Kotaku: Sony is working on a PS4.5; briefing devs on plans for a more powerful PS4
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
What I find interesting is that many people that are complaining about it, are fine with PS3 to PS4 upgrade path, just in 3 years from now.
Thats just crazy since PS3 to PS4 had no compatibility whatsoever, while this solution would give everything to everyone, if not for people that have a problem with someone else playing the same game with better graphics.
This reminds me of a guy I talked to recently and he complained about Note 3 being released 2-3 months after Note 2... so I asked him if existence of Note 3 makes his Note 2 function any differently... his answer was of course not... "but I dont have the latest one anymore". Since he was 15 years younger than me, it left impression of him being immature because nobody can have all the latest stuff. Whatever TV, cell phone, car, laptop, watch, heck anything you own, there will be always something better few months later. There is no way escaping that, and the jealousy is frankly childish.
Ghostbound
Member
Can't say that I'm really interested in this myself. Consoles are a secondary platform for me, so there's no way I'm shelling out the cash to play what few exclusives they have at a higher fidelity. I can see how the people who have been wanting more power out of these systems would be excited though.
breadtruck
Member
This is not the way to do it.
vivftp
Member
Assuming all of this is true, and 4K games, or 1080p games with better graphical assets becomes a thing for these new consoles, I do wonder how they'll handle distributing them. I mean, do they have a physical disc for sale of each version of the game? Or put both on the one disc? How about digital? If there's one version for both consoles, does that mean those on the lower end console are forced to use up hard drive space for assets they'll never be able to use?
matrix-cat
Member
Going from 1080p to 4K wouldn't just be a 'slight' upgrade. That's huge. That's a bigger jump in pixel numbers than SD to 720p or 720p to 1080p ever was, and those were whole new generations. A $650 980Ti struggles at 4K. I wouldn't even have expected the PS5/XB2 to hit 4K, assuming they ever came to be.
I can't see it being viable to get that much grunt into a $400 box for another couple of years at the earliest, and at that point why wouldn't you just do a PS5?
I can't see it being viable to get that much grunt into a $400 box for another couple of years at the earliest, and at that point why wouldn't you just do a PS5?
Given that their lone competition in the space, Microsoft, appears to be going in this direction, Sony would be foolish to at least not explore an upgraded PS4. If Microsoft's product became successful and they had nothing along those lines ready, that would be negligent on their part.
Sony's current sales show that being the most powerful console available obviously means something to the marketplace. Ceding that advantage would have some significance.
I suspect their research will lead them to discover that it is more advantageous to just make PS5 more quickly than they expected.
Sony's current sales show that being the most powerful console available obviously means something to the marketplace. Ceding that advantage would have some significance.
I suspect their research will lead them to discover that it is more advantageous to just make PS5 more quickly than they expected.
You're right, there is no hate, only jealousy like the poster you were replying to said.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
Pray tell. Tell me why I shouldn't be allowed to buy a PS 4.5 so I can play Rocket League at 4k resolutions on my 4k tv. It makes no difference to you does it? I"m not getting a competitive advantage am I?
To be fair, the 0.5% of games that worked with enhancements are by definition forwards compatible, the other 99.5% are just backwards compatible. We can just say that it had a very small library. A bit like Supergrafx, I think that only had a library of five exlcusives, and two forwards compatible games, apart from that it had to rely on backwards compatibility for it's software support.
Well, it'd be less than 0.5% actually, because that'd include the games that wouldn't work without it.
The rest of the library isn't really "backwards compatible" though. The same Saturn console is playing the game the same as it would without the cart. It's as backwards compatible as if I'd stuffed a piece of paper in the slot instead. It simply wasn't used at all (it'd really be expecting to find storage space for saves there).
The PS4 would be considered forwards-compatible with the PS4.5 simply because the PS4.5 wouldn't have its own games library. Forwards compatibility is actually a term I don't really like, as it really only means that the new machine has the same library as the previous machine. If it has a selection of games that it can play, but the old machine can't then it's simply backwards compatible. Much like a PS2 is backwards compatible with a PS1, but a PS1 isn't forwards compatible with a PS2. In order for that to be true, the PS2 lineup would have to equal the PS1 lineup.. which is what's being suggested with these .5 console revisions. Even if only 10 people ever bought the PS4.5, it would likely still be a better purchase than a 32X ever was, because pretty much anything that massively drops frames on a PS4 today would likely run consistently at the game's framrerate cap on more powerful hardware.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Look its cool so many people ate excited and some people in here are indeed jumping on the hyperbole train. Its perfectly reasonable that people have reservations,doubts,fears. Consoles are not phones its a terrible comparison, phones have been doing the upgrade thing for years now this is a new step therefore everyone wont jump on the excitement train just yet at least not without knowing more. All these comparisons dont work these are consoles they have pretty much been handled the same way for generations so changing something so big will take time for others and i can completely understand that it doesn't make anyone childish.
BlastProcessing
Member
He said Open Source and I don't think Linux gaming cuts it right now.
Big Green Anus
Member
Do you consider $499 in the "two jobs" price?
urgh, thats not how it works. There is no reason anymore why PS4 and PS5 cant run exactly the same game with significantly different graphics... and thats how it is going to be too.
