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[ryutaro's mama]

The irony.

I said it was nothing to begin with. The other guy kept going on about clever and saying what you wanted to say or whatever.

The whole exchange was clown shoes.

 

[StickSoldier]

The way I see it, if you know Trump has a chance to win the presidency, and you are a individual that cares for the future of this country, you do what stops him from getting that title; you vote for the Democratic nominee (Hillary).

It's not even about not wanting to vote because you don't like the candidates. If we don't stop Trump from getting the Presidency, what the fuck is going to happen to us? I'm sure that nothing good will come from him being president.

 

[WanderingWind]

Sure. Totally fair. I have some similar feelings about how the Bernie campaign has been run, quite frankly. That still wouldn't stop me from voting for him in the general if I had to.

Which is absolutely your decision to make. I notice a distinct lack of calling people a "fucking child" in your posts, which means you agree, on some level, with my position.

Being an angry shithead because people won't do exactly what you want come election day isn't going to change a damn thing. If you really, truly want diehard Bernie supporters to vote for Hillary, calling them a child and attempting to strip away their agency with various combos of insults and insinuations about their racist intentions, isn't going to work. If your intention is just rant and rage, then you're absolutely allowed to do that, obviously. But don't act like it's anything more than a tantrum.

 

[Eusis]

I forsee constructive and meaningful arguments coming from this thread.

On a serious note I'm a sanders supporter but I'll vote for Hillary in the general if she wins the nomination. Still want Bernie to win though.

This. I think I count as old enough to remember GWB's shit (and may even have been one of those burned badly by it?) and I pretty much want to take a boot to the Republican party's throat at this point. Going for Trump as president would, at best, be cutting my nose off to spite my face. At worst, it'd make Bush a fond memory.

So yeah, I'd settle for Hillary and hope for better luck in 8 years. 4 years of a person like Trump is likely to be too risky to chance.

 

[cdyhybrid]

The way I see it, if you know Trump has a chance to win the presidency, and you are a individual that cares for the future of this country, you do what stops him from getting that title; you vote for the Democratic nominee (Hillary).

It's not even about not wanting to vote because you don't like the candidates. If we don't stop Trump from getting Presidency, what the fuck is going to happen to us? I'm sure that nothing good will come from him being president.

Bingo.

Which is absolutely your decision to make. I notice a distinct lack of calling people a "fucking child" in your posts, which means you agree, on some level, with my position.

Being an angry shithead because people won't do exactly what you want come election day isn't going to change a damn thing. If you really, truly want diehard Bernie supporters to vote for Hillary, calling them a child and attempting to strip away their agency with various combos of insults and insinuations about their racist intentions, isn't going to work. If your intention is just rant and rage, then you're absolutely allowed to do that, obviously. But don't act like it's anything more than a tantrum.

I think the disconnect is the idea that it takes someone convincing them to vote for Hillary in the first place.

 

[Brutalitops]

I read your posts. I have no idea why someone would want to see someone they don't like, win simply for the lulz.

It's odd, imo.

So you read them and still came to that conclusion. You may be beyond a discussion it seems.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Which is absolutely your decision to make. I notice a distinct lack of calling people a "fucking child" in your posts, which means you agree, on some level, with my position.

Being an angry shithead because people won't do exactly what you want come election day isn't going to change a damn thing. If you really, truly want diehard Bernie supporters to vote for Hillary, calling them a child and attempting to strip away their agency with various combos of insults and insinuations about their racist intentions, isn't going to work. If your intention is just rant and rage, then you're absolutely allowed to do that, obviously. But don't act like it's anything more than a tantrum.

Do you feel flipping from Sanders to Trump is an intelligent thing to do?

 

[Pandaman]

Since you didn't include quote tags I can't go back and see how people responded to that post. I would hope negatively.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=195033221&postcount=7169

The post received two responses, one person saying he was being ridiculous and one person pointing out that hillary supports accuse bernie supporters of doing the same thing.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=195043349&postcount=7237
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=195033506&postcount=7172

 

[Nickle]

Sure, fair enough. Then the next page of that thread is filled with Hillary supporters telling him he's totally wrong, which is kind of my point. And also Huelen telling him to stick to his guns.

The next page had like 2 Hillary supporters criticizing him.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

So you read them and still came to that conclusion. You may be beyond a discussion it seems.

Yeah, how could I possibly come to that conclusion?

Man, some of the posts ITT really make me want to see Trump win. It would be a sight to behold on left leaning sites like GAF and r/politics, and I say that as someone firmly in the centre.

