Poodlestrike
Banned
Disagree entirely. Second half is where things come together in a big way. First half is plagued by dodgy ass editing.
The line about his father being abusive definitely makes it seem that way, yeah.
Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son
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Disagree entirely. Second half is where things come together in a big way. First half is plagued by dodgy ass editing.
The line about his father being abusive definitely makes it seem that way, yeah.
Schweinehund
Member
I feel like the majority of people are missing out on why Batman didn't brand lex, and what it means. Do we really abhor character development that much? I love it. I came in hating the idea that Batman would be killing.
It's fairly obvious JL is going to be a lighter movie. This is a very transformative movie, tone wise.
It's fairly obvious JL is going to be a lighter movie. This is a very transformative movie, tone wise.
You have to look at this film in quarters. Each half has a handful of traction.
Dougieflesh
Member
Also what's up with Batman using guns? I thought that was a no-no for him?
Poodlestrike
Banned
Very much agreed.
I'd need to time that out, lol.
I kind of separate it into "before title fight" and "after title fight." After the title fight is where things really start clicking. Editing hugely improves.
Well... as a rule, yes. But rules are made to be broken
It's pretty clearly the result of his total burnout by the time this movie rolls around.
TheSlySoul
Member
The machine gun trap was really cheap honestly.
Did not mind Superman handing Batman his ass afterwards.
I feel like this movie took forever to establish each characters motivation to fight one another. And is lex that annoying in the comics? I could barely stand him.
Also, that scene where Bruce finally decrypts lex's thumb drive or whatever, and the justice league member are just laid out, that had me laughing. Like here ya go! It's all here!
Also, that scene where Bruce finally decrypts lex's thumb drive or whatever, and the justice league member are just laid out, that had me laughing. Like here ya go! It's all here!
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Ok, I think I actually liked the movie. There were problems, for sure, but it's certainly not a terrible movie. I really liked the hints towards the greater universe and that Lex was the one keeping tabs on these meta humans. It makes sense that it's not really Superman he's ONLY concerned with, but he's the only one that's an immediate threat to Lex. I think Superman's character would have been more consistent if he didn't cry when being forced to kill Zod, but I did like how Lois essentially told Clark that perhaps he can't love her and be who he is. He was clearly willing to kill without hesitation for both Lois and Martha. This is a Superman that isn't perfect. He's still trying to find his way. Perhaps he will be the Superman we all know when he returns to life from that grave?
I thought the Knightmare scene should have been a vision given to Batman by Flash. That would have been a cool way to do it without Batman having dream both. Flash was simply trying to contact Batman and attempt to tell him how to avoid the upcoming apocalyptic event.
Those are my initial thoughts. Hated that Batman killed and used guns, but this Batman is obviously or was obviously turned cruel. He is broken, but Superman may have brought him back to being a good man. Superman proved to Batman that someone with that much power can mean to do good.
I thought the Knightmare scene should have been a vision given to Batman by Flash. That would have been a cool way to do it without Batman having dream both. Flash was simply trying to contact Batman and attempt to tell him how to avoid the upcoming apocalyptic event.
Those are my initial thoughts. Hated that Batman killed and used guns, but this Batman is obviously or was obviously turned cruel. He is broken, but Superman may have brought him back to being a good man. Superman proved to Batman that someone with that much power can mean to do good.
You're absolutely right, people who don't like this movie just hate character development.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Character development is fantastic. The scribes of this movie don't seem to understand what that really is.
This works too!
Opposite for me: The 1st half was just a bunch of random scenes put together plus some odd ones like the Nightmare scene. The 2nd half was at least coherent and had great action.
TheSlySoul
Member
No, have no clue where they pulled that Lex. It is like they tried to combine him with the Joker. Rubbed me all wrong.
Jessie should really stay away from all comic book properties. He drags them down...
Poodlestrike
Banned
Naw. Batman's motivation to fight Superman is established inside of the first 20 minutes. Superman never finds his motivation to fight Batman; he starts to get there, then the bombing happens.
And Lex is really different here. I think he suffers a lot from cut scenes and poor editing choices, what works really works though.
This is just wrong.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Its Batman who has turned all antihero.
He even sees himself as just another criminal in the movie. Just gave up being the Batman we knew.
Totally. It's like they had him watch a bunch of the animated series and told him just do that.
Also the subtitle for this movie should've been A Simple Misunderstanding.
SpanishExplorer
Member
This movie felt super disjointed to me. You had Superman dealing with the aftermath of zod and lex, then you had batman origin story version 6 and his point of view on the zod incident, and
finally Wonder Woman introducing the justice league. Also, fuck the girl taking selfies with a fucking flash right next to me. I almost went doomsday on her.
finally Wonder Woman introducing the justice league. Also, fuck the girl taking selfies with a fucking flash right next to me. I almost went doomsday on her.
Schweinehund
Member
What was your issue then, if you don't mind expanding.
