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[Leona Lewis]

The super delegate system is totally appropriate for a Madisonian democracy. We're not ancient Athens. If you want to be president the system expects you to build a lot of consensus with existing power structures first. That seems fine to me, like, Trump is an object lesson in why we should continue developing and electing professional politicians.

The second half of your post is silly, like, the super delegates aren't candy. You can't swipe them. You have to actually present a case strong enough to convince them, which is exactly what Hillary did in the first place.

If they're already pledged to another candidate who's much popular, well, your case just needs to be that much better. But if it is then good for you, I think.

And that's great. I never said it goes against the process. In the end, the circus transpiring on the GOP side makes it look positively ceremonious anyway.

It's just bad optics for a candidate who claims to represent the people's will to actively subvert it. The cavalcade of posters here either lamenting or deriding (or both) the Sanders campaign's decision to go down this route bears that out.

Simple as that.

For the record, by the way, I think Bernie should stay for the reasons that Joy Reid (among others) astutely noted tonight. He's helping bring out the youth vote for spring elections that resulted in the ousters of some ACTUALLY very bad dudes in Illinois, for instance.

But past May, his utility wanes.

Hillary didn't concede the nomination to Obama until June 7th, 2008.

This sound familiar to anyone right now?

Hillary decided to to stay around until June, despite Obama gaining an insurmountable delegate lead by probably late April or early May. There were even calls for her to withdraw earlier than that, because John McCain had already locked up his Republican nomination and the Democrats wanted to move on to preparing for the general.

Seeing the Hillary supporters now calling for Bernie to withdraw instead of grinding it out until June is pretty hilarious and hypocritical. Bernie has every right to stay in this 2016 race, whether he is mathematically eliminated or not, for as long as Hillary did in 2008.

I might add that by the end the Hillary supporters were very harmful to their own party's chances in the general. It was desperate Hillary supporters, in the waning days of her 2008 campaign, that began circulating emails claiming that Obama wasn't born in the United States and was not eligible to run for President.

Hillary's campaign later disavowed these claims, which did not originate from them, when she finally conceded and endorsed Obama, but the damage was done because the Birther movement was born and the Republicans didn't take all that long before they stole that idea and used it to undermine Obama for years.

So let's put the idea to bed that Bernie needs to withdraw now because he has no mathematical chance, or that his remaining in the race is going to do some irreparable damage to Hillary's chances in the general. Because if Hillary couldn't do it to Obama in 2008, Bernie certainly won't be able to do it to Hillary in 2016.

Not sure if post history goes back that far, but a LOT of Hillary supporters here were Obama supporters in 2008. Me included, and I have the canvassing photos and badge from the on-the-ground work I did to prove it.

 

[Officerrob]

Hillary didn't concede the nomination to Obama until June 7th, 2008.

This sound familiar to anyone right now?

Hillary decided to to stay around until June, despite Obama gaining an insurmountable delegate lead by probably late April or early May. There were even calls for her to withdraw earlier than that, because John McCain had already locked up his Republican nomination and the Democrats wanted to move on to preparing for the general.

Seeing the Hillary supporters now calling for Bernie to withdraw instead of grinding it out until June is pretty hilarious and hypocritical. Bernie has every right to stay in this 2016 race, whether he is mathematically eliminated or not, for as long as Hillary did in 2008.

I might add that by the end the Hillary supporters were very harmful to their own party's chances in the general. It was desperate Hillary supporters, in the waning days of her 2008 campaign, that began circulating emails claiming that Obama wasn't born in the United States and was not eligible to run for President.

Hillary's campaign later disavowed these claims, which did not originate from them, when she finally conceded and endorsed Obama, but the damage was done because the Birther movement was born and the Republicans didn't take all that long before they stole that idea and used it to undermine Obama for years.

So let's put the idea to bed that Bernie needs to withdraw now because he has no mathematical chance, or that his remaining in the race is going to do some irreparable damage to Hillary's chances in the general. Because if Hillary couldn't do it to Obama in 2008, Bernie certainly won't be able to do it to Hillary in 2016.

Bernie is MUCH further behind than Hillary was

 

[Allard]

Hillary didn't concede the nomination to Obama until June 7th, 2008.

This sound familiar to anyone right now?

