The Witness - Spoiler Thread (plot related/large secrets/no-puzzle solutions)

Just noticed this in the OP. What is this referring to?

There's a different video you can see on youtube for the end of the credits area. Actually that was the pre-release video, and the latest video (apparently filmed just a week before launch, as per Blow's twitter account) was "upgraded" with more screetime and the IV stuff.

So there's no secret to unlocking a different video. Every post release install will see the IV video.
 
This is probably just some weird lighting model/draw distance bug, but the behavior is so strange I figured I would throw it out there. Also the behavior changes depending on how you approach so it might be a little difficult to explain. If you stand on the dock of the cove that is next to the starting area and look at the glass cylinder from the gate mechanism it will sometimes be white and sometimes be black. Also the reflection in the water will also change depending on position.

If you come in using the boat heading from the glass building near Symmetry the cylinder above and below water will be black until you pass a certain bush which obscures the cylinder in the water. When the boat has moved far enough that brings it back into view the cylinder is white. Once you reach the dock and get off the boat if you walk over to the ramp the cylinder above water will also change to white.

The behavior is slightly different if you go the other way. Like I said it is probably a weird bug in the lighting model deciding how that surface type (glass I assume) should be lit. But again it is so strange I couldn't ignore it. Check it out for yourself.

Edit: Got a sequence of screenshots to demonstrate. Click to make big. Look at the cylinder from the gate above and below water both before and after the bush passes (center-ish of the image):
QQIBiIT.jpg

IrrVTYE.jpg

NmRgD08.jpg



There's a different video...

Ah, good to know, thanks.
 
This is probably just some weird lighting model/draw distance bug, but the behavior is so strange I figured I would throw it out there. Also the behavior changes depending on how you approach so it might be a little difficult to explain. If you stand on the dock of the cove that is next to the starting area and look at the glass cylinder from the gate mechanism it will sometimes be white and sometimes be black. Also the reflection in the water will also change depending on position.

If you come in using the boat heading from the glass building near Symmetry the cylinder above and below water will be black until you pass a certain bush which obscures the cylinder in the water. When the boat has moved far enough that brings it back into view the cylinder is white. Once you reach the dock and get off the boat if you walk over to the ramp the cylinder above water will also change to white.

The behavior is slightly different if you go the other way. Like I said it is probably a weird bug in the lighting model deciding how that surface type (glass I assume) should be lit. But again it is so strange I couldn't ignore it. Check it out for yourself.

Edit: Got a sequence of screenshots to demonstrate. Click to make big. Look at the water:






Ah, good to know, thanks.

I am blind it seems. Could you show where to look at on one of the picture?
 
I am blind it seems. Could you show where to look at on one of the picture?

Look at the reflection of the little black spot in the water in the third picture.

Another loose end: all the seats placed all around the island. Sofas, chairs, cushions, carpets... Are they telling us to sit and look in certain directions? Some are pointed out at the ocean, but others are just pointed at blank walls.

I would even count the stool with the apple slices in the orchard, since it also has the "hotel" symbol.

Has anyone tried "sitting" on one of these, and then just letting the game run?
 
Someone found this over on reddit. Way too deliberate of a pattern on those purple canisters.


Another loose end: all the seats placed all around the island. Sofas, chairs, cushions, carpets... Are they telling us to sit and look in certain directions? Some are pointed out at the ocean, but others are just pointed at blank walls.

Aren't these always pointed in the general direction of a particularly tricky environmental puzzle? Going off memory so I could be totally wrong but the couple I can recall seem to be suggesting "yes, this one is tricky, think about it a bit."
 
Yeah, as they mentioned as a binary value it is 48,842. Which could mean anything and could mean nothing but definitely something to be catalogued.

Code to enter with the pots? There was 8 right? Or was there 6?

I refuse to give up that the pots are nothing more than a + puzzle.
 
