Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida are very much in play. Those flip, it's President Trump.
The Amount of Hillary Hate Scares Me
- Thread starter LittleBoots
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Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida are very much in play. Those flip, it's President Trump.
This seems like a fair summation.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
To be fair, the quote, itself, was pretty innocuous, and the fact that Mussolini said it doesn't really mean anything. Somebody being shitty, even really really shitty, even historically and catastrophically shitty does not necessarily invalidate any other thought or contribution they ever had. If one of Hitler's paintings were as great as Van Gogh's "Starry Night", it wouldn't become an unworthy piece of art to appreciate and discuss because it was Hitler that painted it. Gawker baiting Trump into retweeting a pretty unremarkable Mussolini quote is just gotcha bullshit.
No, no, you're right. I don't disagree at all. I think what I said contributes, though. If people were more willing to vote for third parties, even at the local level, we'd be more likely to see a third party actually have a chance of being relevant, instead of this zero-percent chance we have no because everyone's discouraged (actively, as seen in this thread) from voting for anything that isn't Red or Blue.
it was a retweet of a mussolini quote, so they were correct
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I think the point is he's dumb enough to fall for it
excelsiorlef
Member
Why are you talking in general when I'm talking specifically to left identified people who claim to hate the GOP but refuse to vote or proclaim they will vote in a way that helps them?
This isn't about convincing GOP people to vote Dem.
it does show how willing he is to throw in with people and say things that he hasn't researched at all
eBay Huckster
Member
Maybe so! But I get the feeling it would have to be some kind of regional third party, if only because national support would be too dispersed to really make any difference in FPTP (see also: the vote-splitting shitshow that has been Canada for a solid 23 years now).
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
I mean, people just Retweet things that they find interesting or cogent. Granted, a politician should probably be more scrupulous, but given his entire appeal is being unpolished, and therefore apart from the parts of the political establishment people don't care for, I wouldn't really expect him to research every thing he retweets on the most disposable platform humans have ever created. Plus, retweeting a dead dictator's quote is a pretty far cry from retweeting white supremacists looking to get their hooks into young kids Trump might accidentally point toward them.
Indeed, a person who's had an evolution of beliefs/policies throughout the decades that will help far more people is so bad voting for a racist snake is the message America needs to wake up. Makes sense, yes.
Seems about right.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
No, but I would worry about lower youth turnout.
Slackerish
Member
Your source please?!
Here is mine:
Did Hillary Clinton start the Obama birther movement?
Was Hillary Clinton the Original Birther?
lol, that's precisely the reason Bernie is getting clobbered.
RustyNails
Member
Will you bring some hot lunch to my internment camp location when he rounds me and my family up? Do you have the balls to talk to Immigrant families at the border detention centers and tell them they deserve all the shit and pain because we must burn America to the ground?
These trollbait posts remind me of League of Shadows from Batman Begins. When a forest grows too wild, a purging fire is inevitable.
Yeah, realistically, you're almost certainly right. I like to be a little more optimistic, or at least a little more hopeful, haha.
At the very least, though, giving third parties (or independents, as in the following example) attention has potential to draw issues into the light that otherwise wouldn't even be considered. Kinda like what Bernie's doing. Even if (when ;_
he loses the nomination, all of that attention he got, all the things he talked about... Those aren't going away. Hillary won't give the country what it needs, but someone else will, precisely because someone like Bernie stood up and said "hey, it's about time".It's just a shame it can't be today instead of tomorrow.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
It's bad optics, no doubt. But quoting something innocuous from a psychopath doesn't make one a psychopath.
Which is especially important in a year when the GOP primaries are seeing record turnout.
Hillary/Bernie is likely fucked in November.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
True, true. It's terrible optics, but Trump's entire campaign is predicated on turning bad optics into good optics by leveraging people's hatred of a political establishment that values "optics" above policy. He's building a coalition, some sacrifices have to be made!
Florida is going to be tough for Trump given how much of the Hispanic population he has alienated, along with a sizable black community.
And he is beating her at it so it only makes her attempt harder, but lol right
Monocle
Member
Old news. A clone of Mao telepathically assumed direct control of Clitlerbot Chassis v3.452 (AKA "Hillary") a couple years after the Lewinski scandal broke.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Sanders has been in politics for decades.
The difference is that he was more of a background player while she was up front since being First Lady to a popular president that the GOP couldn't stand.
Prodigal Son
Member
Just because someone is more left-leaning on issues, doesn't mean they agree or favor every other left-leaning candidate. Democratic party candidates aren't even consistently left on all of their policies. There a numerous policy positions that mean different things to different people and that often times affect people's candidates of choice:
- Tulsa Gabbard has recently shown support for Bernie's foreign policy positions.
- My aunt supports Bernie's minimum wage proposals.
- My folks share his overall distrust of the establishment.
- I support Bernie's socialism along with his harshness on wall-street, big corporations and legal bribing.
People support candidates for reasons that are so much more complex than where they sit, overall, on the political spectrum. If someone doesn't feel that Clinton speaks to the issues that matter most to them, they absolutely shouldn't be compelled to show up for her in November.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Possibly. I never underestimate the power of stupid people, especially when they're motivated by racial hatred. If minorities and youths are disenfranchised and don't turn out, the racist asshole vote coming out in droves for Trump may push him into the White House.
My biggest fear is a Rubio primary win. He's leading Hillary just about everywhere, and will likely be swept into office come November.
eBay Huckster
Member
Not necessarily - most indications (namely, party-ID on voter registrations) are that these are Republican general-election voters who are finally participating in the primaries, rather than new voters entirely.
Heavy_D206
Member
The big difference for me is that Bernie is an Independent Senator and always has been.
