LostDonkey
Member
I give up lol people are telling me all kinds of different things.
I was linked to this video earlier: https://youtu.be/FIQvQeGCkeU
And he clearly states that the bandwidth in 1.4 is not enough for 1080p 120hz.
So which is it lol
Kotaku: Sony is working on a PS4.5; briefing devs on plans for a more powerful PS4
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
I give up lol people are telling me all kinds of different things.
I was linked to this video earlier: https://youtu.be/FIQvQeGCkeU
And he clearly states that the bandwidth in 1.4 is not enough for 1080p 120hz.
So which is it lol
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
There is no shifting of dev resources. Teams arent going to be split between a PS4 and PS4.5 version. Its the same hardware making the same calls. Comparing it to a last gen platform is silly. Especially when the example you use is of a game that released in those consoles 9th and 10th year.
Lys Skygge
Member
If true, I can't imagine it being anything more than a PS4 slim with 4K output (limited to movies and games that'll allow it). With Sony releasing 4K BluRays they most certainly are working on a PS4 that can play them. What it won't do is make games look prettier. I'd imagine there are a few games that are limited enough graphically that 4K output with the PS4s current specs is possible, the only thing holding the PS4 back from doing so is that its output is only limited to 1080p.
I wouldn't expect games like The Order 1886 or Uncharted 4 to run at 4K anytime soon.
This is all speculation btw.
I wouldn't expect games like The Order 1886 or Uncharted 4 to run at 4K anytime soon.
This is all speculation btw.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
PS3/360 are last generation systems that are barely selling anything anymore. That is in no way comparable to PS4 and a hypothetical PS4k, which will be nowhere near the same gap in power. Read my post from before. If it's sub 499 then this thing is going to be a 4k media machine that can play indie games at 4k.
Your argument is based on a false premise. The BO3 comparison is baffling.
Yeah, these rumors have got to be a lot to absorb...
I don't know, I can't listen to it right now, I'm at work. What's his math on the bandwidth? Another thing is it appears he's talking about monitor and GPU support, where standards do apply. If there's not a proper standard defining the resolution and framerate than nothing's going to work even if the bandwidth is sufficient*. Again, the PS VR and PS4 don't have that problem.
*Not completely true, I once managed to force an Nvidia 9800 do 4K video by messing with X Windows timings when the Nvidia rep was certain it wasn't going to work. To be fair, the display was a prototype, so it didn't care about standards.
Frozone
Member
Nvm.
Uh, I'm just talking about the output. It's 8-bit RGB. Deferred buffers don't get sent out over the HDMI port last I checked.
Sure will be. If it runs of two different sets of hardware, there will be some compromises in place, both in performance on the old system and scope on the new one. It also means less hardcore tweaking to cram into a specific envelope, which worsens performance and scope across the board. It also means more costs for developers and smaller install bases. This means fewer games and worse games.
People are just going to accept that technology is changing and its accelerating faster and faster, fixed hardware itself wont be a thing in a not to distant future. I think sony saw the playing of 360 games on the xbox one and the fact that the xbox will have a library of going from the 360 to future hardware in which ever capacity it exist and wanted in on that. Hell they could port the OS thats running on the PS4 now and create a steam like service of their own. The PS4 will just serve as the entry level box into the playstation ecosystem.
LostDonkey
Member
Yeah, these rumors have got to be a lot to absorb...
I don't know, I can't listen to it right now, I'm at work. What's his math on the bandwidth? Another thing is it appears he's talking about monitor and GPU support, where standards do apply. If there's not a proper standard defining the resolution and framerate than nothing's going to work even if the bandwidth is sufficient. Again, the PS VR and PS4 don't have that problem.
Oh god maths...headache time haha
I think he's pretty much the same as you, resolution times hz rate to get the pixel rate? Then see if it fits inside the budget of the pixel clock. So 1920x1080 x60 or x120, then something about throughout potential of 3 TMDS channels.
But then he goes on to say just because it fits in this allowance doesn't mean you are definitely going to get 120hz....
My head hurts.
Chuck Norris
Banned
It is already happening with PC and is only going to get more pronounced, why worry?
PodcastFips
Member
Establishing a 4K console in a market without affordable 4K TVs and likely a market share of <1% doesn't even make sense btw. This thing is at least 5 years away.
Frozone
Member
You beat my edit! LOL!
EDIT: Although I *could* make the argument that the GPU power to do all the internals and still send out 120Hz @ 1080p could be difficult to do in practice (even if the spec does support it).
Hype? More like debate whether this will be viable or even possible with the resolution and frame rate numbers being reported on.
