Gamergate convinced an anti-sex trafficking org to join crusade against NoA employee
- Thread starter chaobreaker
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Just check their reddit page..
Bjoern the Smexy
Member
That dude can't be serious, he's just trolling you.
If he is in any way serious, he should get locked up in an insane asylum.
For the topic at hand: I'm trying to stay out of this as much as I can.
I hate this whole Gamergate bullshit since it started.
What is it even about anymore?
At first I thought it was about the objectification of women in video games.
Then I thought it was about gaming journalism.
Now it's about pedophiles?
WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH VIDEO GAMES ANYMORE?!
I am fucking confused and I despise people who try to lock someone up and make their life a living hell (potentially reaching suicidal areas) just because "Someone on the internet has a different opinion about THING than I do, but I love THING, I would marry it if I could, so that particular person has to die, so I can have THING for me and myself alone".
Man, I hate humanity sometimes.
BRB, I have to look at cute pictures of kittens and puppies now.
The bigger thing is, she's asking for proof against when she doesn't have verifiable proof for. Which is really dumb. The thesis already proves that Alison isn't a pro-pedo right on the first page, but I doubt Ms. Walton cares that much and is mostly looking at random tweets with altered dates and timestamps that conflate some things together. Which those misleading images exist because of course they do.
Riposte
Member
(fixed link in quote)
Definitely some sketchy shit going down on 48-49. It's pretty clear she means the possession (but not creation) of "real" child pornography, as in with the participation of actual children. Softer versions of these arguments would be dismissed at face value in most circles, with many people assuming the worst - like if you wandered upon this on some internet blog or if someone posted it on GAF. I understand it's an academic paper, but she does present what she writes as her own beliefs ("I side with the camp..."), at least in 2011. While the US can be criticized for its treatment of children (concerning the death penalty, it turns out), I'm going to say most people wouldn't agree it has (had) a lot to "learn" from Japan, considering when the paper was written possession of child pornography (again, with actual children) was actually legal.
That said, I'm not trying to make any conclusions. Don't have the time to read this entire thing, so I won't rule out another excerpt making me look like a fool (and I'd love to see it). I find the posted "twitter summary" more than a little lackluster in light of some very quick skimming I did. I hope she explains herself in detail, as it's pretty obvious she isn't some insane promoter of child porn, but some of the stuff here is really questionable, enough where I don't understand how people so easily hand-wave it away. Generally against internet outrage (or ideological twitter wars) getting people fired, and if she was only referring to manga/anime, I'm sure I'd share some common ground with her free speech/possession ideals.
Since when do you need to go out and say you are a disgusting human being to seek help? As I wrote earlier they have that option to seek help. I even gave different options for them not willing to go to a psychologist.
You keep bringing up a mental illness as sexual orientation. We will never see eye to eye on this topic Yoshi. I honestly don't think there is anything in this world, or the fictive one that will make me budge on this.
Paedophiles that haven't acted on it, seek help.
Wanking to hentai? uh ok...do it at home and keep it there.
Paedophiles that have raped a child? Chemical castration, locked up in a mental ward or death by whatever means the law or they requires(forever in jail or euthanized)
But thanks for sharing, even though I have now dubbed you *that guy that I think is wrong* ^^
Yeah I know. I am from times to time a cynical bastard that assumes the worst of grown adults and truly believe we're fucking up the coming generations and I might go to much "think of the Children" shtick in The Simpsons. I know that. sigh.
As for helping or locking them up, you can get help while locked up...
I would love for everyone to get help. I truly do. I do not wish anyone harm that hasn't done anything. Especially the mentally ill but take a step outside that zone and harm one who can't defend themselves? Here I fully admit that I stop being rational. I can write it all down and lay out the options and truly believe in it and hope they get help but in the pit of my stomach it turns black. I can give everyone a second, a third hell even a fourth chance but there are some topics where one burn is enough. Lines in the sand so to speak.