Hillary decided to to stay around until June, despite Obama gaining an insurmountable delegate lead by probably late April or early May. There were even calls for her to withdraw earlier than that, because John McCain had already locked up his Republican nomination and the Democrats wanted to move on to preparing for the general.

Seeing the Hillary supporters now calling for Bernie to withdraw instead of grinding it out until June is pretty hilarious and hypocritical. Bernie has every right to stay in this 2016 race, whether he is mathematically eliminated or not, for as long as Hillary did in 2008.

I might add that by the end the Hillary supporters were very harmful to their own party's chances in the general. It was desperate Hillary supporters, in the waning days of her 2008 campaign, that began circulating emails claiming that Obama wasn't born in the United States and was not eligible to run for President.

Hillary's campaign later disavowed these claims, which did not originate from them, when she finally conceded and endorsed Obama, but the damage was done because the Birther movement was born and the Republicans didn't take all that long before they stole that idea and used it to undermine Obama for years.

So let's put the idea to bed that Bernie needs to withdraw now because he has no mathematical chance, or that his remaining in the race is going to do some irreparable damage to Hillary's chances in the general. Because if Hillary couldn't do it to Obama in 2008, Bernie certainly won't be able to do it to Hillary in 2016.

1) you assume all Hilary voters this election were Hilary Voters in 2008, I was an Obama supporter asking Hilary to drop in 2008, I am a Hilary supporter believing Bernie should drop too so we can focus efforts for the GE and not just for Hilary but the entire party, down ticket and all.

2) Hilary who was in this position has already said it is up to Bernie to choose how he wants to go forward specifically because she knows she lasted as long as she did in 2008. She can't tell him to drop out, but others can.

 

[ivysaur12]

but the damage was done because the Birther movement was born and the Republicans didn't take all that long before they stole that idea and used it to undermine Obama for years.

So let's put the idea to bed that Bernie needs to withdraw now because he has no mathematical chance, or that his remaining in the race is going to do some irreparable damage to Hillary's chances in the general. Because if Hillary couldn't do it to Obama in 2008, Bernie certainly won't be able to do it to Hillary in 2016.

a buh?????

(Hillary absolutely should've dropped out way earlier in 08, but it's also important to remind everyone, like you said, that the Hillary campaign and her surrogates had nothing to do with the Birther movement's origins)

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Bernie is MUCH further behind than Hillary ever was

Irrelevant. Hillary was possibly eliminated as early as April, but certainly by May. She stayed in the race at least a full month longer than she should have based on the delegate path, possibly even 2 months longer. Bernie's deficit being larger doesn't change my overall point.

 

[KingSnake]

Hillary didn't concede the nomination to Obama until June 7th, 2008.

This sound familiar to anyone right now?

What was the delegates count at the same moment in 2008?

 

[User 463088]

Hillary didn't concede the nomination to Obama until June 7th, 2008.

This sound familiar to anyone right now?

Hillary decided to to stay around until June, despite Obama gaining an insurmountable delegate lead by probably late April or early May. There were even calls for her to withdraw earlier than that, because John McCain had already locked up his Republican nomination and the Democrats wanted to move on to preparing for the general.

Seeing the Hillary supporters now calling for Bernie to withdraw instead of grinding it out until June is pretty hilarious and hypocritical. Bernie has every right to stay in this 2016 race, whether he is mathematically eliminated or not, for as long as Hillary did in 2008.

I might add that by the end the Hillary supporters were very harmful to their own party's chances in the general. It was desperate Hillary supporters, in the waning days of her 2008 campaign, that began circulating emails claiming that Obama wasn't born in the United States and was not eligible to run for President.

Hillary's campaign later disavowed these claims, which did not originate from them, when she finally conceded and endorsed Obama, but the damage was done because the Birther movement was born and the Republicans didn't take all that long before they stole that idea and used it to undermine Obama for years.

So let's put the idea to bed that Bernie needs to withdraw now because he has no mathematical chance, or that his remaining in the race is going to do some irreparable damage to Hillary's chances in the general. Because if Hillary couldn't do it to Obama in 2008, Bernie certainly won't be able to do it to Hillary in 2016.

Your argument rests on the assumption that all Hillary 16 people were Hillary 08 people. Most weren't, although I was. Even then, I knew once she got 100 delegates behind she wasn't going to catch up. It's just not probable in the system we Democrats use. A margin of 325 is even more improbable to come back from.

