Yep, I really think this is what will happen.
Honestly, it could go either way. We don't know.
Kotaku: Sony is working on a PS4.5; briefing devs on plans for a more powerful PS4
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Yep, I really think this is what will happen.
Honestly, it could go either way. We don't know.
Krisprolls
Banned
Yes. Sony knows that. They're going after the enthusiasts market by shorting cycles a bit. It makes sense now that everything is x86 and upgradable.
Plus, now is VR time and the more power you get the better.
Those who don't upgrade still get optimized games like today, devs just have to work on 2 different closed PC settings instead of one. Not a big deal.
They will almost definitely call their next console PS5.
It would be such a bad decision to go the ''Vita'' route.
I am not a fan of this proposal at all - be it from MS or Sony. I buy into a console generation for 3 reasons:
(1) Uniformity - everyone owns the exact same hardware and it is a level playing field online and offline. The market is not split, and developers can focus their attention on making ambitious games for one hardware spec.
(2) Optimization - as the generation goes on, developers learn to optimize and make better and better use of the static hardware. For example, games released at the beginning of PS3 and toward the end of its life cycle were very different.
(3) Longevity - a one time hardware investment and being able to use the said hardware for at least 6-7 years. Unless the system breaks, the only investments are accessories and games.
I would rather have Sony release PS5 by 2018 (5 year console cycle, major hardware upgrade), than a mid-gen refresh that splits the PS4 market and forces developers to split resources in optimizing the same game for two different PS4's. The simplicity of owing a console would lose its charm, at least for me.
(1) Uniformity - everyone owns the exact same hardware and it is a level playing field online and offline. The market is not split, and developers can focus their attention on making ambitious games for one hardware spec.
(2) Optimization - as the generation goes on, developers learn to optimize and make better and better use of the static hardware. For example, games released at the beginning of PS3 and toward the end of its life cycle were very different.
(3) Longevity - a one time hardware investment and being able to use the said hardware for at least 6-7 years. Unless the system breaks, the only investments are accessories and games.
I would rather have Sony release PS5 by 2018 (5 year console cycle, major hardware upgrade), than a mid-gen refresh that splits the PS4 market and forces developers to split resources in optimizing the same game for two different PS4's. The simplicity of owing a console would lose its charm, at least for me.
That's not why. It's because lower level APIS which dx12 will allow on pcs soon.
Console games toggle settings all the time. Naughty Dog games do it a lot. Doing it game wide is done on pc all the time.
Krisprolls
Banned
PS5 would be 2017 so still close to what you want.
Devs won't have to split resources, consoles are PCs now, PS4 and PS5 would just have different graphical settings. It takes very few time to optimize for both if they share the same architecture (they will).
XxRampage07xX
Member
I believe optimization will be here to stay on PS4 and PS4.5 since they are still consoles and both PS4 and PS4.5 will be likely to receive more optimization than PC does, just like how optimization has been for consoles and PC, for fixed and open platform. Also, you have to use the GPU Sony decides because you can't have console level of optimization if you're allowed to use different GPU for your machine. Finally, you pay more to have better graphics and fidelity so I don't think it's really "the same."
Hmm this is indeed a tough situation Sony might get into. But I do believe Sony will never want to piss off their old PS4 users. Also, I doubt casual customers will that naive and ill-informed.
I doubt PS4 and PS4.5 will be any thing like Apple's Iphone. I think Playstation console will still have generation just like how it has been, but the new difference is that there will two variants of the console, instead of 1, that will offer more choices and options of experience for customers to choose. The cheaper console is for those who want have decent performance at decent price and the more expensive one is for hardcore customers who want to have better performance (like 60fps).
Lashley
Why does he wear the mask!?
This is pretty much my opinions on this too. Think I'd rather focus on sorting out a decent PC to game with.
good post, agreed on all points. It's disappointing that people care so much about graphics and tech. 5-6 year console cycles is a good thing and part of the reason I still have consoles around at all.
Well said. But on PC you usually have the options to sacrifice certain settings to maintain 60fps when your hardware isnt up to snuff, consolegames unfortunately dont have that luxury. But in the end, the 'enthousiasts' will buy the equipment they think they need, it will just create a new tier.. the PS4K masterrace ;(
Optimusdouche
Banned
No, it's going to very much be like the Iphone. There's no reason it wouldn't. Why would they keep getting rid of ALL their customers at the beginning of the generation, if they don't have to?
It's expensive and time consuming, and risky having to rebuild an audience. No, you just keep them. Let them play all their games on the continuing platforms, let new games play on older platforms too. Now that the tech has reached this point, there's no reason it wouldn't be like this. Every release of every game is going after the widest possible audience, with the oldest models of PS playing them the worst.
It's better for Sony, who gets to keep their customers, and keep their install base only going upwards, keep the subscriptions for PS+ increasing. And it's better for the customers who, at any given point are purchasing more current hardware than they otherwise would be, and who also have more flexibility and options.
Oh dear.
I hadn't thought of that.
A new tier is about to be introduced to the platform wars.
