2 Super 2 Tuesday |OT| I'm Really Feeling (The Bern) (3/15, 3/22, 3/26 Contests)
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I can only assume this is a joke post.
Matt_
World's #1 One Direction Fan: Everyone else in the room can see it, everyone else but you~~~
I cannot believe that Hillary won Ohio as much as she did, with the same margin as NC!
I know its been discussed to death, but this really is the end for Sanders.
everyone expected Hillary to widen her lead last night but it seemed that people were expecting her to loose 3/5 states. Sanders' message would be all about momentum, and while I still wouldn't have agreed with him staying in the race I can see why he would.
With him loosing all five states and losing Ohio by that much you've not even got a valid momentum argument.
Continuing the campaign at this point is just harmful to the overall democrat platform and whats more, unfair to his supporters.
He's done what he set out to achieve and brought many issues to the national spotlight. The best bet for him would be to continue to use his national presence to support that agenda, but it shouldn't be done whilst still being a candidate
I know its been discussed to death, but this really is the end for Sanders.
everyone expected Hillary to widen her lead last night but it seemed that people were expecting her to loose 3/5 states. Sanders' message would be all about momentum, and while I still wouldn't have agreed with him staying in the race I can see why he would.
With him loosing all five states and losing Ohio by that much you've not even got a valid momentum argument.
Continuing the campaign at this point is just harmful to the overall democrat platform and whats more, unfair to his supporters.
He's done what he set out to achieve and brought many issues to the national spotlight. The best bet for him would be to continue to use his national presence to support that agenda, but it shouldn't be done whilst still being a candidate
LOL, no.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
He was one of the ones complaining about black people not turning out for Bernie if I recall correctly.
I just don't trust her, hell she's being investigated by the fucking FBI. This country deserves someone better than that.
But you guys are free to support and vote for you want, as am I.
andythinkpad
Member
I can't vote for these 2 assholes. I think I am going to vote green party.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
But that is exactly why he did it. A lot of signs from both the Obama and Clinton camp is the two don't really care for each other after the primary they ran against each other but he needed her supporters support so it became clear he would give her a nice position in his administration to help her run now. Everything we're seeing now is the effect of that compromise between the the two in 2008.
Tide goes in, tide goes out. Can't explain that!
Trump is being sued for defrauding people out of thousands of dollars...
You are 100% completely dead wrong. She couldn't run in 2012 he was a sitting President. You don't challenge sitting presidents in primaries. That is political suicide. Not even Bernie would have done that.
That was NEVER a concern.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
As others have said turd vs shit sandwich. Obama is going to be missed..... Fast
Except Hillary is going to keep pushing all of Obamas policies. She agrees with him on nearly everything and constantly heaps praise on him endlessly.
theignoramus
Member
She's nothing like Obama on FP. I would have thought that massive essay in the Atlantic made that abundantly clear, she's a dangerous liberal interventionist. She's the epitome of a hold your nose while you vote candidate and is lucky to be running against a sexist bigot.
metalslimer
Member
And yet you are considering voting for trump? Yep, troll
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
Wait what? Maybe I came in late so I didn't see the whole convo but I never said she was going to run in 2012. My argument was she was giving the Secretary of State position as a compromise for her and Bill's endorsement in 2008. Obama was having problem with "blue dog" working class white democrats and needed Bill and Hillary (but mostly bill) to stump for him to gain that demographics support. So he gave her that position and it was pretty well known Hillary would use it to add to her resume for a 2016 run. Which is where we are now.
My point was while she was the Secretary of State they disagreed on a good share of policy (she was more hawkish in general) and leaks to the media made it clear that they were never really cool with each other. She did was she was told of course but everyone knew it was just a kickback job to return the 2008 favor and get her ready for 2008.
30 years of constant GOP attacks have sunk in.
People can't say why they dislike her, pointing to actual events; they just know they don't.
You'd think a liberal Chicago feminist that pushed a healthcare plan to the left of Obama in the 90s and was one the top 10 liberal votes while in the senate would get more credit.
Her only fault is she's been more hawkish on foreign policy when asked; but one has to wonder of that's just a front she puts on because of the optics of being a female on a males political circle. I honestly don't see her being much different than Obama there either.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
Not until recently. I am not going to go into that flip flop argument because done right it's a practical, pragmatic approach to politics but a lot of signs are she is more hawkish on foreign policy. Domestically she might follow his lead due to her not really caring about that as much as international issues (she really got burned bad for trying to get health care back in the day and mostly avoided it sense) She could of had just about any cabinet position she wanted and she chose Secretary of State because that was her strength.
Didn't his camp say supers don't matter and are undemocratic?
Lord_Byron28
Member
I agree with what you are saying. I feel it'd be in everyone's best interest to probably not have Bernie continue running around on national media exposing goverment corruption that Clinton is tied to. As while this deserves to be called out, I'm not willing to listen to 8 more years of obstructionism in Congress and a damaging 2018 voter turnout from stuff started from this campaign. With that said both the Birther and the Obama is a Muslim both originated from her campaign and supporters. Those are lows on a whole other level; at least Sanders is discussing the truth and not using fear of race or religion to bring out voters. Anecdotally but I knew a number of blue collar southern democrats that supported Clinton but didn't support Obama in the GE or weren't going to until Clinton joined. A number of them were fueled by the Obama is secretly a Kenyan Muslim.
