ryutaro's mama
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Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son
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Spine_Ripper
Member
Does the knightmare scene make anyone else want to replay Injustice: Gods Among Us?
element
Member
Back from a 7 PM showing.
Things I liked:
Ben Affleck as Batman/Bruce Wayne. The suit was cool.
Jeremy Irons as Alfred.
Bruce Wayne race to Wayne Financial in the beginning was cool.
Things I didn't like:
Fade to Black. Seriously the editing in the film was fucked up.
Goes with the editing, but the pacing was totally off as well.
Secret identities just thrown to the wind. When Superman just calls Batman "Bruce" without Bruce even flinching an eye felt stupid.
I seriously hate Synder's fight choreography. Multiple times I had instant flashbacks to 300 and Watchmen.
Jonathan Kent's ghost. This just felt like "how can we get Kevin Costner in this movie?"
Jesse Eisenberg as Lex. Already been talked about the ticks and mannerism. Having only ready some of the comics, I always viewed Lex as a super genius, not someone with Aspergers. Seriously deflated one of the best villians in the DC universe.
Some of the effects were great, the for some reason the first time you see Superman fly totally felt/look terrible. Something was really off on that shot in the compositing.
More development of things surrounding the characters than the characters themselves. Felt like more time was spent between Senator Finch and Lex, than Batman and Superman.
Too many dream sequences.
I could go on. Just really boring and dragged. One thing is there was no reason to see it again. I saw TFA 3 times. I saw Mockingjay, Part 2 twice. Hateful Eight twice. Age of Ultron twice. The second the credits started, I had no desire to see it again for a long time. This is seriously going to damage it at the box office.
Things I liked:
Ben Affleck as Batman/Bruce Wayne. The suit was cool.
Jeremy Irons as Alfred.
Bruce Wayne race to Wayne Financial in the beginning was cool.
Things I didn't like:
Fade to Black. Seriously the editing in the film was fucked up.
Goes with the editing, but the pacing was totally off as well.
Secret identities just thrown to the wind. When Superman just calls Batman "Bruce" without Bruce even flinching an eye felt stupid.
I seriously hate Synder's fight choreography. Multiple times I had instant flashbacks to 300 and Watchmen.
Jonathan Kent's ghost. This just felt like "how can we get Kevin Costner in this movie?"
Jesse Eisenberg as Lex. Already been talked about the ticks and mannerism. Having only ready some of the comics, I always viewed Lex as a super genius, not someone with Aspergers. Seriously deflated one of the best villians in the DC universe.
Some of the effects were great, the for some reason the first time you see Superman fly totally felt/look terrible. Something was really off on that shot in the compositing.
More development of things surrounding the characters than the characters themselves. Felt like more time was spent between Senator Finch and Lex, than Batman and Superman.
Too many dream sequences.
I could go on. Just really boring and dragged. One thing is there was no reason to see it again. I saw TFA 3 times. I saw Mockingjay, Part 2 twice. Hateful Eight twice. Age of Ultron twice. The second the credits started, I had no desire to see it again for a long time. This is seriously going to damage it at the box office.
A Batman and Superman movie should be even easier to follow by that logic because their mythologies are far more prevalent in popular culture.
No, but it made me want to rewatch John wick to get the bad taste of that terrible fight scene out my mouf.
See, this movie should've been called Death of Superman. That's what it was if we're being honest here.
Mr. PlayStation
Member
Movie was so good, can't wait to watch it again!
Dude's security system probably caught Superman leaving his party. He was taking off his tie while he was still in Lex's mansion. Either that, or Lex used some facial recognition software.
Just got back from seeing it and needless to say, I have a lot of thoughts on it.
First off, I completely understand why people are criticizing the characters in relation to how they are portrayed in the comics and previous medium, though I personally had no problem with it. One of the primary themes of the film is that both heroes are human, and to be human is to be flawed. Not flawed in the "oh, I can never save everyone" way but flawed as in the "I'm going to make the selfish decision in this scenario because there is no right answer" type of way. I mean, the only reason Superman fights Batman is because it's either him or his Mom, and the only reason Batman wants to kill Superman is because he's been manipulated into a belief structure which is false by the true antagonist of the film.
