VALVE fires DOTA tourney host, Gabe Newell calls the host "an ass" publicly on Reddit

Sibylus said:
Can someone with a better understanding libel law shine a light on me, because to my mind calling someone an ass isn't a factual claim, it's pretty evidently a subjective one. If Gabe had accused James of an assault, true or not, would that not be the grounds for a libel suit if James contested that statement?
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Yeah, for Libel, you generally have to make claims that aren't true. For an insult as generic as "He is an ass", its very hard to prove that it is true or false, since its basically an opinion.

Now, if Valve said something like "James is a Pedophile", "Jame is a Neo Nazi", or "James physically attacked our employees" , and he those weren't true statements, then it would be Libel.
 
Sibylus said:
Can someone with a better understanding libel law shine a light on me, because to my mind calling someone an ass isn't a factual claim, it's pretty evidently a subjective one. If Gabe had accused James of an assault, true or not, would that not be the grounds for a libel suit if James contested that statement?
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This has to be a joke... libel... k. LMAO.
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Really... what. How do you prove someone is an ass. What the...

edit:
quoted the wrong person
 
After seeing the videos the thing I'm shocked about isn't that he was fired, it's that he was hired in first place.
 
Drkirby said:
Yeah, for Libel, you generally have to make claims that aren't true. For an insult as generic as "He is an ass", its very hard to prove that it is true or false, since its basically an opinion.

Now, if Valve said something like "James is a Pedophile", "Jame is a Neo Nazi", or "James physically attacked our employees" , and he those weren't true statements, then it would be Libel.
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It'd be a hard case to prove considering James is like the first one to point out he's an ass.
 
Princess Carl said:
Public caster says inappropriate things for high viewer stream. The end.
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That would be the end, if the CEO didn't choose to be edgy and shameful in the way he handled it after, which is now leading to all of this dirty laundry about Valve's complete sham of an esports scene being aired.
 
TheYanger said:
That would be the end, if the CEO didn't choose to be edgy and shameful in the way he handled it after, which is now leading to all of this dirty laundry about Valve's complete sham of an esports scene being aired.
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What is the sham? There very clearly is a scene and it's been raking it in for them. They should certainly do better about compensating their on-air talent but that doesn't make the whole scene a sham.
 
I said he COULD sue, didn't say anything about it being successful.

tons of lawsuits with less ground to stand on then this have happened before.
 
Aselith said:
What is the sham? There very clearly is a scene and it's been raking it in for them. They should certainly do better about compensating their on-air talent but that doesn't make the whole scene a sham.
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Being intentionally obtuse here? They run their events like amateurs while they, as you say, rake in money. Their operation is fucking pathetic so for Gabe to come out and act like billy badass is ridiculous at best.
 
Trotting "intentionally obtuse" just for someone having a different opinion sounds pretty edgy to me tbh.
 
Falk said:
Trotting "intentionally obtuse" just for someone having a different opinion sounds pretty edgy to me tbh.
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How is it 'trotting'? It's using the English language. He quoted me and acted like he didn't understand something that, let's face it, is perfectly obvious what I was saying. That is the definition of being intentionally obtuse.

Shark Johnson said:
Calling someone an ass is edgy and makes you Billy Badass? What soft ass universe do you live in?
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If you're the CEO of a huge company like Valve, it absolutely is. If it weren't there wouldn't even be threads about this.
 
TheYanger said:
Being intentionally obtuse here? They run their events like amateurs while they, as you say, rake in money. Their operation is fucking pathetic so for Gabe to come out and act like billy badass is ridiculous at best.
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So one of like 5 means they're amateurs? All of the TI's have been great.
 
Aselith said:
So one of like 5 means they're amateurs? All of the TI's have been great.
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They were trying TO NOT PAY the people that were casting at TI 2. That's some amateur level shit, but let's pretend they're great at what they do and not completely outclassed in this regard.
 
TheYanger said:
How is it 'trotting'? It's using the English language. He quoted me and acted like he didn't understand something that, let's face it, is perfectly obvious what I was saying. That is the definition of being intentionally obtuse.
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It's perfectly obvious what you're saying, that you think the events are amateurish. It's also perfectly obvious what he's saying, which is, he doesn't think so. It's a difference in opinion, not him being intentionally slow to understand your post.

I don't really have an opinion about the matter either way. Just pointing it out.
 
Valve, especially Gabe Newell, really shot themselves in the foot with this one. Wouldn't be surprised to see a drop in steam users over the coming months
 
Falk said:
It's perfectly obvious what you're saying, that you think the events are amateurish. It's also perfectly obvious what he's saying, which is, he doesn't think so. It's a difference in opinion, not him being intentionally slow to understand your post.
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Except that's not what he said, he agreed that it's run poorly but the fact that it exists and makes them money makes it not a sham. It's purported to be a professional level event and they run it like chickens with their heads cut off, it is not what they are trying to sell it as, that is definitively a sham.
 
