ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Define fun? People use that word as if we have some universal understanding when you should really explain what bothered you.
Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son
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Father_Brain
Banned
I don't think any execs said that. Maybe you're thinking of the fake interview; correct me if I'm wrong.
Afaik is it not that different in the comics. Cyborg doesn't have the best reaction to his new life
That part reminded me of Hellraiser. Which is a direction for Darkseid and Apokolips I wouldn't hate if Snyder wasn't involved.
It also really annoyed me that Lex Luthor essentially gives the Justice League their code names and symbols. Also why and how did he learn everybodies identity? That gave me flashbacks of the shitty Kevin Smith script from a while back...... Cringe worthy.....
ambar_hitman
Member
Read my post:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=199124486&highlight=#post199124486
Superman isn't dead. His heartbeat has slowed down so much that it is a coma.
80s Bad Guy
Banned
BvS is definitely a flawed film, but AoU has a 75% RT score, and even. Iron Man 2 (which I would call a terrible movie) sits at a 72%! The level of criticism this movie (and MoS before it) gets is so far beyond how we look at those movies. I understand why that is, and it's probably fair, but it's not nonsense.
I just wonder why future Flash tried to warn Bruce about Superman. But I couldn't make it all out. He should have warned him that letting Lex have access to the ship will eventually bring Darkseid down.
Oh good points. Thanks.
More_Badass
Member
Oh, yeah, that whole scene was fantastic. I was just ticking off the Arkham moves as it was happening. Gun jamming, Batcaw clothesline, knife dodge and counter, environmental takedowns, dual counters, bone-breaking finishers
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
The whole Martha scene could have been done a lot better. I understand why it's there. Bruce has been living his whole life believing he is indirectly getting people he is close to killed whether it was his family, coworkers, Robin?, etc. He's feeling a lot of responsibility he himself is failing to control. I don't mind Bruce and Clark settling their difference just by the fact that Clark's mother's name is Martha who is going to die because Superman is in the same position Bruce is.
The execution tho.
The execution tho.
lol speaking of the games, the movie at least got me to just pick up the season pass for it.
Might as well now that all the DLC is out.
ambar_hitman
Member
He never said Superman. He said Bruce was always right about HIM. Him can be anyone, Superman, Joker, Lex, Darksied, anyone.
Also Future Flash doesn't know where is he in time line. That's why he asks: "Am I too soon Bruce, too soon?" He realises he is way before time and hence Bruce cannot make much sense. That's why he ends it with: Find us all, find us.
It was probably his first time travel, maybe during some battle, so he can't figure out.
80s Bad Guy
Banned
I have no idea. This version of Lex Zuckerberg is the worst. He's not really a genius, he's not even really evil. Letting his assistant die just felt like oversight.
I have to assume Darkseid contacted him somehow and of course Lex would help him.
Since I'm on Lex my biggest nitpick of the film is that he should have lost his hair wading into the radiated water on the ship. Not a dumb shaving.
Good points again! I want to talk about this all day because it was my favorite part of the movie. He didn't need a backstory or character origin, just show Flash coming back in time and let's roll.
It's a good idea but the execution is just mangled, and it didn't feel earned. It reminds me of "Welcome to the Planet" line from Man of Steel, except with Batman v Superman I feel like someone worked backwards from the 'my mother's name is Martha, too' concept - only when that scene happened did I see why they went with the total non sequitur of Martha Kent getting kidnapped.
Those percentages don't mean what you might think they mean. BvS' actual average score is a little over 5/10. Iron Man 2 and Age of Ultron fare better -- 6.5 and 6.7 -- but do you really think that's so egregiously higher than BvS that critics must have it in for DC vs. Marvel films?
And personally, I would say BvS succumbs to similar problems in Ultron or IM2, but does a much worse job of them.
doesnt he mention Louis though?
ambar_hitman
Member
Here is what I think:
JL movies are going to be a mixture of Flashpoint and Injustice storylines, with Darkseid being heavily involved like New 52. In future, Joker kills Lois, thus pissing off Superman, and he becomes a tyrant like Injustice storyline. Batman forms the resistance.
Flash then discovers time travel via speedforce, and then decides to warn Batman to prevent all that from happening.
So that dream was actually a scene from the future or an alternate universe where Superman is a tyrant and working with Darkseid. Bruce sees it due to Flash time traveling around him.
I think non-comics guys aren't ready for Flashpoint or Injustice storylines, especially after getting used to simplistic Marvel movies. Look at the number of critics who got that dream sequence horribly wrong and equated it with Sucker Punch dreams.