 

[Armaros]

Irrelevant. Hillary was possibly eliminated as early as April, but certainly by May. She stayed in the race at least a full month longer than she should have based on the delegate path, possibly even 2 months longer. Bernie's deficit being larger doesn't change my overall point.

Then by the logic, bernie should concede three times as fast because he is that much further behind.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Hillary didn't concede the nomination to Obama until June 7th, 2008.

This sound familiar to anyone right now?

Hillary decided to to stay around until June, despite Obama gaining an insurmountable delegate lead by probably late April or early May. There were even calls for her to withdraw earlier than that, because John McCain had already locked up his Republican nomination and the Democrats wanted to move on to preparing for the general.

Seeing the Hillary supporters now calling for Bernie to withdraw instead of grinding it out until June is pretty hilarious and hypocritical. Bernie has every right to stay in this 2016 race, whether he is mathematically eliminated or not, for as long as Hillary did in 2008.

I might add that by the end the Hillary supporters were very harmful to their own party's chances in the general. It was desperate Hillary supporters, in the waning days of her 2008 campaign, that began circulating emails claiming that Obama wasn't born in the United States and was not eligible to run for President.

Hillary's campaign later disavowed these claims, which did not originate from them, when she finally conceded and endorsed Obama, but the damage was done because the Birther movement was born and the Republicans didn't take all that long before they stole that idea and used it to undermine Obama for years.

So let's put the idea to bed that Bernie needs to withdraw now because he has no mathematical chance, or that his remaining in the race is going to do some irreparable damage to Hillary's chances in the general. Because if Hillary couldn't do it to Obama in 2008, Bernie certainly won't be able to do it to Hillary in 2016.

You pointed out several reasons why Bernie should drop out. Your argument is that Bernie should stay in because Hillary did in 2008, and we need a toxic element of the Democratic party to rise out of his spurned supporters?

Also it would only be hypocritical if they definitely supported Hillary in June 2008 and then think Bernie should drop out. It isn't exactly some wild fantasy to imagine you might be talking to people who supported President Obama in 2008 and Clinton now...

 

[Officerrob]

Irrelevant. Hillary was possibly eliminated as early as April, but certainly by May. She stayed in the race at least a full month longer than she should have based on the delegate path, possibly even 2 months longer. Bernie's deficit being larger doesn't change my overall point.

Delegate difference is irrelevant? OK then...

 

[excelsiorlef]

Irrelevant. Hillary was possibly eliminated as early as April, but certainly by May. She stayed in the race at least a full month longer than she should have based on the delegate path, possibly even 2 months longer. Bernie's deficit being larger doesn't change my overall point.

You're right she should have.

So in your opinion should Bernie?

 

[mo60]

Hillary didn't concede the nomination to Obama until June 7th, 2008.

This sound familiar to anyone right now?

Hillary decided to to stay around until June, despite Obama gaining an insurmountable delegate lead by probably late April or early May. There were even calls for her to withdraw earlier than that, because John McCain had already locked up his Republican nomination and the Democrats wanted to move on to preparing for the general.

Seeing the Hillary supporters now calling for Bernie to withdraw instead of grinding it out until June is pretty hilarious and hypocritical. Bernie has every right to stay in this 2016 race, whether he is mathematically eliminated or not, for as long as Hillary did in 2008.

I might add that by the end the Hillary supporters were very harmful to their own party's chances in the general. It was desperate Hillary supporters, in the waning days of her 2008 campaign, that began circulating emails claiming that Obama wasn't born in the United States and was not eligible to run for President.

Hillary's campaign later disavowed these claims, which did not originate from them, when she finally conceded and endorsed Obama, but the damage was done because the Birther movement was born and the Republicans didn't take all that long before they stole that idea and used it to undermine Obama for years.

So let's put the idea to bed that Bernie needs to withdraw now because he has no mathematical chance, or that his remaining in the race is going to do some irreparable damage to Hillary's chances in the general. Because if Hillary couldn't do it to Obama in 2008, Bernie certainly won't be able to do it to Hillary in 2016.

I don't think it matters at this point. I think the dems will have ample time to prepare for whatever the republicans throw at them in the general. It's not like the presidential race on the republican side will end until June and maybe even July if the nominee for the republicans has to be chosen at their convention.I just hope that both Bernie and Hilary don't hurt whoever ends up the nominee for the dems(most likely Hilary) chances of winning the presidency for the rest of the race.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

You're right she should have.

