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[NullPointer]

Does this mean cross-play between the next Xbox and PC for games?

If so, will everybody with an Xbox need to attach a keyboard and mouse to be viable in multiplayer modes? Or should we expect all lobbies to be split along controller and KB&M?

 

[Hendrick's]

Judging by the success of the Steam Machine, a Windows Gaming Machine sounds like a great idea.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Whats forward compatible? My 360 running Gears Ult? Thats a future I would like to see..

It means your XBO running Gears 7 at 720p or something. (as an extreme example, not sure if they'd scale the resolution down so much)

 

[Hydrargyrus]

I like the idea of carrying my game library from one gen to another, I really do and expect to be this way with PS5, but I'm not going to buy a game device that is going to be obsolete in a few years like a mobile phone.

This takes the worst from the console gaming and the worst of PC gaming, and adds only the cross buy...

 

[Movalpolos]

Except there will be more, even more frequently, lol. The only thing being changed is the console cycle and the fact that it will finally be more or less a PC and we keep all of our games from here on out. They are not killing Xbox, merely changing it and merging it into Windows. Which has been the plan all along anyway.

I already corrected myself but you didn't bother to read that.

 

[outunderthestars]

Does this mean cross-play between the next Xbox and PC for games?

If so, will everybody with an Xbox need to attach a keyboard and mouse to be viable in multiplayer modes? Or should we expect all lobbies to be split along controller and KB&M?

People are playing PC games right now with both controllers and Kb&m.

I can hold my own in battlefield on PC with a controller.

 

[Raide]

This also means no more innovation on controller? Like add a button or new motion sensor.

Well, they made the Elite controller and the 360 pad is still the best controller for PC gaming. They will support OR and probably mouse and keyboard also.

 

[EvilAlPacino]

Does this mean cross-play between the next Xbox and PC for games?

If so, will everybody with an Xbox need to attach a keyboard and mouse to be viable in multiplayer modes? Or should we expect all lobbies to be split along controller and KB&M?

I would still play with a controller if I game on a PC. Heck, I do that now with Titanfall on PC. I use an Xbox One controller.

 

[c0de]

Whats forward compatible? My 360 running Gears Ult? Thats a future I would like to see..

You can play new games at lower settings?

 

[justsomeguy]

I really don't know why MS just positioned the XB1 against a gaming PC unless they know it's gonna kill their console and they want to make their bucks in the PC space.

Why would anyone buy a walled-garden Xbox console when you can get all of its games and many thousands more on a gaming PC?

There have been so many posts in this forum about why people buy consoles. It's surely not that hard to fathom?

Living room friendly form factor.
Simplicity (plug and play).
UI optimised for living room environment.

People don't solely buy consoles to play exclusives, just look at 3rd party sales figures.

 

[harSon]

I really don't know why MS just positioned the XB1 against a gaming PC unless they know it's gonna kill their console and they want to make their bucks in the PC space.

Why would anyone buy a walled-garden Xbox console when you can get all of its games and many thousands more on a gaming PC?

I know this may be shocking to you, but there's a significant population of gamers who are not PC gamers and will never be PC gamers.

 

[Movalpolos]

Judging by the success of the Steam Machine, a Windows Gaming Machine sounds like a great idea.

Steam Machines have been successful?

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

At the end of 2016, Xbox One will be 3 years on market.

Here's my bold prediction:

We're going to see an Xbox hardware refresh in time for the holidays. Let's say, October.
It will also support 4K Blu-rays.

I would not mind for that to happen if it would mean Gears 4 for example is 1080p or even 4K and 60fps in both SP and MP. But all that remains to be seen. It's clear that this is their plan now but we have no idea when they introduce it.

I just really hope this decision won't be a failure. Xbox One as it is is doing a fine job in terms of sales. Nope, no Ps4 numbers but still good. Don't throw that away MS.

 

[c0de]

This also means no more innovation on controller? Like add a button or new motion sensor.

Why not? Old games won't support new features though, obviously.

 

[justsomeguy]

It's not relatively low cost. If anything, its another development pipeline; its multiplicative. Going by how much early software sales were for all of the current hardware generation machine, there is just no guarantee I will make anywhere near my ROI. Its added risk with little or negative return. Devs won't do it.

The only possibility this has is if the new hardware machines are running native backwards compatibility of the older machines.

Which is exactly what has been said is the plan: full back and forward compatibility.

