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[timmyp53]

it'd be funny if ps4.5 still run games at 30fps due to the dev's "design choice."

really there is no excuse for EVERY games running in 1080p and 60fps.

I mean there is always weird engines like souls games where the whole engine and features in the game revolve around the 30fps cap and timing. So honestly the best you could ask for would be for them to look forward and give the option for new games.

 

[2blackcats]

This is the way I see it. Devs are not going to put the time and effort in to make games run natively in 4k when most of the userbase will not benefit from it. So upgrades to the system will probably allow all released games to run better, and upscaling to 4k for newer games. Just my guess.

How would that upscaling work though?

A beefier gpu wouldn't just magically make that happen. And would Sony just disallow devs from making games run better at 1080p for parity?

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

After spending an unhealthy amount of time reading this thread and having mulled over all the available 'facts', my conclusion is that this hardware upgrade will be nothing more than a ps4 with the same architecture inside except for a beefier gpu that will enable upscaling of 1080p game content to 4k. The only other thing that will be added to the base ps4 model will be a 4k blu ray drive and maybe a few extra ports and better wifi adaptor.
In other words there will be no major upgrade to the graphical capabilities of the ps4. It will be just a model to target those with 4k televisions. There will be no two versions of the same game. The same ps4 discs will play on the ps4.5 and the extra hardware inside the ps4.5 will have the job of upscaling the content on the disc to 4k.
Besides the resolution all other graphical assets will be exactly the same. There will be no increased performance benefits either. This would explain why there is only mention of an increase in gpu performance since (correct me if I'm wrong here) resolution is gpu dependent.

So ease up folks! There will be no fragmentation of the userbase. No two versions of the same game. The ps4.5 will be largely useless if you don't have a 4k display.
See, there's nothing to fear. Happy to clear things up for everyone!

I'd think that would be the worse case scenario for everyone. I think it should be either a major APU upgrade or a simple connection/feature revision to be 4k "compatible".

I can't see Sony or AMD bothering to upgrade only the GPU section of a single chip APU when the CPU part is already so weak. It would be like mating a Titan X with G3258!

 

[timmyp53]

Ok, thats what I thought.

Well shit then.

Lets say they introduce the PS5 in X amount of years. Can they account for this upgrade system and design the PS5 to account for this? What kind of port would be needed to pull this off?

A PCI Express slot? Lol. It ain't happening bruh.

 

[2blackcats]

A PCI Express slot? Lol. It ain't happening bruh.

It's sony so it would be a 'PCI Express like' slot. But yeah, not happening.

 

[RaijinFY]

Upscaling content to 4k is literally worthless. Better to release nothing in that case.

 

[Silent Hill]

People. There will not be a 4K gaming console that runs current AAA games. Its just not going to happen. At the very most it will do 4K blu-ray and will have the external box for PSVR built into the console itself. PC rigs that are worth thousands with the highest end tech struggle to run games at 4K at low settings.

Id love a PS4 capable of running games at 4K but lets be realistic here. If anything it will just upscale. Which is not worth it.

 

[Aenima]

If Sony releases new hardware that make the actual PS4 obsulete in a timeframe shorter than 5 years, then next gen im staying PC/Steam only. At least i dont have to pay to play online.

I abandoned MS consoles the moment they killed the original Xbox prematurely, so will do the same with Sony if they do the same.

 

[cakely]

After spending an unhealthy amount of time reading this thread and having mulled over all the available 'facts', my conclusion is that this hardware upgrade will be nothing more than a ps4 with the same architecture inside except for a beefier gpu that will enable upscaling of 1080p game content to 4k. The only other thing that will be added to the base ps4 model will be a 4k blu ray drive and maybe a few extra ports and better wifi adaptor.
In other words there will be no major upgrade to the graphical capabilities of the ps4. It will be just a model to target those with 4k televisions. There will be no two versions of the same game. The same ps4 discs will play on the ps4.5 and the extra hardware inside the ps4.5 will have the job of upscaling the content on the disc to 4k.
Besides the resolution all other graphical assets will be exactly the same. There will be no increased performance benefits either. This would explain why there is only mention of an increase in gpu performance since (correct me if I'm wrong here) resolution is gpu dependent.