Here's the thing, both of these themes are WAY more relevant today than this ideal we have in our heads of Batman and Superman somehow being able to avoid those types of decisions or situations. I acknowledge that this concept of Superman being more human than everyone else is endearing, but go look at all of the other media being produced today and tell me how many characters represent that same ideal? I'm pretty sure that the only answers you will come up with are superhero characters, and that's mainly because they were all developed during that golden age.
That said, this movie was fucking DARK. Like....literally and figuratively. The entire film has an underexposed and moody aesthetic to it. Couple that with the subject matter and you've got the most dark and depressing superhero (not comic book) film I think I've ever seen. I can see why some critics were comparing it more to Watchmen, though BvS just LOOKS more bleak.
Coming back to the characters, yeah Batman uses guns, primarily on the Batwing. Is it justified? Not really. Does it matter? Ultimately it's up to you. I likened it to the use of the Batmobile in Arkham Knight, which does indeed have guns on it. He uses what appears to be a grenade launcher to fire those kryptonite shells, and he has a dream sequence where he uses guns. Oh yeah, and he uses the gun to blow up that dudes flamethrower. Yeah....he uses guns lol. The fight sequences with him also reminded me of the Arkham games, in a good way. The hits felt powerful and he had a fucking gun fired point blank at his dome. Shit was crazy.
The other action scenes were honestly a bit disappointing, mainly because they were so fucking DARK. Low light + fast action = IDKWTFIGO. MoS had better fights because they are clearly visible. This was all at night in the rain. I get it, you're setting a tone, but you could still make up some excuse for spot lighting in the scene, or just brighten it up a bit. Maybe it was a shit theater, I dunno.
I thought the other characters were fine, even Michael Cera. I was sceptical of Batfleck when it was initially announced, but he totally pulled it off.
Ultimately, I enjoyed it, though it certainly has flaws. From some impressions I was expecting a completely jumbled mess. I would not describe it nearly as that bad, but I do think the directors cut should clean up some stuff. I'd probably give it a 7.5/10.
First off, I completely understand why people are criticizing the characters in relation to how they are portrayed in the comics and previous medium, though I personally had no problem with it. One of the primary themes of the film is that both heroes are human, and to be human is to be flawed. Not flawed in the "oh, I can never save everyone" way but flawed as in the "I'm going to make the selfish decision in this scenario because there is no right answer" type of way. I mean, the only reason Superman fights Batman is because it's either him or his Mom, and the only reason Batman wants to kill Superman is because he's been manipulated into a belief structure which is false by the true antagonist of the film.
Here's the thing, both of these themes are WAY more relevant today than this ideal we have in our heads of Batman and Superman somehow being able to avoid those types of decisions or situations. I acknowledge that this concept of Superman being more human than everyone else is endearing, but go look at all of the other media being produced today and tell me how many characters represent that same ideal? I'm pretty sure that the only answers you will come up with are superhero characters, and that's mainly because they were all developed during that golden age.
That said, this movie was fucking DARK. Like....literally and figuratively. The entire film has an underexposed and moody aesthetic to it. Couple that with the subject matter and you've got the most dark and depressing superhero (not comic book) film I think I've ever seen. I can see why some critics were comparing it more to Watchmen, though BvS just LOOKS more bleak.
Coming back to the characters, yeah Batman uses guns, primarily on the Batwing. Is it justified? Not really. Does it matter? Ultimately it's up to you. I likened it to the use of the Batmobile in Arkham Knight, which does indeed have guns on it. He uses what appears to be a grenade launcher to fire those kryptonite shells, and he has a dream sequence where he uses guns. Oh yeah, and he uses the gun to blow up that dudes flamethrower. Yeah....he uses guns lol. The fight sequences with him also reminded me of the Arkham games, in a good way. The hits felt powerful and he had a fucking gun fired point blank at his dome. Shit was crazy.