There is no reason for them to cut off PS4 when PS5 comes out, it will keep being the same platform, just nicer graphics.
kenji_sama
Member
If the rumor is true, Sony should follow this:
- Release PS4 slim in September (cut 50 or 100$).
- PSVR launch in Oct
- PS4.5 next year and drop PS4's price at 199$ or 249$.
you say upgraded so I hope you don't mean you already had a PS4 and then bought a new one for 1tb. that seems foolish when you can just upgrade the HD....
PlayStation Type C wasn't just something egm printed, it was a major rumor that did the rounds online as well.
i.e.
http://www.ign.com/articles/1997/02/28/new-information-on-the-playstation-c
I believe the idea of an upgraded PS4 is nothing more than R&D exploration and most likely will not come to market.
If anything, I think it is more reasonable that we'd see PS5 in 2018 or 2019.
i.e.
http://www.ign.com/articles/1997/02/28/new-information-on-the-playstation-c
I believe the idea of an upgraded PS4 is nothing more than R&D exploration and most likely will not come to market.
If anything, I think it is more reasonable that we'd see PS5 in 2018 or 2019.
You don't see anything wrong with consoles attempting to do the same thing? As I've stated earlier in the thread, PCs can tweak their settings to hit target framerates desired.
Are they gonna start allowing us to tweak everything from ambient occlusion to anti aliasing now? Then this leads to my other point: isn't this just a PC that can do less than a PC?
Nuno Pinto
Member
So much this.
If it happens, it opens a really bad precedent, especially if it's done by Sony (market leader). 5-6 year cycle is perfect for consoles IMO.
Sony and Ms should bust into the PC hardware scene..
Actually that makes no sense it would just be console branded amd gpus..
Like all along?
Gunslinger
Member
So basically Sony is going on phone route? Keep making minor update frequently instead of massive upgrade every 7-10 years?how you guys feel about that?I am not sure how I feel about it. At one hand it's good in a sense that people who don't buy the new console can keep playing in a interior machine but On the other hand expense goes up if you are looking to upgrade frequently.
DangerMouse
Member
Yeah.
I would rather buy a new console every 3-4 years with updated internals that maintains compatibility with all previous software than waiting 6-7 years and completely losing access to my software library on that new console.
With a verified insider already commenting that it is happening this year, those quotes mean far less now.
David Ricardo
Member
7 years for this consoles is too much, but why not 5?
Coming from last gen, I see a lot of people in other forums expect this gen to last 7-8 years as the last one. Wise people in Gaf was saying since launch, and I agreed, that we would see successors by 2018/19. I knew there would be a new console by 2018, the loser would have a great incentive to start next gen early and try to change things. But I never expected Sony to release a new console by 2016.
I was OK with releasing a successor as early as 2018 because I expected PS5 to be fully backwards compatible and, even though I planned to buy the PS5 at launch, I supposed that there would be a cross gen period of 1-2 years where games would still work in the PS4 for those who weren't in a hurry to shift generations, while better looking counterparts would come to PS5.
That would allow developers enough time to extract as much performance as possible from the PS4.
But releasing a new console in 2016, just 3 years after PS4 launch, seems too soon to me.
In the past, when you bought a console, you were making a long term investment. You bought a piece of hardware that you knew wasn't as powerful as a good PC, but you knew, in time, developers would extract all the performance it could give so you would in the long term get to run games that more powerful PC hardware wouldn't even be able to run. That was the advantage the consoles had. Running all the latest games at a decent enough quality for longer than any other hardware.
But now, with generations 3 years long, I'm worried that we will never get all the performance the console can offer. So, actually, a console will just be a less powerful PC. It will run games worse at launch, it will run games worse during the generation, and a subtitute will come that will render it obsolete as fast as if it was a PC. So, what is the purpose of buying a console now?
Obliterator
Member
I believe everything Kotaku wrote is legit.
But I'm sorry I just don't believe Zoetis. There's no way a true 4k machine is launching in 2016 at an affordable price tag. The math just isn't there unless there has been a major GPU breakthrough we don't know about. Which is very unlikely
But I'm sorry I just don't believe Zoetis. There's no way a true 4k machine is launching in 2016 at an affordable price tag. The math just isn't there unless there has been a major GPU breakthrough we don't know about. Which is very unlikely
Not saying you haven't nice to meet another sega fan
But in my eyes it is comparable it's just like I said it was the 90's and sega was crashing hard by the time Saturn and 32X came out. Also there were a couple Sega CD games that were also on Genesis that looked, sounded better than their cartridge brothers.
I'm just saying that sega is an extreme case example.
Hi, nice to meet you!
I get what you're saying, but yea I don't think the comparison really works, and Sega is far too extreme an example to be worth using for something like this. Let's consider what I said about a PS2 being backwards compatible with the PS1, but the PS1 not being forwards compatible with the PS1. To turn this into a 32X like scenario, what would basically have to happen would be that you'd own a PS1, and then you'd have to buy a PS2 connect it to your PS1, and have them both powered up at the same time. You'd plug your controller into the PS1, and put the disc into the PS2, and play. This is basically what a 32X was doing. Sure you'd still be able to play PS1 games this way... but you can probably see how stupid this all seems in comparison to simply having a better version of the same console, right?
