Curry is an incredible athlete in peak physical condition. Aesthetically it may be more subtle than Lebron's combination of bulk and speed, but Curry is a top tier athlete. I mean to do what he did today on a bad ankle, the way he never stops moving off the ball. Just crazy. Can't even fathom being that in shape.
Steph Curry Supernova
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Jack The Nipper
Banned
Yeah not the whole game, just a bit of touch up on him. Few hard fouls in the game but at the ed of the game you have to play stronger defese than I saw i the OKC game.
Everyone knew he was going to do that shot except the defense apparently. Hell, currys team mates are jogging watching him. I can easily see curry is practicing these shots all the time. He is going to keep taking them and making them.
But I disagree with you a bit, man to man hard defense is very normal even in most nba games today. But the way that play happens almost looks like its staged (not saying it is, not at all) but why arent they doing full court press there? It may be crazy that someone can , will and make the shots. But strong defense to stop them from even getting the ball to half court should be typical in some situations. Bulls have played that defense in a whole quarter.
He had plenty of time to get up the court, I don't think anyone was expecting him to just suddenly pull up from 40 or whatever it was.
In the end good offense will always beat good defense.
Mass Appeal
Member
I was born in 1982 and have seen some of the greatest basketball players ever from Jordan, Magic and Kobe. While I don't remember much of Magics prime since I was still so young, I do clearly remember Michaels and Kobes prime. The game has also changed so much with no hand checking and the addition of zone defenses that it's tough to say how Michael would fair in today's nba.
JORDAN is still the greatest sg ever imo with Kobe right behind him and that's an opinion I have held for a long time now. I always thought Kobes 05/06 year was the best offensively for any sg because he was straight fire that year. I had jaws drop at how good he was because he was doing this with being doubled and tripled every game becausee let's face it, Kobes prime years were wasted on shitty teams.
CURRY this year though has just been better...which is crazy for me to say but the kid is amazing to watch. I know some people prefer LeBrons game where he can barrel his way to the paint but Curry to me is just more fUn to watch because of his shooting. I can belive people think he's boring....the man is literally a video game basketball player come to lofe with 99 shooting in all stats....
Now idk if can rate him better defensively theb Jordan or Kobe because those two made countless all defensive teams while making all nba first team every year but offensively, in today's Nba, Curry is the perfect basketball player. He is definetly a better shooter then
Either of them which is fucking scary for other teams becausee he can be just as deadly from 30 plus feet out as if he were making a layup.
I know others say well they don't guard him close enough or man him up too much but when your first step and release is so quick it makes you really ungaurdable.
Is he the greatest ever? Not yet. He has to keep this up and win more rings but if he does, then he definetly can be the GOAT. He's definetly the best shooter ever imo and that's saying a lot when this league has had so many amazing shooters.
JORDAN is still the greatest sg ever imo with Kobe right behind him and that's an opinion I have held for a long time now. I always thought Kobes 05/06 year was the best offensively for any sg because he was straight fire that year. I had jaws drop at how good he was because he was doing this with being doubled and tripled every game becausee let's face it, Kobes prime years were wasted on shitty teams.
CURRY this year though has just been better...which is crazy for me to say but the kid is amazing to watch. I know some people prefer LeBrons game where he can barrel his way to the paint but Curry to me is just more fUn to watch because of his shooting. I can belive people think he's boring....the man is literally a video game basketball player come to lofe with 99 shooting in all stats....
Now idk if can rate him better defensively theb Jordan or Kobe because those two made countless all defensive teams while making all nba first team every year but offensively, in today's Nba, Curry is the perfect basketball player. He is definetly a better shooter then
Either of them which is fucking scary for other teams becausee he can be just as deadly from 30 plus feet out as if he were making a layup.
I know others say well they don't guard him close enough or man him up too much but when your first step and release is so quick it makes you really ungaurdable.
Is he the greatest ever? Not yet. He has to keep this up and win more rings but if he does, then he definetly can be the GOAT. He's definetly the best shooter ever imo and that's saying a lot when this league has had so many amazing shooters.
Phreakuency
Banned
Jordan is one of the best defenders of all time at the guard position.
Curry is close to the worst.
You also did pretty well to watch Jordan in his prime and appreciate it while you were 7-9 years old.
I also say that if the defense that Jordan had on him throughout his career was still allowed, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The game is so different nowadays it's not even funny.
