Cult following would be pathetic for a movie of this budget and for how big of a weekend it's going to have. They're frigging Batman and Superman. Of course it's going to have a following.
Batman > Superman: Dawn of Justice |OT| Enter the Knightmare
- Thread starter MisterHero
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Cult following would be pathetic for a movie of this budget and for how big of a weekend it's going to have. They're frigging Batman and Superman. Of course it's going to have a following.
SolidChamp
Banned
For those who have given your impressions here, would you say this is something you could bring a kid to? Lol
What would be the minimum age requirement?
I mean, for example, I remember watching Batman Begins in the theatre and for the first hour this 6 year old sitting behind me was constantly asking his dad "Daddy, where's Batman?"
What would be the minimum age requirement?
I mean, for example, I remember watching Batman Begins in the theatre and for the first hour this 6 year old sitting behind me was constantly asking his dad "Daddy, where's Batman?"
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
I wouldnt suggest kids. There are some violent batman scenes
bananafactory
Banned
I wouldn't recommend bringing kids, they'll probably be extremely bored for large stretches. I can't see it holding their attention.
I'd say minimum age would be like....12? There's definitely violence but not really anything explicit or bloody.
The_Hitcher89
Member
The so-called critics don't know what they're talking about, simple as that.
Affleck is perhaps the best Batman there's ever been, and Caville brings a suitable wooden charm to Superman. Just like Superman has always been, he perfectly portrays the effort to relate to others, and failure to spark real chemistry with them. Dare I say it, he's like an alien trying to blend in among humans. Like I say, perfect.
And Jesse Heisenburg as Lex Luthor is just as inspired as Affleck as Batman. Casting the villain out of left-field worked incredibly well for Ledger's Joker, and that's why it works here as well. Plus, let's be honest, nobody wants a baldie for a supervillain. If you can't control your own hairline, how can you possibly control the world?
Combine that with Snyder's peerless blend of grit and glam as evident in 300 and Watchmen, and its an instant classic imo. As evident in those films, he has a proven track record for elevating his source material for a new medium, and I for one couldn't be happier that he has the DC universe in his hands. Where others would drop the ball, I have complete faith that he'll hit the back of the net, whether those critics can get over themselves and accept the films for what they are, or not.
Can't wait to see it tonight, had my tickets booked for months.
Affleck is perhaps the best Batman there's ever been, and Caville brings a suitable wooden charm to Superman. Just like Superman has always been, he perfectly portrays the effort to relate to others, and failure to spark real chemistry with them. Dare I say it, he's like an alien trying to blend in among humans. Like I say, perfect.
And Jesse Heisenburg as Lex Luthor is just as inspired as Affleck as Batman. Casting the villain out of left-field worked incredibly well for Ledger's Joker, and that's why it works here as well. Plus, let's be honest, nobody wants a baldie for a supervillain. If you can't control your own hairline, how can you possibly control the world?
Combine that with Snyder's peerless blend of grit and glam as evident in 300 and Watchmen, and its an instant classic imo. As evident in those films, he has a proven track record for elevating his source material for a new medium, and I for one couldn't be happier that he has the DC universe in his hands. Where others would drop the ball, I have complete faith that he'll hit the back of the net, whether those critics can get over themselves and accept the films for what they are, or not.
Can't wait to see it tonight, had my tickets booked for months.
beyond_death
Member
Definitely no younger than like 11 or 12 years old. The pretty slow build in the first part of the movie probably won't hold a young kids attention and overall the movie is pretty heavy tonally.
Brian_FETO
Banned
Lol I was agreeing with you until you said you haven't seen it yet
Don't slight critics until you've seen it yourself. Again, I agree with everything you said and really enjoyed it but you haven't seen it yet.
I thought Wolverine Origins couldn't fail, it was based on the ultimate origin story and it had Gambit and Deadpool! How could they go wrong? Right???
bananafactory
Banned
You almost had me until Jesse Heisenburg. Well played
He's joking. He's poking fun at some of the livid posters here that it's getting a bad critical rap.
I hope you didn't seriously agree with "wooden charm" and being unable to have chemistry with anyone as positives.
Never read a Superman comic (aside from Red Son), seen any cartoon and only seen Man of Steel so I've no reference for what a 'good' Lex Luthor would be. So many that's why I enjoyed Jesse Eisenberg's performance, I found him incredibly creepy and slimy.
The bit with
was exactly the weird shit he'd do.
The bit with
the piss jar
They gave a bad film bad reviews, to the incredibly disproportionate consternation and ire of a pocket few?