So in your opinion should Bernie?

Only if he wants to. He has every right to stay in it until the convention, regardless of his deficit, if that's what he wants. No one has any right to call for him to drop out after what happened in 2008.

 

[Allard]

Irrelevant. Hillary was possibly eliminated as early as April, but certainly by May. She stayed in the race at least a full month longer than she should have based on the delegate path, possibly even 2 months longer. Bernie's deficit being larger doesn't change my overall point.

Hilary was banking on some kind of superdelegate upset and tried to get close enough to make it possible. Its the path Bernie now finds himself except unlike in 2008 when Hilary DID have a majority of the early pledged super delegates, Bernie doesn't even have that narrative. In the end it doesn't matter, he can stay a message candidate so long as he doesn't poison the well. I don't mind seeing more young people vote and get involved in the process and like others said I also don't think its horrible they involve themselves in the primary process for state voting which I feel they rarely do in non presidential election years.

 

[Leona Lewis]

I don't think it matters at this point. I think the dems will have ample time to prepare for whatever the republicans throw at them in the general. It's not like the presidential race on the republican side will end until June and maybe even July if the nominee for the republicans has to be chosen at their convention.

It actually does matter. All the money that's being spent on campaigning could instead be funneled into the down-ballot races that could really use that boost in swing districts.

Every month that goes by is an opportunity cost for those congressional prospects.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Only if he wants to. He has every right to stay in it until the convention, regardless of his deficit, if that's what he wants. No one has any right to call for him to drop out after what happened in 2008.

Sure I do.

I'm not Clinton.

She also has 3 times the lead 2 months earlier. You talk April/May at 100 we're mid March at 325

But again she should have and Sanders should.

I'm being ideologically consistent. Can you say the same?

 

[Kathian]

Only a couple of hours ago it was wisdom that Clinton would get the super delegates. Now after thumping Sanders theyre going to back him? Nonsense. He's just liking the stage.

I do think Chicago hurt him. Some gaffers rightly said that when presented with the extreme right and extreme left, many Americans would move to the centre. Looks like they have. Doesn't matter he was not involved, his name was dragged into it.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Sure I do.

I'm not Clinton.

She also has 3 times the lead 2 months earlier. You talk April/May at 100 we're mid March at 325

But again she should have and Sanders should.

I'm being ideologically consistent. Can you say the same?

Yes. I'm saying if Hillary was given a free pass to hang around after elimination, Bernie should get one too. That's a consistent position.

 

[Matt]

Yes. I'm saying if Hillary was given a free pass to hang around after elimination, Bernie should get one too. That's a consistent position.

"If Hillary was given a free pass"... she wasn't. There were constant calls for her to drop out. And, again, that was an election decided much later by a much smaller margin.

It's Bernie's right to stay in, just like it's ours to say it's a bad idea and we'd rather he not.

 

[mo60]

It actually does matter. All the money that's being spent on campaigning could instead be funneled into the down-ballot races that could really use that boost in swing districts.

Every month that goes by is an opportunity cost for those congressional prospects.

True. The democrats need to start focusing more on the senate and congress races that are going on during the GE and funneling money to the presidential primary could be wasting some of this money.

 

[Phased]

Then by the logic, bernie should concede three times as fast because he is that much further behind.

Probably, yeah. I supported Obama in 08 and was right there with people calling for her to drop out when she was being stubborn, but the difference is she actually had a halfway valid case, he doesn't anymore. Her and her supporters were doing a lot of damage to Obama and his GE chances. If McCain hadn't chosen Palin it could have been a much different race.

The Clinton/Sanders race was much much more tame, but Bernie supporters going from denouncing Superdelegates to now apparently getting behind his strategy to somehow convince them to come over to his side shows the potential could be there for desperate moves that could hurt Hillary in the GE.

If he wants to get his message out he should stop soliciting donations from people who may not be able to afford it, throw his support behind Clinton, and stump for her in states where he's strong. Failing that, he should stay out of the way and stump for some down-ticket candidates that are closer to his ideals (supporting down-ticket spots is just as important, if not moreso)

There's a lot at stake this election.

 

[shinra-bansho]

His cause would arguably be better served by using his remaining campaign contributions to set up a non-profit a la Howard Dean or for downticket races of candidates he agrees with. He'll get a major DNC speaking slot regardless.

