Dave Chappelle getting backlash for jokes about Caitlyn Jenner

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Demanufacture said:
Love that some comedians still don't hold back.

Go Dave!
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Totally brah. I wish comedians would unleash even more. Like, if there was a trans person in the audience, it would be totally fair game to direct it at them, specifically. Reminiscence about a time when we didn't have to pretend to respect trans people.

Make America Funny Again
 
A Link to the Past said:
That's actually a really good point. It makes Dave seem hypocritical - or at the very least, makes Dave's supporters on this matter seem like they understand him less than his critics do.
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I question whether the people defending these jokes are actually fans of Chapelle at all tbh. For the most part his show was quite warm and empathetic, even when it dealt with issues of racism. Most of the time there was this acknowledgement of the inherent absurdness of how we treat people differently based on race when we're basically all the same. He seemed pretty open to accepting other cultures, it was a big part of the message of his show that he reiterates throughout. He wanted to start a conversation about race, and sketch comedy was the best way to do so.

So calling Dave a "shock" comedian or saying "he doesn't hold back form offending anyone" is missing the point. When doing something "offensive" before there was usually a clear intention behind it, and the butt of his jokes where rarely the people themselves. They were pointed at bigger institutions or general societal attitudes. This joke was pointed at trans people in general and Caitlyn specifically, and came from a place of ignorance. It was the opposite of a good Chappelle's show sketch really. Which makes it all the more strange to see so many people say "it's just Dave being Dave". So the people saying stuff like that either aren't fans of his, or it represents a fundamental misunderstanding of what Dave was trying to do with his show if you think he was just trying to be edgy and shocking.
 
partyphone said:
yeah he's so brave and edgy!
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I want comedians to be edgy, I want no holds barred. All the best comedians have pushed the boundaries and thank god they did.

Eddie Murphy's Delirious is one of if not the best standup shows ever for that reason exactly.

Spinifex said:
Totally brah. I wish comedians would unleash even more. Like, if there was a trans person in the audience, it would be totally fair game to direct it at them, specifically. Reminiscence about a time when we didn't have to pretend to respect trans people.

Make America Funny Again
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Yea whatever you say man.
 
A Link to the Past said:
1. Trans people would love to be able to be the butt of jokes, unfortunately not at the same time that they're a second-class citizen. It can't be that they have to take one for the team when they are always being expected to just "deal with it."

2. Do you honestly think that people who give Dave Chappelle shit wouldn't give Daniel Tosh shit?
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I honestly believe that yeah, tosh can have more shit slide because he isn't a public figure. Everyone knows Dave. But I digress his comments about not playing to "their fantasy" sets up the joke atleast to me that, Dave doesent want trans people to be second class citizens and will allow their fantasy but he also wants the freedom to say "him". To make his time with them more comfortable. I would think he assumes one of the main reasons someone is trans has to be sexual, and being around that puts his sexuality up in limbo. It's a paradigm shift in society.

To try to make my point clearer everyone wants to feel comfortable in their enviornment. He isn't against there being trans people around him he just wants to be able to label them for his own sanity. And to be able to handle the paradigm shift in society. Maybe he doesent want to think about the slight rush of blood to his member for the split second he finds a trans person attractive.
 
Catvoca said:
I question whether the people defending these jokes are actually fans of Chapelle at all tbh. For the most part his show was quite warm and empathetic, even when it dealt with issues of racism. Most of the time there was this acknowledgement of the inherent absurdness of how we treat people differently based on race when we're basically all the same. He seemed pretty open to accepting other cultures, it was a big part of the message of his show that he reiterates throughout. He wanted to start a conversation about race, and sketch comedy was the best way to do so.

So calling Dave a "shock" comedian or saying "he doesn't hold back form offending anyone" is missing the point. When doing something "offensive" before there was usually a clear intention behind it, and the butt of his jokes where rarely the people themselves. They were pointed at bigger institutions or general societal attitudes. This joke was pointed at trans people in general and Caitlyn specifically, and came from a place of ignorance. It was the opposite of a good Chappelle's show sketch really. Which makes it all the more strange to see so many people say "it's just Dave being Dave".
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There was always a pretty big difference between his show and his standup. He's far more ruthless in his standup routines and touched on things that he'd more than likely never even approach on the show. Like "How old is 15?" or his male rape stuff.
 
