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[onQ123]

If this was a controlled leak the timing of it was pretty coldblooded.


Microsoft unveiled a lot of news today at Build & it's all being overshadowed by news that was already slipping though the cracks & someone just so happen to unload it today.

 

[Maintenance]

I can see GT7 coming out on the PS4k to make everyone get one.

They botched GT6 by releasing it on the PS3 and they will be doing the same if they make it PS4K exclusive or make the VR part exclusive.

That's one way to kill your golden goose.

 

[Stallion Dan]

So did ps2 games run like shit cause of xbox, or did playstation games run like shit cause of n64? You guys forget ps4 has a 50 million lead on ps4.5

Well PS2 versions were often gimped compared to others, yes.

 

[Jimrpg]

Also the evidence continues to mount against the PSVR being pretty dead on the PS4.

If the GTX 970 is the bare minimum for a reasonable VR experience, then its crazy to expect that the PS4 which has a 750 Ti equivalent card to put out similar experiences.

 

[Renekton]

Which is unfortunate because I would very much have liked to see what the Cell 2.0 could have been.

Alas.

:/

Even IBM herself marginalized Cell.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

I guess I'll wait till next year.

 

[ShadyJ]

The ride ended for me as i jumped off PC station.

 

[nib95]

For someone who has found no reason to own a PS4 (or Xbone) this is perfect. I can see consoles becoming an iPad-type upgrade deal; buy one, skip a generation or two, then buy one... and rich folks will buy all of them without hesitation. Only equals more $$$ for Sony.

Which at least to me, is not a good thing for the consumer. Prior to this we'd just have ultra advanced consoles at launch, that were heavily subsidised, sold at a heavy loss by manufacturers, hence provided much better value proposition and added longevity. Now we're getting less value proposition, less advanced hardware, and less specific optimisation and development. It also doesn't help that games are taking much longer to make and release, so the value within these cycles is diminished even in that respect.

 

[Golgo 13]

If this puts Bloodborne and other games at 60fps I'm in.

It won't. The OP says that the source said it wouldn't boost old games, and if there WAS a decision to let that occur, it would be a "per game, per patch, per developer basis" and not universal, so don't hold your breath. They're not gonna spend $200,000 or whatever it'd cost to patch a game that's almost 2 years old and everyone's already played and isn't selling anymore.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

It's not about power.
It's about pushing 4K onto the masses so their other business units (tvs, movies & services) can profit.

4K is part of Sonys ecosystem whether some like it or not, they are a technology company after all.

this is why this feels like a decision from the top, not something that makes sense for playstation as a brand.

It just seems odd because the CEO came from playstation and ahould be able to see why this is potentially disasterious for the console.

It sounds like a decision that someone who didnt understand gaming would make.

 

[Glorified G]

This is the result of releasing an underpowered $400 console. Nobody wants to pay $600-$800 so you end up with a machine with half the lifespan. It's not a bad thing IMO since hardware will be relatively cheaper mid gen and it allows a more affordable path for the budget gamer who can get by with less performance. PS4K ends up being similar to $800 PS4 performance with the benefit of splitting the payment up over 3 years and option to trade in or ebay the old system.

The revisionist history about the current gen consoles by some is pretty interesting. PS4 was anything but underpowered when released. We're talking about a 16x jump increase in high end from the PS3, maybe the biggest ever and no one predicted. You couldn't even find an open world game on a PC that looked as good as Second Son when it was released.

This has more to do with their TV division and VR more than anything else.

 

[Jimrpg]

They botched GT6 by releasing it on the PS3 and they will be doing the same if they make it PS4K exclusive or make the VR part exclusive.

That's one way to kill your golden goose.

True, but the Gran Turismo games have always been about best in class graphics, and there's just not enough of a jump up from PS3 to PS4, especially if PS4k is around the corner. Thats why GT4, GT6 had poorer sales than GT3 and GT5. Even though GT3 came out early in the PS2 life cycle, it sold plenty of units over the PS2 lifetime.

 

[Maintenance]

Bloodborne 2, PS4K enhanced: the game runs at a silky smooth ...30fps.