As for this hypothetical person? Nope, they don't exist. As for Alison Rapp? I see no reason why she should lose her job, I downloaded the thesis and I'll look through it another time. Only thing Alison Rapp has done, that I know of, and I can whine about is that she makes me feel old. Seriously, I thought to myself aww what a cute girl....she's a woman not a little girl and I'm getting old...or she has the best damn skin care in the world ^^
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
To be fair, my tone was a bit harsh and I wasn't targeting you just speaking in general for this thread.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Pedophilia comes in different flavors, some are into teenagers, which, depending on the jurisdication you live under, does not rule out consent necessarily (in Germany, for instance, you can consent from the age of 14, even if this is a bit restricted and consentual sexual intercourse with a non-adult poses a serious legal threat should the opinion of the under-aged person change later; I would advise against it). My point was, that consent is not something that is a dimension of the sexual orientation, but something that connects to the act. Only the act can be consentual or not, the orientation has no person who could consent or not consent. Being a pedophile you just will not meet anyone who is going to (be able to) consent to sexual intercourse.
Oh he's legit. Read his profile. Misogynosit 101. There's a lot more tweets lol. He's got photos of Alison's tweets from days and months past and is showing them to me lol.
Sapphire Dreams
Member
Wait, do they even have any evidence that SHE was responsible for the" censorship" ?
None.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Of course not. The censorship issue is just a weapon they're using to try and get a woman fired from her job.
GAF excuse my ignorance but can someone give me quick run down of GG?
I avoided all the GG threads and news when it all got riled a couple years back (this started in 2014 right?) because it seemed like a massive shit storm and a couple of people I followed in the industry decided not to comment on it so I figured it wasn't worth looking into. However, GG is obviously something that hasn't gone away so I'd might as well finally find out what it is.
I avoided all the GG threads and news when it all got riled a couple years back (this started in 2014 right?) because it seemed like a massive shit storm and a couple of people I followed in the industry decided not to comment on it so I figured it wasn't worth looking into. However, GG is obviously something that hasn't gone away so I'd might as well finally find out what it is.
TheBryanJZX90
Member
Probably calculated on the part of the GG instigators. Make sure she has little to no chance to explain things away to her employer before they've had a chance to balloon into a big issue.
Now that's.. A true work of art
This kind of thing makes my blood boil. I honestly cannot begin to comprehend how anyone could feel this is OK.
...and it's somehow tied to a ridiculously stupid Fire Emblem localization changes. People are seriously fighting over that? If you simply have to have that stuff, which seems insane considering how dumb the concept is, import it and learn the damn language. Do something with yourself rather than dragging down others.
...and it's somehow tied to a ridiculously stupid Fire Emblem localization changes. People are seriously fighting over that? If you simply have to have that stuff, which seems insane considering how dumb the concept is, import it and learn the damn language. Do something with yourself rather than dragging down others.
Gamergate has never been about anything gaming journalism related, let alone about objectification of women in video games, they love that. They actually attack whoever wants to change that.
I think first it was ethics in game journalism, about journalists being too chummy with people they were supposed to be uncritical about (apparently) then misogyny entered the picture when people defended a (female) journalist for better or worse, then multiple sites said something like "gamers are all dumb misogynists, let's retire the term", then the internet tradition of blowing things up beyond bounds and turning things into a warzone started, then sides started being drawn everywhere and it became a hellstorm.
From the beginning, the only thing it really had to do with video games was that it targeted people who were involved in video games in some way. Any sort of ethical stands, whether against pedophilia or against bad journalism, ultimately were only conceived as a smokescreen to disguise the blatant malicious intent. Both to protect them from detractors, and to lure poorly informed and well-intentioned suckers to their defense. It's ultimately no different from how they jumped on the "gamers are dead" articles after the Gamergate hashtag was created in order to give themselves a cleaner origin story .
LincolnTunnel
Member
Oh yeah, you gave some great options.
My entire point is that by labeling them as "a disgusting human being", you're making them far less likely to seek help. Admitting you have a mental illness publicly should in no way cause you to be labeled or stigmatized in such a way. Doing so only further contributes to the increasing dehumanization of the mentally ill.
The legal system simply isn't capable of dealing with modern times, it seems. The internet remains outside of its grasp.
Fuck me, could you imagine that being true. People seriously have too much time on their hands, what is there to gain at the end of this. A poor women loses her job? Then what?
chaobreaker
Member
We had 2 huge GG general threads. Highly recommend skimming them to get a good idea.