 

[icespide]

Steam Machines have been successful?

pretty sure that poster was being sarcastic

 

[SomethingInTheSea]

I think their implementation of this at a hardware level is going to be a bit more elegant and technologically innovative than what you're implying. And I don't see them dropping console gaming, considering a SIGNIFICANT chunk of their overall profit from gaming comes from Xbox Live - whether it be subscriptions, DLC, etc. A model that simply does not and cannot exist on PC gaming.

Microsoft is a software company, and is intrinsically linked to computers, so it makes sense to bring the underlying feature that makes those two platforms what they are to consoles - which is inherent upgradability. I think they're going to take a calculated risk blurring the lines of PC and consoles at a software level, hoping that the former won't cannibalize the hardware sales of the former - and potentially position themselves for a net positive with the existence of a new market share to sell their games too. And if they play their cards right, they can pivot themselves to take advantage of the PC's library with respect to their home console - considering what's under the hood at a software level.

I'm not sure what you envision, but at a hardware level, I see a console as it exists today - albeit expandable during the course of its lifetime. Basically a console whose release is merely a baseline in terms of processing/graphical power. All games will be playable across all SKUs moving forward, but they'll implement some type of a tiered system informing consumers at what graphical fidelity your respective SKU can play a given game at. I'm not sure if this is technologically feasible in a manner that is purely accessible to everyone, regardless of their technological prowess, but if they're able to pull it off - it's pretty fucking genius. You'll basically be able to pursue mass market consumers with an affordable baseline, and attract power users who value high end graphics/performance as well as those who are willing to undergo refreshes every 1-2 years. They'll also have 100% backwards compatibility under this model, well - at least for retail releases.

By its very definition this new direction would make it almost inevitable that they're going to bring the paid for LIVE model to PC, probably for exclusive games that run through the Windows Store. Otherwise somebody else could manufacture a steam box like product that is cheaper than an Xbox One, but through which you can play multiplayer games without paying for a subscription and undercut their entire business model.

 

[gamz]

This is like MS saying fuck it all and just flipping the board game table, lol.

Someone has to do it.

 

[EvilAlPacino]

I really don't know why MS just positioned the XB1 against a gaming PC unless they know it's gonna kill their console and they want to make their bucks in the PC space.

Why would anyone buy a walled-garden Xbox console when you can get all of its games and many thousands more on a gaming PC?

Understand this.

Not everyone likes to game on a PC. Simple as that. I have a very capable gaming PC, but prefer to game on the Xbox. There's no mystery to why.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

LOL, because devs have never been able to support multiple performance points...

*COUGH COUGH* PC games and graphics settings *COUGH COUGH*

This is true but one of the larger benefits of a console is the amount they stretch out of the hardware through optimization specific to the system. Adding more hardware revisions will obviously mean more work for the devs. I'm pretty curious where the major third party publishers stand on it to be honest, since it means they'll have to pay for more work hours, but I've not seen anything about how this will expand the actual Xbox userbase to provide the sales in return.

 

[SPDIF]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up previously, but I wonder if this MS patent that was recently published has any relevance here. Rather than release an expensive brand new console every couple of years, instead they just release updated modular parts, allowing you to pick and choose what you want to upgrade. Essentially just a very user friendly gaming PC.

Modular Computing Device

 

[Bold One]

No reason for devs to do that, they don't benefit from console price point, they want best possible performance on lowest possible spec device, for max sales.

Even the platform holders don't make money on console sales, it's a v v v low margin game.

there is no reason for devs to do a lot of things, low margins is still margins, otherwise DLC and Season passes wouldn't be a thing, the past few years has taught me that if you give the suits an inch they'll take a mile.

but let's see how this pans out though...

 

[outunderthestars]

I like the idea of carrying my game library from one gen to another, I really do and expect to be this way with PS5, but I'm not going to buy a game device that is going to be obsolete in a few years like a mobile phone.

This takes the worst from the console gaming and the worstof PC gaming, and adds only the cross buy...

How would a new hardware revision suddenly make your current system obsolete?

Right now you are gaming on a PS4 with absolutely no promise of that library being forward compatible. Those PS3, PS2, and PS1 games you own? Fuck, can't play those on your current system.

At some point we have to break away from the generational model. This is the first step in that direction.

