Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son

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border said:
It also struck me as weird that Batman has supposedly been operating in Gotham for 2 decades and this is the first time Superman has taken a look into it.
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They never really did much of anything with that setup, beyond superficial mentions and references. People in BvS act as if Batman had shown up two weeks ago for the first time. Wasted potential.
 
BewareTheBatsie said:
I do hope they might drop the electronic filter for Batman's voice in future films. Is it that hard for Ben Affleck to try and make a different, deeper type of voice between Batman and Bruce Wayne a la Kevin Conroy?
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Honestly, this is one of the changes I like. Much like Lois finding out about Clark's powers before he became Superman in MoS, it's just one of those things that makes more sense and is more respectable than the typical version of things.

Batman making some fake, deep voice when modulators are so readily available is kind of dumb. Especially since his cowl is already equipped with a bunch of other tech.
 
So Snyder's Batman just casually murders a couple dozen dudes. With guns. Killed people with guns from the Batmobile, killed people with guns from the Batplane/wing, used badguy's guns to shoot and kill other badguys. So.. whatever. Snyder's Batman kills people with guns.

At least Diana was a boss. She was clearly the only one of the trinity that knows how to fight a big bad. And they didn't try and force Bats to trade blows with Doomsday.

There was a halfway decent movie buried in there somewhere.
 
jett said:
But after Superman arrives, Lex calls his goons to give them the death sentence and Batman answers. Martha is all up and rescued by then. Then he releases Doomsday. Seems like Superman powerwalked his way to Lex.
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Whoops, forgot about the phone call. I maintain the implication is the events happen concurrently. My issue with the events had more to do with Superman trusting Batman to save his mother. It's a huge leap of faith on Supes part.
 
jett said:
I haven't seen SM3 in years so I can't accurately, but I for sure enjoyed that thing more than BvS the last time I watched it.

spidey_dance.gif


Get it, Pete.
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I think the one thing that ruins the movie is that you need to be a fan of the DC comics to fully grasp what the fuck is going on in the characters heads at times. A lot of minimal explanation is used for the more casual/wider audience and that doesn't really work with a lot of the plot threads that go nowhere and other things that make a Zack Snyder film a Zack Snyder film.

Also I thought the Flash appearing to Batman was one of the more "woah I wasn't expecting that!" moments and I only really found it awesome because I love the Flash. While the audience behind me were all saying things like "What the fuck was that?" and "Who was that? Why was he there?" whereas when the Flash was shown on a computer screen they were like "That's the Flash!". So I can't tell if Zack Snyder wanted people questioning who it was that appeared to Bruce or if they wanted everyone to know who it was.
 
Overall enjoyed the movie but two things really bugged me. Eisenberg miscast as Lex Luther. It's seemed like he was playing something between The Riddler and The Joker. He was not the right pick for Lex and the direction they took his character was a missed opportunity. I also hated all the Damsel in distress moments with Lois. It happened way too frequently especially towards the end. Affleck did a great job as Batman in IMO looking forward to Suicide Squad.
 
broncobuster said:
Whoops, forgot about the phone call. I maintain the implication is the events happen concurrently. My issue with the events had more to do with Superman trusting Batman to save his mother. It's a huge leap of faith on Supes part.
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A better, though not by much reading, is that Superman wanted to hold off for a bit to give Batman time to get Martha safe. Although that doesn't really work either.
 
BronsonLee said:
The Martha thing is one of the rare things in the movie that works.
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I thought it worked better in concept than in execution. I was like, whatever I'll go with it...until they did a replay of the flashback to when she was killed. I got it the first time. Replaying it at all, much less that much of it, actually took me out of that moment completely. Maybe it's because I was just deathly weary of flashbacks at that point.

Speaking of which, the first person shot of Martha when she was, um, shot, with the pearls draped over the gun, was unintentionally hilarious.

border said:
It amuses me that they immediately ruin the moment by cutting to a shot of Martha Wayne's grave, just so the dumb-dumbs in the audience can understand what's going on.
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Yup, this. We can't be trusted to remember Batman's history (despite the constant references and flashback), so they to replay it again.
 