First thread.
Second thread.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
It's Gamergate. Their evidence is she has a vagina.
Agreed. If it was a purely academic paper, it'd be an easier thing to accept but the use of "I side" and "I believe" (x2) shows that they're actual held beliefs by an author. From the earlier sections, as I was discussing earlier, she doesn't limit the view to manga/anime but says things like "mere possession" when discussing illicit child porn. It's actually an argument that I can understand from a free speech POV and maybe even side with. However, I cannot for the life of me imagine how Nintendo is gonna be ok with someone who wrote about the rolling back of child porn laws being one of the faces of their company.
fabricated backlash
Member
How are these criminals still allowed to run amok?
How is it that these fucks can just get away time and time again.
If Nintendo fires her over these cunts there will be protest.
How is it that these fucks can just get away time and time again.
If Nintendo fires her over these cunts there will be protest.
Wow, this isn't even a legitimate movement or initiative. It sounds like some 4chan shit to be honest.
Thanks I'll take a look into these.
Remind me not to ever try and have a reasonable argument with you
Sapphire Dreams
Member
It's movement that started with a so-called "scandal" with Zoe Quinn sleeping with people to promote her game. Not everything related to that "scandal" is true, but people took and used it as a platform to spew hate on her, women and feminism. Of course, not all people in the GG movement are terrible people who hate women, some genuinely care about journalism in gaming. But you really cannot control something like GamerGate, even if your intentions are good. You can fight for journalistic ethics and not be part of GG.
My favorite part of GG's involvement in getting her fired is that her very thesis has what I think is GG's motto:
"Censoring media, however questionable, does not solve societal ills."
The idiots at GG are so hell bent of harassing non-journalist women in gaming that they'll shoot down one of the few with views in line with their own.
A hate group. They will try to dig up dirt on a person they don't like and misconstrue it to their agenda to try to get someone fired and they also send relentless waves after waves of hate filled tweets minute by minute 24/7. They have moderate GGers like Milo of Brietbart who falsifies a lot of things in his articles and has his audience mob and attack people too. Ralph Retort is another and has their own history of harassment, once even screencapped a post of mine on GAF when I called out Milo and how wanted him fired as a journalist. So I got famous for 15 minutes, but those 15 minutes are nothing compared to what a woman or minority faces daily from GG.
The entire movement started about a woman and her sex life and the harassment of her. Anything GG have ever said about the origins or anything related to Zoe Quinn or Anita have been debunked thoroughly because they all lie and play dumb or if they ask for proof and when proof is given they ignore it.
TL
R they're a hate group that want to ruin people's lives.Have you tried reading through this thread and following the links made by gaffers?
LincolnTunnel
Member
How is this true at all? The whole point of a thesis is to argue in favor of a point, regardless of you belief in that point on a personal level. If your assignment is to argue in favor of a particular topic, or even if you're making a Devil's Advocate argument on your own, you still phrase the paper as if you, the author sides with or believes in the argument you're presenting.
fabricated backlash
Member
If they have any brains in them at all, unlike these idiots, they'll treat this as what it is: An academic exercise in arguing a point by backing it up with evidence and rethoric. No matter how extreme, this is what an academic paper is about. No matter how much people want to get hung up on "unscientific" wording to desperately spin this into a controversy.
The agenda here is so clear that it's actually embarassing. The fake concern thrown around is disgusting, when it's clear as day what the end goal is:
To destroy this womans career by being creepy fucking stalkers, who aren't worth the air they breath in, unable to see the unspeakable irony of taking the moral high ground when they're nothing but amoral asocial bigots, who are only capable of self indulging narcisissm and hatred towards anything they can't fit into their self serving world view.
I'm sure that someone can drop a link, but the basics of the group's beginning are these:
- Zoe Quinn has a breakup with her boyfriend (I can never remember his name).
- Said boyfriend then takes to the Internet and writes a post accusing her of cheating on him with a game journalist and others.
- Said boyfriend then helps whip people into harassing Quinn for supposed corruption. Notably, they don't attack the journalist, and they journalist didn't actually write anything to boost Quinn.