So ease up folks! There will be no fragmentation of the userbase. No two versions of the same game. The ps4.5 will be largely useless if you don't have a 4k display.
See, there's nothing to fear. Happy to clear things up for everyone!

Seems legit, I could really see this.

 

[Silent Hill]

If Sony releases new hardware that make the actual PS4 obsulete in a timeframe shorter than 5 years, then next gen im staying PC/Steam only. At least i dont have to pay to play online.

I abandoned MS consoles the moment they killed the original Xbox prematurely, so will do the same with Sony if they do the same.

I doubt they will. The console is doing very well. They have no reason to kill the PS4 so early on in its cycle.

 

[teh_pwn]

the ps4 graphics api goes down to the metal, vulkan and dx12 doesn't(because they have to serve a lot of different hardware).

I'm not sure what kind of low level access ps4 generally allows beyond that but on ps3 programmers would even handcode memory management on registry level. devs basically have direct access to the hardware and can do whatever they want.

what do you mean by "toggling settings"?

By toggle I mean change. Even 4 player N64 disabled effects seen in 1 player. Naughty Dog 1 player games will toggle effects and resolution per scene or level to optimize effective visuals.

 

[Skinpop]

By toggle I mean change. Even 4 player N64 disabled effects seen in 1 player. Naughty Dog 1 player games will toggle effects and resolution per scene or level to optimize effective visuals.

not sure how that relates to low level optimization though. for example with ps4 as a dev I would know exactly which instructions are available, size of the cache, registers and so on and can write my code to utilize those facts. on pc you can't because there are too many configurations.

 

[LogicStep]

Bad idea IMO. Just stick to ps4 and release a ps5 when it's time.

 

[Hawk269]

If this is true and a PS4.5 does come out at the end of the year, will only see games coming out that take advantage of it or will some previous released games be patched?

I am thinking it will be a mix of both new games as they release near the launch of this unit and some older games patched to show the differences. Uncharted 4 patched to be a 60fps in single player, DriveClub at 60fps and better AA. I don't every game released thus far would, but if Sony or MS is going to have an alternative system that is $100-$200 more expensive that the existing versions, they will need to be showing people why it is better and why (if the consumer chooses to buy the PS4.5 over the regular) they should buy the updated version. The best way to do this and to show this is taking existing games that are already out and patch them to show what the differences are.

I don't expect and I don't thing any of us should expect all of our current PS4 games to be patched, but a select few I could see happening...again if any of this is actually true and it comes out this year.

 

[Curufinwe]

After spending an unhealthy amount of time reading this thread and having mulled over all the available 'facts', my conclusion is that this hardware upgrade will be nothing more than a ps4 with the same architecture inside except for a beefier gpu that will enable upscaling of 1080p game content to 4k. The only other thing that will be added to the base ps4 model will be a 4k blu ray drive and maybe a few extra ports and better wifi adaptor.
In other words there will be no major upgrade to the graphical capabilities of the ps4. It will be just a model to target those with 4k televisions. There will be no two versions of the same game. The same ps4 discs will play on the ps4.5 and the extra hardware inside the ps4.5 will have the job of upscaling the content on the disc to 4k.
Besides the resolution all other graphical assets will be exactly the same. There will be no increased performance benefits either. This would explain why there is only mention of an increase in gpu performance since (correct me if I'm wrong here) resolution is gpu dependent.

So ease up folks! There will be no fragmentation of the userbase. No two versions of the same game. The ps4.5 will be largely useless if you don't have a 4k display.
See, there's nothing to fear. Happy to clear things up for everyone!

I thought 4K TVs upscale 1080p content?

 

[AstroNut325]

Bad idea IMO. Just stick to ps4 and release a ps5 when it's time.

Is that an acceptable model where everything in consumer technology has moved to an iterative model? How will the next generation of adults view a piece of tech that hasn't seen an update when everything else they own has?