D:
It will probably be better in the long run, games will be developed akin to how they are on pc currently since so many configurations have to be accounted for, in this case only two targets, the PS4.5 and PS4 versus the indefinite number of pc configurations. In the same way games are developed for the iOS. It will be simple want to play your current games and have them look a bit better and higher FPS buy the 4.5 if you don't care about that stay with your existing hardware. Then when the PS5 is released you'll gotten your 6-8 years out of the PS4 hardware.
Also you aren't being forced to upgrade, there are still plenty of people playing on PS3 and 360 and they are probably okay with that despite the PS4 & Xbone going on 3 years.
As a collective people who can afford to spend money or feel the need to have the latest tech have no problem buying new products everytime they are released, we should blame ourselves for wanting the best. Im sure if a large number of people didn't buy a PS4 or xbox one when they released and they said you know what our PS3/360 is fine we don't need more and sales for the new consoles weren't happening you would still have games being made with first priority for those. If sony and microsoft release these updates and they sell well, then the people have spoken.
Also you aren't being forced to upgrade, there are still plenty of people playing on PS3 and 360 and they are probably okay with that despite the PS4 & Xbone going on 3 years.
As a collective people who can afford to spend money or feel the need to have the latest tech have no problem buying new products everytime they are released, we should blame ourselves for wanting the best. Im sure if a large number of people didn't buy a PS4 or xbox one when they released and they said you know what our PS3/360 is fine we don't need more and sales for the new consoles weren't happening you would still have games being made with first priority for those. If sony and microsoft release these updates and they sell well, then the people have spoken.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Oops wrong thread.
2blackcats
Member
So is there any chance that the extra oomph with this ps4k could offer full backwards compatibility? Then maybe full b/c going forward.
the ps4 graphics api goes down to the metal, vulkan and dx12 doesn't(because they have to serve a lot of different hardware).
I'm not sure what kind of low level access ps4 generally allows beyond that but on ps3 programmers would even handcode memory management on registry level. devs basically have direct access to the hardware and can do whatever they want.
what do you mean by "toggling settings"?
Krisprolls
Banned
Of course. Full BC will be the norm from PS4. Every architecture will be x86 now.
If you mean even playing PS3 games... Probably not, but there's PSNow for that.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
Wanting a $400 console that sells at a profit at launch that will last for the better part of a decade isn't reasonable.
I feel like the greatest appeal of consoles was buying it once and riding it through the generation. It's better to buy a PC if they're doing incremental upgrades like this.
No one said a decade, last gen was weird. Though, now that you mention it I suppose the PS4/One have been out three years now.
The_Inquisitor
Member
Devs already develop on PC then optimize for different hw configs (settings in PC, etc) The burden on devs would be to find an additional settings sweet spot for the new console as well. If they stick with X86 I don't see why the interface and rest of OS couldn't be a carbon duplicate.
2blackcats
Member
I realise that barring some new chip technology making a big splash, ps4 should be fully compatible with any new hardware gens going forward.
I just thought that having every ps game(1,2,3 & 4) allowed to be played on this new machine might be a good selling point.
timmyp53
Member
Might as well through in cd support while they are at it.
Apparition
Member
But do people actually play those games aside from the limited fanbase of enthusiasts?
Eventually the good ones will get remastered or re-released on the new platform.
Come to think of it Bloodborne is probably one of the games that would see immediate benefits from a PS4.5 with a better GPU/CPU. I haven't played it but from what I've seen it struggles to maintain 30fps. If that's true, then an upgraded PS4 would immediately have an easier time running it at its intended framerate cap, without From Software having to update it.
But there's no way we're getting anything like Uncharted 4 at 4K on a $400 2016 console, not even at 30fps. Maybe upscaled 4K. Maybe remasters of last-gen games could get patches to run at 4K.
But there's no way we're getting anything like Uncharted 4 at 4K on a $400 2016 console, not even at 30fps. Maybe upscaled 4K. Maybe remasters of last-gen games could get patches to run at 4K.
The Xbox One revisions won't be upgradable in the sense that you'll manually put parts into it, it will just be rolled out as a new SKU. Spencer has already said they wouldn't ever do a upgradable system, it's too much of a nightmare.
I actually expect Microsoft and Sony to do this rolling revisions thing and maintain compatibility going forward. A traditional console gen is essentially going to disappear.
CosmicQueso
Member
This could be a good thing. Yes consoles do have the benefit of optimization and longevity, but it gets to the point where pc will completely outclass consoles (They do now but not that bad like the end of last gen.) Just think back to BF3 on pc vs ps3/360 and the huge difference in experience consumers had.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Well taste is subjective, and not every good ones will get remastered.
this will never change, consoles can't afford to have as high tpd as high end pc rigs.
it's very disappointing to me that so many gamers seem to care about nothing but graphics.
Same here, i want more power.
TetraGenesis
Member
The only reason I'm bothered by this--the ONLY REASON--is the copy of P.T. sitting on my PS4 that won't transfer over.
How am I supposed to replace my PS4 with a half-step console if it means leaving P.T. behind??
How am I supposed to replace my PS4 with a half-step console if it means leaving P.T. behind??
