Ryouji Gunblade
Member
This is filled with overreaction. Meanwhile Trump's claims are supported.
Bernie Sanders clarifies his statement about ghettos
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AlimNassor
Banned
He's right that white people have no idea what real poverty is. White ppl aren't being shot by cops, white ppl aren't being denied jobs, white ppl have power. White issues are nothing compared to what minorities experience.
He seemed to acknowledge that when he brought up the black congressman facing discrimination when trying to catch a cab.
I'd be nice to actually hear what your problem is instead of your snide remarks. I'm honestly interested.
entremet
Member
legacyzero
Banned
Thank you.
And yeah, some folks are reaching to find bad in this for God knows why, when they know damn good and well what he means.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I meant in general, not just in this thread. I don't automatically assume all Sanders supporters are white; all things considered I'd prefer Sanders over Clinton.
I don't have any issue with Sanders saying many white people don't know what it's like to be poor or live in poor neighborhoods but I also have no problem recognizing how badly it comes off and how it's indicative of broader problems he has addressing race separate from income inequality in a way that satisfies many black voters.
And it is not obvious what he meant by that?
He meant that the majority of white people were not living in shitty racially segregated neighborhoods, which is what ghetto means. It comes from the old Jewish ghetto's
Now that's some cold war grade spinning of things.
I did. My thought once again is that he needs to drop out before he continues to damage what little good his candidacy has done, before he says more comments like this. Now maybe you can actually choose to respond on topic, or go on another infantile tangent.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Yea, I thought that comment during the debate was very poorly worded by Bernie Sanders. Of course white people know what it's like to live in ghettos. The idea that they don't is ridiculous and would only lead to unintentionally offending people he doesn't mean to offend. I'm sure he knows that it isn't only black people that know what it's like to live in a ghetto.
And, no, I don't for a second believe Bernie meant any offense. He just worded it poorly.
And, no, I don't for a second believe Bernie meant any offense. He just worded it poorly.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Who are you?
You will be hearing from my legal team
Gotdatmoney
Member
I think it's fairly obvious he is talking about the idea that white people are generally far better off even in lower income brackets than black people. And that there is a prevalence of black people who grow up around and see poor living condition even if they aren't necessarily poor. I think anyone watching this should be able to grasp he doesn't mean no poor white people exist. Like come on.
And in turns of African Americans turn their communities into ghettos I have no idea how anyone comes to that conclusion. Like he didnt even kinda of link them together. Like actually. I criticize Bernie all the time for this shit but in a discussion of intellectual talking points how could anyone honestly read these conclusions?
And like people here are saying, a ghetto is not just a poor income area. Its a place where minority groups are essentially herded into and they destroy the mobility of the people.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Holocaust card? Really?
Pretty clear they were talking about Bernie having his black surrogates/staffers help him on the answer.
Also, real talk, reminding people about Bernie's jewishness would probably only hurt him. Still a lot of antisemites out there, even if they've been driven much further underground than conventional racists.
There was no interview. It was a debate, and even in context it's not great.
King Tubby
Member
The thing that gets me is that if Obama had said the exact same quote (probably more eloquently, but still), the reaction would be almost completely reversed. Liberals would be singing his praises for talking about the reality of racial inequality in America while FOX News and Breitbart would be tearing him apart for being so "divisive", "race-baiting", etc.
They, by definition, cannot know.
Ghetto means area occupied by minorities. Whites are not a minority.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
A ghetto isn't the same thing as a poor area.
Ya think? Imagining the scenario, I think he'd get slammed pretty hard too.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Not really. A poor neighborhood =/= a ghetto. Of course there can be white people who live in ghettos, but they're primarily minority occupied, by definition
I'd recommend everybody to read David Harvey for a little urban sociology.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1781680744/?tag=neogaf0e-20
I'm sorry I asked I guess because clearly you have nothing to say.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1781680744/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Just some random guy who has been actively posting in this thread who is super confused about the issue partly because I'm not an American.
I'm sorry I asked I guess because clearly you have nothing to say.
Came in to say this! I'm sure they'll bring up the super predator comment from Hilary, the insane conspiracy theory that the establishment is out to get him, or that hes right in that ghetto = black communities.
Im this close to unsubbing them but I want to see their collective dread when Hilary get the nom and how they will begin using right wing talking points to discredit her further.
What right-wing talking points? They've criticized Republicans for the same things they criticize Clinton for. Democrats have always talked about how the Republicans are influenced by big-monied interests, yet if you point out that Democrats are too, suddenly it's a right-wing talking point?
Well I don't recall Obama being criticized for his stances on race and racism so you got a point there.
lol this is so silly.
Chie Satonaka
Member
We can't really play this hypothetical. As you said, if the President would have said something, it would have been similar and would have made the point without it sounding so dodgy. I can't blame people for going side-eyed at the comment. I did, until I read it within it's full context. But running around talking about "the ghetto" probably isn't going to do you a lot of favors when you're already struggling with the minority demographic, no matter what the intent of the statement is.
That said, this is being blown completely out of proportion.
Exactly.
Like I said, you still haven't made one comment on his actual statement or the topic he was addressing.
You are just repeating you "want him to drop out" before he damages the "little good his candidacy has done." Textbook definition of evasion, even after being called out twice and asking to hear your thoughts on the matter.
Do you actually have no position on his comments?
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I mean
If you both lack the experience of living in the US and refuse to actually read all of what I've posted, I'm not really going to take you seriously.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Killer Mike and BS. Fuckboys think about it..