I'm sick of the 2 party system and Hillary doesn't appeal to me at all.
A Rubio primary win is basically impossible at this point unless the GOP somehow rigged it, and they can't really do that without a superdelegate system.
and if these people dislike right-wing policies more then they are the ones to blame if democrats lose.
first-past-the-post voting in a two party system means you always need to vote against the candidate you hate and not always for the one you love. that's the reality of the american political system.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
If you give a shit about your fellow citizens in the least, you'll feel compelled to show for her. Because not doing so is giving a vote to the GOP. Everything we've fought to achieve for the past few decades will be unraveled by a Republican House, Senate, president, and SCOTUS.
Which is why your man Bernie has made a point repeatedly to say that, no matter who wins this primary, his supporters need to vote for the Democrat in November. He understands what's at stake here. He doesn't want you to take your ball and go home. Swallow your pride and accept that a vote for an imperfect friend is better than standing by while the country elects a deadly enemy.
A vote for the Republican party:
Republicans: 1
Democrats: 0
A vote for the Democratic party:
Republicans: 0
Democrats: 1
A vote for neither party:
Republicans: 0
Democrats: 0
(For the record, I will be voting Hillary if (when ;_
she wins, because the status quo, as awful as it is, is better than what the GOP will do to us.)Prodigal Son
Member
I disagree. Not everyone votes for candidates because they do not favor the alternative. While that might be your rationale (and, in my view, it's a very reasonable rationale), it is not the only legitimate one.
--
Before the assumption is made as it inevitably will be, I'd like to clarify I fully intent to support Hillary Clinton this November.
I'm not here to make the claim that either party will be more beneficial for the American people. I happen to share the view with most people here that the democrats are obviously better for economy and the American people. For this discussion, that's besides the point.
All I'm trying to establish that people who do not want to support Hillary Clinton shouldn't need to support her if her campaign doesn't speak to them.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
If you were the only vote being counted, sure. If large groups of people are going to be selfish and childish about Bernie not going past the primary, that math quickly falls in favor of the Republican side.
SneakersSO
Member
Sorry OP, but I fully intend on writing in Bernie's name or Jill Stein, should he not get the nomination. I only vote for people I believe in. Pure & simple. That's why I voted for Obama. It's why I vote for the candidate I research and agree on issues with.
The truth is, when it comes to corporate interests vs. Public interest, I have only negative feelings for Hillary. I don't hate her, but I neither trust, or think she would have the public's best interest at heart whenever it comes to odds with corporate interests. Once Bernie is out, my interest in the election is effectively over. I'll vote in the general for an independent, and that's it.
The truth is, when it comes to corporate interests vs. Public interest, I have only negative feelings for Hillary. I don't hate her, but I neither trust, or think she would have the public's best interest at heart whenever it comes to odds with corporate interests. Once Bernie is out, my interest in the election is effectively over. I'll vote in the general for an independent, and that's it.
The effect is that the Democrats lose a lot of potential votes, yes. But the Republicans won't be gaining those votes, is my point.
FWIW, I don't put much weight in the idea that a lot of Bernie supporters will vote Trump if Bernie doesn't win the nom. I believe there are some, but they're a tiny minority. I can only hope I'm not wrong...
Aaronology
Member
The post you are quoting does not appear to be claiming this, though.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
A vote for the Republican party:
Republicans: 1
Democrats: 0
A vote for the Democratic party:
Republicans: 0
Democrats: 1
A vote for neither party:
Republicans: 0
Democrats: 0
(For the record, I will be voting Hillary if (when ;_
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"
excelsiorlef
Member
They should if they want to avoid GOP supreme control, which will include molding the Supreme Court in a way that will ensure all truly progressive legislation ends up unconstitutional for the next several decades.
Which goes back to the fact that no one has an answer to this
Which is where we started.
Not voting Democrat in this election is conceding to the GOP the House, the Senate the Presidency and the Supreme Court.
Any progressive who is cool with that is nothing but hot air and cheap talk.
eBay Huckster
Member
More to the point: Pennsylvania gave Obama a wider margin of victory than Colorado, the tipping point state for 270 EVs in 2012, and is generally inelastic in its vote share. It ain't flipping.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
If record turnouts keep up for him, while angry Sanders supporters stay home, it's possible.
Maybe not entirely likely, but never say never.
PA is incredibly inelastic and there aren't enough Pennsatucky voters to overcome their deficits in Pittsburgh and Philly/suburban Philly who almost always vote.
I absolutely wish the people who are saying they won't vote would reconsider.
But... How am I supposed to, and why should I, coerce them into voting for someone they have intense distrust for? I think Hillary is fucking slime. I do not like her at all. She's two-faced and says what makes her popular, and does what corporations want from her. Better than the alternative, but still slime.
Why should I tell anyone to vote for someone like that? I can justify it to myself, but not to others.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Even if you remove Pennsylvania, there's still the possibility of Colorado and Virginia flipping, which would give the GOP the win (assuming Florida and Ohio also flip).
I'm not saying these things will happen. But they are possible. So for someone to say Trump cannot win is just wrong.
excelsiorlef
Member
Be cause you don't want your country to regress into the cesspool of the GOP control, because you don't want the GOP to control the Supreme Court for the next 30 fucking years.
And that's without me touching and how insane you sound calling someone with a 93% similar voting record to Sanders two-faced slime.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Of course, I was just putting that quote out there.
I suppose what people have put out here as well, about how losing the White House means that there will be a conservative in the Supreme Court, which means decades more of Bernie's vision not coming to reality.
If they somehow still don't want to vote after that reason, then that's up to them if they want to behave like that.
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