finalflame
Banned
I'm sure you've thought of this but the R&D engineers at Sony have not.
This rumor is super interesting. I'd totally peg this for an E3 announcement and release in time for PSVR.
Eurogamer: Independently confirms source that the PS4.5 is real, referred as PS 4K
- Thread starter Volotaire
- Start date
I'm sure you've thought of this but the R&D engineers at Sony have not.
This rumor is super interesting. I'd totally peg this for an E3 announcement and release in time for PSVR.
Some of you guys have no idea the huge amount of change that's going to happen this year with GPU Tech.
A) Process node shrinks are in place to boost performance by a margin of 2-2.5 in the same thermal envelope.
B) AMD is officially going back to emphasizing single core performance. The "Netbook" CPU we've been crutching around with can hopefully die in a fire once Zen comes out to play.
C) HBM is a new memory interface which will be the new industry standard, cheap, and most importantly, EXTREMELY POWERFUL. We're talking about speeds 10 times the rate of GDDR5.
The confluence of technology represents a massive opportunity to bolster an existing platform while not going for broke. If Sony goes for option 1, this allows PlayStation to start competing with the PC gaming sector. PS4K represents the advantages of PC gaming (evolving hardware) and removes it's disadvantages (instability, complexity).
However- the biggest challenge they are going to face is establishing consumer confidence that their legacy devices will not run the risk of obscelence. Giving a long term roadmap publicly might help too. So far though, I can see Sony releasing some sort of new hardware every year. Example:
Year 1: New console
Year 2: New controller
Year 3: New VR headset
Year 4: New Portable (lol?)
Year 5: New console
*Cycle repeats.
I haven't heard anything nor am I in contact with any one who would know anything. The only thing I wanted to say was the article echoed the same predictions I was making in the previous thread.
A) Process node shrinks are in place to boost performance by a margin of 2-2.5 in the same thermal envelope.
B) AMD is officially going back to emphasizing single core performance. The "Netbook" CPU we've been crutching around with can hopefully die in a fire once Zen comes out to play.
C) HBM is a new memory interface which will be the new industry standard, cheap, and most importantly, EXTREMELY POWERFUL. We're talking about speeds 10 times the rate of GDDR5.
The confluence of technology represents a massive opportunity to bolster an existing platform while not going for broke. If Sony goes for option 1, this allows PlayStation to start competing with the PC gaming sector. PS4K represents the advantages of PC gaming (evolving hardware) and removes it's disadvantages (instability, complexity).
However- the biggest challenge they are going to face is establishing consumer confidence that their legacy devices will not run the risk of obscelence. Giving a long term roadmap publicly might help too. So far though, I can see Sony releasing some sort of new hardware every year. Example:
Year 1: New console
Year 2: New controller
Year 3: New VR headset
Year 4: New Portable (lol?)
Year 5: New console
*Cycle repeats.
I haven't heard anything nor am I in contact with any one who would know anything. The only thing I wanted to say was the article echoed the same predictions I was making in the previous thread.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
If it's Polaris that would make sense. If it's some downsized up clocked ps4 chip then that would be a disappointment.
Sorry for giving any incorrect numbers. I recall the latest Tested youtube channel impressions of the PSVR saying that there were games running at 45 that were re-projected to 90 fps. Maybe that was sheer guesswork on their part.
Garrett Hawke
Member
I still don't think this is real, I think it's just going to be a PS4 with 4K spec HDMI to play 4K blurays etc.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Yah this sounds like a 4K bluray player more so than a 4K graphical powerhouse. Big difference.
Wouldn't make sense for developers to see it then if it was simply this.
No sweat, but yeah, likely just assuming since 120 was re-projected 60, 90 was also 45. Even re-projected, I would imagine 45 would cause some discomfort.
Obliterator
Member
Btw one other thing worth noting. People keep saying option 3, but nowhere does it say Option 3 won't offer improved graphics / performance. It simply states games resolution will remain at 1080p instead of 4k
Also if this was just for 4k media Test Kits wouldn't be being made and developers wouldn't be being briefed on it
Exactly right
Also if this was just for 4k media Test Kits wouldn't be being made and developers wouldn't be being briefed on it
Exactly right
Dictator93
Member
Good article by DF. The chance of something fitting into the same thermal envelope but managing 4k content at the same quality is indeed impossible, even with upcoming technology.
Modest Mauser
Member
If it now supports 4K, it makes sense that they would show devs that that output is now an option, even if the console won't provide enough power for most devs to want to use it.
Option 3 is lazy and will not do a damn thing to help VR/4K gaming *(if this is the goal).
The name of the game is TOOLS, TOOLS, and TOOLS. Tools that will help a developer debug, estimate performance targets/deltas, and help dev's understand where they can take advantage of the new hardware while mantaining a steady and respectable level of fidelity on a previous platform. I remember when Cell processor initially came out people were complaining about its headaches, and than around the time of Uncharted 2- the ICE Team had it's hands on these tools that helped give the programmer an idea of how much the CPU was being taxed and in what way.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
PS4K also contradicts what the head of Magic Labs said at GDC regarding PSVR having the advantage of having same hardware specs in 30+ million homes.