 

[IrishNinja]

The problem is very much wrapped in how Hillary has run her entire campaign. Early and continuing criticism about how she was framing her run was that she was owed votes. That it was her time. Her supporters continue to use that narrative, well after she refocused when it became clear that Sanders was a real threat.

So, now, when it comes down to brass tacks and people who outright dislike her are being told that yes, you owe her your vote, it's extremely galling. You can sit here and argue about right or wrong all day long, but that won't change a thing. If anything, it galvanizes the anti-Hillary crowd. Because all along, they've been told that voting for Hillary is just the right thing to do and any other vote is wasteful.

yeah, i can see how that messaging is condescending/shitty, and things not going bernie's way is likewise also shitty for his supporters

are you really gonna tell me these feelings should weigh heavily on one's heart when you're at the polls and its her or trump, though? because again, while angelus said it far better than the OP, you're talking about fanbases & feelings when an out & out bigot is your other option at the polls, with multiple SCOTUS nominations on the table. they're your priorities to choose, of course, but they're odd ones.

And also Huelen telling him to stick to his guns.

big surprises here

 

[WanderingWind]

Do you feel flipping from Sanders to Trump is an intelligent thing to do?

Not what we're talking about in the slightest. We're talking about Sanders supporters not voting for Trump. If you want to pretend that's a direct support of Trump, so be it. But what you're really saying is that you must vote for Hillary. Which again, I don't believe to be useful. Explain why people should vote for your candidate without using empty rhetoric. Provide detailed lists of her policies. Explain why they'll be good for X, Y and Z demographics.

No, you won't convince everybody. But yelling at people and calling them racist children is going to convince nobody.

yeah, i can see how that messaging is condescending/shitty, and things not going bernie's way is likewise also shitty for his supporters

are you really gonna tell me these feelings should weigh heavily on one's heart when you're at the polls and its her or trump, though? because again, while angelus said it far better than the OP, you're talking about fanbases & feelings when an out & out bigot is your other option at the polls, with multiple SCOTUS nominations on the table. they're your priorities to choose, of course, but they're odd ones.

People aren't robots. Emotions will factor into every decision they make. Ignoring that is destructive. Logically, if somebody calls you a fucking prick, it shouldn't affect anything. But the vast majority of people will have an emotional response to it. And pissing people off will drive them to action, even if that action is against their own long-term best interests.

 

[Future]

Which is absolutely your decision to make. I notice a distinct lack of calling people a "fucking child" in your posts, which means you agree, on some level, with my position.

Being an angry shithead because people won't do exactly what you want come election day isn't going to change a damn thing. If you really, truly want diehard Bernie supporters to vote for Hillary, calling them a child and attempting to strip away their agency with various combos of insults and insinuations about their racist intentions, isn't going to work. If your intention is just rant and rage, then you're absolutely allowed to do that, obviously. But don't act like it's anything more than a tantrum.

When people passively allow trump to become president then people will call them shitheads. I mean fuck man... People around the world think it's ridiculous that trump actually has a chance. And right here on this forum I am listening to the flawed logic that actually could make this a reality. It's absurd

It's not always about voting for your perfect candidate. You can hate both candidates.... One of them is still becoming president. So if you hate one a bit less you vote for them to get the lesser evil.

It's like if someone was pointing a gun and a bazooka at you and all you had was a gun. You can shut down and get blown up and shot at the same time, or you could shoot the guy with the bazooka and hope you survive the gun. That is the only choice, and pretending there is another is just laughable to me. Especially if people agree trump is the worse bet

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Not what we're talking about in the slightest. We're talking about Sanders supporters not voting for Trump. If you want to pretend that's a direct support of Trump, so be it. But what you're really saying is that you must vote for Hillary. Which again, I don't believe to be useful. Explain why people should vote for your candidate without using empty rhetoric. Provide detailed lists of her policies. Explain why they'll be good for X, Y and Z demographics.

No, you won't convince everybody. But yelling at people and calling them racist children is going to convince nobody.

Again, do you feel like flipping from Sanders to Trump is an intelligent thing to do?

 

[MIMIC]

The way I see it, if you know Trump has a chance to win the presidency, and you are a individual that cares for the future of this country, you do what stops him from getting that title; you vote for the Democratic nominee (Hillary).

It's not even about not wanting to vote because you don't like the candidates. If we don't stop Trump from getting the Presidency, what the fuck is going to happen to us? I'm sure that nothing good will come from him being president.

Well we can start by not adding to his publicity and giving him free advertisement by making a zillion threads about him and all of crazy things he says. We know he's crazy. It's just pumping more air into the balloon.