This is probably just some weird lighting model/draw distance bug, but the behavior is so strange I figured I would throw it out there. Also the behavior changes depending on how you approach so it might be a little difficult to explain. If you stand on the dock of the cove that is next to the starting area and look at the glass cylinder from the gate mechanism it will sometimes be white and sometimes be black. Also the reflection in the water will also change depending on position.

It's probably simply an LOD thing; from time to time in normal play you'll see objects sort of 'dissolve' into a more detailed model on approaching.

Looks like, for whatever reason, the LOD for that pillar was only configured for the 'on' status at a distance (presumably because it's most noticeable from a distance when you're seeing the island from above after going through the secret door?). And I'd suspect the mismatch between the 'surface' pillar and the 'reflection' pillar is simply that the reflection pillar is slightly further away at certain positions, so would use a different LOD level.
 
Which pots? I'm sure I've seen whatever they are but for some reason not ringing a bell at all.

The pots you can raise and lower in the boat house like building next to symmetry. All it's used for right now is to get a +puzzle from the roof and that just seems like an elaborate way to get one puzzle. Same with the floor puzzle at the start.
 
The pots you can raise and lower in the boat house like building next to symmetry. All it's used for right now is to get a +puzzle from the roof and that just seems like an elaborate way to get one puzzle. Same with the floor puzzle at the start.

Oh, Right. Of course. Possibly. I'll let it bounce around the old noodle.

The most obvious unsolved bit is why many (possibly all?) the puzzles in the secret cave have multiple solutions.
 
The pots you can raise and lower in the boat house like building next to symmetry. All it's used for right now is to get a +puzzle from the roof and that just seems like an elaborate way to get one puzzle. Same with the floor puzzle at the start.

This isn't the first time I've heard of this, but what do you mean by raising and lowering the pots? I don't believe I noticed anyway to do that, though I did get the hidden line using the yellow pot and the doorway.
 
This isn't the first time I've heard of this, but what do you mean by raising and lowering the pots? I don't believe I noticed anyway to do that, though I did get the hidden line using the yellow pot and the doorway.

Not sure if you want a full answer or not so I'll give both.

Hint:
The shape of the pots is used in some way.

Answer:
The different solutions for the door to get in there determines what pot is raised.
 
If there is something more to the pots, like that number, pretty sure there are 8 of them. Not 6. So it could be oct (and by extension hex) rather than dec. So all values considered:

BIN: 1011111011001010
OCT: 137312
DEC: 48842
HEX: BECA

Could be something like entering the same number in different parts of the island. 137312 at the pots. BECA at the floor puzzles in the secret cave with multiple solutions, need a bin and dec spot then, I guess.
 
Has anyone noticed that when you turn on the record player in the cave and then go to exit the cave, the sound dies out, but when you go to the town you can hear the music playing again? And if you go to the monastery you can hear the music really loudly. I wonder if this could this be pointing to something?
 
This isn't the first time I've heard of this, but what do you mean by raising and lowering the pots? I don't believe I noticed anyway to do that, though I did get the hidden line using the yellow pot and the doorway.

I feel like everyone just raises the yellow vase and then gets the associated +1 without even realizing what they did. I definitely did.

(And there are theories floating around out there that the vases can be used to enter some kind of color code.)

Speaking of colors, is there still no consensus on why some voice recorders and flowers in the lake happen to be yellow?

Has anyone noticed that when you turn on the record player in the cave and then go to exit the cave, the sound dies out, but when you go to the town you can hear the music playing again? And if you go to the monastery you can hear the music really loudly. I wonder if this could this be pointing to something?

The challenge would have to be under that area, right? Since there is a nearby exit through the house in the town.

Although the geometry gets complicated when you also have to sandwich in the caves overlooking the challenge in the sky hotel.
 
If there is something more to the pots, like that number, pretty sure there are 8 of them. Not 6. So it could be oct (and by extension hex) rather than dec. So all values considered:

BIN: 1011111011001010
OCT: 137312
DEC: 48842
HEX: BECA

Could be something like entering the same number in different parts of the island. 137312 at the pots. BECA at the floor puzzles in the secret cave with multiple solutions, need a bin and dec spot then, I guess.

