Felessan
Member
That's a monkey job
Just ask AI to make several variants of stone placement based on various patterns and then adjust/fix one that suit your taste better
Gabe Newell praises emergence of AI as a revolutionary technology
- Thread starter LakeOf9
- Start date
Just ask AI to make several variants of stone placement based on various patterns and then adjust/fix one that suit your taste better
Hold my beer.
No, no stop that, <slap>.
BAD chatgpt, down!
STOP it!
Sorry, these agents are a bit hasty since I let them access my account.
Fbh
Member
Didn't read the whole article, but every quote in the OP seems completely reasonable.
Depending on your field, if you just stick your head in the sand and refuse to engage with AI , you'll probably have to worry about being replaced by other people who do take advantage of these new productivity tools way before you'll actually have to worry about being replaced by AI itself.
Depending on your field, if you just stick your head in the sand and refuse to engage with AI , you'll probably have to worry about being replaced by other people who do take advantage of these new productivity tools way before you'll actually have to worry about being replaced by AI itself.
PlayStaytion
Member
Then becoming both is a deadly weapon for sure. I have the idgaf attitude towards investing in Real Estate and my c mind in tech and entrepreneurship. That's the cost for being wealthy unfortunately, being worried the whole time is inherently bad and it doesn't mean these people are bad.
Hugare
Member
That's ... not how it works
As someone who works with finance, I agree 100% with him. I've been using AI since 2023 and I've created stuff that I would have never been able to create without it. So I'm a much better at my position than I would have been without it.
I've created many automations, spreadsheets, dashboards and reports using skills that I dont know much about. One of our suppliers even thought that I was someone working with IT, not finance.
At the same time, I see coworkers who spend days making a spreadsheet that should take 1 day with ChatGPT's help.
Everyone should know more about AI
Holammer
Member
I remember when everyone was cool with AI and the future potential for self-driving cars and 100's of thousands of potential jobs lost in transportation would be a sad but unfortunate consequence of progress. Then AI flipped everything on its head by doing simple clerical tasks, LLMs generating text and reasoning, drawing art, composing music, animating.
NOW the neo-luddites start crawling out of the woodwork.
NOW the neo-luddites start crawling out of the woodwork.
ThatOneGrunt
Member
Don't get mad at Gabe. You're an idiot if you think AI is just going to go away and that Gabe would be smarter not to use it.
Wildebeest
Member
Gabe Newell wanted to put wires in gamers brains so he could work out the optimal time to jump scare them in games. He isn't afraid of creepy technology.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
I'm loving using it to create scripts for use in work, I put together a spec for a script sent it out and got quotes of over £15k, then shelved the project. In comes A.I. and through trial and error managed to get CoPilot to write them for me using Dynamo and Python, was a ball ache for sure but with absolutely zero programming skills I managed to create an even better script than what I was originally wanting.. can only imagine what actual programmers could do with this thing tbf
Durin
Member
He's not wrong, it is a disruptive technology that will have far reaching impact.
If anyone remembers the dotcom boom of the 90s, you'll also probably remember tons of companies shilling snake-oil and nonsense to ride that wave into the ground until the bubble burst...that didn't invalidate the internet finding use cases that added value to the world.
If anyone remembers the dotcom boom of the 90s, you'll also probably remember tons of companies shilling snake-oil and nonsense to ride that wave into the ground until the bubble burst...that didn't invalidate the internet finding use cases that added value to the world.
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Walliwallipaloo
Member
Wait, I thought that was VR. What happened to that?
Blowhard. He runs a digital storefront, sits on his ass and rakes in cash, and he thinks this makes him some sort of commentator. He's not a sage. He's just a moneybags with near-zero talent.
Blowhard. He runs a digital storefront, sits on his ass and rakes in cash, and he thinks this makes him some sort of commentator. He's not a sage. He's just a moneybags with near-zero talent.
GamesDontSuck
Member
On this subject, I do wonder if AI can vastly improve character interaction in say RPG's.
Take the classic dialog tree. You can typically only reply with one of three options. What if, with the help of AI, one day you'll be able to have conversations through the microphone in your controller with the NPCs.
I imagine at the start it would be a complex mess of what the NPC should know and shouldn't know. Etc. How would they handle rude responses like "show me your t*ts" lol.
