Probably.
Super Tuesday 4. I'm really feeling (The After Bern) March 22, 26 contests
- Thread starter NeoXChaos
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Is this one of those famed low-information voters?
balladofwindfishes
Member
It's not like the second paragraph of the Wikipedia page for the case has a pretty good reason why Hillary would be (personally) against CU or anything like that
Oh...
I'm pretty sure that's the angle they're going for.
We're going to end up like the Republican party - feeling angered, fractured and disenfranchised.
Did the repubs have any sort of similar issue that we're aware of? Where people were suddenly "registered democrat" when they weren't?
Flying Toaster
Member
Clinton won Arizona there is no doubt in my mind about that. But the people running the polls are jerks and this was clearly planned. There is no freaking way that seeing how the other state primaries went that 60 places for a few million people was a good idea.
Arizona is a closed primary and the majority of registered Democrats voted vote Clinton.
I waited 5 hours to vote.
Macho Madness
Member
Absolutely. The Arizona Democratic party is aware and is unhappy about it: http://wtkr.com/2016/03/23/arizona-democrats-say-cost-saving-resulted-in-voter-suppression/
They're asking people to submit their issues to them and they'll send them to the Secretary of State. The Republican government shut down polling locations to "save money".
Yet people are blaming it on the DNC and Hillary.
boiled goose
good with gravy
I disagree with your conclusion, but not your perspective. The fact that you believe this is in part Bernie's fault. If I believe that he is less bad than you on this issue, then clearly he is not communicating it well enough.
And of course to voters, if you can't communicate it well enough, then it is the same as being bad on the issue. In that sense you are right.
The one reason I don't put the entire blame on Bernie is because I do think the media has failed to properly educate voters. But again, the current sad state of the media is part of reality. Bernie's "revolution" requires to bypass these limitations, and clearly the revolution has not been good enough so far.
Hillary supporters keep saying this, but keep missing the point.
Would the democratic party like citizens united removed? Yes, because it favors republicans. Republicans are willing to take more of these legalized bribes. They have less shame, and it fits their "pro corporate" flavor. Heck I am even sure some of the big businesses would also be against it, as they currently have to spend so much money to compete.
THAT SAID, it is not like current democrats in power (including Hillary), don't benefit from the current system. The current system HUGELY favors people like Hillary. Hell, even Obama used the current status quo amazingly to raise more money than Romney. If you are swimming in the current system, if you are bathed in it, if you benefit from it, if you were elected because of it, well, people are going to be skeptical about how much effort you will really put in to change the system. Or maybe not even change it, but at least limit how much influence the current system has on you.
It is not like money had no effect in politics before citizens united. Even before citizens united, Hillary Clinton has been swimming in corporate money and influence ever since she was in Arkansas. I don't have anything personal against her (supported her over obama in 08), but to me her issues as a politician (from the perspective of the influence of money in politics) are as clear as can be.
Flying Toaster
Member
Yes... Because the DNC totally did this with shadow corporate money!
TwoDurans
"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."
It happened in areas that would have supported Hillary pretty heavily. Why are people blaming her?
You Know Nothing
Member
Because The Establishment and $hillary or something.
Flying Toaster
Member
I completely agree I find the situation really sad.
Ploid 3.0
Member
Bernie 1 on 1 interview on TYT, maybe they will split this up and post it later. It's live.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uVpG3frhJ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uVpG3frhJ8
Ploid 3.0
Member
Psh World of Final Fantasy, Final Fantasy XV is too mainstream now.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Does this mean the government has a time machine capable of bringing the Hands of Yore from the past to attack Medicare?!
Verily I am aghast
Millions of Sanders voters denied in AZ hands the state the state to corrupt Hillary: http://justicegazette.org/az-sanders-wins-real-vote-while-clinton-wins-rigged-count.html
Bonus points for using Tyler's prediction.
Bonus points for using Tyler's prediction.
excelsiorlef
Member
Can Sanders just go away if only so these people will too?
gutter_trash
Banned
doesn't that include ALL voters regardless of candidate preference?
Macho Madness
Member
The Secretary of State is going to investigate it: http://bit.ly/1WJG9kp
Orbis Tabula
Member
So, I'm pretty sure that, had SCOTUS not ruled against Section V of the VRA last year, a lot of this shit in Arizona wouldn't have been able to happen.
Just another reason why taking the SCOTUS is important.
Just another reason why taking the SCOTUS is important.
Planned by the GOP that cut funding for voting locations, thereby disenfranchising voters who tend to be more Democratic? Absolutely. Nobody should have to wait so long to vote, no matter what party affiliation or location.
Planned by Hillary and the DNC to sway the vote toward Hillary instead of Bernie? Nothing but conspiracy theory by salty Bernie supporters.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Nope. Just Sanders'
googleplex
Member
For fuck sakes...
This shit is why Sanders needs to drop out and endorse Hillary already. The longer this farce drags out and more and more embittered and emboldened his more obnoxious and downright crazy supporters become.
Ploid 3.0
Member
It's good to see that is being looked into. I swear there needs to be a better way of handling the voting process. With all of this technology we have, we can't make the process smoother and more accessible?
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Of course we could streamline the shit out of this process, but certain people want it more difficult, hence voter ID laws.
Not only that, but they appear to have taken an off-screen photo of Tyler's predictions.
Tesseract
Banned
That ain't American at all, no sir. Bernie must stay in until the convention, and hope to bust up the superdelegates with fucking math.
Party of science? Time to prove it.
TwoDurans
"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."
Ah, the hard hitting journalism of Justice Gazette.org. You know I always said a site was more trustworthy if it looked like it was built with a Geocities template.