The only things that I have noticed are that:
  • Each pot encodes a 3-digit binary number, since there are 3 levels to a pot (top, middle, bottom) and each level is either thick or thin. For instance, (thick top)-(thin middle)-(thick bottom) is 101.
  • All possibilities of pots are represented, hence the 8 pots.
  • Pots are paired, and the pairing is such that the sum of the two numbers is 111 (8).
 
The challenge would have to be under that area, right? Since there is a nearby exit through the house in the town.

Although the geometry gets complicated when you also have to sandwich in the caves overlooking the challenge in the sky hotel.

I thought it might just be that, but I couldn't find a contiguous path between the town and monastery where the sound remains intact like you'd expect. Also, the exit to the town from the cave is quite a distance from the music box so it was really jarring that it comes back so clearly.
 
The only things that I have noticed are that:
  • Each pot encodes a 3-digit binary number, since there are 3 levels to a pot (top, middle, bottom) and each level is either thick or thin. For instance, (thick top)-(thin middle)-(thick bottom) is 101.
  • All possibilities of pots are represented, hence the 8 pots.
  • Pots are paired, and the pairing is such that the sum of the two numbers is 111 (8).

I don't get why so many people are focused on the "binary" thing regarding the pots. Yes it's a way to represent the positions, but it's completely arbitrary. It's just all the combinations available from 3 switches that are on/off (so 8). Binary is just one way to represent it. It's not "binary numbers", it's just 8 rearrangements you can chose to represent in binary form if you want.
 
I don't get why so many people are focused on the "binary" thing regarding the pots. Yes it's a way to represent the positions, but it's completely arbitrary. It's just all the combinations available from 3 switches that are on/off (so 8). Binary is just one way to represent it. It's not "binary numbers", it's just 8 rearrangements you can chose to represent in binary form if you want.

Sure, agreed. Was just throwing out ideas since I am away from the game and can't test things myself.

It is also just as possible that it is a tribute from someone on the dev team whose nickname for someone close to them is "Beca" or whatever. It is a data point to be aware of that looks clearly placed their intentionally but we don't need to go crazy on it.
 
I don't get why so many people are focused on the "binary" thing regarding the pots. Yes it's a way to represent the positions, but it's completely arbitrary. It's just all the combinations available from 3 switches that are on/off (so 8). Binary is just one way to represent it. It's not "binary numbers", it's just 8 rearrangements you can chose to represent in binary form if you want.

The layout is not arbitrary: the sum of two linked pots is always 8, i.e. if one part of a pot is thick, then the part of the symmetric pot is thin, and vice-versa.

Green: thick-thick-thick ; Blue: thin-thick-thick ; Pink: thick-thin-thick ; Orange: thin-thin-thick
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=610204575

Yellow: thin-thin-thin ; Red: thick-thin-thin ; Green: thin-thick-thin ; Blue: thick-thick-thin
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=610204625

So the layout is not arbitrary, and a binary representation explains the layout. The only arbitrary thing is whether top/bot is associated to 4/0 or to 0/4, but it has no impact on the explanation.

pDcytH1.png


left --- right
111 --- 000 further away drom the door
011 --- 100
101 --- 010
001 --- 110 closer to the door

especially in a place like this one:

 
Couldn't it just be explained as an additional layer of symmetry? Each pair of pots complementing each other is another kind of "symmetry."
 
The layout is not arbitrary: the sum of two linked pots is always 8, i.e. if one part of a pot is thick, then the part of the symmetric pot is thin, and vice-versa.

That's interesting, but matching pots absolutely don't require binary notation/numbers to be effective. It's a smart way to present all the possibilities tho, and it could very well be used for something. I just don't think we need to go through actually encoding 1's and 0's to come to those conclusions.
 