Lys Skygge
Member
This is why I think it'll be nothing more than allowing 4K output for movies and some games. This was taken from the first paragraph on Eurogamers Tech Analysis of Trine 2
I predict that the PS4.5 will do nothing more than allow for developers to output their games at 4K if the game will allow it. The PS4.5 wouldn't be anymore powerful than the normal PS4. It would just have more output options.
I predict that the PS4.5 will do nothing more than allow for developers to output their games at 4K if the game will allow it. The PS4.5 wouldn't be anymore powerful than the normal PS4. It would just have more output options.
Mushroom021
Member
The 4k thing has taken too Mich focus, the core concept is higher framerates and higher resolution. It also will make a big chunk of ps4 games more capable of running vr such as drive club which has vr now but must be pretty downgraded to do so since its 30fps at the moment and vr requires 60 with 0 drops. If one game does 4k or all indies than Sony can claim it does 4k content and can also do 4k blurays.
Guess you was not there when Zoetis finally 'speaked' about the upgrade
That's not wrong, you still need a decent cable and connectors if you're pushing the bandwidth, and again you still need standards support if you're using general purpose video cards and monitors. But that doesn't really affect PSVR. Like I mentioned in my edit in the earlier post, if you're doing something custom (like PSVR) all you really need is the raw bandwidth.
dreamlongdead
Member
It's funny how some people on this very forum actually were hoping for a PS4/Xbox One upgrade.
It looks like their wish could come true. It would be inconvenient for a lot of current PS4 owners who already shelled out a lot of money for the hardware.
I find it hard to believe that this rumor is true simply because it might be bad for business.
It looks like their wish could come true. It would be inconvenient for a lot of current PS4 owners who already shelled out a lot of money for the hardware.
I find it hard to believe that this rumor is true simply because it might be bad for business.
Mushroom021
Member
Zoetis hinted as much and this is what I expect. People will flock to get the old one while supplies last since its a price drop and they'll phase them out.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
There wouldn't be "ports" between console sku's, they aren't using exotic hardware anymore, if runs on one, it would run on both, except one console interation would just run it better.
LostDonkey
Member
David Ricardo
Member
I don't quite get this forward compatibility concept.
As I understand this, PS4.5 is a new PS4 with a beefier APU. The console is basically the same, so it's 100% backwards compatible. But how can a game console be forward compatible? If you make a game exclusive to the PS4.5, it won't work in the PS4 because it won't have enough ram, the GPU won't be fast enough or whatever.
What I understand makes the PS4 forward compatible is Sony forcing developers to make PS4.5 games that also work on the PS4. What Sony can't enforce is the PS4 version being good.
4-5 years I can stand, supposing every new PS will be backwards compatible and there will be a cross gen period.
Well there is going to be a weaker hardware and a beefier hardware, I suppose developers will have to optimize for each hardware independently even if they share the basic architecture. Won't they?
We have 2 consoles this gen that feature the same Apu but one has one pool of memory and a beefier GPU and the other one has ESRAM and a weaker GPU. And you can clearly see when developers target one or the other. It's very rare that a developer gets most of both of them, I expect the same from this PS4/PS4.5 situation.
Obviously the differences in architecture and power between PS3 and PS4 are much bigger, but the basc premise still stands. There are 2 hardware configs. Developers are going to have to target one. At first it's going to be the PS4. Bit, in time, as hardcore gamers and big spenders switch to PS4.5, developers will switch their efforts to PS4.5 too.
If we wanted a PC life cycle, why wouldn't we buy a PC? Games are cheaper, all PCs are backward-forward compatible, online is free, you change generations whenever you want...
Psychological Intellect
Banned
man i can't wait to buy this.
Mushroom021
Member
Weird how people don't see that. The n64 had the same thing with the expansion pack. If a game requires the new power to run it'll have to be gimped to run on ps4
Really? I see sony and samsung 4k tv's for under 1000 all the time. We're talking big screen 55+ inch too.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Yeah, 4KTVs are affordable now. I bought mine last year for $800. Vizio FTW!
PC Gaming has done this for decades. Shared architecture, hundreds of hardware configs, dozens of settings. Not enough RAM, reduce texture resolution.
By the time devs start focusing more on the PS4.5 the next consolw will be released and the people that bought the 4.5 will feel burned but the people who bought the PS4 will have had it for enough time to justify the upgrade. Its the same as owning an iphone which cycle do you want to be on. You got the non S cycle which introduces a redesign and the S cycle same design slighty better internals and a smaller new feature. So the PS4.5 or whatever it's called would b the "S" and then in 4 to 5 years the 5 will be released and the OG ps4 owners will get the big bad new machine and the PS4.5 owners will have the more affordable playstation.