 

[cheezcake]

After spending an unhealthy amount of time reading this thread and having mulled over all the available 'facts', my conclusion is that this hardware upgrade will be nothing more than a ps4 with the same architecture inside except for a beefier gpu that will enable upscaling of 1080p game content to 4k. The only other thing that will be added to the base ps4 model will be a 4k blu ray drive and maybe a few extra ports and better wifi adaptor.
In other words there will be no major upgrade to the graphical capabilities of the ps4. It will be just a model to target those with 4k televisions. There will be no two versions of the same game. The same ps4 discs will play on the ps4.5 and the extra hardware inside the ps4.5 will have the job of upscaling the content on the disc to 4k.
Besides the resolution all other graphical assets will be exactly the same. There will be no increased performance benefits either. This would explain why there is only mention of an increase in gpu performance since (correct me if I'm wrong here) resolution is gpu dependent.

So ease up folks! There will be no fragmentation of the userbase. No two versions of the same game. The ps4.5 will be largely useless if you don't have a 4k display.
See, there's nothing to fear. Happy to clear things up for everyone!

Upscaling 1080p to 4K is 100% trivial and doesn't need a beefier GPU, any 4k TV does it perfectly by itself.

 

[Final Verdict]

Wow! This would be interesting if they could pull it off properly.

Though I bet it would hurt developers if not implemented right.

EDIT: It does seem a bit early for 4k consoles though when you consider the amount of horsepower needed, and that a lot of people don't have 4k tvs yet.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Is that an acceptable model where everything in consumer technology has moved to an iterative model? How will the next generation of adults view a piece of tech that hasn't seen an update when everything else they own has?

Mainstream computers and TV's don't have an iterative model. It's really only phones and tablets, maybe smart watches too.

 

[Souless_PJ]

Yeah why would you need the PS4 to scale to 4K when the TV already does it automatically.
I guess it would look a bit better being native content.

 

[JustCheezze]

Yeah why would you need the PS4 to scale to 4K when the TV already does it automatically.

Then why do people whine and complain when a game isn't in 1080p when a 1080p TV will scale everything below it anyways?

Lelz.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Mainstream computers and TV's don't have an iterative model. It's really only phones and tablets, maybe smart watches too.

Mainstream (read: prebuilt) Computers are pretty much behind the curve around 3-4 years. Yeah it still works, but there is much better on the market.

TVs might not be iterative, but thats partly because they have slowly become disposable. Buying a TV to last a decade is becoming rarer and rarer.

 

[pixellated_man]

Upscaling 1080p to 4K is 100% trivial and doesn't need a beefier GPU, any 4k TV does it perfectly by itself.

Oh. Then cross out the beefier gpu from the equation. It may simply have a high quality upscaler (like more expensive blu ray players have) and a hdmi 2.0 port. You need hdmi 2.0 for UHD content, no?
If there is any additional cpu / gpu power, I believe it won't be that much. Enough to ease the load for VR games a bit, but not so much that it will enable the ps4.5 to make 30 fps games to run at 60 fps or 1080p games to run at 4k.
I think Sony will be conscious that having too much of a graphical boost will anger people who have recently bought a ps4 and feel buyer's remorse for not holding out for the more powerful SKU.

 

[timmyp53]

Then why do people whine and complain when a game isn't in 1080p when a 1080p TV will scale everything below it anyways?

Lelz.

I know your joking but not many 1080p tvs upcale things.

 

[androvsky]

Then why do people whine and complain when a game isn't in 1080p when a 1080p TV will scale everything below it anyways?

Lelz.

1080 to 4k is an integer upscale, so there's no scaling artifacts using the simplest scaling possible. Most common sub-1080 resolutions don't scale as cleanly, including 720p and 900p.

 

[Batzi]

PlayStation 4S.

lol

 

[Hawk269]

After spending an unhealthy amount of time reading this thread and having mulled over all the available 'facts', my conclusion is that this hardware upgrade will be nothing more than a ps4 with the same architecture inside except for a beefier gpu that will enable upscaling of 1080p game content to 4k. The only other thing that will be added to the base ps4 model will be a 4k blu ray drive and maybe a few extra ports and better wifi adaptor.
In other words there will be no major upgrade to the graphical capabilities of the ps4. It will be just a model to target those with 4k televisions. There will be no two versions of the same game. The same ps4 discs will play on the ps4.5 and the extra hardware inside the ps4.5 will have the job of upscaling the content on the disc to 4k.
Besides the resolution all other graphical assets will be exactly the same. There will be no increased performance benefits either. This would explain why there is only mention of an increase in gpu performance since (correct me if I'm wrong here) resolution is gpu dependent.