 

[Jonm1010]

His cause would arguably be better served by using his remaining campaign contributions to set up a non-profit a la Howard Dean or for downticket races of candidates he agrees with. He'll get a major DNC speaking slot regardless.

This is probably the most reasonable and understanding post on Bernie's path forward and situation in the last few hours. One that actually weighs a core aspect of his decision making most are ignoring.

People are forgetting Bernie is not running in a vacuum, like Hillary, he is in a feedback loop with his supporters. They are financing him based on expectations and that weighs on any calculus he engages in. Just conceding tomorrow could be argued as betraying the trust and expectations of those that are supporting him. Many directly through monetary contributions. That money went to Bernie, not Hillary and not the DNC. It went because they supported his ideas and bought into his promises, ideals, chances and his pledge to fight for them.

While many want to frame his nobility around whether he will graciously exit sooner then later once the chances become improbable, that ignores the nobility that exisists in fighting for and doing right by those that are supporting you.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

What were the final numbers? Never saw them after going through a lot of pages. Saw dems though

 

[Matt]

While many want to frame his nobility around whether he will graciously exit sooner then later once the chances become improbable, that ignores the nobility that exisists in fighting for and doing right by those that are supporting you.

That's being very generous. I find it hard to agree that wasting their money is a valid definition of "doing right" by his supporters. Every dollar he spends going forward is a dollar that could have been doing some good elsewhere.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Yes. I'm saying if Hillary was given a free pass to hang around after elimination, Bernie should get one too. That's a consistent position.

I was for Obama in 08, and believe me when I say that she wasn't given a free pass. Everyone was telling Hillary to drop out when it was clear she couldn't mathematically win. I was one of them.

 

[Tubie]

Yes. I'm saying if Hillary was given a free pass to hang around after elimination, Bernie should get one too. That's a consistent position.

wtf? she got a LOT of heat for staying on till the convention and probably did a lot of damage to Obama in the general.

There's a reason most super delegates switched to Obama when it was clear Hillary had no chance to pass him in pledged delegates.

 

[StopMakingSense]

His cause would arguably be better served by using his remaining campaign contributions to set up a non-profit a la Howard Dean or for downticket races of candidates he agrees with. He'll get a major DNC speaking slot regardless.

Agreed.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I guess the phrase "free pass" was not a good one there. I should clarify that I don't mean everyone was just happy at the time to have her stay in it all the way until the end. But I do mean that she stayed in long after it was over and that ultimately everyone just forgave her or were forced to let it go and it seemed fine after the fact.

I mean Obama made her his first Secretary of State even though some of her supporters didn't think he was an American citizen. I don't really understand the Obama-Hillary relationship at all come to think of it. That 2008 primary was quite bitterly contested, then suddenly everything was fine even though the Birthers and other anti-Obama Republicans were ultimately able to undermine almost Obama's whole first term.

 

[Xe4]

I guess the phrase "free pass" was not a good one there. I should clarify that I don't mean everyone was just happy at the time to have her stay in it all the way until the end. But I do mean that she stayed in long after it was over and that ultimately everyone just forgave her or were forced to let it go and it seemed fine after the fact.

I mean Obama made her his first Secretary of State even though some of her supporters didn't think he was an American citizen. I don't really understand the Obama-Hillary relationship at all come to think of it. That 2008 primary was quite bitterly contested, then suddenly everything was fine even though the Birthers and other anti-Obama Republicans were ultimately able to undermine almost Obama's whole first term.

It was a closely contested political race. Of course there was a lot of vitrol. Only reason there isn't any this race is Hillary doesn't see Sanders as much of a threat. When and if she would those kiddy gloves would come off and Sanders would be attacked so viciously it would make his head spin.

As for Obama and Clinton, even though it was an ugly race Obama and Clinton clearly respected one another. Obama knew Clinton would be one of the stronger candidates in 2016 so he gave her a position that would improve her approval ratings and give her foreign policy experience, hence the Secretary of State appointment.

For a while Clinton had fantastic favoribity ratings up in the 70s if I recall correctly. People honestly liked her. Than republicans saw her as a threat in 2016 and attacked her with everything they had including all of the Bengazi hearings and hyping up the email scandal to rediculous proportions. And it worked, her ratings went down and a lot of people trust her less because of those attacks. The Republican propaganda machine is very good at its job.

