I have to agree with this on some level. While they have similar views, to an extent, one wants to push things far further to the left than the other.
Hillary:"Where was Bernie when I got healthcare in 93?" Right there, she thanked him
- Thread starter nynt9
- Start date
- Status
I have to agree with this on some level. While they have similar views, to an extent, one wants to push things far further to the left than the other.
CrocMother
Banned
Voting the same doesn't equal having the same policy goals
metalslimer
Member
And you haven't been paying attention if you don't think Bernie hasn't been mudslingijg as well including him calling out the Clinton campaign for fraud yesterday. Hell this stupid response was because of an attack Bernie has been using.
It's amazing some people think Bernie has been running this above it all campaign. I'm not saying he's wrong for doing it either as it had been effective in some areas
JoshuaJSlone
Member
I can totally see it being meant this way, but it still seems like a silly point. "Why does my opponent keep complaining about my 2016 positions, rather than admiring my 1993 positions?"
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
For every little thing you can find they disagree on, there's five things they agree on.
I'd call my "little things", foreign policy (I don't want a hawkish president), the economy (Bernie has shown he cares far more about income inequality, which has done nothing but create a working poor class of millions and Republicans and Democrats both had a hand in creating this), and LGBT rights (particularly trans rights but LGBT as a whole) pretty big things. They're most of my main issues and Hillary falls flat with every one of them for me. I will still vote for her if I absolutely have to but I am not optimistic that she'll work well on those fronts.
That's another very very acceptable reason to prefer Bernie to Hilary.
metalslimer
Member
In what respect does Hilary and Bernie disagree on LGBT rights as a whole? This isn't to say Bernie is worse at all but I don't see any huge disagreements.
Robot Pants
Member
Hilary falling apart. If Sanders overtakes her and gets the nomination it's gonna be amazing.
metalslimer
Member
Falling apart with a lead double that of Obamas and poised to increase the delegate count on Tuesday?
"Income inequality" is not an issue in itself, but a range of issues. The only area here where I see Hillary and Bernie with a major difference is raising the minimum wage. Bernie wants to raise federal minimum wage to $15, while Hillary wants to raise it to $12 with support for states that can economically support raising it even higher (like California, New York, New Jersey, etc)
Robot Pants
Member
I'm frankly repeating myself at this point but I trust Bernie far more on the matter given how:
1- While both have had their issues with LGBT matters, he was far far quicker on the uptake to support legislation that helped LGBT individuals. Even when he was voting for 'traditional' marriage back in like 83'/'82 he still advocated for gay expression. That combined with his impassioned arguments for lgbt individuals during the mid 90s on the Senate floor regarding DADT and many other matters, to be frank, leads me to be far happier with his history on LGBT rights.
2- Bernie has actually acknowledged my existence as a transwoman even all the way back in the 80s. He was one of the few politicians to acknowledge that the T existed. Hillary literally couldn't even acknowledge my existence late last year. And even in the 08' debates Obama showed he gave a rats ass about discussing trans plights. Hillary in the same debates would only refer to LGBT as gay/sexuality rights only.
Trans-individuals have been pushed under the bus for way too fucking long. Our suffering was silenced during the AIDS epidemic, the LGBT movement itself that was started by transwomen of color was co-opted decades back and we were shoved to the rear when it was originally meant to be a movement about everyone, and now frankly some want to just stop at same-sex marriage because they don't want to at all help us with our rights. They want to be seen as "normal" now and don't want to risk that normal status.
I'm not going to abide for status-quo and Hillary's consistent reference to LGBT as gay rights or sexuality rights tells me she lacks all kinds of knowledge on LGBT history. It also tells me that she doesn't care about me or that she will actually fight for me. Hillary only seems to come around when it's popular for her to be able to say she supports something and it's certainly still not popular to support trans-individuals. That's slowly changing but....I still don't get the feeling she's going to come around.
In contrast, Bernie feels far more genuine on these issues as he at least supported our rights in some fashion when it was unpopular for anyone to do so.