Damn, those critics
Can you link me?
Beren the Empty-Handed
Member
I haven't seen it yet, but from what I'm gathering from this OP, opinion varies wildly. I'm seeing ecstasy, amusement, boredom, disappointment, hatred, confusion, and indifference.
I can be reasonably sure that Warner Brothers is worried that it's so incredibly divisive.
I can be reasonably sure that Warner Brothers is worried that it's so incredibly divisive.
The following review will be SPOILER FREE. If you would like to see the spoiler version it will be in the spoiler thread located here.
First, my rating: 7/10
To put that in perspective that is exactly the same rating I would give Man of Steel. Since people like to know how these scores compared to Marvel's movies I'll throw a couple here that are usually asked about...
The Winter Soldier: 8/10
Guardians of the Galaxy: 6/10
Age of Ultron: 6/10
Other Snyder movies...
300: 7/10
Watchmen: 8/10
Sucker Punch: 4/10
Now onto the review.
I like to get the bad out of the way when I talk about a movie I like so let's start there.
The Bad
- There were 3 scenes that bothered me. One needed to be moved because it was strikingly out of place. The second needed a better lead in to where it cut to. The third didn't make any sense other than to satisfy the need to reference TDKR.
- Lois was again reduced to plot device.
- The world building interrupted an otherwise good plot.
- An important plot point falls on deaf ears to anyone not familiar with the comics.
This section here will further elaborate on these points in the spoiler thread.
The Okay
- Superman wasn't given much to do other than be around when things happened. No real opportunity to shine but did well with what there was.
- Diana Prince could have used a bit more fleshing out but with her own movie I understand why. Still, a bit disheartening.
- TDKR influence was prominent and because of it Batman seemed more important despite the story revolving around Superman. It didn't hurt the plot though.
- First hour had a lot of story to set up. Pace was lightening fast and then slowed once the action gets underway. Makes the movie seem uneven but not enough to really hurt it.
- The Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman scores were in your face a lot of the time. Since the score is good this is not a bad thing but can be described as slightly annoying.
- Action scenes didn't quite grab me the way they did in MoS but they were still very solid.
This section here will further elaborate on these points in the spoiler thread.
The Good
- Character moments really helped to flesh out the main characters and their line of thinking.
- The plot wasn't perfect but was much improved over Man of Steel. It's only weakness being the JL world building I mentioned earlier.
- The actual dialog was a huge improvement over Man of Steel. Terrio's effect could really be felt in this regard.
- Eisenberg and Affleck really nailed it. I have a hard time deciding who I liked better. For any of you I would easily call Affleck but only because it may be hard for some of you to divorce yourself from a version of Lex that does not exist in this movie. At all.
- Pretty much the entire cast nailed their scenes. Very little in the way of bad delivery. Gadot was the weak link here but it's easy to point her out because she had so few lines. The majority of her lines were delivered well though.
- Even though the world building interrupted the plot at certain points what was there did a pretty good job of setting some things up. I was very interested or at the very least curious about the little seeds planted.
- The Knightmare sequence was jarring but on purpose and it was awesome.
- Bruce's perspective of the Black Zero event was terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. Really well done.
- Not a serious point but Amy Adams in the tub was just the best.
This section here will further elaborate on these points in the spoiler thread.
Final Thought
While the movie was definitely an improvement over Man of Steel in a lot of ways I felt the movie was trying to do a little too much and it dragged the movie down in some parts that keep me from giving that extra point in the score. That along with some things that will just go right over your head if you weren't paying attention or if you don't have a lot of DC knowledge even if those two things weren't always in relation to each other.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just as an FYI, I will be cross posting this in the DCEU Community thread and the spoiler version will be up in a little bit. I want to get some food in me first. Feel free to ask questions but in this thread I will not spoil anything.
First, my rating: 7/10
To put that in perspective that is exactly the same rating I would give Man of Steel. Since people like to know how these scores compared to Marvel's movies I'll throw a couple here that are usually asked about...
The Winter Soldier: 8/10
Guardians of the Galaxy: 6/10
Age of Ultron: 6/10
Other Snyder movies...
300: 7/10
Watchmen: 8/10
Sucker Punch: 4/10
Now onto the review.
I like to get the bad out of the way when I talk about a movie I like so let's start there.
The Bad
- There were 3 scenes that bothered me. One needed to be moved because it was strikingly out of place. The second needed a better lead in to where it cut to. The third didn't make any sense other than to satisfy the need to reference TDKR.
- Lois was again reduced to plot device.
- The world building interrupted an otherwise good plot.