I don't like the idea of a PS4.5 since I'd rather spend my money on new games and support more developers instead. I don't want to upgrade my console or buy a newer version... (I'd still be PC gamer if I really wanted to keep up with cutting-edge technology and graphics). Personally, consoles are an investment for me that lasts an entire 6 year cycle minimum where I don't have to worry about games not running correctly or not being optimized. If the PS4.5 does hit the market it would only fragment it and split developer resources for two versions of the same game. I feel Sony is better off putting PS4.5 resources into PS5.
Boss Man
Member
That's probably exactly what they're thinking and talking about in their meetings but they're taking a huge (and unwarranted, imo) risk by assuming that people want that kind of market with video game consoles.
If MS does this, it might be smart if their ultimate goal is to get people off of consoles and onto Windows.They also kind of force Sony's hand that way.
But if Sony has just decided on its own to start pumping consoles out every 3 years, that's dumb.
DapperSloth
Member
Even the most demanding graphic cards today has a problem doing 4K at 60fps (well if you don't have 30 grand).
Sony doing a PS 4.5 that can do 4K is as probable as we colonizing Mars tomorrow.
Sony doing a PS 4.5 that can do 4K is as probable as we colonizing Mars tomorrow.
2blackcats
Member
Yes.
I believe people see b/c as added value even if some won't use it much. Kind of like the blu ray player on the ps3. I remember using that as justification but have probably only watched half a dozen movies on it.
PS4k, hoping for:
A decent cpu/gpu upgrade
All gen disc based b/c
4k everything, bluray, games, Netflix
Fall 2017 release,
SSD,
Mobile plan style buying model
To be called PS5,
timmyp53
Member
It's not possible. Hardware has evolved too much. Only expansion possible would have to happen through usb... so no.
Mikey Jr.
Member
Ok, thats what I thought.
Well shit then.
Lets say they introduce the PS5 in X amount of years. Can they account for this upgrade system and design the PS5 to account for this? What kind of port would be needed to pull this off?
since it will be same architecture just stronger cpu/gpu, it is really very simple for developers.
and it will prolong the useful life of actual ps4.
AstroNut325
Member
Where is the problem? If that's what people want, who are you to stand in their way?
Edit:
Any PS4/XB1 developers willing to share insight into what it takes to optimize for multiple closed platforms and PC?
Edit 2:
Futureproofing hardware means much more expensive hardware from day 1. I'm pretty sure most of the people against this would also complain about more expensive hardware.
timmyp53
Member
Neuromancer
Member
I'm sure it would carry over with a backup/restore. Think about this: PT in 4K at 60fps or on PSVR running natively at 120hrz!!!
pixellated_man
Member
After spending an unhealthy amount of time reading this thread and having mulled over all the available 'facts', my conclusion is that this hardware upgrade will be nothing more than a ps4 with the same architecture inside except for a beefier gpu that will enable upscaling of 1080p game content to 4k. The only other thing that will be added to the base ps4 model will be a 4k blu ray drive and maybe a few extra ports and better wifi adaptor.
In other words there will be no major upgrade to the graphical capabilities of the ps4. It will be just a model to target those with 4k televisions. There will be no two versions of the same game. The same ps4 discs will play on the ps4.5 and the extra hardware inside the ps4.5 will have the job of upscaling the content on the disc to 4k.
Besides the resolution all other graphical assets will be exactly the same. There will be no increased performance benefits either. This would explain why there is only mention of an increase in gpu performance since (correct me if I'm wrong here) resolution is gpu dependent.
So ease up folks! There will be no fragmentation of the userbase. No two versions of the same game. The ps4.5 will be largely useless if you don't have a 4k display.
See, there's nothing to fear. Happy to clear things up for everyone!
In other words there will be no major upgrade to the graphical capabilities of the ps4. It will be just a model to target those with 4k televisions. There will be no two versions of the same game. The same ps4 discs will play on the ps4.5 and the extra hardware inside the ps4.5 will have the job of upscaling the content on the disc to 4k.
Besides the resolution all other graphical assets will be exactly the same. There will be no increased performance benefits either. This would explain why there is only mention of an increase in gpu performance since (correct me if I'm wrong here) resolution is gpu dependent.
So ease up folks! There will be no fragmentation of the userbase. No two versions of the same game. The ps4.5 will be largely useless if you don't have a 4k display.
See, there's nothing to fear. Happy to clear things up for everyone!
You can delete everything on your ps4 except for P.T then backup the contents of your ps4 (which will be a couple of mb worth of system settings and the couple gig worth of P.T) to the external.
You can then transfer this to another PS4.
I did this from my launch model ps4 to my grey arkham knight ps4....
ChaoticBlue
Member
it'd be funny if ps4.5 still run games at 30fps due to the dev's "design choice."
really there is no excuse for EVERY games running in 1080p and 60fps.
really there is no excuse for EVERY games running in 1080p and 60fps.
This is the way I see it. Devs are not going to put the time and effort in to make games run natively in 4k when most of the userbase will not benefit from it. So upgrades to the system will probably allow all released games to run better, and upscaling to 4k for newer games. Just my guess.