Hell it may have won them the white house if their own party wasn't in the shit heaps, partially due to the same propoganda machine they used to attack Clinton so much.

At least that's what I read into it.

As for Hillaryis44'ers, they're like /Sandersforpresident'ers, the fringe of the party that will beleive the dumbest crap about the oponent for the all chance it will make them loose/ineligible. For crazy 08 Hillary supporters it was Obama birther theories, for crazy Sanders supporters it is that Hillary will be indicted.

 

[KingBroly]

I guess the phrase "free pass" was not a good one there. I should clarify that I don't mean everyone was just happy at the time to have her stay in it all the way until the end. But I do mean that she stayed in long after it was over and that ultimately everyone just forgave her or were forced to let it go and it seemed fine after the fact.

I mean Obama made her his first Secretary of State even though some of her supporters didn't think he was an American citizen. I don't really understand the Obama-Hillary relationship at all come to think of it. That 2008 primary was quite bitterly contested, then suddenly everything was fine even though the Birthers and other anti-Obama Republicans were ultimately able to undermine almost Obama's whole first term.

Obama made that offer to her so she couldn't run against him in 2012 one way or another. It was a backup plan in case his first 4 years sucked. If she turned it down, she'd have had no shot in 2012 since he could've argued 'she said she was done but lied about it.'

 

[Xe4]

Obama made that offer to her so she couldn't run against him in 2012 one way or another. It was a backup plan in case his first 4 years sucked. If she turned it down, she'd have had no shot in 2012 since he could've argued 'she said she was done but lied about it.'

I highly doubt Clinton of all people would have primaried Obama. It just isn't a very smart move for anyone. It would either cost Obama the Whitehouse or Clinton the Whitehouse, depending on who won. She had a better chance in '16 and she knew it. Say what you will about Clinton, but she is a very smart politician.

 

[Matt]

Obama made that offer to her so she couldn't run against him in 2012 one way or another. It was a backup plan in case his first 4 years sucked. If she turned it down, she'd have had no shot in 2012 since he could've argued 'she said she was done but lied about it.'

No, none of this is true.

 

[KingBroly]

I highly doubt Clinton of all people would have primaried Obama. It just isn't a very smart move for anyone. It would either cost Obama the Whitehouse or Clinton the Whitehouse, depending on who won. She had a better chance in '16 and she knew it. Say what you will about Clinton, but she is a very smart politician.

If there is an opportunity, Hillary Clinton will always jump on it.

 

[teruterubozu]

Bernie should stick it out for the enthusiasm of the party. I'm afraid if he goes away people are gonna get bored big time.

 

[Averon]

If Bernie has the money and will, he should campaign until the convention. If that is enough to sink Hilary, then she was a weak candidate from the start.

 

[Officerrob]

Obama made that offer to her so she couldn't run against him in 2012 one way or another. It was a backup plan in case his first 4 years sucked. If she turned it down, she'd have had no shot in 2012 since he could've argued 'she said she was done but lied about it.'

You pulled this straight out of your ass

 

[MThanded]

Now people can quit beating the drum about Tyler pedigo. Like I said don't live or die by a model that hasn't been through the ringer yet.

 

[KingSnake]

In the end Sanders is free to continue if he wants. Might end up in a worse position than now, as less and less people will find the enthusiasm to support him losing (both with vote and donations). I guess he doesn't have anything better to spend the donations on.

 

[BanGy.nz]

Obama made that offer to her so she couldn't run against him in 2012 one way or another. It was a backup plan in case his first 4 years sucked. If she turned it down, she'd have had no shot in 2012 since he could've argued 'she said she was done but lied about it.'

...You think Obama gave Clinton Secretary of State to stop a primary challenge? Thats insane, Secretary of State is far too important to give away for stupid political reasons.

 

[WoodWERD]

That's a pretty exact estimate! How many elections did you run to come to that conclusion?

He sees the path to victory in the flames of course.

 

[Cerium]

Obama made that offer to her so she couldn't run against him in 2012 one way or another. It was a backup plan in case his first 4 years sucked. If she turned it down, she'd have had no shot in 2012 since he could've argued 'she said she was done but lied about it.'