Whelp just finished my platinum so I'm hopping over here for some post game festivities. Haven't even started any of those weird pillars or whatever they are. Thought I'd share my challenge mode finish though. Took me about an hour and a half to complete it and I didn't use the rest mode at all. I did take a picture of the 4th puzzle with my phone, which ended up failing me anyway. I almost came close to beating it once by literally a second and failed as I was drawing the final line, probably all that time wasted taking a photo. I got to the pillars maybe 6-7 times with barely any time left. I got pretty lucky with the puzzles in this run, especially the last pillar.

Here's the video, cross-posted from the OT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhsKUUzyxDs
 
questions
I think it would be fun to ask some people who have 'finished' the game ( or quit the game halfway through ) some general questions:

Cross-posting an answer here so we don't flood the OT with a wall of black. Will like Tiemen to here.

At this point I think I am done with the game. I may come back later for the + puzzles. 400 puzzles including however many were in the challenge, no +puzzles or anything

1 ) I still have no clue what they are or how I even do them, I'll leave that for later.

2 ) I heard about the challenge from the trophies and used a guide to get to the challenge as I was tiring of the game after beating it but wanted to test my skills. I didn't know anything about the challenge itself beyond that it was timed

3 ) I found it moderately difficult. The hardest part was getting turned around in the labyrinth until I took the time to take a picture of that puzzle with my phone (but I still went through slow to find the puzzles). It took me a few tries before I even realized that that puzzle was a representation. Finding two arrow puzzles in it tipped me off. I still haven't figured out the mechanic but when you have to solve one of the three puzzles twice I'm assuming two are impossible? I tried to glance at each one quickly to see if an obvious solution was available and often moved to a different panel if the solution wasn't there immediately for me. Sometimes this took me too long, along with the tetromino puzzle in the 1 of 4 part. The arrow puzzles in the labyrinth were the hardest because I hadn't had much practice with them out in the wild. I got progressively better every time I did the challenge, getting through to the Labyrinth faster and faster.

4 ) I don't know the exact number, but I started at about 9:00pm and finished around 11:00pm. I stopped a few times to talk to the girlfriend, so about an hour and a half. About half the time I ran the timer to the ground and the other half I restarted when I failed a puzzle so maybe 25 tries?

5 ) I actually found that mirror first before finding the desert laser and had already turned it arbitrarily to see what it would do. So I saw that when I activated the laser it reflected away from the mountain and immediately remembered the mirror I had touched a few hours earlier.

6 ) Tetromino's blew my mind every time. It took a very long time for me to get used to the swap mechanic. But the single puzzle that I had the hardest time with was probably the hedge maze where the sound was a cue for the path. I had the sound off :P Everything else was pretty well logic bound so not too difficult. I had a lot of trouble with the jungle pitches after figuring out the concept and my partial color blindless was a pain in the Bunker. The hardest puzzle straight up, not because of outside influences, may have been the floor puzzle in the mountain. Again tetrominos.
 
People noticed this with the floor puzzles but it seems like all the puzzles in the secret cave can use a repeated solution until you get to the last one which sequence breaks by doing stuff like moving the start/end position, making it seemingly impossible to repeat the solution the whole way through.


I didn't have time to solve the tetrimino puzzles downstairs this morning, but it seems to hold true there with the exception of the sequence break being the last set of puzzles instead of just one (there are a bunch down there)

I also noticed that over by the color puzzle each one there is unique, in the type of puzzle but also in size (4x4, 5x5, etc..) It could be that those serve as a key for the rest of the puzzles in the cave.

Just speculating on things I noticed and can't test out myself because "work" or whatever adult responsibilities the world has today.
 
The + puzzles are blowing my mind, just figured them out and been hunting. I see a lot that I can't seem to get into position yet for. This one was cool getting lined up perfectly:


Was very wrong about this game, the panel puzzles didn't do much for me, but now that I'm mostly done with those this environment hunting has been very fun. Up to 22 already in about an hour and a half.

Just found the one connecting all the hedge mazes too, that tower is amazing right now for these.