The main problem is he is tone deaf ,his campaign staff is useless, and he clearly can't solve these problems. His public record is great but this is not a guy you want running for the general election. If someone with his history and public record can't even respond to a comment like this without making things worst then he is not ready for prime time.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Interview as in, question-and-then-answer, really. But still, reading the full text, what exactly is the problem? Can you explain? He's pointing out racial inequalities and his own white privilege.
UnemployedVillain
Member
This is the first time I've seen white privilege brought up and black people are the ones getting mad. This shit is crazy
We argue about these words rather than why they exist in the first place.
Fact is people rather fan faux outrage than do the necessary soul and historical fact searching to combat our realities. If we did we wouldn't be upset at a single man but instead we'd only be able to point the finger inwards towards ourselves. For simultaneously contributing and ignoring an entire system that allows these things to exist in the first place.
Fact is people rather fan faux outrage than do the necessary soul and historical fact searching to combat our realities. If we did we wouldn't be upset at a single man but instead we'd only be able to point the finger inwards towards ourselves. For simultaneously contributing and ignoring an entire system that allows these things to exist in the first place.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
They're also rich..and white. 😕
Quick question that isn't meant to derail at all. When you ask that question, are you responding to the OT, or are you responding to the answers already in the thread? I ask because many people have echoed this same thought, and I'm sure that more people would be inclined to communicate their issue if they weren't certain that you had already read the concerns and explanation, and have brushed them off as insubstantial.
King Tubby
Member
I think Bernie's Jewishness and the "holocaust card" are pretty relevant when it comes to a statement about ghettos.
He would, but mostly not by the people slamming Bernie right now, I would say.
I mean, in the hypothetical it would also be a racial minority talking about the issues that his own community faces rather than an outsider, so I do acknowledge a fairly significant difference there - but it's abundantly clear that Bernie wasn't posing a criticism of minorities but rather the greater society that oppresses them. Most people who are taking issue seem to be doing so because they are connecting it to other narratives or talking points (mostly proposed by other people) that turn the statement into something that it is not.
I don't get how people can take issues with this unless they're the kind of person that pretends racism doesn't exist or thinks that white people are discriminated against as much as black people (to be fair, that's unfortunately like half the country...).
Reactions to this do seem pretty irrational. His use of the word "ghetto" is certainly justified by the literal definition of the word, and no where does he even imply that ALL blacks live in them. As far as "whites don't know what it's like to be poor" statement, it is a bit clumsily stated, but if you just consider that the candidate who said it is the same one whose main running points are all about how the top 1% fuck over all of the working middle-class, then I don't see any real issue. I really don't get how much effort people are putting into this to make it seem like a huge deal.
Bernie Sanders existence as a more left-leaning person than Hillary Clinton that attracted white male progressive support on the Internet, thus coopting the liberal high ground, has driven some folks on this message board who believe the high ground is theirs absolutely crazy.
In an effort to reclaim the high ground and reassert themselves atop the liberal pecking order, they must be shown to be flawed. Racism is a good flaw to claim.
It's ridiculous that that's what discourse here has been reduced to.
AlimNassor
Banned
Fox news and the right crucify him anytime he talks about race.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Well, two things.
Firstly, he frames those racial inequalities entirely in the framework of economic inequalities, which is a recurring failing of his. You can read out from his comments to assume the other stuff (that the reason why black people experience a different level of poverty than white people is because of systematic racial discrimination), but it's not what he said and it feeds into the other times he didn't say it, which makes it feel like the times he does say it he doesn't really mean it, because otherwise he'd say it without being badgered and prompted.
Secondly, and largely unrelated to the general scope of the critiques in this thread, he doesn't talk about his white privilege. He's saying "you" a lot, owning up to white privilege in general but distancing himself from it personally.
I'm not black tho, so there's probably a lot I'm missing, but that's what I picked up on at any rate.
Believe me, I know that Jews were the original ghetto dwellers (my mom never lets me forget), but he didn't say anything to that effect and in fact moved in the opposite direction. I was mostly pointing out that it a) had nothing to do with the topic at hand, b) would probably backfire.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
There were two separate statements initially; the one about white people not knowing what it's like to be poor, and the one about ghettoes traditionally being black communities. Later, the full answer was brought up, so you basically have people reacting to one of four possible answers
Yup. See the use of the term "Berniebro".
I can certainly agree with what somebody said about optics, and that it might be myopic of him to continually reduce the issue of racism to income inequality (although to be fair, he does that with everything). Then you have people like Amir0x who put scare quotes around the word "mistakes" and you start to wonder!
theignoramus
Member
Its the Republican way of spinning things. FoxNews talking heads are always ranting about "corrosive black culture" and "single parent homes" and "morally bankrupt hip hop music" keeping the black man down. Theyre extremely comfortable bringing up race when they want to assign fault, blame or failure to African Americans, but when they cant blame a minority for something or (gasp) have to give credit to minority figureheads, they hate racial identifiers and trot out pithy remarks like "why cant we all just be Americans?"
Nice summary.
I'm a sociology graduate so I was interested in why a black person would be offended about his remarks when they're pretty accurate in which most scholars describe urban segregation.
And I read your posts and it was pretty clear that you were black since your first post in the thread, but at the same time never actually elaborated why what he said could be constructed as something harmful to the black communities but you were obviously outraged by it. So I thought you might have an interesting insight to provide but it's clear you're just a moron really.
Right, but his outsider perspective is perfectly justifiable as he himself is describing that is his one flaw approaching the subject and does it by offering a testimony of a black woman berating him because despite any good intentions he still has no fucking idea what it really is like to live in constant oppression. So it was a pretty wonderful answer really.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
MetalGearZed
Member
damn, Bern Your Enthusiasm is real.
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