The other action scenes were honestly a bit disappointing, mainly because they were so fucking DARK. Low light + fast action = IDKWTFIGO. MoS had better fights because they are clearly visible. This was all at night in the rain. I get it, you're setting a tone, but you could still make up some excuse for spot lighting in the scene, or just brighten it up a bit. Maybe it was a shit theater, I dunno.
I thought the other characters were fine, even Michael Cera. I was sceptical of Batfleck when it was initially announced, but he totally pulled it off.
Ultimately, I enjoyed it, though it certainly has flaws. From some impressions I was expecting a completely jumbled mess. I would not describe it nearly as that bad, but I do think the directors cut should clean up some stuff. I'd probably give it a 7.5/10.
Dreams-Visions
Member
100%? I thought that was just one of Bat's extra suits.
RellyRell28
Banned
You know this whole dynamic of this Batman killing people is weird. Some of those kills where so indirect and such. Like when he had Lex's main henchman at gunpoint when he had Martha Kent. I mean yeah he threatened to burn her and all and he just shoots the tank and makes it explode.
Well, you couldn't see his eyes but his body language to me made it seem like he was a bit surprised (or uncomfortable) to be called that.There's no way Clark wouldn't have known from the earlier encounter anyways.
I thought so too.
Flow-Walker
Banned
Why would Batman have a suit with a big R on the chest?
It has "HAHAHA Joke's on you" spray painted on it.
Dreams-Visions
Member
^ yea I saw the suit. I just didn't notice it looked different.
this hurts my soul.
I didn't see the R. Was too busy reading Joker's spray painting. If it had an R on it, nobody I was with noticed it either. Again, lots going on in that camera pan moment.
Probably would have been easier to differentiate it if it was a red suit. (if it was red too, yea I totally missed that)
this hurts my soul.
I didn't see the R. Was too busy reading Joker's spray painting. If it had an R on it, nobody I was with noticed it either. Again, lots going on in that camera pan moment.
Probably would have been easier to differentiate it if it was a red suit. (if it was red too, yea I totally missed that)
I loved it. But I seriously felt like Zack Snyder just flipped through TDKR, saw that one scene where Batman goes full-bear and wrestles this guy through a wall to shoot another dude to save a baby and thinks "OH MAN HE NO LONGER GIVES A FUCK"
Which yeahhhhh you can make the argument for until like, the second half of the series where he fucks up the Joker but does not kill him. And he told the mutants/sons of Batman to not use guns, for they are cowards' weapons.
But holy hell I loved him blastin' some fools, man. I've said this before and I'll say it again, I cheered when he popped 'em like they popped his papa and mama.
super-heated plasma
Member
How does Lex know that (what I assume is) Darkseid knows about Earth and will be coming?
Just_myles
Member
Why did he just leave his kryptonian ship there, yet, we see a scene with him towing a fucking boat? Why did he just leave them Zod's body? Kind of sense does that make?
It was in the trailers as well. But yeah, I can see people not catching it. My sister had to lean over and ask whose costume it was, despite the fact that I have paused that scene when showing her the trailers.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Presumably the Kryptonian ship had a beacon. In MoS it summoned Zod. Based on what the ship's computer taught him, he seems to believe he was able to make contact.
It was in the trailers as well. But yeah, I can see people not catching it. My sister had to lean over and ask whose costume it was, despite the fact that I have paused that scene when showing her the trailers.
icic. yea i must have watched the trailer 10x and didn't notice it at all. text can be a distracting thing when you're reading it and trying to take in the moment. ty, will pass along to others who also missed it.
Gotta set up the actual important movie.
Zod and the ship were government property until Lex convinced them to hand him and the ship over.
What did he mean by this?
Member
I assumed due to the Kryptonian ship archives, but I have no fucking clue
One of the coolest bits for me was that scene where Batman rescues all of those sex workers. I love when people see Batman as this mythical human bat monster and not just a guy dressed up as a bat.
It was actually kind of scary when the camera panned and you saw him clinging on to the wall.