Could be a business opportunity for some company though. Havoc physics engine was licensed out for dozens of games, right? Why not some npc ai software eh.
Take the classic dialog tree. You can typically only reply with one of three options. What if, with the help of AI, one day you'll be able to have conversations through the microphone in your controller with the NPCs.
I imagine at the start it would be a complex mess of what the NPC should know and shouldn't know. Etc. How would they handle rude responses like "show me your t*ts" lol.
Could be a business opportunity for some company though. Havoc physics engine was licensed out for dozens of games, right? Why not some npc ai software eh.
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crackajack
Member
AI haters sound backwards af. 99,9% of everything is copy paste, so AI replacing that will not change one bit the quality of anything and pretending that there is soul in 0,1% of work is imho just humans acting like superior beings not really understanding that their free will is just as free as a yet still dumb AI systems, just with other limits and different approach to learning.
Gabe is of course correct. AI is a huge chance for everyone that integrates it in their work. It's a problem for society though if a fuckton of jobs just disappear and their AI-enhanced successors won't be needed as many. Politics will have to limit capitalism and redistribute wealth to prevent the system collapsing. Especially americans will have difficulties with that idea.
Gabe is of course correct. AI is a huge chance for everyone that integrates it in their work. It's a problem for society though if a fuckton of jobs just disappear and their AI-enhanced successors won't be needed as many. Politics will have to limit capitalism and redistribute wealth to prevent the system collapsing. Especially americans will have difficulties with that idea.
ThisIsMyDog
Member
A billionaire who made a fortune from technological development considers technological progress to be a good thing... More important news at 12
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RayHell
Member
He's absolutely right at small scale first but i'm still eager to see new gameplay possibility of Ai. The dream would be one day just dictate the Ai what you want to play and it will generate the experience real time like Hunyuan GameCraft do but high quality and with world persistence.
Sonik
Member
This demonization of AI is dumb af, if used correctly it can speed up development and decrease costs significantly. Telling AI to make 50 wall textures the developer can choose a couple from would not ruin the art of the game, telling AI to make an entire character would. Hollywood is making CGI slop movies not because CGI is bad but because they're incompetent morons, the most realistic looking Jurassic Park movie was made in the 90s by Steven Spielberg because he knew how to blend practical effects and CGI and was a good director
peish
Member
Nvidia to the moon! Free 5090 for the investors!
Isnt AI application today all about it retrieving historical information from it's database using super fast parallel processing GPU? No records, no AI
Isnt AI application today all about it retrieving historical information from it's database using super fast parallel processing GPU? No records, no AI
AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
People acting like he is talking about something all of you didnt use already by pampering your CVs, linkedin profile, engagement posts, cover letters, business advice etc by askign chatgpt. He is right, there was a time internet browsing was crap, then google came, now people ask questions to chatgpt, not google search. It literally changed how people operate. Your dad that doesnt know what photoshop is, can make a logo in 2 minutes by typing a few sentences for his tiny garage business. Not sure why people right away go for "omg they gonna make the whole game using AI". Fear of AI yet ALL of you use it every day almost.
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TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Some games already support it, like this mod for M&B Bannerlord that lets you chat with NPCs.
Steam Workshop::ChatAi Mod
edit: apparently there's more than one mod for this. Glad to see the concept taking off.
edit2: changed the video since that one was a bit outdated.
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Sinozen
Member
I don't see how this is remotely controversial. It's obvious. You can hate AI and try avoiding it, but that isn't going to stop it. Just like all the technologies before its going to continue on regardless of what anyone thinks. If something is useful, which AI objectively is, you cannot stop it.
I think in the long run AI is going to profoundly improve humanity, but there will be turbulence to get to that point.
I think in the long run AI is going to profoundly improve humanity, but there will be turbulence to get to that point.
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Walliwallipaloo
Member
This AI slop nonsense is either stopped, or creativity as a concept simply dies the death. As in, immediately we will in all forms of media see a complete smothering of the creative spark (what's left that actually is worth anything, at least), and in the long term that part of the human brain will likely just disappear on down the line from lack of use.