- Adam Baldwin (the actor who played Jayne on Firefly) and other radical right-wing people jump in, injecting their politics into the group. Gamergate begins using radical right-wing language like "cultural marxism".
- Adam Baldwin creates the "Gamergate" name to replace the "Quinnspiracy" name in order to prevent the group from being seen as a harassment group.
- A few journalists write articles about how the gaming media's perception of gamers, young white males, is outdated. These are the "gamers are dead" articles, and Gamergate uses them to change their origin story and claim that there's an attack on gaming.
- Said boyfriend then takes to the Internet and writes a post accusing her of cheating on him with a game journalist and others.
- Said boyfriend then helps whip people into harassing Quinn for supposed corruption. Notably, they don't attack the journalist, and they journalist didn't actually write anything to boost Quinn.
- Adam Baldwin (the actor who played Jayne on Firefly) and other radical right-wing people jump in, injecting their politics into the group. Gamergate begins using radical right-wing language like "cultural marxism".
- Adam Baldwin creates the "Gamergate" name to replace the "Quinnspiracy" name in order to prevent the group from being seen as a harassment group.
- A few journalists write articles about how the gaming media's perception of gamers, young white males, is outdated. These are the "gamers are dead" articles, and Gamergate uses them to change their origin story and claim that there's an attack on gaming.
That's the start of it, but it's obviously not the end. They've tried to attack advertisers, tried actively cause corruption in the industry (e.g. getting Nintendo to distance themselves from reviewers who criticized the sexuality in Bayonetta), harassed women and transgender people in coordinated movements, spread materials on how to protect the group from blame, etc.
Also, one of their mascot characters is explicitly a blonde-haired blue-eyed Nazi, and they love to post images of anti-Semitic cartoons redesigned to be Anita Sarkeesian and things like that. Probably kind of minor in the grand scheme of things, but shows how their internal communication is a lot more honest than the external.
Bjoern the Smexy
Member
I also read a bit about what Alisson Rapp is accused of and this huge fallout of fuck is borderline retarded.
She stands for laxer porn laws and a younger age of concent.Iirc the age of concent in the US is 18/21, depending on the state, right?
It's 16 in most of the US. There are also laws which make it more lenient for underage people of similar ages. [...] 18 is the highest is gets in America. (Partially quoted from L Thammy's post below, thanks for that.)
Do you know what the age of concent is in Germany? 14. FOURTEEN! And we have no problem with that. (It's even lower in other countries in Europe, but I think the average might be around 14-15)
Boy aged 14 wanna sex a girl that's 14 and she wants to sex him to? No problem! Just don't try to film your success and put it on the internet, because THAT is child pornography.
Artistic renditions and depictions of children regardless of age (yes, even photographs)? Okay in a PURELY ARTISTIC WAY! Everything else is forbidden by law and is, once again, treated as child pornography.
Famous German rock band Scorpions had trouble once with one of their albums called "Virgin Killer", which depicted a 10 year old girl, naked, with a cracked glass effect pasted over her vagina. Basically you couldn't see anything "important".
People TOTALLY misunderstood the meaning behind this picture and cover because they took it out of context. Actually listiening to the album would've explained the meaning behind the cover image and the album's name.
The album itself was sold wrapped in black sleeves in most countries (some countries replaced the cover with a photo of the band).
It's a prime example of how art can be misunderstood in the worst way.
It went so far that the band is distancing themselves from that cover nowadays.
But just go on Wikipedia and judge for youself (English Wikipedia shows both cover variations, while the German Wikipedia, for some reason, doesn't show any of the covers). Also I wrote this from memory, so maybe one or two things in this paragraph might be a bit wrong.
But what I'm trying to say here is:
Rapp sure as hell isn't promoting child pornography. She's most probably (to my understanding) working for more relaxed laws regarding nudity of any age, which is totally okay, because nudity itself isn't sexually explicit. I know that nudity is a far bigger problem in the US than it is in most parts of Europe and to me it seems she is fighting for equality in her home land in that regard.
This is all I will be writing in this thread. EDIT: I lied, I wrote more. Whatever.
TL;DR: Read the damn post.
She stands for laxer porn laws and a younger age of concent.