SeppOCE said:
I think the one thing that ruins the movie is that you need to be a fan of the DC comics to fully grasp what the fuck is going on in the characters heads at times. A lot of minimal explanation is used for the more casual/wider audience and that doesn't really work with a lot of the plot threads that go nowhere and other things that make a Zack Snyder film a Zack Snyder film.

Also I thought the Flash appearing to Batman was one of the more "woah I wasn't expecting that!" moments and I only really found it awesome because I love the Flash. While the audience behind me were all saying things like "What the fuck was that?" and "Who was that? Why was he there?" whereas when the Flash was shown on a computer screen they were like "That's the Flash!". So I can't tell if Zack Snyder wanted people questioning who it was that appeared to Bruce or if they wanted everyone to know who it was.
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I agree.
If you're a DC fan, this is all sorts of awesome.
What makes me nervous is that it was a little bit TOO nerdy. General audiences are going to be confused as fuck, children won't like it either.
 
SeppOCE said:
I think the one thing that ruins the movie is that you need to be a fan of the DC comics to fully grasp what the fuck is going on in the characters heads at times. A lot of minimal explanation is used for the more casual/wider audience and that doesn't really work with a lot of the plot threads that go nowhere and other things that make a Zack Snyder film a Zack Snyder film.

Also I thought the Flash appearing to Batman was one of the more "woah I wasn't expecting that!" moments and I only really found it awesome because I love the Flash. While the audience behind me were all saying things like "What the fuck was that?" and "Who was that? Why was he there?" whereas when the Flash was shown on a computer screen they were like "That's the Flash!". So I can't tell if Zack Snyder wanted people questioning who it was that appeared to Bruce or if they wanted everyone to know who it was.
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I definitely think there should have been something more of a hint that it was the Flash the first time since common movie-goers probably wouldn't get it. I know he's wearing something over his costume, but showing the lightning bolt emblem could have really helped.
 
denx said:
So what was the deal with Flash in this movie? Did he travel back in time from that future Batman saw in his vision to warn him about Superman and create the Justice League? I think that was the point of that scene but maybe I'm reading it wrong.
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That's how I took it. Lois dies, superman loses his shit, darkseid invades and pairs up with superman, superman kills batman, and flash goes back in time to make sure batman kills superman before the death of Lois.
 
GhaleonEB said:
I thought it worked better in concept than in exectuion. They didn't need to have the same names - Superman could have just said "mother" and pleaded for his mother to be saved. That would have done it given Batman's parent issues, the coincidence of the same name wasn't needed. But I was like, whatever I'll go with it...until they did a replay of the flashback to when she was killed. I got it the first time. Replaying it at all, much less that much of it, actually took me out of that moment completely. Maybe it's because I was just deathly weary of flashbacks at that point.

Speaking of which, the first person shot of Martha when she was, um, shot, with the pearls draped over the gun, was unintentionally hilarious.
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Well, Martha Kent and Martha Wayne have always shared the same first name. That wasn't an invention of this movie.

Clearly that is one of those observations that got worked into a big plot-point. Like Goyer or Terrio found out about it, or were already thinking about it, and went "yeah, we'll use it".

The pearls are an iconic bit of imagery for the death of Batman's parents. Every version of that incident seems to hinge on the thief attempting to take them, and they become symbolic to Bruce.
 
GhaleonEB said:
I thought it worked better in concept than in exectuion. They didn't need to have the same names - Superman could have just said "mother" and pleaded for his mother to be saved. That would have done it given Batman's parent issues, the coincidence of the same name wasn't needed. But I was like, whatever I'll go with it...until they did a replay of the flashback to when she was killed. I got it the first time. Replaying it at all, much less that much of it, actually took me out of that moment completely. Maybe it's because I was just deathly weary of flashbacks at that point.
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I'm pretty sure their mothers have had the same name for decades and decades, so they kept it and rolled with it, which I thought was good.

You're totally right though, didn't need the flashback at all. Bruce freaking the fuck out was more than enough.
 
border said:
I cannot tell if this film is utterly riddled with plot holes, or if I am just missing a ton of vital information because I kinda lost interest in following the plot. Here's several issues off the top of my head:

How close are Metropolis and Gotham supposed to be? I thought the two cities were supposed to be relatively far apart, but I guess they are like right across the bay from one another? Why does Lois Lane need a plane ticket to go to Gotham in one scene, but arrives reasonably fast in a helicopter later? How many miles of open country did Batman cross while Doomsday was chasing him back to Gotham?