Gave me some A Serious House on Serious Earth vives.
It was actually kind of scary when the camera panned and you saw him clinging on to the wall.
Gave me some A Serious House on Serious Earth vives.
That R is super easy to miss thanks to that graffiti.
I no longer feel like a dummy for missing it!
I thought he looked funny on the wall, waiting for that cop to slowly pan around.
Will the Thrill
Banned
Yeah, I hated the movie.
Even then, it's still probably more enjoyable than Man of Steel (thanks in part to Ben Affleck as Batman and Jeremy irons as Alfred) However I can barely say that because Batman is just made into a merciless killing machine in the movie. Absolutely hilarious.
The Knightmare stuff was especially awful (What the hell were those random freaking bug demon things?), like did we really need that in the movie? Did we need Flash traveling back in time all of a sudden? OUT OF NOWHERE? "but but he had to warn Bruce to protect the future!" How about just drop that idea entirely? Just because an idea can "make sense" in the movies plot doesn't mean it added anything to the movie at all anyway.
Did we need that long scene (Right as Batman and Superman are finally going to fight) of Wonder Woman looking at Computer files of the separate heroes? "Come on guys we need to out Marvel Marvel (Of setting up future movies in a movie) and just put as many threads as humanly possible to Justice League in the movie"
The movie just felt cobbled together, the first half of the movie felt like random clips from different movies smashed into each other. (The random batman appearing in lex luthors jail scene at the end was especially jarring with the needlessly too long funeral stuff post climax.)
Jesus I hope Zack Snyder is dropped entirely. As well as the Argo writer since he didn't seem to be able to save this movie after all (I wonder how much was left of Goyers work though....).
Last bit, the scene of Bruce floating up in the bats was stupendously hilarious.
Ok I have so much more left to say about this train wreck but I had to get this out.
Time for sleep......
Even then, it's still probably more enjoyable than Man of Steel (thanks in part to Ben Affleck as Batman and Jeremy irons as Alfred) However I can barely say that because Batman is just made into a merciless killing machine in the movie. Absolutely hilarious.
The Knightmare stuff was especially awful (What the hell were those random freaking bug demon things?), like did we really need that in the movie? Did we need Flash traveling back in time all of a sudden? OUT OF NOWHERE? "but but he had to warn Bruce to protect the future!" How about just drop that idea entirely? Just because an idea can "make sense" in the movies plot doesn't mean it added anything to the movie at all anyway.
Did we need that long scene (Right as Batman and Superman are finally going to fight) of Wonder Woman looking at Computer files of the separate heroes? "Come on guys we need to out Marvel Marvel (Of setting up future movies in a movie) and just put as many threads as humanly possible to Justice League in the movie"
The movie just felt cobbled together, the first half of the movie felt like random clips from different movies smashed into each other. (The random batman appearing in lex luthors jail scene at the end was especially jarring with the needlessly too long funeral stuff post climax.)
Jesus I hope Zack Snyder is dropped entirely. As well as the Argo writer since he didn't seem to be able to save this movie after all (I wonder how much was left of Goyers work though....).
Last bit, the scene of Bruce floating up in the bats was stupendously hilarious.
Ok I have so much more left to say about this train wreck but I had to get this out.
Time for sleep......
I really liked the first time we saw Bruce in the suit hanging in that corner and then crawling away. Very creepy.
MaulerX
Member
In all fairness if you're trying to read the graffiti then that R is super easy to miss. I missed it too! Lol
Dreams-Visions
Member
yea the problem here is too much fuckin desaturation.
it's very easy to just notice the standard-issue bat gloves, black/dark suit, glance briefly at the cape think it's another style of batsuit and just start reading the text. the scene has you thinking about JOKER instead of realizing it's Robin's suit.
Not a critique so much as a recognition that desaturation and declolorization can have unintended consequences. I bet it was quite clear to them when they shot the scene (and to anyone watching the film in production), but the problem here is created secondary to the post-processing. I bet that suit was unmistakably red and gold on set. In this frame? Looks damn near black.
