Bernie's stance on guns does nothing to help you because it does nothing to address this. The guns in Puerto Rico are being smuggled in from Florida, in Chicago they come from Indiana. Unless the whole country has the same rules this will just keep happening.
2 Super 2 Tuesday |OT| I'm Really Feeling (The Bern) (3/15, 3/22, 3/26 Contests)
- Thread starter ivysaur12
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Bernie's stance on guns does nothing to help you because it does nothing to address this. The guns in Puerto Rico are being smuggled in from Florida, in Chicago they come from Indiana. Unless the whole country has the same rules this will just keep happening.
Tesseract
Banned
1v1 Street fighter 5 right now, best of 1000
PolarBearsClub
Member
I agree with everything you said. I'm just saying that right now literally minutes after the last results have come in, if there's some heavy goading it's probably just cuz people are happy that Hillary won. And like you said, no one here is mocking the morality of any of Sanders' policies. He has good opinions. I just don't think he'd be that great or as good of a president as Hillary.
I'm glad some Dems crossed over!
Like I said before: this is only directed at anyone who is looking to guilt trip someone for not supporting Hillary (or blame for a Trump victory)
BotoxAgent
Member
Well said
I would trust Hillary over someone like Bernie, whose foreign policy expertise is summed up in the Iraq Vote and nothing else.
And who didnt even get Foreign Policy Advisors until after the SC primary.
Lets not talk about his ISIS plan involving Iran and Saudi Arabia.
plagiarize
Banned
I'm probably being an idiot to question the logic of this... but how is pointing out that Obama lost some states and still won when he had a 100 point lead, a counter to pointing out that Clinton has a lead that's three times bigger?
If Obama could lose all those states, Clinton sure as shit can.
What a muppet.
Well hes wrong on guns TO YOU, hes wrong on healthcare TO YOU, hes wrong on trade TO YOU. It does not mean hes wrong. Anyone can say the same for Bernie supporters. Lets not believe your way of thinking is the correct way.
Ehh...listen I think Hilary is going to win, not only the nomm but whatever Republican she goes against, and americans will get their first female leader, but I wouldn't go around saying shes really a liberal. Shes a centrist with some slight left leanings at best. Anything further left than that, naw man. Her stances in most other parts of the western world are centrist with maybe some slight right leanings, but that's mostly cause the USA is like that.
Okay, fair. You were flip and dismissive, so I was in return, and perhaps that wasn't fair and so I apologize. Now that we're engaging with substance, I'll say this: Bernie has no practical chance of winning. I can understand why some people see his remaining in the race as a net positive that continues the discussion.
What I see is a man who is becoming increasingly negative in his tactics directed at the presumptive nominee. Since I am actually a liberal, I don't like the idea of the liberal candidate who has an actual shot at the Presidency being dragged through the mud for the sake of measuring perceived ideological purity -- or especially ridiculous tactics like the Rahm thing.
The worse Bernie does tonight, the more likely his campaign is to lighten up on the email blasts that encourage people who cannot really afford to donate to believe that they are putting money toward a revolution that is not even happening anymore (if it ever really was). Obviously people should feel free to spend their money however they want, but it feels especially disingenuous to mislead idealistic people caught up in a dream. Maybe the "I gave most of the money left in my account after getting laid off" or "I turn off the heat two nights a week" stories are just exaggerations, but it's still really unsettling. As a liberal, I don't like the idea of people with limited financial stability suffering for what is obviously a lost cause at this point.
Taking these two things into account, you can see how it's possible to both consider yourself a liberal and still want Bernie to drop out of the race or see any steps toward that happening as a net gain for liberals overall.
It's obviously fine if you disagree, and I don't intend to call your beliefs into question just because we have a different perspective on how to approach policy. Surely you can see why people would appreciate it if you gave them the same courtesy.
i was exaggerating, sorry Jesus Christ :/
User 463088
Banned
PolarBearsClub
Member
A vote in 2003 does not a foreign policy in 2016 make.
Oh god what have I done it's late I don't want to argue.
Ehh...listen I think Hilary is going to win, not only the nomm but whatever Republican she goes against, and americans will get their first female leader, but I wouldn't go around saying shes really a liberal. Shes a centrist with some slight left leanings at best. Anything further left than that, naw man. Her stances in most other parts of the western world are centrist with maybe some slight right leanings, but that's mostly cause the USA is like that.