I really don't look forward to our future... 20 years later the world will be a crazy place to live... probably social networks will be places full of bot like posts.
 
Demanufacture said:
I want comedians to be edgy, I want no holds barred. All the best comedians have pushed the boundaries and thank god they did.

Eddie Murphy's Delirious is one of if not the best standup shows ever for that reason exactly.



Yea whatever you say man.
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As has been discussed, Dave DID have limits. Dave doesn't push all of the boundaries, and he certainly often has found himself harmed psychologically by his own comedy. You don't seem like you're really in any position to speak on the matter.

SolidSnakex said:
There was always a pretty big difference between his show and his standup. He's far more ruthless in his standup routines and touched on things that he'd more than likely never even approach on the show. Like "How old is 15?" or his male rape stuff.
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The issue is that even he was "offended" by his own work, so ultimately this talk about how people who are offended need to get over it feel super disingenuous when talking about a man who got over it by going to another continent.
 
SolidSnakex said:
There was always a pretty big difference between his show and his standup. He's far more ruthless in his standup routines and touched on things that he'd more than likely never even approach on the show. Like "How old is 15?" or his male rape stuff.
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I'm a more familiar with his show then his stand up tbh. I've seen one or two of his specials but can't really remember them too well. So I can't quite speak to that. Maybe he was more into doing "shocking" stuff live, but the vast majority of his fans came from watching his show, so I think my point still generally applies.
 
A Link to the Past said:
The issue is that even he was "offended" by his own work, so ultimately this talk about how people who are offended need to get over it feel super disingenuous when talking about a man who got over it by going to another continent.
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He wasn't offended by his work, he was offended by what it represented. He made satirical statements about the state of black culture in the United States, and a mostly white audience twisted it into "lol black people". Which sucks. On top of that, he was also constantly mistreated by the executives at Comedy Central, and credit was passed on to his friend Neil (a white man) as "the brains" behind the show, despite the fact a lot of what you saw was actually Dave's creation. The major problems arose during Season 3 when they tried to basically strong arm Dave into doing more skits where being black was the joke rather than there being a joke about something else involving black people. That was the issue.
 
neurosisxeno said:
He wasn't offended by his work, he was offended by what it represented. He made satirical statements about the state of black culture in the United States, and a mostly white audience twisted it into "lol black people". Which sucks. On top of that, he was also constantly mistreated by the executives at Comedy Central, and credit was passed on to his friend Neil (a white man) as "the brains" behind the show, despite the fact a lot of what you saw was actually Dave's creation. The major problems arose during Season 3 when they tried to basically strong arm Dave into doing more skits where being black was the joke rather than there being a joke about something else involving black people. That was the issue.
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Then maybe he should get over what his audience thought of it? I understand entirely that it wasn't just the audience reaction, but it was a significant enough problem for him. And for a lot of people who are criticizing his trans jokes, our approach is that it's perpetuating a mindset among audience members of "lol trans people." If he cannot abide that with his jokes about how black people are treated in society, why should we be expected to abide that with these jokes for trans people?
 
Dave has really gone downhill in recent years. It's really depressing to see him go this way. Transphobia is always bad but to see a well known and famous figure like Chappelle engage in it is just disheartening and disgusting. I hope he stops being a shit like this but if he's going to be like this I can't support him anymore
 
A Link to the Past said:
Then maybe he should get over what his audience thought of it? I understand entirely that it wasn't just the audience reaction, but it was a significant enough problem for him. And for a lot of people who are criticizing his trans jokes, our approach is that it's perpetuating a mindset among audience members of "lol trans people." If he cannot abide that with his jokes about how black people are treated in society, why should we be expected to abide that with these jokes for trans people?
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His exit from his show was more personal because he was the one that had to represent these caricatures of black stereotypes. It was that and the fact that people couldn't seem to separate his show persona from him as an individual--all the stories of people coming up to him in public when he's with his family and screaming "I'M RICK JAMES BITCH" right in front of his kids. His exit from his show was 1 part moral and 2 parts personal.