 

[Makai]

You guys are too uptight about voting. Sorry your team depends on high turnout, but that doesn't mean you should get mad at any random individual that is dissatisfied with their available options.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Not what we're talking about in the slightest. We're talking about Sanders supporters not voting for Trump. If you want to pretend that's a direct support of Trump, so be it. But what you're really saying is that you must vote for Hillary. Which again, I don't believe to be useful. Explain why people should vote for your candidate without using empty rhetoric. Provide detailed lists of her policies. Explain why they'll be good for X, Y and Z demographics.

No, you won't convince everybody. But yelling at people and calling them racist children is going to convince nobody.

If the choice is Hillary or Trump (and let's be honest, that's probably what it's going to be - there's no realistic 3rd-party candidate), not voting for Hillary is an admission that you're okay with the potential scenario of Trump winning.

Yeah, it sucks. That's reality.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Well we can start by not adding to his publicity and giving him free advertisement by making a zillion threads about him and all of crazy things he says. We know he's crazy. It's just pumping more air into the balloon.

Ignore him and he will go away, just like racism!

 

[VariantX]

I don't understand anyone wanting to vote for trump be they for Hillary or bernie right now, if you want to make a damn point then write in your dog or your cat, don't give a vote to a guy who is exploiting the worst aspects of America just to win an election. Whether trump wins or not he's already done plenty of damage as it is.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

.

Why does she have the queen pesona?

 

[Valhelm]

Ignore him and he will go away, just like racism!

That's kind of a false equivalency. Discussions about Trump, much like discussions about racism, are awesome and need to happen. But parading Trump's every move gives him a huge amount of free promotion, thus bringing his message toward voters who might have otherwise not received it.

 

[tell yourself.]

if i was voting in america i would be dissatisfied with my options between Hilary and Trump.

Both are way too right for me.

 

[IrishNinja]

Well we can start by not adding to his publicity and giving him free advertisement by making a zillion threads about him and all of crazy things he says. We know he's crazy. It's just pumping more air into the balloon.

i'm perfectly okay with saying GAF & like forum threads are not gonna have any direct influence on trump voters, perhaps aside from huelen

You guys are too uptight about voting. Sorry your team depends on high turnout, but that doesn't mean you should get mad at any random individual that is dissatisfied with their available options.

boy id feel better if this sentiment was more common with cruz/rubio/etc voters, but let's be honest: the GOP is traditionally far better at falling in line at the ballot box
perhaps that's why they're so shitty at compromising after that point; they used all their stats where it mattered

if i was voting in america i would be dissatisfied with my options between Hilary and Trump.

Both are way too right for me.

as an american, i highly agree
still, on our limited spectrum? world of difference between the two

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Not an american, but I've been voting for years for a party I dislike simply because not voting at all would only strenghten the right-wing party in my country. To each his own I guess, but I hope people realise that not voting can have just as many consequences as voting.

 

[cdyhybrid]

if i was voting in america i would be dissatisfied with my options between Hilary and Trump.

Both are way too right for me.

Good luck finding a legitimate threat to win a presidential election that's perfect.

Bernie still clings to his naive "fixing the economy will end racism" bullshit and Hillary has said more dumb shit in the past month than I have in the last ten years.

Voting in this country is about the lesser evil.

 

[Future]

You guys are too uptight about voting. Sorry your team depends on high turnout, but that doesn't mean you should get mad at any random individual that is dissatisfied with their available options.

If someone truly believes both candidates are equally terrible, I'd challenge it, but I'd understand. It's their prerogative.

If people agree trump is w worse candidate by far, and still refuse to vote for Hillary, then yeah I get mad. People like that are unfortunately the problem and we can't do shit about it. Might as well be endorsing trump if you passively allow him to win by not voting against

 

[ryutaro's mama]

That's kind of a false equivalency. Discussions about Trump, much like discussions about racism, are awesome and need to happen. But parading Trump's every move gives him a huge amount of free promotion, thus bringing his message toward voters who might have otherwise not received it.

There are those who thought starting a thread for every instance of police misconduct was excessive and that it did nothing but further outrage. Making threads about those shootings raised awareness and dare I say it, a few people on this very forum came around.

Trump's fuckery constantly being exposed isn't inherently bad if it raises awareness.

 

[WanderingWind]

Again, do you feel like flipping from Sanders to Trump is an intelligent thing to do?

I don't understand why you continue to ask this. It is not something I'm interesting in talking about. Please ask somebody who is if this is a point you need answered. It's not something I'm talking about at this moment. It has nothing to do with my point.