- An important plot point falls on deaf ears to anyone not familiar with the comics.
This section here will further elaborate on these points in the spoiler thread.
The Okay
- Superman wasn't given much to do other than be around when things happened. No real opportunity to shine but did well with what there was.
- Diana Prince could have used a bit more fleshing out but with her own movie I understand why. Still, a bit disheartening.
- TDKR influence was prominent and because of it Batman seemed more important despite the story revolving around Superman. It didn't hurt the plot though.
- First hour had a lot of story to set up. Pace was lightening fast and then slowed once the action gets underway. Makes the movie seem uneven but not enough to really hurt it.
- The Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman scores were in your face a lot of the time. Since the score is good this is not a bad thing but can be described as slightly annoying.
- Action scenes didn't quite grab me the way they did in MoS but they were still very solid.
This section here will further elaborate on these points in the spoiler thread.
The Good
- Character moments really helped to flesh out the main characters and their line of thinking.
- The plot wasn't perfect but was much improved over Man of Steel. It's only weakness being the JL world building I mentioned earlier.
- The actual dialog was a huge improvement over Man of Steel. Terrio's effect could really be felt in this regard.
- Eisenberg and Affleck really nailed it. I have a hard time deciding who I liked better. For any of you I would easily call Affleck but only because it may be hard for some of you to divorce yourself from a version of Lex that does not exist in this movie. At all.
- Pretty much the entire cast nailed their scenes. Very little in the way of bad delivery. Gadot was the weak link here but it's easy to point her out because she had so few lines. The majority of her lines were delivered well though.
- Even though the world building interrupted the plot at certain points what was there did a pretty good job of setting some things up. I was very interested or at the very least curious about the little seeds planted.
- The Knightmare sequence was jarring but on purpose and it was awesome.
- Bruce's perspective of the Black Zero event was terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. Really well done.
- Not a serious point but Amy Adams in the tub was just the best.
This section here will further elaborate on these points in the spoiler thread.
Final Thought
While the movie was definitely an improvement over Man of Steel in a lot of ways I felt the movie was trying to do a little too much and it dragged the movie down in some parts that keep me from giving that extra point in the score. That along with some things that will just go right over your head if you weren't paying attention or if you don't have a lot of DC knowledge even if those two things weren't always in relation to each other.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just as an FYI, I will be cross posting this in the DCEU Community thread and the spoiler version will be up in a little bit. I want to get some food in me first. Feel free to ask questions but in this thread I will not spoil anything.
Brian_FETO
Banned
Lol, whoops. Skimming, late, paid off by DC, etc
Lionel Mandrake
Member
This wasn't the disaster it was made out to be.
The_Hitcher89
Member
Skim reading my posts?
Might as well glance at the Mona Lisa
Might as well glance at the Mona Lisa
Dash_Riprock
Member
Didn't he like MoS?
Yeah, he's a huge superman fan boy who has had a love hate relationship leading up to this film. He's been covering it since it was announced.
Saw it last night, not as bad as critics make it out to be.
The good:
- Ben Affleck nails Bruce Wayne and Batman
- it has the best Bruce-Alfred dynamic
- Jeremy Irons and Laurence Fishburn are great in their limited screentime
- the visuals, it's a good looking movie
- Gal Gadot is an amazing Wonder Woman
- The Justice League stuff isn't as jarring as some make it out to be
The bad:
- Both Superman and Batman lack depth
- Jessie Eisenberg trying to channel some Johnny Depp Mad Hatter Jack Sparrow on speed and it doesn't work
- Batman's place on the world is unclear, some scenes allude to a retired bats, others seem to indicate that he's new to the scene, some scenes even do both
- there's very little actual Batman v Superman
- the resolution to the fight felt stupid and unnatural
- Jesse fucking Eisenberg, seriously.
- the story is a mess, it never find a rhythm, a beat. Snyder seems to be more concerned with showing certain shots than making those shots make sense in the story, a story that seems to be shifting during the movie, like he doesn't know what story he wants to tell.
- Amy Adams is a plank, there's no emotional connection to Lois Lane, whatsoever
I enjoyed the movie for what it is, a Zack Snyder superheromovie. Go in expecting that, and you won't leave disappointed.
