I wasn't accusing James of racism, that wasn't clear.
That said, I don't understand why Tobi still gets invited to stuff. Really makes no sense.
VALVE fires DOTA tourney host, Gabe Newell calls the host "an ass" publicly on Reddit
- Thread starter Abilidebob
- Start date
That said, I don't understand why Tobi still gets invited to stuff. Really makes no sense.
If Gabe is saying he's an ass then his assholeness extends past his caster persona. I highly doubt he was sacked for the character he plays.
chaobreaker
Member
Tbh I saw comments about him calling EE autistic on stream on multiple sites and didn't fact check. He probably didn't and I regret spreading misinformation like that. Egg on my face and all that jazz.
NaDannMaGoGo
Member
What a disaster production. Though one still has to wonder how they got the job after failing previously.
Bar81
Member
But for someone to think that the guy isn't a general ass shows that Valve's management is not really good at understanding people. If he's an ass on video (and he is a big one) he's just an ass - it's not something that can be turned off off camera.
longdi
Banned
The only internet game casting i watched, more than once, was Coh2.
I thought those were enjoyable and 'professional', considering they are fan-made productions.
I cant believe 'real' professional production teams can spend that much money and create so much drama on something like game casting...
I thought those were enjoyable and 'professional', considering they are fan-made productions.
I cant believe 'real' professional production teams can spend that much money and create so much drama on something like game casting...
Woo-Fu
Banned
I wouldn't be surprised if that decision was initially made by Perfect World.
JoeyJungle
Banned
Sounds like their Chinese stream was okay, but the director for the foreign stream was completely incompetent and they understaffed and under-equipped it as well.
Aeriscloud
Banned
I like the guy that hosted this past TI, and Frankfurt. I think he's really good.
NaDannMaGoGo
Member
Yeh, the most likely reason.
If the case, kinda funny that valve ultimately still throws in their weight when production of their major is too shitty to accept. Even Perfect World's gonna falter then I guess.
BlastProcessing
Member
I generally agree with you, but there was nothing professional about the production crew here.
The whole thing's a mess.
AnathemicOne
Banned
Eh? Didn't this guy appear on the analyst desk for International 2013? He didn't seem like an ass while I was watching that (or I just don't remember), wtf happened here?
Still waiting on a statement from him, but most likely it was something off screen.
Perhaps he got let go because he was critical of the production instead of going along with it and attributing it to technical difficulties. Stuff like:
"3 million tournament. Check out our production values guys. Look at this whiteboard"
or
"We're supposed to go to an overlay right now. Just waiting for the production team guys. Any time now. C'mon guys. We'll keep talking till it happens. Any time now"
or
"So the first game's supposed to start at 9 am. So let's go back 30 minutes in time and go to the first game"
He's someone who ribs everyone on their gaffes - the production crew, fellow panel members, players, himself, etc.
The PW production was shit tier, and unlike TI5, where RedEye kept things civil and tried to cover for the DDoS attack as gentlemanly as possible, 2GD's attitude is a bit more 'no bs' and to just make fun of things till things get sorted. Instead of covering for PW, he pointed out each time the production fucked up and made fun of the situation.
"3 million tournament. Check out our production values guys. Look at this whiteboard"
or
"We're supposed to go to an overlay right now. Just waiting for the production team guys. Any time now. C'mon guys. We'll keep talking till it happens. Any time now"
or
"So the first game's supposed to start at 9 am. So let's go back 30 minutes in time and go to the first game"
He's someone who ribs everyone on their gaffes - the production crew, fellow panel members, players, himself, etc.
The PW production was shit tier, and unlike TI5, where RedEye kept things civil and tried to cover for the DDoS attack as gentlemanly as possible, 2GD's attitude is a bit more 'no bs' and to just make fun of things till things get sorted. Instead of covering for PW, he pointed out each time the production fucked up and made fun of the situation.
He is an ass only 99,9% of the time.