If the choice is Hillary or Trump (and let's be honest, that's probably what it's going to be - there's no realistic 3rd-party candidate), not voting for Hillary is an admission that you're okay with the potential scenario of Trump winning.

Yeah, it sucks. That's reality.

Yes, I'm not disagreeing with what I feel is also an inevitability. But saying "not voting means you're secretly racist" isn't going to get people to vote. Do folks really not understand how human beings work?

 

[Makai]

boy id feel better if this sentiment was more common with cruz/rubio/etc voters, but let's be honest: the GOP is traditionally far better at falling in line at the ballot box
perhaps that's why they're so shitty at compromising after that point; they used all their stats where it mattered

By all indications, Republican defection will be absolutely massive this time around.

 

[BouncyFrag]

That's kind of a false equivalency. Discussions about Trump, much like discussions about racism, are awesome and need to happen. But parading Trump's every move gives him a huge amount of free promotion, thus bringing his message toward voters who might have otherwise not received it.

Donald Trump has earned $2 billion in free media coverage, study shows.

 

[cdyhybrid]

By all indications, Republican defection will be absolutely massive this time around.

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

If you think "I don't care who wins" I can totally understand why you wouldn't vote. You don't care. That's not great but it's alright.

 

[IrishNinja]

By all indications, Republican defection will be absolutely massive this time around.

I'll believe it when I see it.

exactly this - hope you're right, but barring them trying to deny him the nom (which would be glorious), i just don't see it

 

[ryutaro's mama]

By all indications, Republican defection will be absolutely massive this time around.

I don't know how much you can trust whatever source you saw this in.

I could see Republicans skipping a POTUS vote and voting down ticket rather than vote for Hillary.

 

[MIMIC]

Ignore him and he will go away, just like racism!

This really isn't the same thing. Without typing a wall of text, I'll just say that one was here long before the other and will be long after the other is gone. I think it's OK to ignore one of them (or at least stop giving unnecessary advertisement, like "Trump's Stupid Tweet #220")

 

[Makai]

I'll believe it when I see it.

GOP establishment is already making contingency plans on how they can throw the White House while keeping the Senate. A lot of people seem to prefer dissolving the party over nominating Trump.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

This really isn't the same thing. Without typing a wall of text, I'll just say that one was here long before the other and will be long after the other is gone. I think it's OK to ignore one of them

My point is, ignoring Trump on GAF isn't gonna make him go away anymore than ignoring racism will make it go away.

 

[cdyhybrid]

GOP establishment is already making contingency plans on how they can throw the White House while keeping the Senate. A lot of people seem to prefer dissolving the party over nominating Trump.

Again, I'll believe it when I see it.

I'm not convinced that the GOP would rather burn it all down over riding with American Hitler.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

This really isn't the same thing. Without typing a wall of text, I'll just say that one was here long before the other and will be long after the other is gone. I think it's OK to ignore one of them (or at least stop giving unnecessary advertisement)

That wall of text just got 10 feet higher!

Spoiler

pardon the joke, trying to diffuse this heated conversation.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I don't understand why you continue to ask this. It is not something I'm interesting in talking about. Please ask somebody who is if this is a point you need answered. It's not something I'm talking about at this moment. It has nothing to do with my point.

You're point's pretty hollow when you come in condescending people while simultaneously chastising people for being condescending.

The OP was not about trying to change people's hearts and minds, it was an expression of frustration, and so were many others.

There are annoying supporters of both candidates, and some of those supporters have said that they'll flip to Trump if their candidate doesn't get the nomination. It's a fundamentally stupid position to take and quite frankly not worthy of being coddled because even if you subtract Trump's bigotry, which has a history extending far beyond the start of the presidential bid, he says absolutely nothing of value. Even his health plan is cobbled together from other politicians, and extremely short-sighted to boot. To me, supporting Trump requires insulation to reality too thick to break through and a lot of other people feel the same way, especially minorities who he goes out of his way to antagonize, and who not coincidentally get tired of being told we have to win people over to be treated like human beings.

The poster who you stepped in for admitted that he doesn't care about Trump's other planks because he feels like that health plan is good. It doesn't "erase his identity" to point that out as not caring about the rest of Trump's platform as it pertains to minorities at large.

 

[WanderingWind]

Again, I'll believe it when I see it.

I'm not convinced that the GOP would rather burn it all down over riding with American Hitler.