We're talking about the US. She's a true blue American style liberal who will continue to pull the entire country ever so slightly further to the left with each year she's in office. No, she's not as progressive as Bernie, but maybe that's okay for 2016.
Square2015
Member
1,531 gap in Missouri. We probably at least that many gaffers in MO, did they vote or did they skip bc of spring break? That could('ve) make the difference.
I may get flack for this, but this tends to happen after the US media and political cycle runs it's course. I felt a similar thing with posts on here regarding the Iraq war, Snowden, Manning, Occupy Wallstreet etc. The media and establishment is very good at pushing through it's agenda and narrative, and many people get picked up along the way, even those who identify themselves as strong liberals.
The constant theme running throughout this primary cycle being that Bernie would get crushed in a general, that he's unelectable, that Trump would easily defeat him, that his policies are too forward thinking for the country, that his ideas would bankrupt the nation, that his policies would never make it through and are unrealistic, so they should just be ignored, that his socialist ties are too detrimental etc. Basically the majority of it based on fearmongering and assumption, rather than facts or merit, which is usually the case with these things. So many people siding a certain way not because they actually prefer the policies of a certain candidate, but because the other person's are safer, and because they've been conditioned in to thinking the alternative is too dangerous.
The way I look at it is that America had a chance to actually elect someone truly Liberal, someone who could actually shape America to veer properly left, and instead they've just picked someone who's more status quo and same old than anything else. But based off of everything that has been happening of late (with America faltering in many key areas over the last decade or two, and wealth inequality getting out of control), I can't say I'm surprised. I think corporate interests will simply continue to take centre stage, and allow the country to continuously peddle between this centrist right and far right political landscape.
All for Clinton? Great news! Hopefully this wakes the Sanders camp up and he gracefully bows out before embarrassing himself any further. Don't really want to hear anything further from him except for a concession speech and to tell his followers to get on Clinton's train. He's been a ridiculous waste of people's time and money and it's past time he realizes he's finished.
Actually, being wrong on guns and trade isn't just "TO YOU", it's to data and academic research.
Healthcare is still a heatedly contested literature, so I'll let you have that one
plagiarize
Banned
Yeah. I mean, people are just projecting foreign policy positions onto Sanders and filling the vacuum that is his record on such things, with what they hope he'll do. I trust the person with way more experience in that area.
You know, like someone who was secretary of state.
GOP delegates awarded tonight (PROVISIONAL):
Trump:
99 (FL)
15 (IL-ATL)
37 (IL-CD)
12 (MO-ATL)
30 (MO-CD)
9 (Northern Mariana lol)
29 (NC)
0 (OH)
231 TOTAL
Cruz:
0 (FL)
0 (IL-ATL)
9 (IL-CD)
0 (MO-ATL)
10 (MO-CD)
0 (NM)
27 (NC)
0 (OH)
46 TOTAL
Rubio:
0 (FL)
0 (IL-ATL)
0 (IL-CD)
0 (MO-ATL)
0 (MO-CD)
0 (NM)
6 (NC)
0 (OH)
6 TOTAL
Kasich:
0 (FL)
0 (IL-ATL)
8 (IL-CD)
0 (MO-ATL)
0 (MO-CD)
0 (NM)
9 (NC)
66 (OH)
83 TOAL
Trump:
99 (FL)
15 (IL-ATL)
37 (IL-CD)
12 (MO-ATL)
30 (MO-CD)
9 (Northern Mariana lol)
29 (NC)
0 (OH)
231 TOTAL
Cruz:
0 (FL)
0 (IL-ATL)
9 (IL-CD)
0 (MO-ATL)
10 (MO-CD)
0 (NM)
27 (NC)
0 (OH)
46 TOTAL
Rubio:
0 (FL)
0 (IL-ATL)
0 (IL-CD)
0 (MO-ATL)
0 (MO-CD)
0 (NM)
6 (NC)
0 (OH)
6 TOTAL
Kasich:
0 (FL)
0 (IL-ATL)
8 (IL-CD)
0 (MO-ATL)
0 (MO-CD)
0 (NM)
9 (NC)
66 (OH)
83 TOAL
Hillary Clinton has received more money from arms and military service companies than any other candidate during the 2016 presidential campaign, data from Open Secrets shows.