How did Batman find Martha Kent?

How did Superman and Batman find out each others' secret identities?

Why did Lois chuck the kryptonite blade down the well? How is it that she decided to retrieve it even before she knew what was going on with Doomsday?

Why would Luthor chuck Lois off a roof when he has no indication that Superman even knows about the peril she's in?

Is the ability to exclusively hear his loved ones in peril a part of Superman's abilities? Or is that some bullshit thrown into this film and then immediately disregarded?
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1. Batflec traced the mercenary's cellphone after he copied it in the first part of the movie.

2. Superman overheard Bruce Wayne snooping at Luthor's house and connected the dots......?

3. Chucked it down the well because she doesn't know how else to dispose of superman's weakness. And no fucking clue about her knowing bout doomsday, so.... ??

4. Luthor doesn't care because like batman, his super power is white privilege (Jokes. But really, he is super rich and already initiated a terrorist attack, in addition to creating a kryptonian monster so its not like 1 more murder makes a difference). Either that or he is just that damn sure of himself, which is kind of what I was feeling about his character.

5. Superman has selective hearing...... I guess. I mean, he did hear Lois underwater, which is impressive, but was she tapping morse code, or did he recognize the sound of her knuckles tapping stone underwater....??? Somehow didn't hear his mom though so either she was out cold or he wasn't paying attention (like when he failed to detect the bomb at the hearing).
 
-Plasma Reus- said:
I agree.
If you're a DC fan, this is all sorts of awesome.
What makes me nervous is that it was a little bit TOO nerdy. General audiences are going to be confused as fuck, children won't like it either.
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Weird, as a DC fan this was disappointing.

"What, that isn't what Batman would do"
"That's not the Superman I know"
"Wonder Woman's pretty cool"
"What are they doing with Lex Luthor"

I felt like it hindered my enjoyment if anything. "They're really going to do Death of Superman, like this?", "The Dark Knight Returns handled that a lot better", "The Dark Knight Returns handled that a lot better, too", "You wanted to make a Dark Knight Returns movie, didn't you Zack?".

I'd probably like it more if I could just sit back and enjoy Batfleck as the Punisher.
 
BronsonLee said:
I'm pretty sure their mothers have had the same name for decades and decades, so they kept it and rolled with it, which I thought was good.

You're totally right though, didn't need the flashback at all. Bruce freaking the fuck out was more than enough.
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Oh, okay. I didn't know that, thanks. Feeling kinda dumb now, you can tell I'm not a comic book reader. :lol

I'll reduce my objection to just the replay of the flashbacks, then.
 
I thought the quirky Lex who was high off his own shit was a good start to the character. As the film moved on he became more and more deranged until he was generic villain #6. Just another psychopath who belongs across the bay in Arkham. Joker lite.
 
jett said:
They never really did much of anything with that setup, beyond superficial mentions and references. People in BvS act as if Batman had shown up two weeks ago for the first time. Wasted potential.
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Haha I didn't even think about that -- Batman beats up one guy and it makes the front page of the newspaper, despite the fact that he has been beating up dudes since the late 90's. You'd think that the papers wouldn't be giving him as much press since he's pretty much just another cop at that point.

Yet at the same time a cop tries to blast the shit out of him with a shotgun? I thought everybody was pretty comfortable with Batman's own brand of vigilante justice.
 
SeppOCE said:
Also I thought the Flash appearing to Batman was one of the more "woah I wasn't expecting that!" moments and I only really found it awesome because I love the Flash. While the audience behind me were all saying things like "What the fuck was that?" and "Who was that? Why was he there?" whereas when the Flash was shown on a computer screen they were like "That's the Flash!". So I can't tell if Zack Snyder wanted people questioning who it was that appeared to Bruce or if they wanted everyone to know who it was.
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Okay, I have a question about that. Because I'm preeeeety sure that was a dream. During that scene Flash shows up, gives the warning, dissappears, and then Bruce wakes up. Right?