They need to explain Multiverse a lot better for normal or casual fans.
For comics nerds like me, I SAY BRING IT ON.
Yes he does. Because her death causes Injustice storyline to take place.
Yep, much as I hate Iron Man 2, the way BvS does the teasing stuff is WAY worse as it actually full on stops the movie for it
Glass Shark
Banned
You know, I don't remember Superman Returns sticking with me, but BvS makes me want to go back and watch it again because I'm sure it has to be loads better than this.
80s Bad Guy
Banned
I don't think critics have it in for these films, I was just trying to say it's clear the way we look at these franchises is very different. I think in general the DC films are held to a higher standard because they take themselves so seriously. And I'm not even saying it's a good or bad thing, just a little unfair.
Maybe TDKR also has this issue, but I think that's a worse film than this one.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Synder: ...but it looked cool, right?
It isn't because you want to see it again. It's because your brain wants to make sense of it, and it thinks that a second viewing will help, but with a film that starts throwing shit at you with no sense of structure in the second half I don't expect a second viewing will help.
This is my problem with trailers; like really, who the fuck thought it was ok to reveal Doomsday/Zod? Or that scene with WW showing up to save Bruce? Or him stopping Superman's punch?
Shit like that, let the crowd see it for the first time. It's goddamn stupid.
As a Superman fan I like to pretend he didn't just straight up murder that fool.
More_Badass
Member
Guy probably lived. This is a universe where some armor protects a regular man being crashed through a building and slammed around with such force that it shatters concrete
Wonder Woman showing up would be the only thing I would show honestly. It's a pretty big deal and it would put a lot of butts in seats. I swear 90% of the reason why my sister is going to see it is because of her.
Glass Shark
Banned
It's weird how this movie simultaneously treats the audience like idiots and leaves things completely unexplained. Like the courtroom scene where the jar is labeled and Lex's empty seat is labeled. The surveillance videos of the metahumans with convenient character logos on the folders. Bruce's lovely email to Diana "It IS you!"
And then you have man-bat, parademons, the bizarre Flash time traveling, Knightmare, Darkseid logo, etc.
And then you have man-bat, parademons, the bizarre Flash time traveling, Knightmare, Darkseid logo, etc.
80s Bad Guy
Banned
Well, Bruce invented Crossfit, so he has that going for him.
TheSlySoul
Member
"Add some dialogue about that guy not being dead"
I had to resist laughing.
I cannot wait for the Rifftrax of it.
It's sad because this is true. I swear this is how he directs. No regards about how it would fit into the story, the pacing or how it impacts the characters. It's like a comic book nerd going "Oh man imagine a folder showing all the Justice League members?!" and "Wouldn't it be dope to see the Death of Superman?" and just mish mashing it all together and hoping for the best.
This is a universe where everyone is Batman? I won't even argue because the movie is dumb enough for that to be true.
BronsonLee
Member
Almost everything was explained, now you're just picking at small things.
I'd imagine he went head first and protected the guy.
I mean, it's a plot point that he didn't kill anyone during the attack so I thought he'd lie about killing him.
Nolan's trilogy also took itself seriously, and were surely more accomplished attempts at making dramas out of superhero stories than Snyder's two films have been.
I don't think DC or Snyder is held to a higher standard because they go for more serious material. I think critics hold all superhero movies to the same standard, which is that they should be fun -- that is, not necessarily funny, but enjoyable and entertaining. Marvel probably clears the bar easier because even if the movies themselves aren't especially great there's a sense of charm and heart that (imo) is really absent in Man of Steel or BvS. And even Nolan's movies, as relatively dark and grounded as they were, were also exciting to watch. When I saw TDK at midnight, the crowd in my theater SCREAMED when it hit the end credits. It's not a drama/comedy, light/dark thing; it's an excitement thing.
I think Suicide Squad -- assuming the trailers aren't totally misleading and the movie is actually good -- will be another good example of how to do dark and grounded but still make it fun and exciting. And I guess for many critics, and I know for me for sure, the big flaw in Snyder's two movies is that they just don't inspire that level of fun or excitement. I don't walk out of the theater going, "Holy shit! I have to see what's next right fucking now!"
Just saw it. My thoughts:
1. The movie definitely had pacing issues and plodded along especially in the middle. But it was not bad as as the RT score makes it out to be. I rather enjoyed it in fact.