So ease up folks! There will be no fragmentation of the userbase. No two versions of the same game. The ps4.5 will be largely useless if you don't have a 4k display.
See, there's nothing to fear. Happy to clear things up for everyone!

A GPU is really not necessary for upscaling and ALL 4k TV's natively upscale any image coming in to 4k. It is not true 4k, but upscaled. All current 4k sets do this now, so that would not be the reason the GPU is upgraded to do upscaling of the games. I currently play my Xbox One and PS4 on a 4k set, so the scaling is already being done.

I think the 4k is more about it having HDMI 2.0 and 4k Blu Ray drive for 4k Blu Ray movies. I do think based on all the rumors if this is true that it would have a beefier GPU/CPU, but not enough for 4k gaming or even near it.

 

[Krappadizzle]

Those who don't upgrade still get optimized games like today, devs just have to work on 2 different closed PC settings instead of one. Not a big deal.

I would not count on this at all. Like whatsoever.

 

[El_Chino]

After spending an unhealthy amount of time reading this thread and having mulled over all the available 'facts', my conclusion is that this hardware upgrade will be nothing more than a ps4 with the same architecture inside except for a beefier gpu that will enable upscaling of 1080p game content to 4k. The only other thing that will be added to the base ps4 model will be a 4k blu ray drive and maybe a few extra ports and better wifi adaptor.
In other words there will be no major upgrade to the graphical capabilities of the ps4. It will be just a model to target those with 4k televisions. There will be no two versions of the same game. The same ps4 discs will play on the ps4.5 and the extra hardware inside the ps4.5 will have the job of upscaling the content on the disc to 4k.
Besides the resolution all other graphical assets will be exactly the same. There will be no increased performance benefits either. This would explain why there is only mention of an increase in gpu performance since (correct me if I'm wrong here) resolution is gpu dependent.

So ease up folks! There will be no fragmentation of the userbase. No two versions of the same game. The ps4.5 will be largely useless if you don't have a 4k display.
See, there's nothing to fear. Happy to clear things up for everyone!

No, there's no need for a beefier gpu for up-scaling.

 

[Mushroom021]

After spending an unhealthy amount of time reading this thread and having mulled over all the available 'facts', my conclusion is that this hardware upgrade will be nothing more than a ps4 with the same architecture inside except for a beefier gpu that will enable upscaling of 1080p game content to 4k. The only other thing that will be added to the base ps4 model will be a 4k blu ray drive and maybe a few extra ports and better wifi adaptor.
In other words there will be no major upgrade to the graphical capabilities of the ps4. It will be just a model to target those with 4k televisions. There will be no two versions of the same game. The same ps4 discs will play on the ps4.5 and the extra hardware inside the ps4.5 will have the job of upscaling the content on the disc to 4k.
Besides the resolution all other graphical assets will be exactly the same. There will be no increased performance benefits either. This would explain why there is only mention of an increase in gpu performance since (correct me if I'm wrong here) resolution is gpu dependent.

So ease up folks! There will be no fragmentation of the userbase. No two versions of the same game. The ps4.5 will be largely useless if you don't have a 4k display.
See, there's nothing to fear. Happy to clear things up for everyone!

He mentioned games running at 60 fps so its not just a scaler.

Also the idea that the psvr box is some sort of processing unit is bizarre. All it is, is a breakout box and nothing more. No reason for it to be built in.

 

[Guymelef]

He mentioned games running at 60 fps so its not just a scaler.

Also the idea that the psvr box is some sort of processing unit is bizarre. All it is, is a breakout box and nothing more. No reason for it to be built in.

What games? PS4.5 compatible games, not the old ones.