You made this shit up. The Clintons are ruthless when they have to be but they are not stupid; no Democratic primary can be won without the black vote (as Sanders is learning now), so she would not only have failed but she would have killed her Presidential ambitions forever.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Yeah, I was an Obama supporter in 2008 as well. Obama and Clinton warmed up after the election because politics is a show and once the performance is over its back to business, especially when you know what side your bread is buttered on.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I think she accepted the Secretary of State job with the initial plan of killing Jack Markell. This would force Joe Biden to return to Delaware and take on the role of Governor. Thereafter she'd proceed to destroy Nancy Pelosi for some sort of corruption. And get rid of the President Pro Tempore somehow, probably murder again. And orchestrate the impeachment of Obama as a foreign-born Muslim.

Thereby assuming the Presidency. *tap tap*

 

[Africanus]

I was going through the thread and, not sure if anyone mentioned it, but Hillary took Illinois definitively, which is rather surprising but expected given prior polls.

 

[Christopher]

Bernie is finished and people should stop trashing Hilary now.

Also, the Internet and liberal media was all over sanders guess that doesn't translate to the real world

 

[Drek]

Hillary didn't concede the nomination to Obama until June 7th, 2008.

This sound familiar to anyone right now?

Hillary decided to to stay around until June, despite Obama gaining an insurmountable delegate lead by probably late April or early May. There were even calls for her to withdraw earlier than that, because John McCain had already locked up his Republican nomination and the Democrats wanted to move on to preparing for the general.

Seeing the Hillary supporters now calling for Bernie to withdraw instead of grinding it out until June is pretty hilarious and hypocritical. Bernie has every right to stay in this 2016 race, whether he is mathematically eliminated or not, for as long as Hillary did in 2008.

I might add that by the end the Hillary supporters were very harmful to their own party's chances in the general. It was desperate Hillary supporters, in the waning days of her 2008 campaign, that began circulating emails claiming that Obama wasn't born in the United States and was not eligible to run for President.

Hillary's campaign later disavowed these claims, which did not originate from them, when she finally conceded and endorsed Obama, but the damage was done because the Birther movement was born and the Republicans didn't take all that long before they stole that idea and used it to undermine Obama for years.

So let's put the idea to bed that Bernie needs to withdraw now because he has no mathematical chance, or that his remaining in the race is going to do some irreparable damage to Hillary's chances in the general. Because if Hillary couldn't do it to Obama in 2008, Bernie certainly won't be able to do it to Hillary in 2016.

You should probably go back and check those facts bud. Clinton was never as far behind as Sanders was before yesterday. Obama won the first four states by a modest margin, Clinton took a legitimate lead with the next two. Obama won a narrow Super Tuesday victory and used that momentum for a big February run of victories. That gave him a slightly more than 100 delegate lead, Clinton cut that down to about 60 through the April, May, and early June primaries before dropping out.

If Clinton had moved the numbers on a few late primary season states by 5% she probably would have come away the victor. Sanders is down by substantially more than Clinton ever was and needs to move the need by double digits in multiple states.

Additionally, the whole Birther bullshit has been a legitimately damaging element during Obama's tenure further fueling the racial hatred of the guy. It was also the first big foray onto the public political stage for Donald J. Trump, getting tons of air time on Fox News to shout birther rhetoric. Now I'm sure the GOP was going to pick it up anyway, but I'm sure the Clinton supporters pushing it helped poison a larger portion of the country than it otherwise would have.

Also, as a 2008 Obama supporter I felt she should have dropped out sooner since Obama had better machinery and had boxed Clinton out on the super delegates.

 

[NIGHT-]

Man... Bernie was truly the only candidate worth supporting(imo). We've truly come down to a douche vs Turd Sandwich... But I guess Trump is getting my vote. Gonna be an interesting election year though

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Man... Bernie was truly the only candidate worth supporting(imo). We've truly come down to a douche vs Turd Sandwich... But I guess Trump is getting my vote. Gonna be an interesting election year though

Trump? Can you explain this?

 

[giga]

Reddit keeps saying that the worst part is over and that the rest of the states are favorable to Bernie. Their analyses continue to favor the number of states over actual delegates won. The majority of delegate-rich states left favor Hillary. The math just doesn't show Sanders' small percentage point victories in states like Idaho mattering to the big picture.

Trump? Can you explain this?

NIGHT- is not a fan of Muslims, or minorities in general.