I don't understand why you asked me those questions and then mention the answer at the bottom of your post. PC makes forward compatibility work just fine, same with phones and tablets.
XxRampage07xX
Member
BO3 on PS3/360 sucked because Sony, Microsoft, and developers were gradually dropping support for PS3/360 and customers were also moving to newer consoles PS4 and Xbox One. But the situation might be different with PS4 and PS4.5. Firstly, since any game that runs on PS4.5 will also run on PS4, software support for PS4 won't be dropped any time soon, at least until PS5 is announced. Secondly, PS4 will still be selling for casual customers who care more about cheap price than better graphics. Thus, install base for old PS4 will be growing, forcing developers to polish their games more in order to make more sales from the old PS4 users.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
What you're failing to remember is that they're both the same console more or less. They play the exact same games. It's like the 3DS and n3DS.
Having to optimise a game for 2 configurations of the same hardware is not in any way the same as having to optimise for 2 completely different systems from different generations with vastly different architectures.
Dropping support for PS4 would be like pc games dropping support fort GTX 980, even though APIS automatically sustain support for many years. X360 comparison ignores the fact that 360 runs on completely different architecture.
Great prices for sure. I got a 65" curved Samsung for 1400. It was a best buy display model but it was perfect condition. and that was at least half a year ago. I freaking love this TV and I got rid of my 290x crossfire setup for 980ti sli just so I could use my tv at 4k. I'd gladly get a new Sony machine even if it came out next week. I just want to play the games that I like in 4k at the best graphics I can get them at.
The one good thing is that hardware resellers will definitely have trade in bonuses to encourage people to trade up, right now in gamestop Currently you get 200 bucks for both the PS4 and XBOX One. That would probably be enough for half off on this upgraded consoles and i believe there was additional credit if the trade was towards the purchase of the consoles in the 360/PS3 era. So the route will be easy. And there will be even more affordable used/refurbished consoles for people to buy if they don't need the best performing version. The market for used and second hand cellphones is great and i think people appreciate it they can get a good working device if they wait for a cheaper price.
PodcastFips
Member
That's the next problem.
Also, 1000+$ TVs aren't exactly affordable for the average Joe.
Niteandgrey
Neo Member
Especially since we don't know the specifics yet of what the 4.5 will ultimately be (assuming that the rumor is indeed true).
This could work very well for Sony assuming that:
1. The upgraded APU is also made by AMD. This is obviously a very good bet since there really aren't any other big players in the semi-custom chip business.
2. Existing PS4 software runs on the PS4.5. Once again, backwards compatibility would be a very good bet if they're maintaining the same architecture for the new APU.
3. The big one is future games. Will the PS4.5 games also run on the PS4 but simply at a lower detail? If that's the case, this seems like a big win for Sony. The portion of PS4 owners who do not want to spend the money for a new console are not left out on new games and the people who do have a PS4.5 get extra fidelity out of their games. Cross network play within the PSN still works for games on both consoles.
To me, #3 is the big one. If they do that, the PS4.5 will not only be successful, it will change the industry for the better by adopting a PC-centric model of hardware evolution.
This could work very well for Sony assuming that:
1. The upgraded APU is also made by AMD. This is obviously a very good bet since there really aren't any other big players in the semi-custom chip business.
2. Existing PS4 software runs on the PS4.5. Once again, backwards compatibility would be a very good bet if they're maintaining the same architecture for the new APU.
3. The big one is future games. Will the PS4.5 games also run on the PS4 but simply at a lower detail? If that's the case, this seems like a big win for Sony. The portion of PS4 owners who do not want to spend the money for a new console are not left out on new games and the people who do have a PS4.5 get extra fidelity out of their games. Cross network play within the PSN still works for games on both consoles.
To me, #3 is the big one. If they do that, the PS4.5 will not only be successful, it will change the industry for the better by adopting a PC-centric model of hardware evolution.
At which point the appeal of having a console is lost, for me at least.
You are not really loosing anything. You don't have to worry about compatibility (GPU, CPU, ect) and you just plug it in and play. It's still a console at the end of the day.
gundamkyoukai
Member
If this does happen i will be thee day 1 .
I will just give away my old console .
I will just give away my old console .
timmyp53
Member
They're already being sold for under 750. Budget brands much less (500-600).
Lovely Salsa
Banned
Im calling it now
It will be called PS4k
It will be called PS4k
The 4k TV price argument is so not a factor at this point.
400$ for a 55" off brand
300$ for a 49" off brand
You can even get a Vizo starting at like 400$+
This is where exclusives will matter the most.