This is true but one of the larger benefits of a console is the amount they stretch out of the hardware through optimization specific to the system. Adding more hardware revisions will obviously mean more work for the devs. I'm pretty curious where the major third party publishers stand on it to be honest, since it means they'll have to pay for more work hours, but I've not seen anything about how this will expand the actual Xbox userbase to provide the sales in return.

How much optimization is there to be had now that both consoles are basically low powered PC's. The days of the Cell processor taking years to figure out are over.

 

[jelly]

I want this.

I would absolutely pay $350 again to see my favorite 2014 & 2015 titles run on the Xbox platform in 1080p & 60fps.

It will interesting to see if old games see any improvement. Devs will need to update them.

Next gen feature, AF.

 

[Hoo-doo]

This will be the way of consoles going forward. Nintendo will introduce this with NX too.

Right, because Nintendo has proven itself to be super forward-thinking when it comes to tech and the console market, right?

If anything, Xbox sidling up to the PC market leaves space for Nintendo to have a bigger influence again in the console space.

 

[Ol No Bones]

Boom. There it is. Just like I said. There won't be a new Xbox after this one.

Are people illiterate or something? They want to make more hardware than they every have it seems. What the hell is going on with these comments?

 

[SneakersSO]

Which is exactly what has been said is the plan: full back and forward compatibility.

Sorry, my bad - I meant hardware emulation. Backwards compatibility VIA hardware emulation. Cause devs will not be doing native support for their software for all these boxes. I guarantee you that.

 

[GHG]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up previously, but I wonder if this MS patent that was recently published has any relevance here. Rather than release an expensive brand new console every couple of years, instead they just release updated modular parts, allowing you to pick and choose what you want to upgrade. Essentially just a very user friendly gaming PC.

Modular Computing Device

Heh I think I've seen this somewhere before. Oh wait, I have:

 

[Graphics Horse]

It will interesting to see if old games see any improvement. Devs will need to update them.

Next gen feature, AF.

Don't know how easy it would be for all of them but I bet someone does it.

 

[rokkerkory]

At the end of 2016, Xbox One will be 3 years on market.

Here's my bold prediction:

We're going to see an Xbox hardware refresh in time for the holidays. Let's say, October.
It will also support 4K Blu-rays.

I think we'll see the next iteration at next year's E3. Will play 4k for sure. Refreshed with medium PC specs. The price point will be kept around $400 and current x1 $200. Released fall of 2017.

 

[Trago]

Why is Steam, iOS, and Android so successful? I think part of it is the great catalog of software you can access and more importantly, bring with you with new hardware.

In five years, my copy of Rise of The Tomb Raider will work on Steam.

If Microsoft takes notes from Steam, then hardware will not matter. You want to play their software? JUST DO IT! It's there.

 

[Movalpolos]

Are people illiterate or something? They want to make more hardware than they every have it seems. What the hell is going on with these comments?

You must be. I already corrected myself in another post. But you decide to quote this anyway.

 

[goldenpp72]

This would be fine if the consoles were as stated both forward and backwards compatible just like a PC. People who compare it to the 32x and such are basically ignoring the entire PC, tablet, and phone market. People don't mind upgrading devices, the problem is when you have exclusives tied to said upgrades it starts to fracture the base.

Plus the potential to be able to run older console games with uncompressed textures, higher resolutions, framerates, etc because they were (like pc titles) designed with future hardware in mind as well would be pretty damn cool. I'm not a pc gamer and don't plan on becoming one, but it's one good facet of that platform, you can within reason play almost all games from a long time ago even today due to the OS having compatibility modes and such, of course some games require fan mods/hacks when they are extremely old but I don't believe that is the norm.

I have an Xbox one right now, if they made an Xbox two in a year or so but the lineup is still the same and I just don't feel like upgrading yet, then i'd be totally fine with that. When I felt enough time passed to justify an update, i'd update.. Just like a cell phone. I bought mine the day it came out, but I don't plan on upgrading it again for another year or two, likely being with it for 3 or 4 years if it doesn't break.

Of course, imo the entire console industry is an unhealthy environment. You have a base of people who claim they will 'get bored' of gaming if they don't have a new console which is one of the dumbest notions i've ever seen. People don't get bored of music or movies, books, etc even though the delivery method rarely changes, why does gaming require this? Obviously, increased specs and function is exciting, but it seems like gaming is kind of hitting a wall where the big barrier is really user penetration not increasing enough to justify expensive and varied game design. We're at a point where the budgets for games expanded too much while the userbases on the platforms didn't increase much, which is causing games to be safe, homogenized and in turn redundant and cookie cutter, that won't change just because Sony releases a PS5 with 10x the specs.