Anyway, Curry is having an absolutely historic run but he has 1 ring.
Worst case scenario, the Warriors don't win another title and Curry may not even crack the top 10 players of all time when all is said and done.
You could even argue that he'd have to keep up this shooting for at least another couple years to be known as the greatest scorer as well.
Again, what he is doing has never been done before but we're living in the age where one guy scores a lone 40+ points and suddenly he is 'great'. Suddenly Curry puts together a season and a half of insane basketball and the collection of rings the real greats have are just forgotten and disrespected.
I get that people who are in their so called prime as fans want to be able to say their era was the best but lets wait a couple years and see what happens.
Calm down Oscar Robertson. No one is disrespecting the legends. It's simply plain fact that this sort of shooting, at this sort of efficiency, has never been done before. It's redefining what every one thought possible about scoring. No one from ANY era has been capable of what curry is doing, and for some reason people feel the need to downplay it. Just enjoy watching history. It won't hurt you.
dragonyeuw
Member
When I try to extrapolate how Mike would do today, I look at guys like Westbrook or Wade from 2010, and see that MJ had all of those guys best athletic traits, but with an extra 2-3 inches in height and better shooting. Which is to say, he would dominate today. If James Harden can flop his way to 28ppg in today's game, I see no reason why MJ wouldn't be on the line 12 times a night with the way the game is called now.
On another note, I'm dying to see Durant and Curry go shot for shot in a shoot-out. He's pretty much the only player in the league capable of looking Curry in the eye offensively. Problem is, Westbrook( as dynamic as he is) commands the ball as well so we're not going to see anything like that as long as they're playing together.
dragonyeuw
Member
This is what Curry sees at the 3point line:
Sho_Nuff82
Member
"Curry is close to the worst"
We live in a world where Steve Nash has 2 MVPs and people somehow call Curry a horrific defender.
We live in a world where Steve Nash has 2 MVPs and people somehow call Curry a horrific defender.
FlutterPuffs
Member
I need stats to point out if Curry is close to the worst :|
I can't believe people think Curry would have it harder in the 90s. Against all those unathletic white guards and shitty teams that Jordan padded his stats (and the Bulls record) against? Curry would average 40 a game without even blinking. The NBA was so diluted back then, the competition night in and night out wasn't nearly as fierce. Who cares about hand checking when the dude manning you up wouldn't make it in today's D-league.
Who is Lynn?
He is the best basketball player in the league since Michael Nordan. Bar none. There is abs Lately no question or room for doubt. Well above LeBron, Kobe, and Duncan.
He's an okay perimeter defender. He does just enough, but great pgs can abuse him. Just look at what Westbrook did to curry any time he was on him. Ran right by him.
But curry has great anticipation and timing, so he actually pulls down more boards than you would expect, and grabs a few steals per game.
He'll never be nba all defense, but he's also not a gaping hole on defense.
POWERSPHERE
Member
All this Curry vs Jordan talk is kinda silly, but in straight point playing Curry is amazing but if we're talking just a man purpose built for the game who looked incredible playing it, Jordan is as iconic as it gets.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
dragonyeuw
Member
Yeah, look at all these white, unathletic guards. Of course, everyone Curry faces night in and night out has the athleticism of prime Drexler, right?
I don't think he is going to change the game actaully. He is literally a once in the history of the game talent. A bunch of kids aren't going to be born that can suddenly hit 30'+ shots consistently the way Curry can. He is going to have a crazy run, probably go down as the best offensive player in history and you won't see another player like him for another 100 years.
dragonyeuw
Member
And that's because posters like the above speaking to 'white nonathletic guards' are speaking as though you *need* to be extremely athletic to be a great defender. Great defense is as much about positioning, anticipation/reaction, and desire as it is about physical attributes.Shane Battier, Tony Allen, and Ron Artest are 3 of the best perimeter defenders of the last 15 years, and none of them are hyper-athletic. In fact, the guys who gave MJ the most trouble were smaller guards in the 6'1-6'4 range who had great lateral movement like Joe Dumars, Payton, Alvin Robertson, Kevin Johnson who were able to limit dribble penetration at times.
Mark Price ate in the 90s and made 4 ASGs. Curry would fucking wash that era just like he does right now. Greatness transcends eras.
Back when Big O played Steph would avg stupid numbers with the primitive defenses people played back then.