2. Plot was extremely contrived. Supes fighting Batman made no sense at all and Batman is supposed to be the smart guy so him not figuring out Luthor's plot was disappointing.
3. Doomsday pops out and does absolutely nothing and the US government fires on him first because he looks like a monster? Movie spends so much time building up to the titular fight but can't spend half a minute showing Doomsday tearing up the city?
4. Wonder Woman was awesome.
5. What the fuck is up with the Flash having a different actor than the TV series? If they're trying to do a MCU with the DC properties then their execution is failing so hard. I mean, we've already had countless Superman and Batman movies that are clearly not canon to this universe but those are in the past so arguably it's fine. But Flash is showing on TV now, for fuck's sake.
6. I'm no comic book reader but I'm pretty clued in to geek culture and yet I have zero idea who the second dude in the metahuman line up is. CY who?
7. Batfleck is great. I think he's my favourite Batman amongst all the Batmans so far.
8. The dark and serious tone of the movie is fine and is a nice contrast to the generally campier MCU.
Edit: Oh and how many times do we have to see Bruce's parents get killed in a Batman movie? Definitely the worst way to start the movie.
1. The movie definitely had pacing issues and plodded along especially in the middle. But it was not bad as as the RT score makes it out to be. I rather enjoyed it in fact.
2. Plot was extremely contrived. Supes fighting Batman made no sense at all and Batman is supposed to be the smart guy so him not figuring out Luthor's plot was disappointing.
3. Doomsday pops out and does absolutely nothing and the US government fires on him first because he looks like a monster? Movie spends so much time building up to the titular fight but can't spend half a minute showing Doomsday tearing up the city?
4. Wonder Woman was awesome.
5. What the fuck is up with the Flash having a different actor than the TV series? If they're trying to do a MCU with the DC properties then their execution is failing so hard. I mean, we've already had countless Superman and Batman movies that are clearly not canon to this universe but those are in the past so arguably it's fine. But Flash is showing on TV now, for fuck's sake.
6. I'm no comic book reader but I'm pretty clued in to geek culture and yet I have zero idea who the second dude in the metahuman line up is. CY who?
7. Batfleck is great. I think he's my favourite Batman amongst all the Batmans so far.
8. The dark and serious tone of the movie is fine and is a nice contrast to the generally campier MCU.
Edit: Oh and how many times do we have to see Bruce's parents get killed in a Batman movie? Definitely the worst way to start the movie.
About that scene. Why is everything so brutal? Why did the flash have to slam that dude into the ATM machine? He couldn't do some cool Flash shit and tie him up, or something? The Aquaman scene was 30 seconds too long and became awkward. He then hits the camera for no reason and sonic booms away. The fuckery......
Knuckle Sandwich
Member
I remember Nolanbat shooting missles at that truck and killing the driver and Talia. I also remember him killing all those ninjas and letting R'as die in BB.
Edit: He also tackled Two Face to death, right? lol.
The TV and Movie universe are separated and it was never intended to combine them as the tone is totally different.
thehypocrite
Member
Aquaman hits the camera for no reason? Don't you see the way humans treat the oceans, why there's a reason they haven't interacted with us in the universe? You expected him to pose for the surveillance drone?
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Right after the Doomsday trailer hit, either an executive or a PR guy was hitting Twitter or some other form of media and kept talking about how the trailer barely revealed anything. It wasn't a fake interview.
Which is a stupid decision to make. Either make them the same universe or don't show them at the same time. How hard is this?
Grant Gustin Flash would be so hilariously out of place in the Snyder films
The movies are not the same as the TV universe. They've said that repeatedly.
Why? I'm glad they're not doing stupid stuff like blocking Batman's supporting cast from appearing on JLU because there was another Batman cartoon running. People can understand there being multiple takes on a character.
Poodlestrike
Banned
They're not, actually. Flash and Arrow are totally unconnected to the DCEU. Ditto Supergirl and Gotham.
You don't get it like Zack Snyder does. That isn't "their tone".
Their tone is bleak, dark, and uncompromisingly violent. You can't expect the Flash to subdue a guy by easily tying him up. He has to HURT him. If he's lucky, maybe kill him through some "manslaughter" loophole. That's what real heroes do. Violence is the one and only answer.
RellyRell28
Banned
Do people really have that big of a problem with Batman killing cause I sure as hell didn't. This maybe my favorite version of Batman to date. I can't wait for the rater R Blu-ray. I hope he straight up decapitates someone in it.
Poodlestrike
Banned
This is entirely wrong and wholly misses the point of the actual movie.
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