The Xbox One and PS4 are by far the most disappointing jumps in console history despite being near a decade from their prior iterations, and really do not feel much bigger than a normal phone upgrade. With that said, I do believe removing new console cycles would be the best way to increase overall saturation and keep dev cost reasonable. It would allow the poorer gamers to still play with more outdated visuals, while keep the most enthusiast on the curve and the rest the same, while not having disruptive generations that really aren't doing much good these days.

I mean really, for this generation what has been done on the PS4 and Xbox One that just couldn't have been done prior but with worse visuals? We're not seeing advancements that are so staggering that it obliterates the prior consoles like we have in the past, so I say until a huge new jump CAN happen, just do iterations (think going from Genesis to PS1, that's one hell of a jump and justifies a new platform just like VHS to DVD, or DVD to Blu/streaming)

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Still dont understand people want MS to get out of the console business or say "there's no Xbox after Xbox One."

How does it benefit anyone if they exit the console business?

It is a bit annoying to have too consoles that are so similar in features, genre coverage etc. out there, with their own set of exclusives.

People talk about the need for competition, but to me that comes on the game front. There are more great games than ever out there, so there is immense competition and pressure for devs to really make their games great if they want them to stand out and sell.

Hardware will always move forward regardless of whether there are a bunch of different consoles out there, or we go more to PC like boxes that play all the games and you just swap in new graphics cards etc. every few years (made much easier to do than in PC).

 

[fallingdove]

People all face this with smartphones yearly and PC graphics card also. It's never been a big enough issue for people to stop buying games. I guess they're trying to change the way people think about consoles in general.

It will be interesting to see how developers react to such a shift. With mobile games, from a technical perspective, they are developed for the lowest common denominator to market to as many devices as possible. This means fewer titles taking advantage of the more advanced hardware.

If developers take more of a PC approach to making games for the ever changing Xbox hardware, I wonder if you will see attach rates slow as configurations age. I know that personally, I will be hesitant to purchase games if we start to see a divide in performance from an earlier configuration to later generation... digital foundry will have to start Xbox One Vs Xbox One comparison videos.

 

[ironcreed]

There have been so many posts in this forum about why people buy consoles. It's surely not that hard to fathom?

Living room friendly form factor.
Simplicity (plug and play).
UI optimised for living room environment.

People don't solely buy consoles to play exclusives, just look at 3rd party sales figures.

Exactly. Why the hell would I stop buying consoles, beings that is what I prefer to play on? It is still going to be like a console for the reasons you mentioned, yet it is actually going to be pretty much a Windows PC, I get to keep all of my games from here on out and will be able to upgrade a bit sooner if I want. Sorry, I can't see how this is horrible at all.

 

[Helznicht]

it's pretty fucking genius. You'll basically be able to pursue mass market consumers with an affordable baseline, and attract power users who value high end graphics/performance as well as those who are willing to undergo refreshes every 1-2 years.

Every 2 years seems like the sweet spot to me:

So in 2019 you would have:
Xbox One - Low Tier
Xbox Two - Mid Tier (Release Xmas 2016)
Xbox Three - High Teir (Release Xmas 2018)

In 2020 when xbox four releases, I would see new games start to not support the Xbox One (due to the two-four userbase being large enough) , which is a nice console lifetime honestly. Keep it flowing every 2 years gets you a High, Med, Low option for customers.

 

[Sydle]

At the end of 2016, Xbox One will be 3 years on market.

Here's my bold prediction:

We're going to see an Xbox hardware refresh in time for the holidays. Let's say, October.
It will also support 4K Blu-rays.

Change the timeframe to fall/holiday 2017 and I agree.

Heh I think I've seen this somewhere before. Oh wait, I have:

There are multiple vendors trying to achieve it.

 

[outunderthestars]

Every 2 years seems like the sweet spot to me:

So in 2019 you would have:
Xbox One - Low Tier
Xbox Two - Mid Tier (Release Xmas 2016)
Xbox Three - High Teir (Release Xmas 2018)

In 2020 when xbox four releases, I would see new games start to not support the Xbox One (due to the two-four userbase being large enough) , which is a nice console lifetime honestly. Keep it flowing every 2 years gets you a High, Med, Low option for customers.

