I've seen this asked before and haven't seen a good answer yet. Lex wanted to kill Superman, but I'm not aware of any plan Lex had to stop Doomsday once Superman was dead.
Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son
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Hell no. Not with the thematic basis they decided to go with. So far, the DC universe is 2 for 2 for some of the worst written superhero films, but lets say there is a miracle and they suddenly get highly competent writers and directors to deliver on the rest of the universe. This is still the worst batman I've ever seen because he's a character I revile. The ending of BvS implies some character development on his part, but to me it's too little too late. But lets put that aside as well, and assume they course correct and he develops into a Batman I can tolerate. I still can't accept him as a cohesive whole. How he's behaved in BvS is just going to be a part of him, wherever he goes from here, and only a reboot can actually change it. There's no way he doesn't remain marred by this film.
So no. There is permanent damage done no matter what we say here, and I have no faith in the people in charge addressing the problems in the next movie given how they've dealt with the problems of MoS in Bvs\S.
SpanishExplorer
Member
Did Alfred dropping "phantasm" out of nowhere make you guys cringe too?
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Hard to believe considering the first thing he does is ram headfirst into a car, attach a grapplehook to it, swing it around and throw it into a second car. Plus, just straight up unloading on the other car with the front machine guns.
Ah-hem. I just want to clarify. It's not murder, it's manslaughter. That makes it okay.
/snyder
More_Badass
Member
It is an actual word used in appropriate context, even if it was also meant to be a reference/easter egg
SpanishExplorer
Member
I agree, it just felt a little forced to me. It was a little cool I guess.
Saw some people ridiculing the Martha thing but I thought it worked pretty well. Literally the only weakness Bruce has is his parents, everything he has done in his life up until now is because of his parents. Batman, I felt, saw Superman not as a human but just a force of nature that needed to be put in check or i'd swallow mankind whole.
When he was told that Martha was his mother's name, I think he finally saw that Superman was also a human like himself and not just some alien that could crush us. He was fighting with Batman to protect his mother and could have killed him multiple times but didn't because he wanted to save his mother and Batman.
Don't think Batman would feel okay knowing that he caused Superman's mother to be murdered since he knows firsthand what it feels like to have your parents killed.
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Something that I enjoyed about this Batman is that there's a reason for why the cops want to stop him. There's always a bit of suspension of disbelief when it comes to this in the comics for me. They want to stop him because he's a vigilante but he lives in a world with thousands of other vigilante superheroes running around and no one gives a shit about them. Gotham is the most fucked up city in the DC universe and they're the ones who are complaining about a vigilante giving them a helping hand? Fuck off, GCPD.
However, it felt natural that that cop would shot at Batman when he first saw him. Batman is kind of a bad dude in this world, his actions indirectly and something pretty much directly cause the deaths of some people. It very much felt like the city as a whole would probably not feel too at ease with Batman running around doing shit unchecked, much like Superman.
This, however, makes me wonder how they'll do the Gordon relationship. In BvS I don't buy that Gordon would be willing to help Batman out like he normally does, I see him actively trying to stop him.
When he was told that Martha was his mother's name, I think he finally saw that Superman was also a human like himself and not just some alien that could crush us. He was fighting with Batman to protect his mother and could have killed him multiple times but didn't because he wanted to save his mother and Batman.
Don't think Batman would feel okay knowing that he caused Superman's mother to be murdered since he knows firsthand what it feels like to have your parents killed.
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Something that I enjoyed about this Batman is that there's a reason for why the cops want to stop him. There's always a bit of suspension of disbelief when it comes to this in the comics for me. They want to stop him because he's a vigilante but he lives in a world with thousands of other vigilante superheroes running around and no one gives a shit about them. Gotham is the most fucked up city in the DC universe and they're the ones who are complaining about a vigilante giving them a helping hand? Fuck off, GCPD.