I think it was a dream about a warning of the alternate timeline w/ the parademons and whatnot.
 
Killthee said:
That's how I took it. Lois dies, superman loses his shit, darkseid invades and pairs up with superman, superman kills batman, and flash goes back in time to make sure batman kills superman before the death of Lois.
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You're mostly on point but I don't think Flash traveled back to tell Batman to kill Superman. From what it seems like, Flash fucked up and traveled back too far, going to a time where the Justice League hasn't formed yet (I think he even says something to that degree himself) and was trying to just warn Bruce overall to try and prevent Lois' death, not kill Supes.
 
Only thing about Lex that annoyed me was how he betrayed Mercy. Cold.

Otherwise thought he was spot on. A modern take on his classic wacky superscientist silver age persona.
 
border said:
Haha I didn't even think about that -- Batman beats up one guy and it makes the front page of the newspaper, despite the fact that he has been beating up dudes since the late 90's. You'd think that the papers wouldn't be giving him as much press since he's pretty much just another cop at that point.

Yet at the same time a cop tries to blast the shit out of him with a shotgun? I thought everybody was pretty comfortable with his own brand of vigilante justice.
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That was a confused part of the plot, yeah.

The newspaper sort of works, I guess, but the narrative makes it clear that it isn't the first time he's 'bat-branded' someone so it being front-page news is a bit weird.

Then he's referred to as a 'bat-vigilante' instead of just as the Batman. The Bat-Signal is all covered up as if it isn't used. But it seems like Batman has been active for 20 years, but Snyder is trying to take story-beats from The Dark Knight Returns, wherein Batman comes out of retirement. So it's strange how the universe reacts to him. That police officer is trying to shoot him on sight, so are relations between Batman and the police strained? This is after he has the bat-signal, though. Is there a different commissioner of police?

It's just a mess.
 
border said:
Yet at the same time a cop tries to blast the shit out of him with a shotgun? I thought everybody was pretty comfortable with Batman's own brand of vigilante justice.
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That was just as bad. Batman even has his cop-approved bat-signal in this movie.

This flick is really poorly thought out.
 
So I presume Lex was going to shutdown Doomsday if Batman succeeded in killing Supes? But if Doomsday was the last ditch against Superman, how would he then kill Doomsday?

Then again, he was contacted by Darkseid right? So maybe he just wanted to wreak havoc
 
Alienous said:
Weird, as a DC fan this was disappointing.

"What, that isn't what Batman would do"
"That's not the Superman I know"
"Wonder Woman's pretty cool"
"What are they doing with Lex Luthor"

I felt like it hindered my enjoyment if anything. "They're really going to do Death of Superman, like this?", "The Dark Knight Returns handled that a lot better", "The Dark Knight Returns handled that a lot better, too", "You wanted to make a Dark Knight Returns movie, didn't you Zack?".

I'd probably like it more if I could just sit back and enjoy Batfleck as the Punisher.
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The only thing I didn't appreciate about Batman was the fact that he didn't care to do enough research about Superman, and as a result is willing to KILL him (that's insane to me). I pointed this problem out before the movie was released, I never liked this idea.

This superman is different in many ways, but he was undoubtedly more Superman than he was in Man of Steel. He caused no destruction, aside from when he was fighting Batman. Hell, I think he actually caused less destruction when he was battling Doomsday. Aside from this, all he literally did was save people.
But it felt like he was a man who wanted to become a superman, and only succeeded at the end of this movie, and I kind of liked it.

Lex was fucking crazy. Should have gotten rid of him.
 
Mangoverboard said:
Only thing about Lex that annoyed me was how he betrayed Mercy. Cold.

Otherwise thought he was spot on. A modern take on his classic wacky superscientist silver age persona.
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I remember think about mercy for awhile. I was like damn that's cold. Thought about it for atleast 2 mins after.

Wiped my forehead off and decided it was time to move on
 
NoTacos said:
Mercy 2.0 incoming? She is like a robot/cyborg, isn't she?
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Mercy in the comics is revealed to be an Amazon too, meaning she probably could survive such an explosion. I hope so, I've already expressed my displeasure at the waste of her character, given we don't even get a fight scene. Hell no mention that she is Lex's bodyguard either.
 