Askherserenity
Member
Teknopathetic
Member
"I generally agree with you, but there was nothing professional about the production crew here.
The whole thing's a mess."
Well that is apparently the case, but the guy asked why is it *supposed* to be professional.
The whole thing's a mess."
Well that is apparently the case, but the guy asked why is it *supposed* to be professional.
"KeyTV was fired this morning (day 3). There was a huge scene where the director shouted and tore up papers and tried to grab stuff. He also insisted that I was hired by him and that I should leave with him immediately. With his "dying breath" he was still arguing that the broadcast being screwed wasn't his fault..."
Damn. That's gotta really sting for that guy.
Blood Diamonds
Banned
Gabe's quote made me laugh so much, damn.
"HL3 not coming out because Gabe ate it"
In the interest of fairness, I found this tweet from 2GD in which he made a sexual joke about fellow caster/host personality Sheever: https://twitter.com/follow2GD/status/628752048771633152
Context is she was on the TI stream with her hair disheveled. However, he was not at TI5 in any professional capacity. Just as a spectator.
Context is she was on the TI stream with her hair disheveled. However, he was not at TI5 in any professional capacity. Just as a spectator.
BlastProcessing
Member
Sure. It was just a breakdown at every level here. I am honestly flabbergasted that it could have gone this bad. Everything from hiring James on in the first place to trusting this production crew. V1lat was tweeting that the production was going to be a trainwreck days before the tourney started and Valve didn't act on it until it got so bad that they had to fire production during the tourney? It's really hard to comprehend.
The whole thing feels like the result of a scattered and fractured crew which is pretty un-Valve-like.
You don't have to dig.
No. I've been defending him against the 'racist' or 'ableist' comments. My point is this is as much dirt you can dig on him. All the drive by posts are just unfounded.
Lol. No shit. Been watching Dota religiously since '13.
But that's a hilariously shitty defense for this particular joke.
Let me preface this by saying I don't play DOTA, and never heard of this guy before this thread. That out of the way and reading everything here, yeah this guy sounds toxic and not fit for an official Valve broadcast. Shouldn't be employed by them. That said, it seems like there was plenty of evidence out there he wasn't suited for this, and Valve hired him anyway. From that perspective, Gabe's post seems gross and inappropriate.
Gabe Newell is the head of an extremely large and powerful business attacking a streamer/host for seemingly no reason other than to shut up some reddit posters. People say Gabe shouldn't have to put out a PR friendly statement. And that stuff may have happened behind the scenes. Well if that's the case and he is talking off the cuff he should've cited those reasons rather than resorting to a cheapshot at a former employee, If you're going to be unprofessional and air dirty laundry, might as well go all out and do it right. As it is, it looks like Gabe kicking someone while they're down for no constructive reason other than to take heat off Valve.
There's a reason companies don't shit talk former employees, even when their termination is valid. They don't need to and Gabe doing so feels gratuitous. Especially with someone like this host, where their deficiencies are out there plain as day for anyone to see. All Gabe's statement does is lead to people speculating this host did something even worse despite no evidence, because "omg gaben is angry, this dude must have done something teeeerrrible behind the scenes." That seems like an abuse of Gabe's power to me. Even if it comes out the host did do something terrible behind the scenes, a more thoughtful statement still would have served valve and the community better.
Gabe Newell is the head of an extremely large and powerful business attacking a streamer/host for seemingly no reason other than to shut up some reddit posters. People say Gabe shouldn't have to put out a PR friendly statement. And that stuff may have happened behind the scenes. Well if that's the case and he is talking off the cuff he should've cited those reasons rather than resorting to a cheapshot at a former employee, If you're going to be unprofessional and air dirty laundry, might as well go all out and do it right. As it is, it looks like Gabe kicking someone while they're down for no constructive reason other than to take heat off Valve.