AI in its current iteration can and should be legislated out of existence, as it is it is nothing more than glorified theft. Why do you think the federal government in the US just tried to issue a blanket ban on AI boycotting? Because they know that's the way people are going to fight back. If not, true creatives will stop creating, because A) They won't be appreciated and B) They can't be successful doing it. It's not the "future" of anything. It's a highly-corporate data-collation tool meant to streamline production and generate slop on-the-cheap. It's not "artificial intelligence." That's just a label to make it sound like it's more than it is. More accurate to call it PISS.
Plagiarized Information Synthesis System.
It's frankly ignorant how so many of you have this starry-eyed idea that AI is going to give you amazing videogames - that finally you can harass a female NPC into "showing you her tits" - and that's enough to get you on-board with this large-scale and completely immoral data-scraping system that's going to financially ruin thousands, if not millions, of people in the immediate short-term, if allowed to continue as it is. And that's just to start. You want to know what you'll actually be getting once all the creatives are gone? Go look up Microsoft Muse. There you go. Enjoy whatever the hell that is, because, no, it's not going to get better with time, as so many uneducated people simply expect. That is what "generative AI" is. It is not "intelligent," but algorithmically interpretive. It stitches together fever-dreams. It cannot magick you up an experience worth having.
If used as a tool, the best it can do is steal others' artworks. The furor about Bungie literally lifting an artist's portfolio for Marathon? That's exactly what these data-collating "AI's" do as a part of their normal operation. Period.
The good news is, there's a terrific amount of "slop fatigue" right now, even in the early days. Although the big corporations are trying to gleefully shovel this content down your throat, to get you acquainted with its flaws and idiosyncrasies, and, hopefully, guide you into being acceptive of them, there are already browser extensions to block and filter AI-generated images. I have faith that people will see through this charade, and the bubble will burst sooner rather than later.
AI in its current iteration can and should be legislated out of existence, as it is it is nothing more than glorified theft. Why do you think the federal government in the US just tried to issue a blanket ban on AI boycotting? Because they know that's the way people are going to fight back. If not, true creatives will stop creating, because A) They won't be appreciated and B) They can't be successful doing it. It's not the "future" of anything. It's a highly-corporate data-collation tool meant to streamline production and generate slop on-the-cheap. It's not "artificial intelligence." That's just a label to make it sound like it's more than it is. More accurate to call it PISS.
Plagiarized Information Synthesis System.
It's frankly ignorant how so many of you have this starry-eyed idea that AI is going to give you amazing videogames - that finally you can harass a female NPC into "showing you her tits" - and that's enough to get you on-board with this large-scale and completely immoral data-scraping system that's going to financially ruin thousands, if not millions, of people in the immediate short-term, if allowed to continue as it is. And that's just to start. You want to know what you'll actually be getting once all the creatives are gone? Go look up Microsoft Muse. There you go. Enjoy whatever the hell that is, because, no, it's not going to get better with time, as so many uneducated people simply expect. That is what "generative AI" is. It is not "intelligent," but algorithmically interpretive. It stitches together fever-dreams. It cannot magick you up an experience worth having.
If used as a tool, the best it can do is steal others' artworks. The furor about Bungie literally lifting an artist's portfolio for Marathon? That's exactly what these data-collating "AI's" do as a part of their normal operation. Period.
The good news is, there's a terrific amount of "slop fatigue" right now, even in the early days. Although the big corporations are trying to gleefully shovel this content down your throat, to get you acquainted with its flaws and idiosyncrasies, and, hopefully, guide you into being acceptive of them, there are already browser extensions to block and filter AI-generated images. I have faith that people will see through this charade, and the bubble will burst sooner rather than later.
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amigastar
Member
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Some games already support it, like this mod for M&B Bannerlord that lets you chat with NPCs.
Steam Workshop::ChatAi Mod
steamcommunity.com
edit: apparently there's more than one mod for this. Glad to see the concept taking off.
edit2: changed the video since that one was a bit outdated.
Issue is that it's quite expensive. Vast majority of folks won't have the GPUs to support even small models being able to reply at decent speed as part of NPC conversations. And using AI systems that are cloud based in an SP game will ratchet up costs.