Yeah, people are really underestimating how deeply the GOP hates the Clintons. It's like the old money of political hate. There is no ends they won't go to see their dynasty ended once and for all.

You're point's pretty hollow when you come in condescending people while simultaneously chastising people for being condescending.

The OP was not about trying to change people's hearts and minds, it was an expression of frustration, and so were many others.

There are annoying supporters of both candidates, and some of those supporters have said that they'll flip to Trump if their candidate doesn't get the nomination. It's a fundamentally stupid position to take and quite frankly not worthy of being coddled because even if you subtract Trump's bigotry, which has a history extending far beyond the start of the presidential bid, he says absolutely nothing of value. Even his health plan is cobbled together from other politicians, and extremely short-sighted to boot. To me, supporting Trump requires insulation to reality too thick to break through and a lot of other people feel the same way, especially minorities who he goes out of his way to antagonize, and who not coincidentally get tired of being told we have to win people over to be treated like human beings.

The poster who you stepped in for admitted that he doesn't care about Trump's other planks because he feels like that health plan is good. It doesn't "erase his identity" to point that out as not caring about the rest of Trump's platform as it pertains to minorities at large.

None of this has anything to do with your repeated question. And most of this I've already addressed. Feel free to ask specific questions if you want further clarification.

 

[Makai]

Again, I'll believe it when I see it.

I'm not convinced that the GOP would rather burn it all down over riding with American Hitler.

It's happening right now! Unless you think everybody's going to change their mind on #NeverTrump in three months.

 

[Cameron122]

If Bernie does not get the nom, I'll vote, but I will be disheartened.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I voted Liberal too, and I oscillate between NDP and Liberal depending on who best represents me at the time. The glory of the parliamentary system! And Harper wasn't as bad as any GOPer this election.

I would rather live in Canada under Harper than America under Clinton.

That's insane. Harper is so far right of Clinton

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Not what we're talking about in the slightest. We're talking about Sanders supporters not voting for Trump. If you want to pretend that's a direct support of Trump, so be it. But what you're really saying is that you must vote for Hillary. Which again, I don't believe to be useful. Explain why people should vote for your candidate without using empty rhetoric. Provide detailed lists of her policies. Explain why they'll be good for X, Y and Z demographics.

You should vote for Hillary because she is the lesser of two evils, if you need a breakdown of her political views hit google.

Honestly, in this day and age it seems rather redundant for me to list it for you.

It isn't open rhetoric to say that the next president is going to shape the SCOTUS for a generation, affirm/rollback ACA/marriage equality/immigration reform/income inequality/etc.

If Bernie does not get the nom, I'll vote, but I will be disheartened.

Welcome to the sane but saddened club.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

If Bernie does not get the nom, I'll vote, but I will be disheartened.

Just like Hillary voters were in 2008 when Obama took the nom. You can't always win.

Yeah, it sucks.

Spoiler

I wanted Biden in 2016!

 

[cdyhybrid]

Yeah, people are really underestimating how deeply the GOP hates the Clintons. It's like the old money of political hate. There is no ends they won't go to see their dynasty ended once and for all.



None of this has anything to do with your repeated question.

Yep, this is much deeper than this election cycle. This is shit that goes back more than a generation.

It's happening right now! Unless you think everybody's going to change their mind on #NeverTrump in three months.

That only makes sense if you think #NeverTrump was ever going to stand up against a Democratic alternative. I don't believe that for a second. It's easy to say #NeverTrump if you're a hardcore conservative when you've got Cruz and/or Rubio to fall back to. When you have to fall back to Hillary or Bernie is when we see if you're really about that.

 

[Makai]

That only makes sense if you think #NeverTrump was ever going to stand up against a Democratic alternative. I don't believe that for a second. It's easy to say #NeverTrump if you're a hardcore conservative when you've got Cruz and/or Rubio to fall back to. When you have to fall back to Hillary or Bernie is when we see if you're really about that.

There are Senators and Governors who have pledged to abstain or vote for Hillary if Trump is the nominee.

 

[Joey Fox]

Once again the discussion constantly veers away from Hillary's lack of integrity. That has been proven to anyone who attempts to research it, and bothers me extremely how anyone puts up with it.

Putting up with a political party that elects someone with so much smoke of corruption, without any competition, doesn't deserve my consideration. I'm not at all Hillary would have America's best interests ahead of all other countries even.

 

[Wilsongt]

I can't with people who say they don't vote. Voting in this country is increasingly becoming a privilege and not a right for some, and those who say they refuse to exercise that right for whatever reason or another are doing a disservice for those who want to vote, but can't because of stupid laws.