I personally think nothing should be off limits in the world of comedy. People always have the option not to listen, and Dave Chappelle hasn't been relevant for quite some time so it's not a worldview that is being projected on a massive audience. There are tons of top tier comedians who regularly get in trouble for approaching various topics--shit, Louis C.K. told a pedophile joke during an SNL opening monologue. You can chalk it up to "shock value" but this is what comedians do. They have to force people into uncomfortable territory and challenge their views, because nobody laughs at the mundane.
 
Catvoca said:
I'm a more familiar with his show then his stand up tbh. I've seen one or two of his specials but can't really remember them too well. So I can't quite speak to that. Maybe he was more into doing "shocking" stuff live, but the vast majority of his fans came from watching his show, so I think my point still generally applies.
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Dave's standup can be pretty brutal. But something you're right about is that they tend to point out societal issues. Not always, but often times they do. The male rape one that I brought up is an example of that. The main point of the joke is him pointing out the difficulty there is in men reporting rape. He says "Seven men have already come forward in the Houston area and reported this motherfucker. Which means he must've raped thousands. That's a tough phone call for us to make.". He's typically a storyteller type of comedian, so it's important to hear the entire thing and not snippets.

A Link to the Past said:
Then maybe he should get over what his audience thought of it? I understand entirely that it wasn't just the audience reaction, but it was a significant enough problem for him. And for a lot of people who are criticizing his trans jokes, our approach is that it's perpetuating a mindset among audience members of "lol trans people." If he cannot abide that with his jokes about how black people are treated in society, why should we be expected to abide that with these jokes for trans people?
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It's worth pointing out that Dave has never stopped doing his racial humor about stereotypes of black people and other races during his standup. There was simply something about the reaction to the Chappelle Show that he didn't like. He once joked about the frustration he had with going out with his kids only to have someone run up to him and yell "I'm Rick James, bitch!". So I guess on some level he felt that the stuff on TV stuck with people moreso than his routines.
 
There's nothing wrong with making jokes about controversial topics.

There's something wrong when the punchline is "lol, trans people."

If you don't understand this you don't understand comedy and think being offensive and insulting makes a joke good.
 
Chappelle has a history of homophobia and transphobia, he should not be given the benefit of the doubt.

I know he had a TV series that most of us enjoyed that made for some quality gifs but it's time to move on and see him for what he obviously is. Comedy is not a shield that allows someone to say whatever hateful shit they want without criticism because "it's just a joke" and "he makes fun of everyone, stop being PC" is a facile defence. Making fun of a trans woman and saying he won't respect her pronouns is not some clever commentary, it's vile, Daily Mail comments section shite.

Just like you wouldn't want to confess to being a Jim Davidson or Roy Chubby Brown fan lest you be regarded as a racist, it's probably not a good idea to defend Chappelle if you don't want to look like a homophobe and a transphobe.
 
I'd like to hear the bit. I have a lot of faith in the man comedically. He has proven himself to be one of the funniest people on the planet.

I trust him over the people in this thread who are unable to make me laugh.
 
EmiPrime said:
Just like you wouldn't want to confess to being a Jim Davidson or Roy Chubby Brown fan lest you be regarded as a racist, it's probably not a good idea to defend Chappelle if you don't want to look like a homophobe and a transphobe.
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Smells like fallacy in here.
 
Guess Who said:
There's nothing wrong with making jokes about controversial topics.

There's something wrong when the punchline is "lol, trans people."

If you don't understand this you don't understand comedy and think being offensive and insulting makes a joke good.
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Yeah, I'm still struggling to understand what was supposed to be funny besides "haha she used to be a boy." Like, I don't get why that would "bring the house down."
 
Carnby said:
Smells like fallacy in here.
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What's the difference between Roy Chubby Brown hating on Muslims and asylum seekers in his comedy shows and David Chappelle hating on LGBT people?

It's the same use of comedy to express bigotry and ignorance. We can still enjoy The Chappelle Show but don't defend the man and don't hand wave his bigotry just because you're a fan.
 
I would like to see his entire set. Someone posted the Cosby bits and the precious movie bits online when he performed in the bay area. That was hilarious. Maybe these Ray Rice and Jenner jokes don't work as well.
 
Dave makes fun of all types of people. Comedians sort of make it a point to lampoon people and use stereotypes to make a joke.
 