-Plasma Reus- said:
I agree.
If you're a DC fan, this is all sorts of awesome.
What makes me nervous is that it was a little bit TOO nerdy. General audiences are going to be confused as fuck, children won't like it either.
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DC fan here. Major one.

That's one reason why I hate this film so much. It butchers some of my favorite DC heroes.

This is a DC universe whose creators have said things like "Martian Manhunter is too silly" for their universe, that The Flash TV series has a tone that "doesn't fit" their universe, a DC universe that will never give us characters like Plastic Man or Hawkman or Blue Beetle or Booster Gold.

A universe without Booster Gold is not a universe I wish to live in.
 
Alienous said:
That was a confused part of the plot, yeah.

The newspaper sort of works, I guess, but the narrative makes it clear that it isn't the first time he's 'bat-branded' someone so it being front-page news is a bit weird.

Then he's referred to as a 'bat-vigilante' instead of just as the Batman. The Bat-Signal is all covered up as if it isn't used. But it seems like Batman has been active for 20 years, but Snyder is trying to take story-beats from The Dark Knight Returns, wherein Batman comes out of retirement. So it's strange how the universe reacts to him. That police officer is trying to shoot him on sight, so are relations between Batman and the police strained? This is after he has the bat-signal, though. Is there a different commissioner of police?

It's just a mess.
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Clark Kent wants to write about the Bat vigilante that's been around for 20 years, to save poor people or something. But he's on football instead. I thought that was really riveting.
 
So did Lex also have Knightmares?

Also can someone help clear up the flash scene for me. Is it supposed to be from the future or another world? Couldn't hear too well since the audience applauded when he showed up.
 
SeppOCE said:
I think the one thing that ruins the movie is that you need to be a fan of the DC comics to fully grasp what the fuck is going on in the characters heads at times. A lot of minimal explanation is used for the more casual/wider audience and that doesn't really work with a lot of the plot threads that go nowhere and other things that make a Zack Snyder film a Zack Snyder film.

Also I thought the Flash appearing to Batman was one of the more "woah I wasn't expecting that!" moments and I only really found it awesome because I love the Flash. While the audience behind me were all saying things like "What the fuck was that?" and "Who was that? Why was he there?" whereas when the Flash was shown on a computer screen they were like "That's the Flash!". So I can't tell if Zack Snyder wanted people questioning who it was that appeared to Bruce or if they wanted everyone to know who it was.
Click to expand...

Only reason they knew it was the flash was because Lex likes to create fan art and personas for his metahumans more than Cisco Ramon does. The video folder thumbnail was a dead giveaway.

Only people who knew extensively about his time traveling ability connected the dots when he popped through the portal. It seemed like the average movie goer didn't even recognized how he is one of the few heroes that wears an armored red suit.

Didn't agree with them playing it off as a dream sequence though. That's what really misplaced it.
 
I enjoyed the movie. Was kinda slow at parts but overall I liked it. But I'm not a hardcore fan or anything, don't read any comics. The best was from bvs fight onwards. And when WW showed up it was legit.

Reading above, wow that's cool. I had no idea who that was.
 
Garlador said:
I hope we find out the Joker's mom is also named Martha. It would explain the one and only reason why this version of Batman hasn't killed him yet.
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It works if the theory that Leto's Joker is Jason Todd is true. Batman can't bring himself to kill his former partner.

Remember the scene where Wayne is talking to Alfred and says something about good guys not staying good. This would seem to be a direct reference to this Joker being Robin.
 
Batman has been doing his thing in Gotham for 20 years without anyone noticing. It wasn't until he branded some lowlife that he was outed. He built the bat signal and covered in up just in case someone needed to use it. After 20 years no one bothered using the signal since no one had a clue he existed.

I'm sure that is the story. His name is also Bat Vigilante and not Batman.
 
Lord Couture said:
It works if the theory that Leto's Joker is Jason Todd is true. Batman can't bring himself to kill his former partner.

Remember the scene where Wayne is talking to Alfred and says something about good guys not staying good. This would seem to be a direct reference to this Joker being Robin.
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Two-Face exists
 
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