RellyRell28
Banned
Yeah I missed the R too but I just assumed it was Robin's
Dreams-Visions
Member
of course it was forgivable. it wasn't real. we were like, "uhhh" but then bruce started speaking of it as "the lie" and we were all like, "oh okay cool."
taking time to himself to think about what his role towards humanity should be. given the controversey of his very existence on the planet, I think some time alone was warranted. And unlike us who like...take a walk through the park or drive somewhere...Clark Kent just sort of jumps to another continent to do his thinking. Because he can.
*nods*
I was briefly worried that all the critics were right from the opening fuckin moments. I was glad the movie didn't jump the shark 10 minutes in. lol
He was feeling down on himself man. Soul searching.
When it was revealed to be a vision/dream I literally breathed a sigh of relief.
I kind of got why he was there. More importantly, why was he hallucinating?
No way they could have named it that. That was one of the more surprising aspects of the film. Though you're right. For as much as this film is Dark Knight Returns inspired there is a a good amount Death of Superman in this film as well. It's something we should have saw coming with Doomsday being in the film but I doubt anyone actually though they'd kill off Superman in the second film of the universe. Thankfully he's getting better it seems. It's a bold move though. The film certainly is bold in what it does and tries to do.
ryutaro's mama
Member
FlutterPuffs
Member
More thoughts:
1. I think there were at least 3 "haha it was a dream" sequences. In one of them, Batman even wakes up from the dream to find he's tied up, and then wakes up from THAT, I think? At some point I started expecting stuff to be a dream and going "oh good, this part isnt' real".
2. I like the Dark Knight Alfred, but this Alfred as a repairman / gadget guy was fine. I especially liked that he was perpetually exasperated, like "more crap to deal with, as expected".
3. I remembered one part I said "what the fuck" out loud at. It was when Lex was going "bing bing bing bing" behind bars or something. I think the guy in front of me also threw a hand out in a wtf gesture.
1. I think there were at least 3 "haha it was a dream" sequences. In one of them, Batman even wakes up from the dream to find he's tied up, and then wakes up from THAT, I think? At some point I started expecting stuff to be a dream and going "oh good, this part isnt' real".
2. I like the Dark Knight Alfred, but this Alfred as a repairman / gadget guy was fine. I especially liked that he was perpetually exasperated, like "more crap to deal with, as expected".
3. I remembered one part I said "what the fuck" out loud at. It was when Lex was going "bing bing bing bing" behind bars or something. I think the guy in front of me also threw a hand out in a wtf gesture.
He has access to the kryptonian scout ship and begins to question it about everything. Who knows what else he has access to. He had information on Aquaman, Flash, Wonder Woman, and Cyborg. Where did that, what I assumed was a mother box, Cyborg's father had come from? Maybe Darkseid has people on Earth already and Luther been working with them already. 18 months did pass from the end of Man of Steel. There is more enough time for a lot of things to have taken place.
Are the guys that did the Prometheus review with all the "why" questions going to tackle this? It will be a good day for them.
Besides Batfleck I could not find much else to enjoy. Cavill's portrayal of Superman had me the whole time hoping Batman would just fucking spear him to the ground and let the credits roll.
Besides Batfleck I could not find much else to enjoy. Cavill's portrayal of Superman had me the whole time hoping Batman would just fucking spear him to the ground and let the credits roll.
Jack Remington
Banned
This was so much more logically cohesive than Prometheus.
Prometheus makes no sense on any level.
Just_myles
Member
hwy_61 said:
So weird. You mean to tell me, the guy who basically ignores all international law, a guy they even say basically answers to no one, doesn't stop to think what would happen if the technology that you know, basically almost destroyed the planet goes to the wrong hands? Which it did. The explanation you speak of, is not an explanation. That is what is wrong with this movie.
I refuse to believe Superman to be that naive.
He couldn't because his mom's name is martha.
Oh I agree, but you can't help to ask yourself "why did they edit it this way?", "why this jump in continuity?", and so on. There was a decent movie in there, it feels like it stayed on the editing room floor.
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