 

[Jedi2016]

After spending an unhealthy amount of time reading this thread and having mulled over all the available 'facts', my conclusion is that this hardware upgrade will be nothing more than a ps4 with the same architecture inside except for a beefier gpu that will enable upscaling of 1080p game content to 4k. The only other thing that will be added to the base ps4 model will be a 4k blu ray drive and maybe a few extra ports and better wifi adaptor.
In other words there will be no major upgrade to the graphical capabilities of the ps4. It will be just a model to target those with 4k televisions. There will be no two versions of the same game. The same ps4 discs will play on the ps4.5 and the extra hardware inside the ps4.5 will have the job of upscaling the content on the disc to 4k.
Besides the resolution all other graphical assets will be exactly the same. There will be no increased performance benefits either. This would explain why there is only mention of an increase in gpu performance since (correct me if I'm wrong here) resolution is gpu dependent.

So ease up folks! There will be no fragmentation of the userbase. No two versions of the same game. The ps4.5 will be largely useless if you don't have a 4k display.
See, there's nothing to fear. Happy to clear things up for everyone!

That's my thinking, too. This is something that's getting misreported and people are jumping to the wrong conclusion. Sony's on a roll with PS4, the last thing they'd want to do now is fragment the user base.

I don't even buy the "increased GPU performance", either. 4K upscaling can be done with a small hardware scaler.. attached to the GPU, perhaps, but not part of it, and it won't be used for anything regarding game rendering. That's the only way to guarantee software parity with the "vanilla" PS4.

Consider that native 4K gaming is still out of the reach of all but the most powerful PCs, and you'll see how ridiculous this idea is.

 

[onQ123]

Maybe the move to 14nm will allow them to clock the GPU to 1.6Ghz & use all 20 CU's that would be 4.09 Tflops without needing a new design.

 

[RedFox85]

I call total BS on this rumor. There is no way they are going to be able to put out a console that can render 4k with high performance, allot of higher end gaming PC's today can't output 4k reliably let alone a freaking playstation. Also consider how many games don't even take advantage of 1080p yet.. not to mention the market adoption of 4k just not being there. Sony has made allot of smart moves with the playstation brand this generation I just don't see this same team making a boneheaded 32x styled move like this.

If you wanted a more believable speculation you could say Sony was going to push out a new PS4 which supported the PSVR headset without the need of an external box. I could also see it having 4k bluray support as an added selling point. Having the extra power of the PSVR could then in theory boost the performance of the existing library. I'm not really up to speed with the whole external box thing on the PSVR but last I had read that was supposed to be some additional GPU power to drive the thing no?

Maybe I am underestimating the enthusiast market.. IDK it just doesn't seem plausible to me.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

We're barely at 60fps 1080p.

 

[farmerboy]

Maybe the move to 14nm will allow them to clock the GPU to 1.6Ghz & use all 20 CU's that would be 4.09 Tflops without needing a new design.

The picture makes this post all the more believeable.

 

[bootski]

there's no way they're natively running games @ 4k but they might advertise it as such and push a hq upscaler, beefier cpu and maybe a nice design change. and call it the PS4k. just for a good sound too.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Mainstream (read: prebuilt) Computers are pretty much behind the curve around 3-4 years. Yeah it still works, but there is much better on the market.

TVs might not be iterative, but thats partly because they have slowly become disposable. Buying a TV to last a decade is becoming rarer and rarer.

How is something being much better to mainstream computer relevant to what I'm saying?

And I'm including laptop to by the way.

 

[rjinaz]

I call total BS on this rumor. There is no way they are going to be able to put out a console that can render 4k with high performance, allot of higher end gaming PC's today can't output 4k reliably let alone a freaking playstation. Also consider how many games don't even take advantage of 1080p yet.. not to mention the market adoption of 4k just not being there. Sony has made allot of smart moves with the playstation brand this generation I just don't see this same team making a boneheaded 32x styled move like this.

If you wanted a more believable speculation you could say Sony was going to push out a new PS4 which supported the PSVR headset without the need of an external box. I could also see it having 4k bluray support as an added selling point. Having the extra power of the PSVR could then in theory boost the performance of the existing library. I'm not really up to speed with the whole external box thing on the PSVR but last I had read that was supposed to be some additional GPU power to drive the thing no?

Maybe I am underestimating the enthusiast market.. IDK it just doesn't seem plausible to me.

Agreed. Can totally see the 4k drive support and some extra oomph to handle VR more effectively but hard NAH at the 4k games suggestions. Even IF it was technically possible at a low price, just not enough 4k audience to justify it.