It was so dumb and random TBH. I'm telling you this was Superman at first
I just finished watching the movie and honestly felt like I could have fast forwarded the movie about an 90 minutes and it would've fixed most of the issues. The movie above anything else, is just really boring. I get it, some people think Superman isn't inherently good and needs to be controlled, some revere him as a god. Oh look, let me show you Bruce's parents get shot about 50 times in slow-mo, because I don't think you remembered his mom's name is Martha just like Superman's mom. Lex Luthor was awful, it just seemed like Jesse Eisenberg wanted to mesh Lex Luthor with the Joker and tried to make him psychotic for no reason. Basically, he's angry with everyone because his dad used to beat him and now he believes everyone is evil. His only redeeming quality was that he planned the letters to make the fight happen.
The last hour was pretty good, the best part of the movie was Batman setting up the bat traps and Superman proving to him that there are good men left in the world. All of the other metahumans stuff seemed out of place and so did the nightmare sequence. I liked Wonder Woman and was surprised with how good Superman was.
This was pretty much Man of Steel all over again, which I think is a huge disappointment.
The last hour was pretty good, the best part of the movie was Batman setting up the bat traps and Superman proving to him that there are good men left in the world. All of the other metahumans stuff seemed out of place and so did the nightmare sequence. I liked Wonder Woman and was surprised with how good Superman was.
This was pretty much Man of Steel all over again, which I think is a huge disappointment.
WrenchNinja
Member
This isn't character development Batman needed. This is just creating a problem to be solved. It feels entirely manufactured. Like you can see the strings at work here when you shouldnt
TheSlySoul
Member
Clark would be so dead if his adoptive mother was not named Martha.
No doubt I liked him, give him a decent script and I am down with that Batman movie.
Im loving the great lengths some are going to defend the movie as it was so epic and with such a deep story, message and char development....
The only good thing for me in this movie (and alfred)
Really hyped for Batfleck directed by affleck
The only good thing for me in this movie (and alfred)
Really hyped for Batfleck directed by affleck
Lois saved his ass.
Schweinehund
Member
Maybe if it were out of character, I feel like there's a disconnect between expectations and reality. We don't know this Batman's background so nothing is established, I would wager a guess that given his "good men in gotham" speech and the dead robin is that he doesn't give a fuck anymore after having been shit on in life so much.
If anything it's made me more interested in Bat's solo.
I think a bit more exposition would help tbh. The theme is there but it requires some piecing together.
Honestly man, I'm not even mad. I'm actually really happy the film exceeded my low expectations. I'm really looking forward to JL now.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Tell me, in detail, how they developed the single relationship in this movie that needed to be developed (Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent) in a meaningful, way that earned the loss/sacrifice at the film's end.
That was the most important thing they needed to nail and overwhelming, people have come away feeling like that didn't work at all.
Don't get me started on Lex and his lack of depth beyond...what we got.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Sure it is. It's a refutation of a lot of the daker parts of the mythos. That once exposed to the "job" for long enough, there's no going back. It takes Miller's Batman and turns it on its head.
ryutaro's mama
Member
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=199076346&postcount=2313
Enjoy.
(it's more than a "single line" of text)
Feels bad man.
Actually MoS was the one that eliminated any future hype I could've had for comic book movies in general. But this one just makes me flat out uninterested in any upcoming endeavors from DC and from Snyder for that matter.
It's funny that I thought the same thing.
That was, btw, a horrible CG/puppet thing they used for him.
Corronchilejano
Member
Went to see the movie last night. I liked it. I mean, sure, it was a Zack Snyder film and the second half could've been done better, but I liked it. It's a different type of movie than Marvel ones and I applaud it for that.
He's the Batman I never knew I wanted.
He's the Batman I never knew I wanted.
WrenchNinja
Member
Go read post Jason Todd death pre Tim Drake comics. You don't need to make Batman a killer to make him seem like he's lost his marbles more than usual. Hell go read Bruce Wayne Murderer/Fugitive. Or post-Identity Crisis stuff. This shit in the movie is just dumb.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Preach.
Hylianhero777
Member
Just got back from seeing this. Wow. Going to refrain from the big catch all post with all of my thoughts (really disliked it) but I do want to ask something. Anyone remember the line "Superman" says to Lois before he goes off to fight Bats? Something along the lines of "No one stays good" or something? I can't remember the exact quote but I was taken aback at how it seemed to run in the opposite direction of everything Superman stands for.
good night sweet prince. Just watched this "movie" or a compilation of vignettes. I'm done with this movies too . The movie is so inarticulate that is painful to watch. So at the end Batman just hide like a pussy? And Wonder Woman a character with NO FUCKING STORY ARC saves the day with her lasso? Ok
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
The idea that someone close to Batman dying would cause him to give up his principals is ridiculous at it's core. The entire reason he is Batman to begin with is because someone close to him died. It's what motivates him.
I don't understand ANY of these movie's dream sequences.
And there are like FOUR of them in the movie. Intro, Knightmare, Flash, Pa Kent. Am I missing any? edit: MANBAT dream. FIVE. What the fuck?