However, it felt natural that that cop would shot at Batman when he first saw him. Batman is kind of a bad dude in this world, his actions indirectly and something pretty much directly cause the deaths of some people. It very much felt like the city as a whole would probably not feel too at ease with Batman running around doing shit unchecked, much like Superman.
This, however, makes me wonder how they'll do the Gordon relationship. In BvS I don't buy that Gordon would be willing to help Batman out like he normally does, I see him actively trying to stop him.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
You having a grudge against Batman's character doesn't mean a movie will be bad. You use words like "damage" as if it's true. You feel slighted by the character, big deal, a lot seem to find him the best part of BvS.
She was the only person in the entire movie that looked like they were having fun. We'd spent 2+ hours with super heroes who are utterly miserable. It was refreshing to see someone with a bit of swagger and a bemused twinkle in her eye when fighting Doomsday. She was awesome and she knew it, which opened up her character a bit. Compared to Supes who is...stoic? the entire movie.
Finaika
Member
Superman was smirking when Batman was punching him repeatedly that one time though.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
They looked like they were having fun when they started making out in the tub.
Sure. Some people also like rolling around in their own filth. Not to begrudge those people, it's just really hard not to argue it's sanitary. If you like Batman, that's fine, you do you. I'm doing the same and just stating my opinion on him, and that opinion is that he is damaged goods, and no amount of polish will stop a turd from being a turd. There is nothing short of a reboot that can erase his depiction here, so yeah, in my opinion, The Batman movie has no chance whatsoever of being good just by it's association with BvS. And your play the that's just your opinion, man card isn't the mic drop moment you think it is. No shit, it's an opinion. And?
Subpar Spatula
Banned
I would have been miserable since Superman just flooded my bathroom.
Yeah, it's your opinion, but unless you asterisk your posts with "Don't challenge my opinion" people will respond if they find it off. You call it a turd and want to accept that, that's totally fine. Just be aware people will want to talk about your "Batman is a turd" position. If you don't want to then don't.
More_Badass
Member
That was actually one of my favorite moments of the entire fight. The way each punch grew less and less effective was just great
A lot of the excitement for Wonder Woman comes from a few different reasons.
1. In her 75+ year history she has never been featured in a live action movie.
2. Her entrance to the fight resulted in her saving the most popular character in the movie. That is automatic brownie points.
3. She knocked Doomsday back by smacking her bracelets together. Insane power level.
4. Her music was hype as fuck.
5. She was the only one out of the three who looked happy to be in a fight.
6. The all OP Superman died and Wonder Woman's makeup didn't even get messed up.
7. Her shield, sword, bracelets and lasso all got put to use so there was a little something for every fan of her arsenal.
1. In her 75+ year history she has never been featured in a live action movie.
2. Her entrance to the fight resulted in her saving the most popular character in the movie. That is automatic brownie points.
3. She knocked Doomsday back by smacking her bracelets together. Insane power level.
4. Her music was hype as fuck.
5. She was the only one out of the three who looked happy to be in a fight.
6. The all OP Superman died and Wonder Woman's makeup didn't even get messed up.
7. Her shield, sword, bracelets and lasso all got put to use so there was a little something for every fan of her arsenal.
Maybe he thought he could control doomsday coz of his blood.
Batman standalone has the best chance of being good if it's helmed by Ben Affleck and co-written by Jeoff Johns like it's rumored to be.
Even then it's going to be very hard for them to shake off a Batman using automated machine guns on vehicles and murdering thugs. Makes doing a Red Hood adaptation much more difficult than it should be for example.
Right now Justice League if it is released on schedule looks to be even worse than BvS. More characters for Zack Snyder to juggle and misinterpret. More crazy stuff that would make the plot non sensicsal like potential time traveling, alien wizardry, even more dream sequences and alternate realities. More CGI non sense and destruction porn. The trailer can be the best thing that mankind has ever witnessed and I would still assume that the movie is likely to disappoint.
Aquaman has bad writers attached to it, can't really see that being any good either but by then who knows who things will shake up anyway. SS looks decent and has a good enough director attached to it... it might end up being fine.