Officerrob
Banned
Yet it's basically widely known that Obama prefers Hillary to Bernie
shinra-bansho
Member
Obama and Clinton are by most accounts these days friends, or friendly at least. I'm not sure where the idea that there's animus between them 8 years later comes from.
Of course he is free to continue. I don't understand why people say this. No one is saying he can't, they are just saying he shouldn't
I think the best argument for not simply settling for Hilliary is that nothing will ever change if the DNC knows that far-left liberals are willing to hold their noses and vote for whoever they present to us. Knowing this, they'll always just push the most mainstream, middle-of-the-road, established candidate. There will never be any incentive to push the party further left with any expediency if everyone is expected to simply settle for the presumptive nominee. This might be a good thing, but it certainly doesn't feel very democratic. I feel like in a situation where I'll be judged harshly for not voting for the lesser of two evils is not very democratic at all, and really embitters me to being an active participant in the franchise.
It's bitter Bernie fans who want to convince themselves Hillary is bad when she is literally Obama 2.0.
I mean someone just posted she doesn't care about domestic issues? I mean what the hell? The kind of koolaid one has to drink to think Hillary has radically different policies than Obama must be something strong. Because it is laughable to even entertain for anyone who has followed Hilary these past 20 years.
I mean does everyone forget the 90s where the GOP attacked her endlessly for being a radical liberal? For more left than Bill? Or the fact she had one of the most consistent liberal voting records in the senate?
You can't just throw these away and deem her right of Obama because you don't like her. It goes against all the facts and logic.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
So? I bet she was Bill's favorite candidate in 2008, it didn't mean she was the best person for the job then either. People like people all the time. I don't hate Hillary, but let's not act like she doesn't have flaws. I even favored her until I saw how out of her element she was in the last few weeks when it came to simple domestic stuff and keeping her story straight.
My hope is she gets a great staff to cover up her flaws.
Just pointing out that both Obama and Clinton were slammed for having very little foriegn policy experience in 2008. She wanted that job because it was a resume builder, and she was right. I also think it shut up a lot of people that thought she'd be weak on foriegn policy.
They both ran on a platform that "sure the GOP has more foreign policy experience, but they keep making bad calls where it matters".
As for her and Obama's relationship, let's not give the beltway gossip rags credit. By all accounts the Clinton's and Obama's have been a good team that respect each other. They put down their differences after the primary and worked their asses off together, and got shit done.
Finally, any pretense about Bernie's campaign can end. There was no revolution, and there won't be any major headwinds for Hillary as she enters the general. Now we can finally get serious there.
Marco Rubio's political career is... wow. What an embarrassment. Republican now have a five alarm fire on their hands and there's no fire department for hundreds of miles.
Marco Rubio's political career is... wow. What an embarrassment. Republican now have a five alarm fire on their hands and there's no fire department for hundreds of miles.
Diprosalic
Banned
even if it is, i've read this from Bernie supporters many times, they'd rather see the world burn than vote for her.
The key to that is down ticket races. That support bleeds both up and down the ticket.
The idea of Bernie as the one true Savior is as wrong as those that saw Obama as the one true Savior. The reality is the wave election gave him the support needed to pass progressive legislation the party could not otherwise. The party adjusted.
And then prpgressives threw up a mission accomplished banner and didn't show up in 2010. The party fell back.
If we want someone like Bernie to be viable and effective at the top of the ticket, we have to realize this is a 30 year project where you need to vote every single year, and sometimes more when there's special elections.
Officerrob
Banned
Because that's working out so well for the Republicans...
This is nothing but Tea Party litmus test type of thinking
Jokes on them for defunding it.
It's not about seeing the world burn, it's about sending a message to the candidates as to what we want in a candidate in 4 years. I'd argue that Kerry's middle-of-the-road, milquetoast message in 2004 failing to secure a good Dem turnout is what sparked the more left leaning Obama/Clinton in 2008.
I suppose it's fortunate that most of the swing states actually get to vote in the Primary so their voices are heard on the matter. People like us who live in true-blue states that vote late basically have no recourse of the matter. I get the luxury to vote for whoever I feel is best for the job. Feel bad for people in Ohio/Florida/Pennsylvania who don't get to vote with their conscious without feeling guilty.
Not sure if I buy this timeline. The Southern Strategy came into play in under half that amount of time. I think if the DNC really pushed hard they could get some top-down level changes to electrify those underrepresented to actually participate in the democratic process. Unfortunately, it would likely require some sort of overhaul to the electoral process, which would in turn require control of a decent portion of the Federal government, which would require settling for whoever can get elected, who in turn will have no incentive to actually reform elections as it threatens their hegemony.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
Passive aggressive much? Just read the article that was posted in the Atlantic about Obama's foreign policy approach. Instead of basing your opinion on some debates read about the past to get a better sense of prologue.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
It's cool for everyone else to suffer for your message then huh
Already Torn
Banned
It's to expose how super delegates mess with democracy, man.
Where in this article does it say Hillary doesn't care about domestic policies and is just interested in international like you claimed?
Because Hillary has staked all of her elections primarily on domestic policies here entire career. The central policy of her entire career has been healthcare front and center.
Vincent Grayson
Member
This is basically where I fall. I don't "like" Hillary, and would prefer Bernie for sure, but I strongly suspect that Hillary as president will be very similar to Obama in terms of the reality of what she does/does not accomplish, and that's perfectly fine, and a lot better than anything the GOP or Trump might do.
My thoughts exactly. With what's left she the only choice.
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