Was this actually Snyder's way of making Sucker Punch 2?
I'm not gonna lie, Wonder Woman was the best thing in that movie for me. Such a bad ass. And she had that heavy metal intro? Yeah that was cool.
And what was bats supposed to do? He's a guy in a suit v doomsday.
Dougieflesh
Member
Affleck really did an amazing job as Batman. I was on that hate train when I first heard the announcement but to me he was the best part of the movie
friskykillface
Banned
again, why play wonder woman's theme each time she attacked, what the fuck sound mixer
Affleck played a good old batman , just in time to bring in batman beyond ;p
Affleck played a good old batman , just in time to bring in batman beyond ;p
Do people pay attention to these movies? Batman was avoiding Doomsday laserbeams and shit because he's just a man. He can't do much. He did distract and weaken him later in the fight with the Kryptonite grenade he had left after the Superman fight.
Wonder Woman was there to retrieve a photograph from Lex that belonged to her. And stayed to help fight Doomsday.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Yeah, but it's a thought when he was at his low point.
Even Batman realised that it was wrong in the end. The point of the movie is that people CAN stay good.
You can't have 3 crazy dream sequences and have one of them being a vision of the future. It makes no God damn sense. They should of cut the first 2 and have all 3 take place in the knightmare world. Then you have the flash show up.
Also I'm surprised they didn't do the angle of batman was retired for a little while, Bruce got married, she dies in metropolis and batman comes out of retirement to fuck people up.
I still say he is calling the man on the phone that died dad, which confused me and the people that I went with. If he wasn't why did it upset him so much to make batman go so brutal. The guy was on screen for only a minute with no back story and is never brought bake up again.
Also I'm surprised they didn't do the angle of batman was retired for a little while, Bruce got married, she dies in metropolis and batman comes out of retirement to fuck people up.
I still say he is calling the man on the phone that died dad, which confused me and the people that I went with. If he wasn't why did it upset him so much to make batman go so brutal. The guy was on screen for only a minute with no back story and is never brought bake up again.
AlfredX1990
Banned
Even among those who liked it, can't agree on why they liked it, this is the perfect definition of a Zack Snyder movie
Yes Wonder Woman is the best thing of that movie. And batman? Don't know man, he was so ballsy with superman at least shoot the thing or make an awesome one liner. Not like Lex Luthor "this is your doomsday".
I cursed Snyder I cursed you forever for ruing my favorite superheroes. Well at least Nolan's Batman is the best Batman.
Poodlestrike
Banned
...
Okay, ignoring the sudden change in criteria from "any character development" to "this specific piece of character development..."
Bruce Wayne starts out regarding Clark Kent as the latest obstacle to be run over in his crusade. As the most dangeous rogue in his gallery. A threat so unbelievably potent, unbelievably dangerous, that it cannot be allowed to exist. That the whole world can be categorized like that; he's even come to regard himself as nothing more than a criminal, albeit one that hunts others. So he's in kind of a dark place. A place that only gets darker as the movie progresses and he gets pushed further over the edge by Lex's manipulations.
Meanwhile, Clark Kent is wrestling with what it means to be Superman. He's becoming frightened of the effect he can have on the world, wondering if he really has the right to pull these levers. So when he sees what Batman has begun to do (and he's only begun, the branding really does seem to have happened more than once), and it disgusts him. So he begins to tackle the threat of the Bat-Vigilante as Clark Kent, as opposed to Superman.
By the middle of the movie, things are coming to a head for both characters. Clark has left the building entirely, just about, feeling that Superman causes more damage than he heals. And Batman is prepping for outright deliberate murder. But then... Clark comes back. Because he loves Lois, because he's come to realize that his actions having consequences isn't something that would go away if he had no powers. That you can't save everybody, but you can never stop trying.
Then, Lex has his mother. Superman rejected the fight on his own terms, but he's forced into it by Lex. So he decides, he's going to approach Batman, not as a foe, but as a person. One who he believes still has good in him, a far cry from his views earlier in the movie. Batman, meanwhile, is lagging behind in his epiphany. So while Superman is just trying to subdue Batman long enough to convince him to help, Batman is really trying to murder Superman. And he very nearly does. Until Superman says the Martha line. And Batman is suddenly shocked into remembering that the people he fights aren't just criminals, or monsters, they're people. It's something he clearly hasn't thought about for a very very long time. And the shock of that is enough for him to help Superman rescue his mother.
And then Superman dies. Twice. And this links back to the "men are brave" thing. Because Batman's whole thing with that was that you have to be able to feel fear to be brave. That Superman's inhuman strength and toughness makes him less, makes him incapable of being a hero. And then he's shown to be wrong. Batman at the end of the movie is ready to begin trying to heal, a far cry from the burned out shell of a man at the beginning.
And that's character development.
He was calling him Jack and it was a colleague of him at Wayne Enterprises... I mean it was pretty clear. Bruce asked him to evacuate the building, because he's probably the manager in charge.
Batman was being smart. He saw how big that fucking thing was and decided to get outta dodge.
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