I'm aware of what income inequality is, thank you very much.
Vincent Alexander
Member
This is 2 days in a row with someone saying something is "embarrassing" that is very far from the fact. I think this is our new hot word in political threads.
But you can't point to any legislation that solidifies their perceived differences?
metalslimer
Member
Fair enough do you have some links to Bernie comments on the trans community this election?
Psychoward
Banned
Jesus christ you can't be this dense.
I literally referenced their differences in terms of Bernie supporting legislation (such as what went down with DADT) and pushing for gay expression (such as what he did as mayor in Burlington in the early 80s) way before Hillary did. Are you serious with this noise? I have more than enough reason to not trust Hillary on LGBT matters.
It's fair to say "Bernie was for it first", I get that, even if it's not my position. But when it comes to the legislation, that's not really a difference.
eyeball_kid
Member
Not sure if anyone ever answered you, but it appears Bernie was indeed a cosponsor on Hillary's 1993 healthcare bill. I haven't been able to find info about what committees (if any) he served on in 1993. I doubt he had the juice at that point in his career to craft any part of it himself, but I'm not positive of that.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Seriously, the only real Gaffe from Hillary in recent weeks is the Reagan revisionist history.
And it's questionable if it was any worse than the "White people don't know what it's like to be poor" comments from Sanders at the debate considering the recent history of Hillary and gay rights, just look through her emails during her time as SOS.
I'd say Sanders twitter calling fraud with no evidence pretty bad. I don't even think it got a thread in the OT.
CrunchyFrog
Member
Not a chance, she knew damn well she was playing the school of Trump philosophy of verbal diarrhea.
Also holy shit at your email tag in quotes hah
....But it literally is a difference. Hillary supported legislation that harmed LGBT americans. Bernie opposed that same legislation. You're going to do anything to mock me, aren't you? >_> Can't at all admit the "Queen" could be viewed this way for any damn reason.
It didn't.
Bernie's campaign literally just tried to steal delegates in Iowa and then claimed fraud on Twitter when Hilary's supporters demanded a recount.
Oh no. Hold the phone.
I have disagreed with you. But I have never mocked you. And now I will stop responding to you, because you don't seem to want to post in good faith.
This for starters.
The 80s thing I'm talking about.
He's also advocated for Transmen and women in the military on a Reddit AMA.
There's other examples as well but it goes on for a bit.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
How long are you going to continue to misrepresent history when you have been schooled on the issue multiple times?
You're the one actively denying a blatant fact regarding how Bernie and Hillary have differed on actual legislation. How can that NOT be read as mocking? Especially when I describe in personal detail where I come from on this matter. It reads as you dismissing the facts I bring up and why I come at this from the way I do.
I'm not misrepresenting history. I'm stating a fact of the matter. Bernie supported LGBT americans while Hillary was still opposing them. That's an outright fact. It's known Hillary supported DADT. It's known Bernie gave an impassioned speech against it at the exact same time. It's known Bernie pushed for LGBT pride in the 80s. I have not lied about anything.
Psychoward
Banned
What are they wrong about exactly?
metalslimer
Member
I don't think the Clinton revisionist history of trying to say they were trying to prevent a constitutional amendment is any worse than Bernie saying it should be a states issue. Had some bill come along that legalized marriage nationwide both would have been opposed. Hilary has not been aggressive on trans right at all but let's not misrepresent history
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I already spoke, literally in my explanation to you, on how he wasn't a saint either. I am aware of the facts here. But unlike Hillary he actually gave a fucking rats ass to support the LGBT community in various manners when it was unpopular to do so. Hillary never did til really damn recently.
And LGBT is about more than same-sex marriage. That's a factor and an important one but it's not the only issue affecting anyone within the LGBT spectrum.