The good:
- Ben Affleck nails Bruce Wayne and Batman
- it has the best Bruce-Alfred dynamic
- Jeremy Irons and Laurence Fishburn are great in their limited screentime
- the visuals, it's a good looking movie
- Gal Gadot is an amazing Wonder Woman
- The Justice League stuff isn't as jarring as some make it out to be
The bad:
- Both Superman and Batman lack depth
- Jessie Eisenberg trying to channel some Johnny Depp Mad Hatter Jack Sparrow on speed and it doesn't work
- Batman's place on the world is unclear, some scenes allude to a retired bats, others seem to indicate that he's new to the scene, some scenes even do both
- there's very little actual Batman v Superman
- the resolution to the fight felt stupid and unnatural
- Jesse fucking Eisenberg, seriously.
- the story is a mess, it never find a rhythm, a beat. Snyder seems to be more concerned with showing certain shots than making those shots make sense in the story, a story that seems to be shifting during the movie, like he doesn't know what story he wants to tell.
- Amy Adams is a plank, there's no emotional connection to Lois Lane, whatsoever
I enjoyed the movie for what it is, a Zack Snyder superheromovie. Go in expecting that, and you won't leave disappointed.
TheSlySoul
Member
I would not take kids to go see this.
Kids get bored with anything that does not hold attention for first 30 minutes, this takes 2 hours for anything to happen.
Kids get bored with anything that does not hold attention for first 30 minutes, this takes 2 hours for anything to happen.
I just got back from a screening and I get the feeling with the tone and the inevitable finale the creative forces behind the movie were torn between making the movie they wanted to make and making a 'superhero' movie. The end result is something I can't recommend to anyone. I wanted to like BvS but the good doesn't outweigh the bad.
Disclaimer: I actually like Man of Steel, and felt the movie got a lot right with Superman. The loose ends from that movie needed to be handled well in this movie. Well...
The haters were right: The movie's Batman dragging Superman into the darkness, not Superman pulling Batman into the light.
For all the talk of Superman inspiring "hope" in people and being a "savior", he does very little inspiring hope in people in this movie. Saving people and inspiring people are two separate things. Everything he does in this movie feels more like damage control for his battle with Zod in Metropolis than any real need or want to save and protect people. The Superman of Grant Morrison's All Star Superman who stops to talk a girl down from committing suicide is nowhere in this depiction.
Batman's an easier character to write because his world is a dark reflection of our own filled with psychopaths, genocidal maniacs and two-faced politicians. Superman's world is better than that merely by his existence.
is not something I want to see in a Superman movie. Batman (and the vils of this world) have brought Superman down to our level, a Superman without hope, which isn't the point of the character.
P.S. Luthor was written fine, but Eisenberg was a horrible casting decision. If you listen to the dialogue and ignore Eisenberg's performance, there's a decent Luthor in there, but the A-typical casting choice was a hit and a miss.
The haters were right: The movie's Batman dragging Superman into the darkness, not Superman pulling Batman into the light.
For all the talk of Superman inspiring "hope" in people and being a "savior", he does very little inspiring hope in people in this movie. Saving people and inspiring people are two separate things. Everything he does in this movie feels more like damage control for his battle with Zod in Metropolis than any real need or want to save and protect people. The Superman of Grant Morrison's All Star Superman who stops to talk a girl down from committing suicide is nowhere in this depiction.
Batman's an easier character to write because his world is a dark reflection of our own filled with psychopaths, genocidal maniacs and two-faced politicians. Superman's world is better than that merely by his existence.
Having a scene with a suicide bomber killing people in the Senate with Superman in it
P.S. Luthor was written fine, but Eisenberg was a horrible casting decision. If you listen to the dialogue and ignore Eisenberg's performance, there's a decent Luthor in there, but the A-typical casting choice was a hit and a miss.
Dash_Riprock
Member
I still can't wrap my head around Eisenberg's casting. Were they really hoping lightning would strike twice like with Ledger?
I assume "zany" Lex (I haven't seen the film yet) was written in the script long before Eisenberg was ever considered, so they had to look for actors to fit the particular style they were going for, for better or worse.
Sorta like how James Spader was wasted on AoU's god-awful snark-meister version of Ultron. For fucks sake, Whedon.
Sorta like how James Spader was wasted on AoU's god-awful snark-meister version of Ultron. For fucks sake, Whedon.
It sure doesn't sound that way. I was listening to the dialogue and ignoring his performance, and it's definitely classic post-Crisis Lex Luthor that was written in the screenplay, I think Eisenberg's casting and his and Snyder's decisions were theirs.
That would make sense.
It's kind of like the opposite of how I feel about Bruce. Lex does very Lex things, but doesn't act like my idea of Lex. Bruce does not very Bruce things, but acts like my idea of Bruce. If that makes any sense.
The somewhat but not really non sequitur quotes and repetition is what would make me believe that they had this in mind in the first place. Unless that was ad-libbed by Eisenberg.