Other than them making steps to take goons out of the game, defense now is on another planet compared to what it was in previous eras. Id love to see Curry before you couldnt play zone. I'd absolutely love it.
Back when Big O played Steph would avg stupid numbers with the primitive defenses people played back then.
Other than them making steps to take goons out of the game, defense now is on another planet compared to what it was in previous eras. Id love to see Curry before you couldnt play zone. I'd absolutely love it.
elrechazado
Banned
This is such hyperbolic nonsense. The Pistons and Knicks teams of the 80s and 90s were so physically destructive.
That said, curry would be a great in any era, but yeah eras are different.
Mazdaspeed
Member
I didn't watch either of the games versus the Pistons but from looking at the box score I wouldn't say he was completely stopped and shut down.
Game 1: Warriors 109 Pistons 95
7/18, 3/7 from 3. 5 rebounds, 5 assist, 3 steals, 22 points
Game 2: Warriors 95 Pistons 113
13/26, 7/15 from 3. 7 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals, 38 points.
With the rules as they were the Pistons would just pummel you into submission. Yeah saying that the league was soft during that time is laughable.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
why no one expects that? look at the clock, and even after he made it only .6 left. also, he has shot from there quite a few times. I don't understand why you or the team wouldn't expect it. I have been expecting that shot for months....
Can you explain why you woldn't? low clock, tied game. his team mates going slow behind him. What else would you expect?
You expect this shot in any situation with curry but
low clock have to shoot to tie/win you expect it even more becase you dont even have time to get down the court. Did they have a little time to get a closer shot, yes. But it was ever the plan. The plan was to do exactly what they did. You gotta stop it as a defense team to realize this is what he does. Long shots. You don't turn your back and run to your side of the court with 4 seconds left.
I dont really kow pope but is he a grade a defender typically?
Mazdaspeed
Member
They may have expected a time out as the warriors still had one left.
Theyve been coached their entire lives to defend the easy 2 and give up the 3 in that situation.
Steph didnt need to take a 3 to win. So if you press up he can just as easily beat you for a 2. He defies 100 years of basketball knowledge. Thats why you dont expect him to pull up there.
Big Baybee
Member
Pretty much this. Guarding Curry is impossible lol.
I kind of think they did but he's so quick that you can't stop him. It's not like he even has to set himself. I mean you know he's taking the shot from anywhere.
yeah pretty much this. for literally any other player in NBA history forcing them to chuck up a 40-footer is what the defense wants. I'd go out on a limb here and say that even if Larry Bird pulled up from 40 feet in that situation the defense would let out a sigh of relief.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
yeah that is what I was saying earlier, they have to stop going to what they know and start going with what they know now about him and the team.
I feel the warriors are playing quite the chess match and going agaist the grain. I think nba coaching staff and teams are good enough to do it better but it seems to be taking longer than thought.
I have always wondered what would happen in sports or games if you completely go against the grain, the warriors sort of show that idea and actually doing it well.
I dont think the warriors have a set up that will work long term but for now with teams following things like a politician it is going well. I dont think he will beat you for a 2. People keep bringing that up but if it was that easy to just go and get 2 then jordan, kobe would have went and did it more often. You do have to work with your team mates well if you are playing a close and rough defense.
Maybe it is a coaching issue for a lot of nba teams and maybe steve is winning a lot of the mind games with currys nice play and shot. What would happen if you ran a play in the nfl where the qb was further back and had like 8 guys running for a nice block and run pass play that was set up for the most efficient wall to score?
finowns
Member
Where do you get the confidence to spout this? Do you think you have Curry figured when the best defensive players and minds don't? Curry constantly has someone on him and he makes them pay for it. And intentionally fouling a 90% FT'r makes me doubt if you've ever held a basketball.
nah man, you really don't seem to understand the effect that shooting from distance like steph can has on a defense. you say "I don't think he will beat you for a 2" which has been proven false all season long. that's precisely why he is guarded the way he is, because he can and will beat you for the 2. seriously go interview the best defenders in the league and ask them if steph has the ability to beat them for a 2. insist that you're leaning towards "no" and watch them shoot milk out their nose. when you've got defenders respecting your shot from 30+ feet out it opens up the floor for you to exploit whatever the defense gives you and there's always something.
He got the ball with about 5 seconds. That's plenty of time to get up the court and go for a layup or a short jumper, or even a regular 3. Instead he just waited for everyone to get to the other end then he pulled up from huge distance.