I could totally see this utilized in say MMOs or further down the line when models are more optimized and local hardware is more powerful.
executor
Member
In my experiments with AI (learning and coding algorithms, run it locally, mixing AI together and having them working on very difficult workflows etc) I can see the huge potential and the fact that it's a possible society changer, but if society will be better or not that is difficult to predict. Luckily it's still not enough to replace highly senior people but it's just a matter of time… And I see his point: become a upgraded human (powered by AI) or become obsolete. That's very difficult to accept but resistance to change has always shown during any important evolution… As someone that spent most of his life in coding I'm both thrilled and scared…
Walliwallipaloo
Member
Stealing peoples' work using algorithm-based tools doesn't make you an "upgraded human." It makes you a human complicit in the theft of other peoples' works, and one who is themselves creatively-barren with an over-reliance on a system. If anything, the human is degraded, their own potential stunted through under-utilization and over-reliance.
In the very best-case, ignoring all the moral and existential issues inherent in this whole thing, we're looking at systems that completely stifle innovation and creativity. And that's best-case, when these brain-dead companies start mandating the use of AI tools as Microshaft has begun doing. It's basically giving the reins over to a glorified committee telling each and every employee "this is how you create - now refine the inevitable errors and publish the slop."
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He started praising it now that ChatGPT is using version 4
We told journalists to learn how to code but now AI is taking both their jobs
executor
Member
I totally see your point and it's correct. I'm just trying to understand what is going to happen and the fact that there'll be an impact also if we do not want it. Companies are moving that way because that is the way they think is good to make more value for them.
Autistic_Pancake
Member
AI by itself is a wonderful tool. The real issue is that goddamn morons want to use it to ease their fucking jobs.
Walliwallipaloo
Member
Which is precisely why people need to be educated as to why this needs to be stopped. Right now, we're being mollified with fun and seemingly harmless image generation and chatbot systems that are simple and rewarding for the end-user to engage with. This is by intent. It is to get us hyped and excited for a particular use-case scenario without leaving us much room to think critically of the greater implications.
People need to understand - this is not a good thing, and laws need to bring these rogue companies to heel and quickly. Simple content-protection laws could nip this nonsense in the bud, and effectively illegalize nearly every single mass plagiarism model out there, since all of them are built on content that did not belong to the companies developing their models.
"Generative" AI is not going to be used to give you amazing, infinite worlds, or deep and interesting characters. This isn't going to bring back the warm-fuzzies of discovery before the big publishers started churning out same-same arena shooters ad-infinium. It's going to be used to push independent voices even farther from an already creatively-barren space, and turn everything into design-by-committee nothingness.
Syphon Filter
Member
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Only now?? He's already waved shit through before.
Steam Users Are Mad at Valve for Banning Adult-Only Games off Its Platform
Many Steam users claim that Valve has set a "dangerous precedent" following its sweeping adult-only games ban policy update.
www.vice.com
Darkkahn
Member
How the turn tables...Only now?? He's already waved shit through before.
Steam Users Are Mad at Valve for Banning Adult-Only Games off Its Platform
Many Steam users claim that Valve has set a "dangerous precedent" following its sweeping adult-only games ban policy update.
Super Lemon Drop
Gold Member
I don't care what that guy has to say about anything really, and AI is already being misused and abused by lazy assclowns.
ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
What are you talking about? His example was of using AI in workflows, tooling, development -- which is where it is currently accelerating the coding and progress of countless high-level engineers, including many in my personal orbit.
These aren't the creative parts of the process per se (that's another conversation where I disagree with you as well, but a separate matter), but instead regards the mountain of work it takes to build out systems, tooling, etc in order to construct complete games or products. All the top developers are using AI to speed up those parts, and even to iterate on some very complex pieces. For example, I worked with someone who was easily in the top 1% of ability on training machine learning models, deploying them efficiently with custom compiled kernels all the way to low level, etc -- and he used code generation constantly in his flow, despite being at the upper level of abilities. Because that's how to actually get to the point of major breakthroughs... we were even doing things like pasting formulas for new techniques (taken straight from ML research papers) into the code generation tool to have it think out different ways of implementing them efficiently.
Again, when it comes to the purely creative side, that's a different debate. But LLMs are not creating mere slop when it comes to their ability to code, architect complex solutions, even debug complex code; they are quite powerful and intelligent in these areas. They still require humans, but the augmentation it gives is so significant that there will be zero high-level developers employed soon who haven't managed to integrate this kind of thing into their work.