TheYanger said:
They were trying TO NOT PAY the people that were casting at TI 2. That's some amateur level shit, but let's pretend they're great at what they do and not completely outclassed in this regard.
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Actually playing your talent as little as possible is as pro as it gets. :P

The pay issue and the actual production values on the event and how they support the scene are completely separate. Clearly the casters found some value in being there if they were willing to work for free probably they were expecting jumps in subscribers on twitch or whatever. That doesn't excuse Valve for their part in that, they 100% should have been paying casters (and did so that's good.) The events themselves though were lauded for their quality production though so let's not pretend the scene is a sham because you don't like one aspect of the event.
 
Sasie said:
Seems like 2GD have a bit of a hard understanding he was hired by a company to do a job the way they wanted it and when they ask him to do something it's more than a suggestions. He might have liked his whiteboard but they told him no and he ignored it, then he got a email from the CEO himself and he still don't get the hint. Not much sympathy for this guy.
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He didn't got any communication from Valve m8, the only thing he got was a "This dude is having a whiteboard at my 3 mill dollar tourney fire him" by the producer at the end of day 1, and a e-mail sent to his best friend to tell him he's fired trough mid day 2


So many drive by posts and "This 2 minute video of him is enough to make me hate him" posts make me mad , can't wait for EG to play.
 
vehn said:
Valve, especially Gabe Newell, really shot themselves in the foot with this one. Wouldn't be surprised to see a drop in steam users over the coming months
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fr0st said:
/s right? Do people really believe this?
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This... kinda never gets old. Heh.

:|

TheYanger said:
Except that's not what he said, he agreed that it's run poorly but the fact that it exists and makes them money makes it not a sham. It's purported to be a professional level event and they run it like chickens with their heads cut off, it is not what they are trying to sell it as, that is definitively a sham.
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You're calling it a sham because you think it's something it's not purported to be. He literally said he doesn't think it's a sham outside of not paying their talent. Again, I'm not saying either of you are right or wrong, because opinions and all that. But hey, I'm not here to interpret what someone meant when he's actually also here posting, so instead of us doing this dance over and over (and possibly being intentionally obtuse towards each other's posts) I'll just leave it at that.
 
Valve really should have pulled James out when the production fell apart. He really doesn't have the capacity to hold back his personality for that long.
 
pompidu said:
Valve really should have pulled James out when the production fell apart. He really doesn't have the capacity to hold back his personality for that long.
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He was the only thing holding the major together at that point though. What is worse than shitty production? Shitty production with huge breaks.
 
Stopped caring about dota 2 competitive a while back as the CSgo bug hit me hard. I saw that the Shanghai Major was on twitch so I decided to tune in for a bit. Shit was a disaster with huge breaks, and the dota not exciting. Other hand I generally tuned back into watch the panel which was hilarious with 2gd as the host. I agree with some people he was keeping it together.
 
vehn said:
Valve, especially Gabe Newell, really shot themselves in the foot with this one. Wouldn't be surprised to see a drop in steam users over the coming months
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If the christmas and paid mods contreversies barely made dent in their ever increasing userbase, if at all, I doubt this will.
 
HotHamWater said:
Didn't a CSGO caster get into a fist fight with a player and still get invited back?

Da fuck
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You don't know the story yet you still post that...

Dreamhack don't have security. They let some dude come backstage and get in the face of one of the analysts and the analyst responded by putting his hand around his neck to push him back. The dude happened to be some dota 2 player and he's the one that initiated contact. Dreamhack stated they won't be working with Richard Lewis indefinitely after that situation. It has nothing to do with valve.

As for this dota thing. I don't follow the scene and I don't know who half these casters are but I always cringe with people are complaining about a lack of professionalism. eports arent 'real sports'. The demographic is 18-25 year olds. The on screen talent shouldn't be trying to be so buttoned up and we shouldn't want then to be either. Some of the best talent in csgo are the guys like thorin who are known for being so 'edgy'
 
chessnut said:
You don't know the story yet you still post that...

Dreamhack don't have security. They let some dude come backstage and get in the face of one of the analysts and the analyst responded by putting his hand around his neck to push him back. The dude happened to be some dota 2 player and he's the one that initiated contact. Dreamhack stated they won't be working with Richard Lewis indefinitely after that situation. It has nothing to do with valve.
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Is this the Richard Lewis version? I can see why Breitbart hired him.
 
I sometimes wonder how people fall into this trap over and over again.

Why am I not hearing similar stories about Day9 or Artosis, for example? How come they do not have shady meltdowns and swearing exits from tournaments? Lousy breakups? Why? How?

Oh, wait, I know the answer. To be popular by being an asshole just makes you popular, but not someone to work with well. Yeah, that must be it.

Esports by large needs some cleansing to do, especially Dota-like communities.
 
V_Arnold said:
Why am I not hearing similar stories about Day9 or Artosis, for example?
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Because Starcraft is dead.

Esports by large needs some cleansing to do, especially Dota-like communities.
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LoL is the biggest Dota-like, and they have intense policing and professionalism. It exists for people who want that. Dota's esport was built on the back of a grassroots community, and you can't exploit the same community and then throw it by the wayside because you wake up one day and want to be ESPN.
 
chessnut said:
You don't know the story yet you still post that...