Lee Chaolan
Member
Totally agree Luthor felt a lot like the Joker in scenes.
Enjoyed the movie for the most part even if it dragged on a little too long until the meat of the action.
Enjoyed the movie for the most part even if it dragged on a little too long until the meat of the action.
I hate that, it's the same kind of crap-out Marvel pulled with Mandarin in Iron Man 3 / that later short film with Ben Kinglsey's character. Either do it right or don't do it at all.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Well, (general spoilers for movie)
He says his father was East German and had to wave flowers as tyrants. Obviously he escaped at some point but the character is not known for being a German originally, especially the "running for POTUS" versions. Considering he gets a shaved head at the end I see no indication that his dad was the real villain - this is straight up lex luthor, just a different take on him.
I honestly don't see how there's a difference.
Considering that the father is dead. He's Lex Luthor for all intents and purposes.
Have you even watched it? He says he loved the film but also hated a few stuff.
This movie is only as good as Paul Blart Mall Cop
Hey, that's actually a really enjoyable movie.
ShemhazaiX
Member
Ugh this movie is awful! This isn't my Batman at all. And Superman was utter shite! What the fuck were they doing with Lex? I don't want to see the Joker / Riddler as Lex Luthor. Hate the pacing and editing. Lois is just a plot device.
Ugh fire Snyder, DC or you're fucked.
So glad I've never seen this movie.
I will not stand for this insult against Speed Racer.
Huh? I just thought I was reading your thoughts after seeing it, yet you end your post saying you're glad you haven't seen it?
Go see the movie so you know what you're talking about.
Agreed, at least Speed Racer was trying to be fun. Zack Snyder's too concerned with sucking all the joy in Batman and Superman teaming up for it to be fun.
Thatonemoor
Member
Guess I can talk about my opinion now. Had a really weird night. Anyway there isn't much of anything that I liked in this movie. Yeah Ben Affleck is good as batman but this version of batman is basically the kill you with no remorse, all-star batman, version and I can't get behind that. The whole point of batman is that he doesn't kill. Also got to mention that he only takes on one guy that was an actual bad guy in this movie.
So yeah Ben Affleck is good at acting like batman but this isn't a well written version of batman. Also I feel like the thing that was really dragging down this movie for me was the dialogue. I can't count how many times there were lines that could have been thrown away and completely forgotten. Most of the stuff Luthor says is metaphorical nonsense instead of an actual conversation. And alot of Bruce's and Alfred's conversation feel the same way sometimes. On the superman side of things I feel that some gaf impressions werent right about some things but we're right about others. Like there is a scene when
But other then this scene he doesn't feel like superman. He feels like this uninterested moppy guy. Which really makes me dislike him in the movie.
Also what alot of critics have been saying about the movies editing and pacing are right. It feels like a jumbled mess for about a hour and a half. The only things that are consistent are the fights scenes. The now infamous
comes out of nowhere. And the
just feels straight up bizarre.
There are alot more problems with this movie and it isnt good imo by any stretch of the word. But with that said I love the shit out of this movie. It is thoroughly in the so bad it's gooD category for me. I'd watch it ten more times just to see all the silly stuff happen while everyone is all super serious. Would definitely like to see this again. Hope it does well. I want to see the sequel to this mess lol.
The guys he went after in the truck chase seen were only on Luthor's payroll and weren't doing anything particularly wrong except being heavily armed.
So yeah Ben Affleck is good at acting like batman but this isn't a well written version of batman. Also I feel like the thing that was really dragging down this movie for me was the dialogue. I can't count how many times there were lines that could have been thrown away and completely forgotten. Most of the stuff Luthor says is metaphorical nonsense instead of an actual conversation. And alot of Bruce's and Alfred's conversation feel the same way sometimes. On the superman side of things I feel that some gaf impressions werent right about some things but we're right about others. Like there is a scene when
superman is following around Bruce but sees on the TV that he needs to save a little girl stuck in a building. That is something superman would do.
Also what alot of critics have been saying about the movies editing and pacing are right. It feels like a jumbled mess for about a hour and a half. The only things that are consistent are the fights scenes. The now infamous
Nightmare scene preluding to Darkseid
Mecha-Flash scene after it
There are alot more problems with this movie and it isnt good imo by any stretch of the word. But with that said I love the shit out of this movie. It is thoroughly in the so bad it's gooD category for me. I'd watch it ten more times just to see all the silly stuff happen while everyone is all super serious. Would definitely like to see this again. Hope it does well. I want to see the sequel to this mess lol.
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