Pretty difficult Keep + puzzle that I had to solve this way, not sure if there was another way but a lot of the Keep + puzzles I had to enter backwards or manipulate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5PHjGzQPUU
 
I think it was Giant Bomb that mentioned the end was something really cool but unspoilable by its very nature, if I took the ride in the glass elevator and reset the game, have I not seen what they were talking about yet?
 
I think it was Giant Bomb that mentioned the end was something really cool but unspoilable by its very nature, if I took the ride in the glass elevator and reset the game, have I not seen what they were talking about yet?
There's definitely another section and ending to see besides that. Have you finished all the lasers?
 
There's definitely another section and ending to see besides that. Have you finished all the lasers?
I have a few left. I'm still trying to find this "whoa" moment that people seem to have encountered, but after the initial completion I can say the game doesn't like to offer very much feedback. I know it's the philosophy of the design, but it can also be alienating to 90% of players.
 
I have a few left. I'm still trying to find this "whoa" moment that people seem to have encountered, but after the initial completion I can say the game doesn't like to offer very much feedback. I know it's the philosophy of the design, but it can also be alienating to 90% of players.
I'm not sure there's "whoa" moment for some players. When I figured out my first couple of +1 puzzles, which happened very early, that was neat. When I went through the mountain, that was neat.

When I got into the final area and explored it, and finished the challenge, that was fairly cool. The other ending is just a nice area with credit audio logs, and a trippy ending sequence / video.

I think the game by design is not necessarily supposed to give you a rewarding feeling other than the feeling of logically deducing puzzle mechanics as you go. The audio logs and videos talk about not seeking after a goal but just doing whatever...something like that. I didn't care for the philosophical part.


If you ARE interested in continuing, I definitely recommend figuring it out on your own or with minimal hints (such as the area to search to enter the final area) since that's when the game is most rewarding.
 
I just read a claim that even if noclip mode is activated, secret areas don't appear in the game world until they are unlocked for real.

Is this for real or just wishful thinking to justify secret-hunting?
 
I just read a claim that even if noclip mode is activated, secret areas don't appear in the game world until they are unlocked for real.

Is this for real or just wishful thinking to justify secret-hunting?
The only secret area I'm aware of is the endgame in the sky, which only appears when needed (because it blocks an exit and would be visible in the sky).
 
Before the game came out and I was gushing in coded ways about an "oh shit" moment in it, I was referring to the FMV ending mainly, and to a lesser extent everything in the mountain and the +1 puzzles.

You have to understand that critics and journalists are playing this game in a vacuum. We have NO help solving the puzzles, NO context for how big this game is and what it's building towards.

It's a crazy, crazy feeling to have played this secret and puzzle-filled game for dozens and dozens of hours (no help on any of the puzzles was available remember), and then, when you think you've uncovered it all, you find a crazy FMV sequence set in the real world that, among other things, actually explains the piss bottle.

It was completely and utterly unexpected, and an almost unbelievable thing to find after 50+ hours spent.

Very few members of the general public probably experienced that feeling, because even if they didn't have it spoiled for them explicitly, they probably heard rumblings about multiple endings, rumblings about a crazy something waiting for them at the end.

The game peels back layers of itself at least 5-6 times: the +1 puzzles, the extensiveness of the puzzles inside the mountain, the cave system, the FMV/hotel ending, the coded meaning of the flowers and other elements around the lake.

I've never experienced anything else like that.
 
An interesting thing that Luis Antonio addresses, and something that's been bugging me, is the cable that runs to the bottom of the mountain to where the 'designer' is sitting at the triangle panel, in the red room.

Another custom cable was the special yellow one in the mountain:

shot_2016.02.05__time_23_28_n03-1024x576.png

http://www.artofluis.com/3d-work/the-art-of-the-witness/panels-cables-lasers-and-more-panels/

It looks like a two colored cable, and in the red room has a blueish hue upon exiting the panel, implying it might have another power source or is somehow a symmetrical solution cable, and the designer confirms it's a unique cable rather than a regular one. The blue color disappears when the 'yellow' solution is entered, so unlike the symmetry cables in its respective area, these ones don't light up at the same time. I'm not sure if there are other cases of a single cable being able to output two different colors, so perhaps this is the way in which it is unique. Thus, I wonder if there is a blue solution to that panel that could open another cave area. If that could be possible, then perhaps a blue power source is necessary also, which could trigger a panel display change?