I am kinda worried about the Flash movie because I feel like they are going to jump straight into Flashpoint Paradox and do another Justice League type movie. That movie could be a steaming pile of turd if a lot of good talent isn't working on it. Flash is their opportunity to inject some much needed levity and charisma into the franchise because we sure as hell aren't going to get that from Aquaman or Cyborg.
Even then it's going to be very hard for them to shake off a Batman using automated machine guns on vehicles and murdering thugs. Makes doing a Red Hood adaptation much more difficult than it should be for example.
Right now Justice League if it is released on schedule looks to be even worse than BvS. More characters for Zack Snyder to juggle and misinterpret. More crazy stuff that would make the plot non sensicsal like potential time traveling, alien wizardry, even more dream sequences and alternate realities. More CGI non sense and destruction porn. The trailer can be the best thing that mankind has ever witnessed and I would still assume that the movie is likely to disappoint.
Aquaman has bad writers attached to it, can't really see that being any good either but by then who knows who things will shake up anyway. SS looks decent and has a good enough director attached to it... it might end up being fine.
I am kinda worried about the Flash movie because I feel like they are going to jump straight into Flashpoint Paradox and do another Justice League type movie. That movie could be a steaming pile of turd if a lot of good talent isn't working on it. Flash is their opportunity to inject some much needed levity and charisma into the franchise because we sure as hell aren't going to get that from Aquaman or Cyborg.
Give War A Chance
Member
Am I the only one that felt weird looking at SEVERAL shots of Batman wielding assorted rifles/grenade launchers? I know he has his different guns and whatnot, but it felt so weird.
Like watching a marine dressed as Batman.
IDK. Can't explain it. But it felt so cheap and lame.
Like watching a marine dressed as Batman.
IDK. Can't explain it. But it felt so cheap and lame.
thecouncil
Banned
Maybe it's because I see that character as someone who fights out of necessity and not someone who gets some fun out of it. If anyone there should be stoic, it's her.
But, again, outside of the costume, was the performance noteworthy at all?
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Followup to Ghaleon,
Also I can safely say I don't care if some movies don't feature characters having lots of fun. Like it's not really a thing I need in all my movies. Sometimes it's ok to watch Requiem for a Dream. In fact if Superman was in Requiem for a Dream that would be pretty awesome. Anyway this is a much less sad and depressing movie than that, and in an action film it's not that the characters need to have fun, it's that I, an audience member need to. That was 100% delivered to me in a variety of scenes here. How much fun were people having in John Wick? I guess Theon was having fun killing puppies and such briefly at the start, but after that it really wasn't a lot of fun for those characters. But for me it was fun. In Mad Max: Fury Road I don't think anything resembling happiness appeared until the final celebratory scene. But it's a lot fun for the audience if you're into action.
I suspect that your problem here is deeper than the fact that characters didn't smile a lot and didn't have fun breaks.
Also I can safely say I don't care if some movies don't feature characters having lots of fun. Like it's not really a thing I need in all my movies. Sometimes it's ok to watch Requiem for a Dream. In fact if Superman was in Requiem for a Dream that would be pretty awesome. Anyway this is a much less sad and depressing movie than that, and in an action film it's not that the characters need to have fun, it's that I, an audience member need to. That was 100% delivered to me in a variety of scenes here. How much fun were people having in John Wick? I guess Theon was having fun killing puppies and such briefly at the start, but after that it really wasn't a lot of fun for those characters. But for me it was fun. In Mad Max: Fury Road I don't think anything resembling happiness appeared until the final celebratory scene. But it's a lot fun for the audience if you're into action.
I suspect that your problem here is deeper than the fact that characters didn't smile a lot and didn't have fun breaks.
UltraGunner
Banned
just came back from watching and absolutely loved it!
Just one question. That guy who came from the portal after Bruce had his Apokolips nightmare was Barry Allen right?
Just one question. That guy who came from the portal after Bruce had his Apokolips nightmare was Barry Allen right?