Walliwallipaloo
Member
I don't particularly care about Gabe's example. My argument stands on its own.
These are separate subjects, sure, but a lot of the positivity I'm seeing here stems from peoples' belief that suddenly games are going to become bigger, more expansive, more detailed, and more interactive, thanks to some dreamy, misguided notion of AI and its capabilities.
Specifically in regards to workflow, nearly everything I've read on the subject points towards AI "generated" code needing constant revision and adjustment by an intelligent human. It is plain that generative AI is straight-up stealing art assets and even lifting whole chunks of manuscripts for its text generation. That's simple fact and not a matter of debate. Now when it comes to generating lines of code based on the work of those who have come before, who knows. It's a sort of copy-paste, that's certain. Perhaps we are not investing in programmers the sort of ownership of their work that I feel they deserve, but what can I say? I'm not a programmer. I respect programmers. People like John Carmack, who's big into AI now, as it turns out. The people write the code which powers the engines that drive the games we love. It's like magic, in a sense - at least to the uninitiated. Though I admit I have little intrinsic understanding of the medium, I feel like if I were a programmer, I'd be worried about systems that just copy and (let's be optimistic and say) iterate on my creative output.
One way or another, AI models can't even manage to get basic points across without introducing embarrassing, nonsensical mistakes and outright falsehoods. I feel that doesn't bode well for their capability to interpret developer intent for code-building purposes. I think it's the next "thing" being pushed by clueless clowns under the pressure of barely-sentient "investor" whales who expect inflated returns through workforce reductions, and this recent scandal with Replit, in which an "AI agent" just deleted a massive database of important information for no reason, might have a cooling effect on its introduction.
In my belief, the workload required to error check any AI agent's output is likely to make redundant any work saved - that is, if the agent doesn't just straight-up fuck up and destroy your entire codebase. And of course, coders themselves will become lazier, more complacent, less innovative, and overall less capable in the process, due to their dependency on these systems.
But as you said, sure, this is a separate argument. I posit that embracing this faux-AI will kill creativity. That's an argument I stand by. It's no kind of future any of us truly want if we'd spend even a little bit of time pondering on its implications.
These are separate subjects, sure, but a lot of the positivity I'm seeing here stems from peoples' belief that suddenly games are going to become bigger, more expansive, more detailed, and more interactive, thanks to some dreamy, misguided notion of AI and its capabilities.
Specifically in regards to workflow, nearly everything I've read on the subject points towards AI "generated" code needing constant revision and adjustment by an intelligent human. It is plain that generative AI is straight-up stealing art assets and even lifting whole chunks of manuscripts for its text generation. That's simple fact and not a matter of debate. Now when it comes to generating lines of code based on the work of those who have come before, who knows. It's a sort of copy-paste, that's certain. Perhaps we are not investing in programmers the sort of ownership of their work that I feel they deserve, but what can I say? I'm not a programmer. I respect programmers. People like John Carmack, who's big into AI now, as it turns out. The people write the code which powers the engines that drive the games we love. It's like magic, in a sense - at least to the uninitiated. Though I admit I have little intrinsic understanding of the medium, I feel like if I were a programmer, I'd be worried about systems that just copy and (let's be optimistic and say) iterate on my creative output.
One way or another, AI models can't even manage to get basic points across without introducing embarrassing, nonsensical mistakes and outright falsehoods. I feel that doesn't bode well for their capability to interpret developer intent for code-building purposes. I think it's the next "thing" being pushed by clueless clowns under the pressure of barely-sentient "investor" whales who expect inflated returns through workforce reductions, and this recent scandal with Replit, in which an "AI agent" just deleted a massive database of important information for no reason, might have a cooling effect on its introduction.
In my belief, the workload required to error check any AI agent's output is likely to make redundant any work saved - that is, if the agent doesn't just straight-up fuck up and destroy your entire codebase. And of course, coders themselves will become lazier, more complacent, less innovative, and overall less capable in the process, due to their dependency on these systems.
But as you said, sure, this is a separate argument. I posit that embracing this faux-AI will kill creativity. That's an argument I stand by. It's no kind of future any of us truly want if we'd spend even a little bit of time pondering on its implications.