Dreamhack don't have security. They let some dude come backstage and get in the face of one of the analysts and the analyst responded by putting his hand around his neck to push him back. The dude happened to be some dota 2 player and he's the one that initiated contact.
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Seems like You don't know the story yet.
-They actually agreed to meet at the backstage.
-Loda push his forhead into the analist's face.
-Lewis actually grabbed Loda's throat with both hands and pushed him backwards towards the ground while strangling until admins pulled him away (which is QUITE different from "put his hand around his neck to push him back")

This is supported by witnesses.
 
RudoIudo said:
Seems like You don't know the story yet.
-They actually agreed to meet at the backstage.
-Loda push his forhead into the analist's face.
-Lewis actually grabbed Loda's throat with both hands and pushed him backwards towards the ground while strangling until admins pulled him away (which is QUITE different from "put his hand around his neck to push him back")

This is supported by witnesses.
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Yup. All started with a sexual joke from Lewis about Loda's girlfriend.
https://twitter.com/rlewisreports/status/670550953121226752
The comments are still there. You can scroll down and see Lewis trying to goad Loda into meeting him`
 
sephi22 said:
Because Starcraft is dead.


LoL is the biggest Dota-like, and they have intense policing and professionalism. It exists for people who want that. Dota's esport was built on the back of a grassroots community, and you can't exploit the same community and then throw it by the wayside because you wake up one day and want to be ESPN.
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It is just a shame that it is very off-puting for new players.

Regardless of "Esports", recently I tried to introduce a friend to dota. Imagine if I showed her this particular cast, it would have turned her away from the game as a whole immediately. I understand there is an audience for this type of casting but it shouldn't be the primary stream cast in my opinion. Professional casting shouldn't be dull. It should make the exciting parts more exciting and the lulls in the game feel less so.

As a casual dota player I don't know who is friends with who or what the history is. Should that bar me from watching? Or should I first invest in knowing the entire history? I can watch a football match without knowing where Messi played before or if he ever had lunch with the caster.

You have three sides now; the tightknit community that plays since the dota1 era, the esports, and the new (casual) players. To me it seems that these sides are in conflict at the moment. There is fear that making the game into an esport will make it boring and stiff. While the esports side wants to make this bigger but needs the core community for it. Meanwhile, the casuals get reported for not picking Kardel "but I can't find him!".

I hope these sides can exist next to each other. For example TI4 had a noob friendly stream, why not have a 'core' stream? If Valve does not want to invest in the casters, opening up the stream (for a cost if they must) could be an option.


Note that I left out the general treatment of James and Valve's handling of events which seem terrible all around. Just wanted to include my view point from neither the core community nor the exports side.
 
Nictel said:
You have three sides now; the tightknit community that plays since the dota1 era, the esports, and the new (casual) players. To me it seems that these sides are in conflict at the moment. There is fear that making the game into an esport will make it boring and stiff. While the esports side wants to make this bigger but needs the core community for it. Meanwhile, the casuals get reported for not picking Kardel "but I can't find him!".

I hope these sides can exist next to each other. For example TI4 had a noob friendly stream, why not have a 'core' stream? If Valve does not want to invest in the casters, opening up the stream (for a cost if they must) could be an option.
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The game is already an eSport. Probably the best one out there on its good days (See: TI3 or TI5). The community is hesitant about making it a Sport, a la Football or NBA, where companies are bending over backwards trying to get their game to get featured on ESPN, who's audience doesn't need or want to watch it anyway. No one wins.

This isn't a core problem with the Dota 2 community. People are using 2GD's Starcraft jokes video, and the general toxicity in the Dota 2 playerbase to make it seem like Dota 2's tournament production has an asshole problem. It doesn't. James hasn't hosted a Dota 2 event in years. He came out of retirement for this event because Valve wanted to use him for fanservice to get people to watch their event. Redeye, his replacement since after TI4, was denied by Valve or their partners. This is on Valve.

Regarding your friend, you can show her any International in history or the recent Starladder, or the Frankfurt major, or any other event till now or any other event after this one. You can still show her this event, and she would still think Dota's shit, because James' casting was a symptom of this shit show, not the cause. I'm 100% certain if this event had a proper, formal, authentic tone like any TI, James would've behaved past his gratuitous opening joke.
 
Tworak said:
loda's stupid fucking neck fell into richard lewis innocent little hands
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It's funny how dota2 fans believe one thing and csgo fans believe another. Loda's gf cussed out RL on Twitter because he put to light how the NA team that EG was going to pick up were match fixing... So they have a little history.

This is essentially a he-said-she-said situation. I think dreamhack would rather side with the player than an analyst for obvious reasons. But let's just conveniently forget that loda went to backstage, a private area that he was not allowed in, looking to start something.
 
To add to that, DotA was an esport (and an important one in some regions of the world) wa-a-ay before DotA 2.
 
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