He's in it till the bitter end, my hope that he'd pivot back to a message candidate after New York were pretty much dashed during that Young Turks interview
So to fan the flames a little bit, based on 538's delegate math:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/delegate-targets/democrats/
Bernie has always been below their projections for making the necessary delegates, and Hillary has always been above.
That said, in less than one month since Feb 27th, Bernie has steadily gone from 81% of their target to 89% of their target, and Hillary has steadily gone from 120% of their target to 111% of their target.
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/delegate-targets/democrats/
Bernie has always been below their projections for making the necessary delegates, and Hillary has always been above.
That said, in less than one month since Feb 27th, Bernie has steadily gone from 81% of their target to 89% of their target, and Hillary has steadily gone from 120% of their target to 111% of their target.
He's in it till the bitter end, my hope that he'd pivot back to a message candidate after New York were pretty much dashed during that Young Turks interview
this post is golden for hilgaf. jesus.
aspiegamer
Member
Is this post supposed to be satire? Because it reads like satire.
Democrats are so stable in comparison to Republicans that I was unable to think of an appropriate metaphor to use to convey this message. We're talking a fraction of Sanders supporters who are this deep in hyperbole. By and large it's their first election and have no idea how any of this actually works or what the words they say actually mean. Presidential elections are Serious Business, and there's some fundamental misunderstanding of How This Shit Works. It's not something to worry about. Much. You know who could prevent any of this from happening? The persons issuing these kinds of threats.
It's worth a mention that these same issues have been raised by urban and minority voters nationwide since literally forever. Now that normal, boring, well-mannered Whites are irked? Suddenly the worst thing! But hey, if it means this stuff gets fixed it's at least something positive. In no way am I saying what seems to have happened in Arizona is acceptable, but it's not a new thing. At all. Especially in red states.
No one in the dreaded Establishment is out to tank Sanders' campaign. There's not even any motivation for them to do so. "Their" candidate leads the contest in every measurable category, their candidate has an insurmountable delegate lead, and is under no national campaign stress. It'd be like a referee trying to screw over the losing team who was already down 3 goals with 5 minutes left. And yes, that's what I'm comparing the Sanders campaign to.
Meaningless statistic, when the actual delegate count has continued to go up in Clinton's favor. That's the number that matters.
Not disagreeing with your numbers, but it's also important to remember that the number of still-uncommitted delegates has also shrunk since Feb. 27. There are fewer opportunities to make up the remaining gap.
e.g. it's better to be 10% off target with 30 states left to vote than to be 5% off target with 1 state left to vote
Sure, that's a very good point. On February 27th, he was at 80% of his cumulative target of 80 delegates, and now he's at 89% of his cumulative target of 1048 delegates. That's obviously a much bigger gap to close and there are many fewer uncommitted delegates with which to close it.
googleplex
Member
He's in it till the bitter end, my hope that he'd pivot back to a message candidate after New York were pretty much dashed during that Young Turks interview
No the point is his more zealous followers are doing more harm then good at good point with this "Hillary is fixing the primaries" bullshit.
I live in Arizona. There was widespread, unprecedented fuckery going on. It favored Hillary. I don't think it's a conspiracy on her part, because the GOP runs all the primaries in AZ. It was just a total shitshow and there was a ton of voter suppression.
googleplex
Member
I live in AZ also I know how long the lines where and how few polling places were available. And if the "Fuckery" happened in mostly minorities districts then it most certainly DID NOT favor Hillary.
Sanders got 60% of the in person vote. Well, those that were actually counted.
balladofwindfishes
Member
What are you even trying to say.
Hillary is only against Citizen's United because it hurts Democrats? And not because it was a direct attack on her and the bill that was overturned by the ruling was something she supported and voted for?
No sorry
This is something Hillary is clearly against and has always clearly against. You're not hand waving it away by pretending it's because it hurts Democrats or something and that's why she is against it. Her voting record doesn't say that. It says she's always supported Campaign Finance Reform.
Maybe he got 60% of the in person vote because Hillary's supporters were suppressed?
This is not evidence that the voter suppression favored Hillary. If anything, it's evidence that it favored Sanders, since apparently the voters that got through the lines supported him even though the early voting showed the state going hard the other way.
There were very few in person votes actually counted.
http://recorder.maricopa.gov/electionresults/screen2.aspx
Of the esimated 800,000 that showed up, only about 85k got counted between both parties. Are you making the argument that AZ can only muster 33k in person votes for a democratic primary?
What happened heavily favored Hillary.
Or maybe Hillary's voteshare would've gone up even further, because she dominated Maricopa County, and that's where most of the cuts for polling places had gone. Maybe Bernie only did better in in-person voting because Hillary's voters were the ones more likely to be disenfranchised, which works for the demographic patterns of the state and what we've seen with Hillary vs. Bernie voters.
This is a huge problem with gutting the VRA. It disenfranchises communities of color.
Sure. I'd be fine with it if the totals didn't represent a total clusterfuck that shouldn't even be considered a viable result. It's not about a particular candidate. Do it right. If Hillary wins, she wins.
Macho Madness
Member
No matter who it benefits or hurts, we're seeing the problems of not having the full Voting Rights Act in effect. We need it back badly, and now.
Well unfortunately, this the reality of elections in America. I think that if every eligible voter who went to the polls was able to vote in North Carolina in 2014, then Kay Hagan would still be a Senator. But she's not, and I respect that Richard Burr's election win was ratified by the North Carolina SoS.
I don't think it's likely that if everyone had gone to polls had been able to vote that Bernie would've come close to winning. I think it's likely Hillary would've done even better given her demo wins in Maricopa. But this is why all elections are important and have consequences.
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