The Doc said:
Yes. When it's aimed towards art or satire.
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Have...have you played a video game?

Fun fact: every game in it's first stages is complete dog crap until you put it in front of someone else. They play it, they give you feedback (aka criticism/constructive criticism), and then you iterate to make it better. Repeat this cycle hundreds of times and you might have a good game on your hands, depending on how good of a game developer you are.

Are you seriously suggesting that artists should completely ignore their audience?
 
Measley said:
Dave makes fun of all types of people. Comedians sort of make it a point to lampoon people and use stereotypes to make a joke.
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But Chappelle has multiple times, outside of the context of humour (unless we're just going to use the defense that Chappelle is always joking unless otherwise noted), made disparaging statements about trans people.
 
Comedians can joke about whatever they want, but the public can also criticize them for their jokes. Just because you have a "I am a comedian" badge doesn't mean that people are suddenly barred from criticizing you.

Dicktatorship said:
Dave's a devout Muslim, believe it or not.
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Wait till you hear all the jokes made at the expense of Muslims :P
 
A Link to the Past said:
But Chappelle has multiple times, outside of the context of humour (unless we're just going to use the defense that Chappelle is always joking unless otherwise noted), made disparaging statements about trans people.
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also parroting bigoted stereotypes is unfunny and predictable.

transphobia is only funny to assholes.
 
Here's a video with a pretty close approximation of the bit I heard. It's from 2014 and he didn't put as fine a point on the ultimate question he's asking, and it's missing the Caitlyn stuff because that is more recent, but you can sorta get the idea.
https://youtu.be/zKd0MSXZFb0?t=43

Edit: Put a link in the OP. It's not perfect but it's the best I could find after poking around.
 
I love when comedians go all out, and show no restraint,even if my sensibilities are the target of their jokes. I would hate to see comedy censored to the point that everybody is comfortable and laughing while watching it.
This sounds like an awful idea, but maybe their should be a rating type system for comedians that warned that their content might not be PC.

I personally don't love jokes about those with disabilities, but they have always been a part of comedy, and I don't recall any outrage over it before.
 
partyphone said:
also parroting bigoted stereotypes is unfunny and predictable.

transphobia is only funny to assholes.
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Funny is funny. It doesn't have a conscience. Laughs are not an endorsement.

Making yourself the self appointed arbiter of funny and making declarations probably only makes the jokes you dislike funnier.
 
BobbyRobby said:
Funny is funny. It doesn't have a conscience. Laughs are not an endorsement.

Making yourself the self appointed arbiter of funny and making declarations probably only makes the jokes you dislike funnier.
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there's this little thing called empathy. when someone makes a trabsphobic joke I don't laugh I feel fucking awful. if you find it funny you're an asshole. there's no Universal Humor. it's always relative.
 
partyphone said:
there's this little thing called empathy. when someone makes a trabsphobic joke I don't laugh I feel fucking awful. if you find it funny you're an asshole. there's no Universal Humor. it's always relative.
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If I see someone trip and fall, I may burst out laughing. I have no control over it. I don't want that person to fall, nor would I take action to make them fall but it's still funny.
 
Rembrandt said:
what.
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not everyone finds the same things funny. comedy changes over time and across cultures. I don't think this is particularly controversial or novel?

like sure there are certain things that are universally funny like a fart. but as a whole comedy is highly subjective.
 
BobbyRobby said:
If I see someone trip and fall, I may burst out laughing. I have no control over it. I don't want that person to fall, nor would I take action to make them fall but it's still funny.
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what if they're severely injured? or killed? is that still funny to you? or is there no line? because you might be a sociopath or something. D:
 
BobbyRobby said:
If I see someone trip and fall, I may burst out laughing. I have no control over it. I don't want that person to fall, nor would I take action to make them fall but it's still funny.
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It's thanks to people like you America's Funniest Home Videos is like 90% babies tripping and falling.
Rembrandt said:
what.
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Comedy works or doesn't work because of personal experience, your understanding of the situation, and how clever it is. Something like slapstick is more likely to be universal, but when shared experiences are entirely different humor can fall flat at best. See puns in foreign languages, or jokes involving media you never even had second hand exposure to, nevermind cultural quirks.
 
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