Barry Allen, yes.
thecouncil
Banned
A lot of things couldve been post credit scenes. Or, better yet, deleted scenes on the blu ray.
Easily the email scene because it went on for too long right before the movie was picking up steam to the climax. The movie gets a whole point docked off just for pulling that.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
What the fuck was up with that portal in the dream? Are we expected to believe that was real, or part of his dream?
The E-mail scene would have been fine if it had ended after they did WW email and Flash e-mail. The other two were cheeseball, Momoa looking at the camera for like 30 seconds felt very poorly edited and the other scene just wasn't that well acted.
The E-mail scene would have been fine if it had ended after they did WW email and Flash e-mail. The other two were cheeseball, Momoa looking at the camera for like 30 seconds felt very poorly edited and the other scene just wasn't that well acted.
To be clear, I've never seen or read anything Wonder Woman related, at all. I thought Gal was charming, a bit mysterious and gave a lovely bit of levity to the overly portentous ending fight just by how she carried herself. Little things like in this shot, how she's thrown back. They all get tossed around at the end, but with her she actually responds to it like Doomsday needs an attitude adjustment.
Dunno, I just thought she was kind of fun. And was the only character in the entire movie I'd associate with that word.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Email scene.
Thor pool at least
A) Had a narrative reason for it earlier (Scarlet Witch vision)
B) Allowed Thor to know what an Infinity Stone was.
Pattycakes
Banned
Yeah, I know we have these totally clashing ideologies, but I'm going to be friend because you said my mom's name! What. The. Fuck.
After how many times they used Louis Lane as a damsel in distress I'm pretty sure the only reason they didn't use her as the leverage to fight Superman is even the writers were like, "Wow, that'd be a bit too much."
There was a lot of hooping/hollering at the end of Force Awakens on opening night. I wouldn't say standing ovation though.
After how many times they used Louis Lane as a damsel in distress I'm pretty sure the only reason they didn't use her as the leverage to fight Superman is even the writers were like, "Wow, that'd be a bit too much."
There was a lot of hooping/hollering at the end of Force Awakens on opening night. I wouldn't say standing ovation though.
Context matters. In this case I simply wanted characters who expressed a relatable range of human emotions given the story. In Mad Max characters expressed anxiety, relief, empathy, anger, surprise, dismay, grief, etc. as appropriate to the situation. Here Superman was constipated in every scene, Batman was scowling in every scene. It was all so one note, I think it limited what the actors had to work with, and for me, made them utterly unrelatable. I didn't like or connect with them as characters because they were not permitted to express themselves.
"Fun" is probably the wrong word to use here, but that's what I'm getting at.
Did most people in you guys' audience stay seated because they thought there would be a post credit scene? A handful of people and I walked out as soon as the movie ended but almost everyone stayed.
I bet they were pissed when nothing played at the end.
No, he 'lets be friends' after he found out that they had kidnapped Superman's mom and were going to kill her. Batman would be responsible for her death if he didn't stop fighting him.
That's what got him to stop and think about what the fuck he was doing.
I bet they were pissed when nothing played at the end.
No, he 'lets be friends' after he found out that they had kidnapped Superman's mom and were going to kill her. Batman would be responsible for her death if he didn't stop fighting him.
That's what got him to stop and think about what the fuck he was doing.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Really? I loved that scene and the fact that Luthor had a "Meta-human thesis" that made him look crazy to outsiders like the senator, but he had a dossier on them to back it up. I thought it was a creative way to introduce the characters without shoehorning them into the movie via actual characters.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
That was a lot of fun! I really enjoyed it.
- Zack Snyder, if nothing else, is capable of making a good looking movie.
- Ben Affleck might be the best live-action Batman. Loved his old, cruel, broken-down Batman.
- Gal Gadot was great.
- Henry Cavill is good as Superman. Some people criticize him, but I think he's quite alright.
- Awesome Alfred.