There's a reason companies don't shit talk former employees, even when their termination is valid. They don't need to and Gabe doing so feels gratuitous. Especially with someone like this host, where their deficiencies are out there plain as day for anyone to see. All Gabe's statement does is lead to people speculating this host did something even worse despite no evidence, because "omg gaben is angry, this dude must have done something teeeerrrible behind the scenes." That seems like an abuse of Gabe's power to me. Even if it comes out the host did do something terrible behind the scenes, a more thoughtful statement still would have served valve and the community better.
MrCunningham
Member
I think GabeN's "ass" comment is pretty well justified. That DOTA2 host was jokingly calling people cunts and pedophiles.
I did laugh at his redneck comment though, but at the same time, his humor is totally juvenile and in bad form for something that is meant to be a major event.
A defense? It's a fucking rib you posted with zero context. That's hilarious considering your previous stance on shitposting about him.
Oh no, a joke that implies a girl did something sexual. Muh eyes, can't handle it.
chaobreaker
Member
Gaben was probably fusterated with James performance in previous events and his extremely defiant behaviour with the production during this Major was the final straw. Bare minimum he should've been more co-operative with the production and not hijack the event.
@mfaex
I posted context, mentioned that he wasn't working in any professional capacity, and was careful to use the term 'sexual joke' instead of sexist or sexism, to avoid responses like yours. But children will be children.
I just find the thought process of 'he made her famous, so she owes him enough that he can make sex jokes' really funny.
I posted context, mentioned that he wasn't working in any professional capacity, and was careful to use the term 'sexual joke' instead of sexist or sexism, to avoid responses like yours. But children will be children.
I just find the thought process of 'he made her famous, so she owes him enough that he can make sex jokes' really funny.
I see what you're trying to say, but he's not the community's favorite announcer, or even an announcer. That would be ODPixel or Tobiwan.
He didn't make her famous and I didn't say he did. She busted her ass in the scene forever but James got her the dreamhack gigs that finally got her out of streaming from home. That's a reflection on the working relationship they have. The joke was harmless.
Chuck Norris
Banned
How many times did he get to host? Must have been getting close to 3 so they got rid of him
shira
Member
Sadly that's his calling card. Reddit 12 year olds and twitch spammers love his "rebel" attitude and cavalier style.
bananabread
Member
Valve knew who they were hiring, and I really don't feel like 'professionalism' necessarily equates to 'increased market' in esports. It's not going to be taken seriously by the mainstream for another 10-20 years when we're all in our 40's and get to dictate what the mainstream is. In the meantime, there's nothing wrong with having a funny jerk hosting the show.
2GD made the time between matches entertaining for me, I tune in to streams to be entertained. I'd rather hear him quipping about everything and having his 'he did NOT just go there' moments than interminable discussion about drafts or players that gets stretched out to ridiculous lengths to fill the (often unpredictable) time between games.
Much like the UFC's desperate bid to be taken seriously as a real sport has made it less entertaining to watch, I've found every TI after 3 heavy going because they'd obviously gagged/neutered James at TI4 and he wasn't present at TI5. He's an ass, but he's confident, charismatic, and funny. He provides an excellent foil for the panel of straight men with zero personality but boundless game knowledge, and was often able to bring out a more personal/funny side of his fellow panelists which made the whole show more fun to watch.
2GD made the time between matches entertaining for me, I tune in to streams to be entertained. I'd rather hear him quipping about everything and having his 'he did NOT just go there' moments than interminable discussion about drafts or players that gets stretched out to ridiculous lengths to fill the (often unpredictable) time between games.
Much like the UFC's desperate bid to be taken seriously as a real sport has made it less entertaining to watch, I've found every TI after 3 heavy going because they'd obviously gagged/neutered James at TI4 and he wasn't present at TI5. He's an ass, but he's confident, charismatic, and funny. He provides an excellent foil for the panel of straight men with zero personality but boundless game knowledge, and was often able to bring out a more personal/funny side of his fellow panelists which made the whole show more fun to watch.