Perhaps that blue thing is irrelevant, but it's still peculiar that they used a custom cable for this power line if all it had to do was to be off until powered, which is how all other cables work.
 
I'm not sure there's "whoa" moment for some players. [...] I think the game by design is not necessarily supposed to give you a rewarding feeling other than the feeling of logically deducing puzzle mechanics as you go.

Several "whoa" moments occurred for me once I figured out some puzzle rules, solved a few puzzles in a row and then encountered a troll-puzzle, i.e. a puzzle panel in which Blow was trying to troll the player by playing around the rule in a tricky manner. The "whoa" in this case was more about linking intellectually with the creator of the game.
 
The whoa moment for most people is the + puzzles.

I just read a claim that even if noclip mode is activated, secret areas don't appear in the game world until they are unlocked for real.

Is this for real or just wishful thinking to justify secret-hunting?

Technically it's trivial to do, and is a common optimization in some games, but for that specific case it's hard to tell.
 
I just read a claim that even if noclip mode is activated, secret areas don't appear in the game world until they are unlocked for real.

Is this for real or just wishful thinking to justify secret-hunting?

The geometry and similar data is likely not spawned in until you do something like activate the gate + so it makes sense that noclip would do nothing to reveal a place like the Resort. That is why people are datamining to try and see if they can find any assets that stand out, but this can lead to loads of red herrings.

The best way to search for secrets is to analyze what is known and disregard phantoms.

We know the last count of puzzles was 667, but we have not reached that number.
We know the secret cavern has some unusual properties.
We know there is cryptic stuff all over that has not found purpose yet..
Triangle puzzles being tracked in the lake. Triangle sketches in the Resort. VO boxes of different colors. Windmill 'X' stopping position, map, flowers. The purple binary canisters. etc..

There is plenty of good reason to believe there is still something to be discovered.
 
There is another "hidden" area but it's a bit stupid: The entrance tunnel at the start of the game actually overlaps with the cliffs outside of the courtyard walls, so the entrance tunnel is made invisible once you're out of the courtyard.
 
There is another "hidden" area but it's a bit stupid: The entrance tunnel at the start of the game actually overlaps with the cliffs outside of the courtyard walls, so the entrance tunnel is made invisible once you're out of the courtyard.

When I started the game I thought for sure there would be an explanation for what's making all that noise in the entrance tunnel. Now it turns out it doesn't even fit into the geometry...

Hopefully Blow will at least drop some kind of hint in today's AMA if asked about all the loose ends.
 
When I started the game I thought for sure there would be an explanation for what's making all that noise in the entrance tunnel. Now it turns out it doesn't even fit into the geometry...

Hopefully Blow will at least drop some kind of hint in today's AMA if asked about all the loose ends.

I was wondering the same about a lot of sound that can be heard around the rocks and small trees just outside the starting gate.
 
I feel like the boats might be a loose end that few people have raised so far.

There are clearly multiple boats. That is the only way that you can summon one instantly from underwater at any dock. Furthermore, we can clearly see that the wrecked boat at the ending elevator is the same kind of boat, which unambiguously tells you that there are multiples.

The question is, does the game actually track multiple unique boats, or just teleport a single boat around interchangeably?
 
Has it been discovered which puzzle caused the yellow pot to lift up? Now that I've done everything in the game I'm finally looking into finding what will obviously be the big big secret.

Was it tied to solving the pillar and floor/flower puzzles in the tutorial area?
 
Has it been discovered which puzzle caused the yellow pot to lift up? Now that I've done everything in the game I'm finally looking into finding what will obviously be the big big secret.

Was it tied to solving the pillar and floor/flower puzzles in the tutorial area?

It's the entrance door puzzle. Draw any shape and you lift the pot with the same shape.
 
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