Let he wouldn't know about it, makes him sound stupid if there is a different spec hardware coming out.
Maintenance
Member
Haha, seems like you haven't heard of Hyrule Warriors Legends.
If they do anything with VR it will be a mess. The thing needs 45 to 90, 60 to 120 or native 90hz from the start, if the OG PS4 can't deliver that then they are fucked.
The box's cost is probably so inconsequential that they'll just write it off. "Note: Breakout box not required for use with PS 4K."
Obliterator
Member
I mean there is quite literally zero reason to brief developers if this is about media. None. Especially this far out.
Whether people want to admit it or not this will be impacting games. Its the only reason Sony would be having large scale conversations with developers
Bluekaveli
Member
Sounds like I'm safe to save money. Yay!
Option C will more than insure a full 1080p/60 FPS for all games with all sorts of effects ramped to the max. 4K 30 will be the target for single player/"cinematic" titles if they go with a Polaris GPU/Zen CPU.
A GTX 970 which runs circles around the PS4 in a box alongside a pretty powerful intel CPU has a hard time with VR and is the "MINIMUM" requirement for VR on Oculus. There was some developer quote from somewhere I've read on here that said the PS4 when properly coded for should equate roughly to a GTX 970 or so?
VR, whether any one likes it or not, is such a massive performance vacuum that it kicks back everything an entire generation in terms of "graphics quality". It'll be a good 5 years before we start seeing consoles with the ability to do PS4 quality in VR. And I use the word "Quality", like the PS3 "Quality" is used to refer to Vita titles.
I doubt it would be of mention then. I seriously doubt that they would prototype a PS4 with a new HDMI port and call it PS4k. The kotaku rumor specifically mentions VR and 4K and increased horsepower.
EventHorizon
Member
This definitely isn't going to be a full generational leap. It seems like a no brainer to offer 4K video support and implement the latest HDMI spec. A clock speed improvement along with some tweaks to the GPU to better support VR also seem likely.
The end result will be a new console version that games can use the extra power to offer up better graphics options like better antialiasing, shadowing, and illumination. They could also offer up 60 FPS versions of some 30 FPS games. In the end games will be targeted towards the vanilla PS4 and during the optimization phase of development, the PS4k will simply leave more of the bells and whistles on.
The end result will be a new console version that games can use the extra power to offer up better graphics options like better antialiasing, shadowing, and illumination. They could also offer up 60 FPS versions of some 30 FPS games. In the end games will be targeted towards the vanilla PS4 and during the optimization phase of development, the PS4k will simply leave more of the bells and whistles on.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
This is basically what I'm thinking but all the stars are aligning for AMD. New CPU,GPU, RAM and new 14nm process (after 5 years!) all at the same time.
I wonder, given the above, what performance Sony could get from a 348mm2/100-150W Zen/Polaris APU? I'm thinking very nice....though they could go less powerful and much smaller.
Cool. Must have been mixing you up with someone else.
Neuromancer
Member
I'm guessing this will be like the midcycle PS2 revision where it started supporting 480p. Seems like people forget about that one but I bought one- it had a little yellow + sign on the corner of the box to differentiate it from the regular PS2. It did have a small effect on games because some, like God of War, had a special 480p mode, but mostly it made DVDs look better.
brickarts295
Member
GODDAMMIT
I really wanted to trade my Launch PS4 for the new Uncharted 4 Limited Edition but now with these news I don't know what to do?!
I really wanted to trade my Launch PS4 for the new Uncharted 4 Limited Edition but now with these news I don't know what to do?!
Obliterator
Member
I think this portion from Patrick's article is very important
If there is a more powerful Xbox on the way Sony would be well aware of it and want to counter it with a product of their own
Oops edited down post lol accidentally quoted whole article
If there is a more powerful Xbox on the way Sony would be well aware of it and want to counter it with a product of their own
Oops edited down post lol accidentally quoted whole article
The technology is literally begging to be put into consoles. The bigger issue is will Sony / Microsoft actually go for larger boxes? Heat + Wattage are the enemies to console design. Also - newer motherboards are supporting thunderbolt 3.0 which will allow any console to upgrade its GPU at the drop of a hat.
This is both an exciting and terrifying time, but also one where the console gamer can officially reap the benefit of the PC gamer.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
Also, pretty much every single insider to come forward so far has made it clear their sources specifically mentioned this upgrade is being done for game/"software application" purposes.
Nikodemos
Member
But that wouldn't be a PS4 mk. II. That'd just be a PS5.
finalflame
Banned
If the implication is that these technological shifts will make the PS4 capable of 4K gaming in its current size, at current levels of fidelity: it won't.
Extra juice for VR? Sure. Playback 4K media? Sure. Maybe some less graphically ambitious/2D/isometric games with a 4K output option? Sure?