- Lex Luthor was absurd. What a terrible character.
- Batman straight up killed motherfuckers in this movie. I was okay with it for some reason.
- So did Superman.
- Doomsday was retarded.
- This movie was way more depressing than I thought it'd be with Superman's death.
- Bruce Wayne's superpower IS THE GIFT OF PROPHECY. HOLY CRAP, HE'S HAVING PROPHETIC WEIRD ACID-TRIP DREAMS.
- The Justice League tie-ins were absurd.
- Zack Snyder, if nothing else, is capable of making a good looking movie.
- Ben Affleck might be the best live-action Batman. Loved his old, cruel, broken-down Batman.
- Gal Gadot was great.
- Henry Cavill is good as Superman. Some people criticize him, but I think he's quite alright.
- Awesome Alfred.
- Lex Luthor was absurd. What a terrible character.
- Batman straight up killed motherfuckers in this movie. I was okay with it for some reason.
- So did Superman.
- Doomsday was retarded.
- This movie was way more depressing than I thought it'd be with Superman's death.
- Bruce Wayne's superpower IS THE GIFT OF PROPHECY. HOLY CRAP, HE'S HAVING PROPHETIC WEIRD ACID-TRIP DREAMS.
- The Justice League tie-ins were absurd.
You're not challenging my opinion though, you're just disagreeing with it. There is a difference. Challenging it would be offering reasons why the piss depiction of him would not harm the future movie, for example.
To be clear, I've never seen or read anything Wonder Woman related, at all. I thought Gal was charming, a bit mysterious and gave a lovely bit of levity to the overly portentous ending fight just by how she carried herself. Little things like in this shot, how she's thrown back. They all get tossed around at the end, but with her she actually responds to it like Doomsday needs an attitude adjustment.
Dunno, I just thought she was kind of fun. And was the only character in the entire movie I'd associate with that word.
Haha, this is a pretty apt description.
She had this smirk on her face that goes a long way.
80s Bad Guy
Banned
I mean, part of me understands the hate this film is getting.
But the other half is like, what? It's a competent superhero mashup. No one promised you eternal salvation, internet hero.
But the other half is like, what? It's a competent superhero mashup. No one promised you eternal salvation, internet hero.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Why on earth would she just dump it in a random pool in the first place...?
Schnozberry
Member
Yes, he started yelling at Bruce that Lois Lane was the key, and that he was right about "him" the entire time. At the end, he said "Am I too soon? I'm too soon....find us!"
The Flash was trying to reach Batman in the past to warn him about some mistake he made with Lois Lane. During the nightmare, Superman mentioned Batman taking Lois from him, so they were clearly related. Whether the "him" Barry was warning about was Superman or Darkseid is anyone's guess. It seemed like Superman had sided with Darkseid, which could have been triggered by Lois' death or perhaps Darkseid mastering the anti-life equation and brainwashing him.
The first Justice League movie seems to be setting up the return of Superman and the formation of the League, and Part 2 will be the fight with Darkseid.
That scene was painful. Think of the floor! Who's going to repair that water damage! Superman just can't understand these real world concerns.
The email scene, by far. Why did Lex create logos for these people? Was he applying to be their brand manager?
Pattycakes
Banned
But the only reason he didn't hammer him down and kill him before Louis Lane ran up and pleaded for mercy is that coincidentally their mother names were the same which triggered Bruce since he thought Superman was talking about Bruce's mother. It's very deus ex machina.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I was totally okay with the 'no kill' rule being tossed out the window. Batman went into fucking HARDCORE mode. I initially thought the 'manslaughter not murder' thing was absurd, but actually watching the movie... I'm okay with it. I can buy that this is Batman after twenty years of loss and grief and horror.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
How did she know where they were in the first place? Lois is omnipresent in this universe in order to justify her existence.
80s Bad Guy
Banned
Well if Superman thinks taking a bath and frying eggs and being Mr. Mom is more important than flying around on planet patrol who are we to judge? Oh right.
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