MrCunningham
Member
Indeed, but it's still not a good direction to go in if you are trying to reach out to a larger and more diversified global audience. Sure it is fine that they can hire a host that can resonate with the core audience, but there still needs to be a certain level of professionalism that needs to be drawn.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
It's the pop culture persona making its rounds. Social media in gaming was bound to spark fireworks. You're working with people who get paid to be themselves. That's 70% more likely to meet the person who is "that guy".
I'm not surprised. The men and women who helped formed this industry are still running it. If someone makes them feel uncomfortable then there's no forgiveness. I can't imagine it being like a floor worker at a Coke or Pepsi plant who is a jerk to everyone on the floor. The brand isn't held responsible inside a place no one really goes to. If anything, Gabe isn't sitting up at the ritz smoking a cigar watching his legacy get tarnished by this radical culture based on personalities.
Gaming has changed in that we never relied upon a set personality before the Internet became what it is. We relied upon acknowledging our own abilities to play games. I wouldn't let someone stomp on it like a high school football bully with their ego.
I'm not surprised. The men and women who helped formed this industry are still running it. If someone makes them feel uncomfortable then there's no forgiveness. I can't imagine it being like a floor worker at a Coke or Pepsi plant who is a jerk to everyone on the floor. The brand isn't held responsible inside a place no one really goes to. If anything, Gabe isn't sitting up at the ritz smoking a cigar watching his legacy get tarnished by this radical culture based on personalities.
Gaming has changed in that we never relied upon a set personality before the Internet became what it is. We relied upon acknowledging our own abilities to play games. I wouldn't let someone stomp on it like a high school football bully with their ego.
Nothing in that video happened in an official Dota 2 event hosted by Valve.
He hasn't ever called anyone a pedophile in Dota 2. Didn't call anyone in particular a cunt either.
His cunt remark this time was in the opening monologue saying 'To tell use about the cans and cunts of the teams we have our panel....'.
This is relevant because he has hosted two of the biggest official events for Valve before and had no complaints. So it's not like Valve hired him for the first time without doing any background checks. However, it seems like they found more crowd friendly hosts in Redeye and Chobra, and don't need to rely on James as much as they used to. He is very much a draw in the scene, and the first pick as host for the community was RedEye. When Redeye said he won't be hosting because Perfect World didn't want him, the community was dismayed till they announced that James would be hosting. That was a complete PR move and it kind of brought an excitement back to the major. However, it seems like Gaben didn't actually want to hire him and he was convinced by others that hiring James would be beneficial.
NaDannMaGoGo
Member
I die inside every time I see yet another 'sick' (read: wittless) burn by some caster or host upvoted to the front page.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Seriously fuck Gabe and I hope anybody defending him is utterly ignorant about Tobi's racist remarks in the past. 2GD might be 'unprofessional' but he's never said anything anywhere near as bad as their TI grand final representatives "Useless as a nigger baby" comment.
C'mon dude, a bunch of people in this thread who have never seen a 2GD broadcast, but watched (most of) the "2GD in a nutshell" video have condemned the man. He's clearly not fit to host a panel for Professional Electronic Sports.
Yep. Let's get rid of any attempts at genuine humor and levity out of our Dota broadcasts, but please let's keep hiring that racist shithead.
Doesn't look like a defense to me, looks like context.
The fuck? Got a source for that comment? That can't be right...
AnathemicOne
Banned
Found a compilation of 2GD highlights at the Shanghai Major on youtube, not sure if he was fired for this exactly but I do see that he (and the rest of the panel) were acting unprofessionally but given the poor production itself I can't blame them (that paper whiteboard, for real?).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUiFjh4fmzo
I laughed, poor EE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUiFjh4fmzo
How in the fuck is Tobi still a premiere Dota caster, that should've been a career ending move.
Monochromaticx
Member
Preach