Well, it'd be less than 0.5% actually, because that'd include the game that wouldn't work without it.
The rest of the library isn't really "backwards compatible" though. The same Saturn console is playing the game the same as it would without the cart. It's as backwards compatible as it I'd stuff a piece of paper in the slot instead. It simply wasn't used at all (it'd really be expecting to find storage space for saves there).
The PS4 would be considered forwards-compatible with the PS4.5 simply because the PS4.5 wouldn't have its own games library. Forwards compatibility is actually a term I don't really like, as it really only means that the new machine has the same library as the previous machine. If it has a selection of games that it can play, but the old machine can't then it's simply backwards compatible. Much like a PS2 is backwards compatible with a PS1, but a PS1 isn't forwards compatible with a PS2. In order for that to be true, the PS2 lineup would have to equal the PS1 lineup.. which is what's being suggested with these .5 console revisions. Even if only 10 people ever bought the PS4.5, it would likely still be a better purchase than a 32X ever was, because pretty much anything the massively drops frames on a PS4 today would likely run consistently at the game's framrerate cap on more powerful hardware.
We're getting into symantics here, but I look at it from the software side; if the software is programmed to run on more than one specification of hardware with different levels of performance on each, then it's forward compatible. From the software's point of view stock Saturn, Saturn+1MB RAM / Saturn+4MB RAM are three different platforms. Whether the hardware used upgrades to achieve this, or it was already built in isn't really relevant to the software.
This can't be coming soon at all. Shit sounds dumb. PSVR is on its way. So u mean to tell me Sony going to release another console the same year with nothing developed for it. And oh yea they do already have a system selling like hot cakes. No F'n way this shit happens this year or even next year imo
dano1
A Sheep
So true. I hope they do this ever 2 years. As long as the games work on old and new units why should anyone care. People that couldn't afford a Ps4 can now buy the older version. Win Win
Much easier news to swallow if so.
Agreed, a massive boost to the GPU would be needed to achieve 4K. Like I said earlier, something close to a GTX 970. There is no way in hell Sony can fit that in a console at an affordable price. And this doesn't include very likely RAM and CPU upgrades. Something just doesn't add up overall.
if the problem is that someone else has better looking game than you, then it is childish of course... Should i hate it if someone has 65" OLED while I game on my poor 58" LCD?
I would say the main problem with consoles in the past was that they were fixed to the point of next console requiring them to start all over again - completely new hardware required completely new OS which required completely new development tools. There is no need for that to happen ever again. It made everyone's life hard, including ours.
If we see this as what it should be - a painless upgrade path with full compatibility between both PS4 and PS4.5, then it changes everything.
I would be extremely happy if my PS3 that sits under desk somewhere could run PS4 OS and PS4 games, just at much lower settings. That would be awesome. And who wouldnt be happy if PS3 games could run on PS4?
-hadouken
Member
I don't think it will be "true" 4K. I think we'll see a decent boost to aid VR whilst adding 4K upscaling for regular games and 4K Bluray.
xaosslug
Member
almost as big as the Destructoid NX controller thread in a 3rd the time... GAF stays doing Soony's R&D for them.
Obliterator
Member
Yeah something along the lines of a 770 range makes a lot more sense. Its a 3.2 TF GPU and much more cost effective. They could actually launch a console with one of those in it (well the AMD equivalent) for $400 by the end of 2016 probably. But for 4k they would need a 970 minimum and thats just not happening. 2017 possibly with the new APUs and HBM 2.0 its feasible maybe for like $500-$600
pixellated_man
Member
This is exactly how I feel. If we are taking the Kotaku article at face value (I see little reason not to) then this upgrade / successor to ps4 is not coming any earlier than end of next year. That means the ps4 has lasted 4 years - same as the original Xbox and only 1-2 years less than some (most?) consoles have in the past.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
But your comparisons arent making sense in this case. All im saying is the usual generation is ine console until the next one. If i buy a 40" inch tv and you buy a 4k tv i can't get mad we bought different things But what im saying is when people bought the console most dont expect to have the option to upgrade and while yes it is an option, i can understand why some could potentially feel uneasy with it because it never happened before. Its up to sony to explain it enough tho
But in this case, the whole point about Sony pushing 4K TV's with this new revision doesn't make sense, since a GTX 770 is nowhere near powerful enough for 4K. Unless it's just some sort of upscaling, which raises another question. Shouldn't the current existing PS4 be able to manage 4K upscaling too? To clarify, I mean same specs, but maybe with an added processor to handle the upscaling. There are just some things that don't add up.
Pokemaniac
Member
almost as big as the Destructoid NX controller thread in a 3rd the time... GAF stays doing Soony's R&D for them.
Difference is, this rumor has insider confirmation, while the NX controller thing not only has none, but is currently believed to be fake.
wapplew
Member
PS4 owner like me not happy because PS3 holding back my games!