Are you fucking serious right now? I already responded to that mess of a post. Ivysaur was purposefully ignoring facts regarding Bernie's positions and what he did for the LGBT community in various ways and I addressed that already. And it doesn't change the fact that you are literally claiming I lied about the facts regarding DADT here. I haven't lied about a damn thing regarding their records. If you are unaware of history, it takes literally two seconds of research to see the facts regarding their positions on DADT. Just, really, Hillary Gaf?
So much this. Here in Ohio Hillary put out an ad. She literally says that there is institutionalized racism in the judicial system. Bernie has been one note for so long that I think it might be too late for him to diversify his talking points in time to appeal to minorities before primary season is over.
elrechazado
Banned
Or the one who keeps getting caught lying should maybe be embarrassed....
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Keeps getting caught huh? That's cute.
She fucked up with the Aids comments and Regean, but I've not seen any outright lies recently.
Perhaps sanders should quit saying he is running a clean campaign when he is not. That's a lie. Perhaps he should not claim Fraud in the Iowa caucuses when there is none. That's a lie too. Perhaps he should understand that white people can be poor. That's a lie also.
metalslimer
Member
Right and Hilary worked in the state department to expand a multitude of rights of lgbt employees which was honestly something that wasnt pushed on her. To try and pretend like she is only pandering now to the community is misrepresenting history. Look I'm not saying that on the whole Of their careers Bernie sanders hasn't been better or that you shouldn't feel more comfortable with him
Frankly, I will believe she gives a rat's ass about my existence when she's not in Obama's administration and does something.
Okay. Sorry, I'm just very annoyed by Hillary supporters denying facts and actual legislation and essentially mocking me by doing so.
Her claiming he was against the auto bailout was pretty close to an outright lie. I'm leaning close to just voting for the local stuff this election season.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
See, you moved the goalposts again. Now she only cares since she is in the Obama administration? Hillarious
It's just incredibly frustrating that Sanders supporters have this image of him as being always truthful when he is not. He is more a regular politician than any of them seem to think. Which is not surprising since he has been a politician for decades.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
Hillary sure is resembling my abuela more and more in that she can't remeber shit and makes up stuff about people she doesnt like.
I haven't moved any goalposts. I have consistently stated that she only did a damn thing cause Obama was the one who gave a rat's ass for it. It was his administration. I won't believe she's actually for it til, if she's president, she actually works for us.
What is hilarious is you are denying the facts of history, just as royalan has, regarding DADT. Anything to insult anyone who has criticism for the "Queen", right? >_>
NeOak
Member
I meant this specific case, but ok buddy.
And no, I know both are throwing shit. But in THIS case, there is proof that made that comment go viral.
Also, it is spelled "mudslinging".
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Ageism attacks? Really?
It's incredibly frustrating that a few Hillary supporters continue to exploit and mock minorities while not giving a shit about their voice.
And frankly speaking, it was a lie by Hillary that he was against the auto-bailout. Facts show he actually supported quite a bit of legislation that supported auto-bailouts. What he didn't support, which is what Hillary is ACTUALLY referring to, is a Wall-Street bailout.
metalslimer
Member
Really...a typo...
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Holy shit man. It's no wonder Sanders has no minority support with posts like that.
\/
Eh... just be careful with using age as an attack or criticism this election.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
#notallabuelas #justmine
Eh, it's a bit hamfisted, but Hillary Clinton did not lie there:
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/03/did-bernie-sanders-oppose-auto-rescue
Basically: There was an earlier standalone bill to bail out the auto industry, both Hillary and Bernie supported it (*gasp*) but it was killed by Republicans. Later, there was another bill that included the auto-industry bailout. Hillary voted for it, as did a lot of democrats. Bernie voted no, because this bill included the wall street bailout.
So Bernie can cry all he wants about how that same bill supported Wall Street, but that doesn't make Hillary's claim any less true. It's especially damning because the money for the auto industry was THE reason many democrats supported that bill. And not the Wall Street money. The auto industry needed that help, and all signs point to things being a hell of a lot worse today if they didn't get it.
- Status