You are assuming an equal userbase with each revision, as well as all games needing the same amount of horsepower. I imagine a current XB1 will be able to run less intensive/ some indie games for a very long time to come.

Not sure how to feel about this. I understand the move since this will move Xbox into an ecosystem with multiple relevant platforms sooner but I can't help to think about what Sega went through during the '90s.

Currently feeling very mixed about this.

I don't see how the Sega comparison holds any water. An Xbox game will run on multiple hardware versions. The 32x, CD, game gear, and Genesis all ran different pieces of software.

 

[Bgamer90]

Not sure how to feel about this. I understand the move since this will move Xbox into an ecosystem with multiple relevant platforms sooner but I can't help to think about what Sega went through during the '90s.

Feeling very mixed about this.

 

[blodtann]

Stop comparing cell phones to consoles.

1.) iPhones are more expensive, but there are payment plans for them.

You could do the same for a console.

2.) mobile games/apps don't have 60-million-dollar budgets.

Yet they are able to develop the game for multiple hardware specs. It's not the 90ies anymore where you have to hand code for every hardware spec.

3.) Consoles don't sell as much as phones do. Phones serve a more important function in our lives.

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

 

[icespide]

Not sure how to feel about this. I understand the move since this will move Xbox into an ecosystem with multiple relevant platforms sooner but I can't help to think about what Sega went through during the '90s.

Currently feeling very mixed about this.

same here. It makes practical sense in my head and the console space needs new ideas but I can't help but feel bummed about it and I can't articulate why

 

[Graphics Horse]

Right, because Nintendo has proven itself to be super forward-thinking when it comes to tech and the console market, right?
.

Well that is kinda why they had perfect backwards compatibility with previous gens 2 gens running while Sony and MS have been spotty at best.

 

[impact]

Scalebound on PC!

Well that is kinda why they had perfect backwards compatibility with previous gens 2 gens running while Sony and MS have been spotty at best.

lol you know this isn't true. They had perfect BC because their consoles were all in the same ballpark power-wise for like three gens.

 

[Bessy67]

Well I guess Xbox one will be my last Xbox console then. I'll get a PC that I can upgrade instead of having to deal with yearly hardware revisions.

 

[Ol No Bones]

How would a new hardware revision suddenly make your current system obsolete?

Right now you are gaming on a PS4 with absolutely no promise of that library being forward compatible. Those PS3, PS2, and PS1 games you own? Fuck, can't play those on your current system.

At some point we have to break away from the generational model. This is the first step in that direction.



How much optimization is there to be had now that both consoles are basically low powered PC's. The days of the Cell processor taking years to figure out are over.

Yes. We used to get a new console every 5-8 years and have to start all over. If I can upgrade every few years and keep playing my games with better performance. I can't even think of a downside. Eventually older models will just kind of phase out when tech goes too far to justify support but that is still longer than a regular console cycle I suspect.

 

[Movalpolos]

Well I guess this could work for the hardcore Xbox fans but I don't see this appealing too much to the more casual crowd. Unless they do something like trade in your XB1 to get XB2 for $100. It has to be a pretty cheap upgrade if they do it annually, right?

 

[rokkerkory]

Every 2 years seems like the sweet spot to me:

So in 2019 you would have:
Xbox One - Low Tier
Xbox Two - Mid Tier (Release Xmas 2016)
Xbox Three - High Teir (Release Xmas 2018)

In 2020 when xbox four releases, I would see new games start to not support the Xbox One (due to the two-four userbase being large enough) , which is a nice console lifetime honestly. Keep it flowing every 2 years gets you a High, Med, Low option for customers.

That's too many different models to manage. I say 2 tops every 3 years.

 

[outunderthestars]

Well I guess this could work for the hardcore Xbox fans but I don't see this appealing too much to the more casual crowd. Unless they do something like trade in your XB1 to get XB2 for $100. It has to be a pretty cheap upgrade if they do it annually, right?

I cannot imagine a situation with annual hardware revisions outside of minor things like chip consolidation, HDD size increase etc.

 

[Ol No Bones]

Well I guess Xbox one will be my last Xbox console then. I'll get a PC that I can upgrade instead of having to deal with yearly hardware revisions.

Do this or skip the revisions you don't want... You phrase this like a negative lol. I went from the IPhone 5 to 6s and It wasn't a bother at all that Apple released other phones in that time period.