Not to mention the defense is very aware that Curry is pretty good at getting fouled on his shot, so they're not just going to smother him every inch down the court.
It's easy to criticize the losing team, but Curry could have taken advantage of practically any situation. In fact I'd say OKC put themselves in the optimal position of having Curry go for extreme long range shot. He just made it. You can't do anything against that.
dragonyeuw
Member
We're watching 2 different games. Defenders absolutely do not back off and let him shoot. Here's the two things that make him absolutely unguardable:
1) A lighting quick release
2) Crazy handles.
So, he is basically creating space for himself off the dribble, and only needs a split second to get a shot off combined with uncanny accuracy. Plus he is incredibly adept at playing off-ball, coming off screens, catch and shoot. There's no aspect of shooting that he hasn't mastered, basically. Take the fact that he has CONSISTENT range from 30 feet, and defenders overplay him and bite on his every move. There's never been a player in the history of basketball who you actually have to 'fear' shooting that far away. So what do you do? Throw a double at him from the time he hits half-court?Ok, but who do you double off? Klay is probably the second best shooter in the league( or third depending on how you rank Durant). Draymond is a high percentage 3point shooter himself. So basically, it's a pick your poison situation. Curry is ridiculously potent, and he's surrounded by weapons who can also make you pay. Hence the 51-5 start( or whatever their record is now) and likely to break the all-time record.
The bottomline is, Curry is taking more than half of his shots from 3. This is a guy who WANTS to take 3s as the biggest part of his arsenal. It's different from a guy like Durant, who takes like 19 shots and 6 of them are 3's. Curry is taking, what, 18 shots? And like 10-11 of them are 3's, and he's shooting 45% on that much volume. That kind of potency and volume from deep changes the way the defense plays you.
Damerman
Member
Just saw the last shot versus okc. Wow. He literally claimed the game using his ability to shoot from half court. His confidence alone will make the defense trip up. The tactical thinking is one thing, because no one is going to guard from back there(even though westbrook still contested the shot), but the ability to pull it off and the confidence to do it just makes him the best in the league. His ball handling skills and his very smart/reliable teammates is what confirms that they will be champions though.
Its working because the way teams have been built they cannot compete against the Warriors small lineup. They go small but essentially give up nothing in doing so. Draymond Green can rebound with the best of them (despite the Warriors getting murdered on the boards last night). When the Warriors go small the court is huge for them because everyone can shoot, and Steph can shoot from fucking 40 feet back. How do you defend that? You go small and they will kill you on the boards, they will lock you up because they are still one of the best defensive teams in the league, and your team still can't space the floor like they can. You stay big, and you might out rebound them but you are now betting on beating the Warriors 4 on 3 because once you double Steph on the pick and roll (you kinda have to) Draymond Green will pick your guys apart with his passing.
Not everyone has the personnel to do what the Warriors do. No one does. Teams were built that way.
It's not like teams haven't tried the small ball thing before. Dwight Howard's teams in Orlando were basically him plus a bunch of 3 point shooters. It got them pretty far but they didn't have a singular shooter with Curry's talent. George Karl and Mike D'Antoni both had success with smallball too. Let's not pretend that this is some strategic coup which will soon sweep the league, the only reason it works is because of Curry.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Why is someone crashing Chef Curry's thread talking about a terrible and boring sport like baseball?
elrechazado
Banned
And clay and draymond. Not many if any teams historically have had one of the best shooters in history and the second best shooter in the league in the same team at the same time. As they say in Latin, this team is Sui generis
He's right tho
Both those teams were some among the worst defensive teams. Perimeter defense to be specific. They were terrible. GS is one of the best on that end as well.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
well yea....they won last year USING D'Antoni's system. that was the thing, as people were saying, D'Antoni's system would never win a Championship, but then the Warriors did it. The thing about the warriors tho, is they have the perfect people to run it.
I haven't been an nba fan for many years, but for some reason I clicked on this thread and saw this. Those shots are ridiculous!
Had never even heard of this guy before now. How long has he been in the league?
He was the 7th pick of the 2009 draft. He has always been good, but he had to sit out a lot due to ankle injuries. In the 2012-13 season he really started to overcome those injuries and develop into a legit star. He's improved every season since then.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
for many years. probably the amount of time you haven't paid attention to the NBA.
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