I don't suppose you have a problem with the anti gun dem being financed by gun companies? Some real progress will be done with gun control legislation with another clinton presidency!!!
Why assume they would all vote Bernie ...
Or, as mentioned earlier, just stop smearing Clinton, shits like that hurt GE.
Looks like it will have to be at any rate! But I agree. It's ok.
It isn't. She is one of the venomous types that attack Hillary with the rights talking points. The sooner Bernie drops out, or at least calls a truce and pulls his attack bros back, the sooner the rift can heal.
...wow
Looks like everyone gets money from them. Hopefully it won't affect her policy decisions.
Outtrigger888
Member
why does he freak you out?
Don't feel like I wasted my money at all. I bet every Sander's supporters will tell you the same. Shrugs.
VanCityGamer
Member
Looks like a good night for Trump, but that's behind the 272 target 538 had for him.
gutter_trash
Banned
Corporations are not allowed to donate directly to campaigns dude. The people who worked at those places were the ones who donated, not the companies themselves.
Also, really? TeleSUR?
Calamari41
41 > 38
Lol, this is the exact attitude that the GOP establishment vomits onto their base. At least they're rebelling against it.
Man, Trump smashed Cruz's face in.
Yeah this is pretty much the case. I don't think she's gonna be Obama 2.0 (or 3.0) since she's a different person and has different ideas. I think she'll be no different than any other Centrist Politician anywhere else. I don't really have any passion for her as President because...eh I don't really think she's gonna change all that much going on.
All the same though she's the best bet for the a good President this country has at the moment so I'm with her over Trump. Still, I don't have any illusion she's gonna be the anything more than she's already been but in a Presidential capacity.
Yeah this is the kinda attitude no one should have against Bernie, this is just petty.
Kite
Member
To me Hillary is essentially Obama with more backbone and more political clout. I've soured a bit on the hope and change stuff and want someone who can wield a big stick. Republicans aren't going to be swayed by the touchy-feely stuff.
Bernie is like that slightly nutty college professor who has great and interesting ideas but has no chance of getting it done in the real world. He needs to stay in the classroom err senate.
Well at least you're honest.
Which happened in Australia and guess what happened to gun violence and mass shootings!
Bernie would have the exact same Republican house Hillary will likely have. No laws get passed without Speaker Ryan putting them to a vote. We'd have comprehensive immigration reform if Boehner had put it to a vote, but he didn't. What I'm saying is, it is incredibly naieve to think Bernie was going to get all or even most of his agenda passed even if he did become President.
plagiarize
Banned
I don't give a shit who contributes to her campaign. I give a shit how she votes. And her voting record is the most anti gun voting record of any of the remaining candidates.
If gun companies want to try to buy her to minimize the damage she's going to do to them. Let them try.
If she was truly a puppet to corporate interests we wouldn't be talking about who is making campaign contributions and we'd be talking about her positions and her voting record.
But since they are both clearly the most *anti gun* of any remaining candidate in the primaries...
I don't give a shit how much money gun companies give to whomever.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Totally agree. I'll accept her as a candidate to hopefully reliably keep some maniac like Trump out, but she's such a boring candidate, no personality. I truly don't understand how people get excited about her. All the "queen" nonsense on this site as if she's some pop star is completely baffling to me.
As many have commentated in recent months, her policies and views are very 'hawkish', and it wouldn't surprise me if her presidency involved even more direct or indirect aggressive foreign policy moves, that led to more military engagements and volatility in the Middle East or other regions.
This is the very kind of attitude I'm talking about. People would rather start a negotiation from the centre, because reasons? Who cares if Bernie would face resistance, it'll be no different with Hilary, maybe even worse actually seeing as how most Republicans feel she should be in prison, not that she's just a crazy socialist. At the end of the day, starting from the left, and I mean actual left, still leaves the door open for greater change than starting from the centre or centre right. People are setting themselves up for more of the same, so don't be surprised when you get it.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
Tune into the AM radio Michael Berry Show if you want to hear bitter salt from a teabagger who regularly slurps Ted Cruz's taint.
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