stoking fire at his feet.

At first I thought that it was a sign that man made contact with Gods upon the island, and incurred their wrath. But after seeing the ending and how the island is artificial, I don't know what to make of the treehouse anymore :/
 
What are everyone's thoughts on the burnt treehouse with the red and orange leaves on top of it? If you make your way to the remains, and view the tree from the right angle, it looks like a man or God stoking fire at his feet.

At first I thought that it was a sign that man made contact with Gods upon the island, and incurred their wrath. But after seeing the ending and how the island is artificial, I don't know what to make of the treehouse anymore :/

Isn't it someone praying?
 
It didn't look like that to me. Looks like someone with a long tool hitting poking the ground, while the leaves resemble fire.

Ohhh yeah, that's right. That's pretty cool! Never looked at it from that angle.

I just thought it was a praying woman, just like the horizontal one by the water.
 
Ohhh yeah, that's right. That's pretty cool! Never looked at it from that angle.

I just thought it was praying woman, just like the horizontal one by the water.

Nice, glad you got to experience that! :]

It's kinda spooky, if you ask me, and I suspect that it's one of the few elements from Blow's old version of the island's story that he said he left behind in the current build of the game
 
When you come into the basement under the windmill, there is a door to the left that is opened from the other side. I cannot figure out how to get on the other side. I beat the game with all 11 lasers--just haven't been in that section, I guess :/
 
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