 

[K' Dash]

Just reading some posts here and there. Do people really know how much money would cost to build a PS4 that runs average looking games at 4K? NO WAY ON HELL they are building a machine like this, and if they're, be ready to shell way more than $400.

 

[odhiex]

Maybe the move to 14nm will allow them to clock the GPU to 1.6Ghz & use all 20 CU's that would be 4.09 Tflops without needing a new design.

My tub is ready, Mark.

 

[Sulik2]

it'd be funny if ps4.5 still run games at 30fps due to the dev's "design choice."

really there is no excuse for EVERY games running in 1080p and 60fps.

All devs will do is make games prettier and keep it at 30FPS 1080p. The vast majority of games care nothing about 60FPS, but like pretty games.

 

[Neuromancer]

Agreed. Can totally see the 4k drive support and some extra oomph to handle VR more effectively but hard NAH at the 4k games suggestions. Even IF it was technically possible at a low price, just not enough 4k audience to justify it.

I find this as hard to believe as the rest of the performance increase talk. It directly contradicts Sony's messaging to VR developers at the same GDC where all these secret talks are supposed to be taking place:

 

[btrboyev]

So the PlayStation 4K in 2017?

 

[cheezcake]

Oh. Then cross out the beefier gpu from the equation. It may simply have a high quality upscaler (like more expensive blu ray players have) and a hdmi 2.0 port. You need hdmi 2.0 for UHD content, no?
If there is any additional cpu / gpu power, I believe it won't be that much. Enough to ease the load for VR games a bit, but not so much that it will enable the ps4.5 to make 30 fps games to run at 60 fps or 1080p games to run at 4k.
I think Sony will be conscious that having too much of a graphical boost will anger people who have recently bought a ps4 and feel buyer's remorse for not holding out for the more powerful SKU.

The thing is when upscaling from 1080p to 4k you really don't need a high quality upscaler. Ever 1x1 pixel in 1080p maps perfectly to a 2x2 pixel grid in 4k, you only need to consider better quality upscaling when pixels don't map directly between two resolutions, i.e. the two resolutions don't divide to an integer value.

4k = 3840*2160
1080p = 1920*1080

3840 /1920 = 2
2160/1080 = 2

TBH I really don't see any ps4.5 with increased graphical power ever being released. What I do see is an SKU with, as you said, HDMI 2.0 and 4k blu ray support

 

[Neuromancer]

So the PlayStation 4K in 2017?

Maybe this Fall, if you believe everything in the story.

 

[OfficerZap]

Could this simply be some sort of rejig of existing hardware, ala Jeff Rigby?

As in, they're going to drop something that increases performance of existing consoles? They did something similar with the PS3.

 

[ssharm02]

any other insiders chime in yet?

After spending an unhealthy amount of time reading this thread and having mulled over all the available 'facts', my conclusion is that this hardware upgrade will be nothing more than a ps4 with the same architecture inside except for a beefier gpu that will enable upscaling of 1080p game content to 4k. The only other thing that will be added to the base ps4 model will be a 4k blu ray drive and maybe a few extra ports and better wifi adaptor.
In other words there will be no major upgrade to the graphical capabilities of the ps4. It will be just a model to target those with 4k televisions. There will be no two versions of the same game. The same ps4 discs will play on the ps4.5 and the extra hardware inside the ps4.5 will have the job of upscaling the content on the disc to 4k.
Besides the resolution all other graphical assets will be exactly the same. There will be no increased performance benefits either. This would explain why there is only mention of an increase in gpu performance since (correct me if I'm wrong here) resolution is gpu dependent.

So ease up folks! There will be no fragmentation of the userbase. No two versions of the same game. The ps4.5 will be largely useless if you don't have a 4k display.
See, there's nothing to fear. Happy to clear things up for everyone!

a beefier gpu will need a better CPU....otherwise there will be a huge bottleneck. 4.5 sounds a like a big jump not just a better GPU jump

 

[ssharm02]

double post

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

Could this simply be some sort of rejig of existing hardware, ala Jeff Rigby?

when has he ever been right about one goddamn thing

hope there's an addon for existing console owners or some trade deal or something, kinda over ps4 tbh