Uncharted 4K? No.
Live Free or Die
Banned
Amazing. Already pre-ordered!
This is what Im hoping it is. Games were largely unaffected aside from the odd game that added progressive scan.
0ptimusPayne
Member
If Sony can offer the cheapest 4K bluray player on the market, I will instantly jump on this and trade in my old one for sure.
Obliterator
Member
You dont brief developers at GDC about a media update months and months before announcement, so people can already write the possibility thats all it is off
DrROBschiz
Member
No this has been the plans from the start for both of them & it's AMD who is pushing it & sold them the dream of HSA & scale-able hardware.
Neuromancer
Member
Like I said, some games supported 480p mode. It wasn't just media stuff.
You might if there is a shift in architecture that will cause minor turmoil in current development.
Chances of this happening are getting higher.
Personally as I said in other threads I don't like the idea because it would mean splitting the userbase, leading to less optimized games for the current console and users being forced in a stealth way to upgrade in two years at max. At the same time people getting the new console won't see the hardware they have just bought fully utilized because of the existence of a more popular less powerful option. It's a perpetual cross gen state.
But it's too early to tell because we don't know what kind of approach they're taking.
They might simply shrink the APU to 14-16nm and clock it much higher, in that case the architecture would be 100% the same so there wouldn't be an optimization problem for example, just the new model being able to run the same code and higher res and/or frame rate.
I think this is a delicate thing and must be handled properly to not generate backlash.
So far we have seen Sega trying this approach with the Genesis, Nintendo with the N64 memory pack and recently with their new3DS. Results have not been good in all cases.
In the most recent case of the n3DS we have seen very little impact on sales and developers preferring the bigger installed base of the older model compared to take advantage of the new hardware.
We'll see what happens, at least in the case of Sony they aren't shifting their exclusives to PC like Xbox but it's also true that the output of their first party studios has declined this gen so far.
Personally as I said in other threads I don't like the idea because it would mean splitting the userbase, leading to less optimized games for the current console and users being forced in a stealth way to upgrade in two years at max. At the same time people getting the new console won't see the hardware they have just bought fully utilized because of the existence of a more popular less powerful option. It's a perpetual cross gen state.
But it's too early to tell because we don't know what kind of approach they're taking.
They might simply shrink the APU to 14-16nm and clock it much higher, in that case the architecture would be 100% the same so there wouldn't be an optimization problem for example, just the new model being able to run the same code and higher res and/or frame rate.
I think this is a delicate thing and must be handled properly to not generate backlash.
So far we have seen Sega trying this approach with the Genesis, Nintendo with the N64 memory pack and recently with their new3DS. Results have not been good in all cases.
In the most recent case of the n3DS we have seen very little impact on sales and developers preferring the bigger installed base of the older model compared to take advantage of the new hardware.
We'll see what happens, at least in the case of Sony they aren't shifting their exclusives to PC like Xbox but it's also true that the output of their first party studios has declined this gen so far.
Obliterator
Member
Not a single leak has said this though. Every one, including the EG article we are talking about specifically state this is about games.
Why people are proclaiming its just media makes no sense to me. There is zero evidence thats whats going on. In fact it all points in the other direction
LookAtMeGo
Member
After doing a bunch of math I figured out that this is how NMS will come to PSVR.
AngelOFDeath
Member
Maybe I should start looking into a 4K TV....
So let's get all the cons out of the way:
1- Developer fragmentation and optimization headaches.
RX:
A) Better tools to identify targets, deficiencies, instability.
B) Devkits designed to offer both platforms (PS4/4K) ideal performance values for their respective hardware.
2- Consumer confidence waning.
RX:
A) Set logical scheduled releases that aren't too close (<2 years) or too long (>5 years).
B) Insure consumers that as long as a game supports a "Genus" the "4" in the PS4; that it will be playable on the "Family" of PlayStation devices PS4, PS4K, PS4KS etc.
3- Poor legacy platform support.
RX:
A) Mandate strict policies which have specific targets for all platforms. IE PS4 title should run at minimum 720p 30 FPS at >90% of gameplay. etc.
B) GAURAUNTEE THAT IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM SONY WILL EVER FRAGMENT THE USERBASE.
1- Developer fragmentation and optimization headaches.
RX:
A) Better tools to identify targets, deficiencies, instability.
B) Devkits designed to offer both platforms (PS4/4K) ideal performance values for their respective hardware.
2- Consumer confidence waning.
RX:
A) Set logical scheduled releases that aren't too close (<2 years) or too long (>5 years).
B) Insure consumers that as long as a game supports a "Genus" the "4" in the PS4; that it will be playable on the "Family" of PlayStation devices PS4, PS4K, PS4KS etc.
3- Poor legacy platform support.
RX:
A) Mandate strict policies which have specific targets for all platforms. IE PS4 title should run at minimum 720p 30 FPS at >90% of gameplay. etc.
B) GAURAUNTEE THAT IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM SONY WILL EVER FRAGMENT THE USERBASE.