It's 16 in most of the US. There are also laws which make it more lenient for underage people of similar ages. [...] 18 is the highest is gets in America. (Partially quoted from L Thammy's post below, thanks for that.)
Do you know what the age of concent is in Germany? 14. FOURTEEN! And we have no problem with that. (It's even lower in other countries in Europe, but I think the average might be around 14-15)
Boy aged 14 wanna sex a girl that's 14 and she wants to sex him to? No problem! Just don't try to film your success and put it on the internet, because THAT is child pornography.
Artistic renditions and depictions of children regardless of age (yes, even photographs)? Okay in a PURELY ARTISTIC WAY! Everything else is forbidden by law and is, once again, treated as child pornography.
Famous German rock band Scorpions had trouble once with one of their albums called "Virgin Killer", which depicted a 10 year old girl, naked, with a cracked glass effect pasted over her vagina. Basically you couldn't see anything "important".
People TOTALLY misunderstood the meaning behind this picture and cover because they took it out of context. Actually listiening to the album would've explained the meaning behind the cover image and the album's name.
The album itself was sold wrapped in black sleeves in most countries (some countries replaced the cover with a photo of the band).
It's a prime example of how art can be misunderstood in the worst way.
It went so far that the band is distancing themselves from that cover nowadays.
But just go on Wikipedia and judge for youself (English Wikipedia shows both cover variations, while the German Wikipedia, for some reason, doesn't show any of the covers). Also I wrote this from memory, so maybe one or two things in this paragraph might be a bit wrong.
But what I'm trying to say here is:
Rapp sure as hell isn't promoting child pornography. She's most probably (to my understanding) working for more relaxed laws regarding nudity of any age, which is totally okay, because nudity itself isn't sexually explicit. I know that nudity is a far bigger problem in the US than it is in most parts of Europe and to me it seems she is fighting for equality in her home land in that regard.
TL;DR: Read the damn post.
And now the GAF pedophile thread arc is complete once again, soon all nuance will have left the thread for greener pastures.
For what it's worth I agree, and last time I checked reality backed me up. Though hard stats are pretty lacking, again due to the stigma
It was more accurately you don't have to pander to "gamers" (as in the stereotypical gamer) any more. The great thing about those articles is that if you assume that people that got made about them comprehended them properly they serve as a good litmus test.
OrbitalBeard
Member
It's days like these where, for a brief moment, I feel that the internet was a mistake.
It's actually 16 in most of the US. There are also laws which make it more lenient for underage people of similar ages. But it's 18 in California, and Hollywood is in California, so it messes with people's perceptions. 18 is the highest is gets in America.
I don't know if you'd legally be able to make pornography with a 16 year old anywhere in America, but you certainly couldn't sell it everywhere in the country, so I think the maximum age is the practical limit.
Isn't the first step to seeking help admiting to yourself that you are sick? In this case I see nothing not disgusting about paedophiles. Seek help or do something else that will remove yourself from a position where you might act upon it.
Don't ever have an *reasonable* argument with me about paedophilia.
Bjoern the Smexy
Member
Then I'm probably confusing that with being able to drink alcohol at whatever age, thanks for the heads up.
Sapphire Dreams
Member
Actually, the age of consent in the USA is 16 in most states, and 18 in some. No state has the age of consent being 21.
Having read her thesis I can say it's perfectly rational within the context of academics and under no interpretation is pro child pornography. However I can see Nintendo deciding it's in their best interest to distance themselves from those views.
The argument that criminalization of possession of child pornography has no positive impact on the prevalence of child abuse, however correct or rational or logical or supported by studies it may be, isn't going to be the hill Nintendo will want to die on.
I've never found that to be the case. It's simply not true. A thesis not a mock debate or class.
The argument that criminalization of possession of child pornography has no positive impact on the prevalence of child abuse, however correct or rational or logical or supported by studies it may be, isn't going to be the hill Nintendo will want to die on.
I've never found that to be the case. It's simply not true. A thesis not a mock debate or class.
TheBryanJZX90
Member
No, I don't really agree with this. It's entirely possible, and often more appropriate, to argue a position without referring to yourself or your personally held beliefs.
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