OG PS4 gets the Bloodborne 2: Blighttown edition.

True, but the Gran Turismo games have always been about best in class graphics, and there's just not enough of a jump up from PS3 to PS4, especially if PS4k is around the corner. Thats why GT4, GT6 had poorer sales than GT3 and GT5. Even though GT3 came out early in the PS2 life cycle, it sold plenty of units over the PS2 lifetime.

The first games always sold more (GT1, GT3, GT5), IIRC. GT6 sold like shit because they released it after the PS4 launched.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

Fuck off Sony, I'm out.

I knew they would go back to their old ways.

 

[Razgreez]

This is the ubiquity of playstation that many of us already expected as soon as the "medium" spec x86 powered nature of the PS4 was confirmed. Eventually there will be no PS4 nor PS4K. There will only be "Playstation" and the device you may have, be it the TV itself, the mobile phone or tablet or the console etc. will simply be a means of accessing it at varying levels of fidelity.

If you haven't come to grasp with this simple concept then...

 

[ninjablade]

Well PS2 versions were often gimped compared to others, yes.

No they weren't, GC had the worse versions of most games framerate wise. Games that lead on ps2 ran fine and we're not gimped, it's just the xbox versions were better, only games that pushed the xbox were shit on ps2 and GC because they didn't have proper shader support, look at GC residents evil 4 vs ps2 residents evil 4, the ps2 version was still one of the best looking game on the system.

 

[Lionel Richie]

I think the reasons for it are fairly simple. After the debacle that was the PS3, and Sony being in such bad shape, they couldn't afford to release a super high performance PS4 subsidised at a huge loss the way they did the PS3 or PS2. So they instead released something fairly mediocre in performance, at less of a loss, but at a more affordable price. Fast forward to today, where not only are they a dominant market leader, but they also have a VR unit coming out which they've probably realised cannot be properly catered for by the PS4, and instead needs more powerful hardware, hence we're in the situation we are.

The ideal scenario is basically console manufacturers getting it right in the first place, by releasing more powerful hardware at the start of a new cycle, at a more subsidised cost (e.g. taking a notable loss on every console sold at launch), but obviously manufacturers are less willing to do that these days, as it poses more of a financial risk.

I understand your point and agree that we shouldn't expect the companies to continue to take huge financial hits on their consoles. The PS4 was indeed underpowered from the start and maybe VR needs an extra push, but here's the thing, if it works in any level with the regular PS4, why not wait a bit more and market it together with the PS5? The PS4 is selling buckets and making money, why risk it?

I do also get that the PS4K is not that different from the PS5, but it's off by at least one year and a half. It sends a bad message that likely does more harm than good to the fanbase. And it's pricy when you consider PSVR. If you want both of them, what would be the price? $700-800. The original PS4 launched where I live (Brazil) at the time for 4 motherfucking thousand bucks. What is this going to cost?

And I think there's another exercise in futurology we need to consider as well. What if the games optimized for the new hardware runs like shit on the OG PS4? Like 20FPS shit. It is at least somewhat possible that this happens considering the industry history.

 

[Caayn]

If this was a controlled leak the timing of it was pretty coldblooded.


Microsoft unveiled a lot of news today at Build & it's all being overshadowed by news that was already slipping though the cracks & someone just so happen to unload it today.

Build's audience isn't the consumer but the developers and only a small part of those are game developers.

 

[EASTC0AST_GH05T]

I need Andrew to talk to me about this like right now, I can't wait until E3 or even later to hear a official statement on PS4K.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

The revisionist history about the current gen consoles by some is pretty interesting. PS4 was anything but underpowered when released. We're talking about a 16x jump increase in high end from the PS3, maybe the biggest ever and no one predicted. You couldn't even find an open world game on a PC that looked as good as Second Son when it was released.

This has more to do with their TV division and VR more than anything else.

Hardware wise PS4 was under power comapre to the PC parts that were out even more so for the cpu .
Also PS3 and 360 were holding back PC as soon as they came out look how good Open world game got on PC for eg AC .
Also you forgot that it was the longest gen we ever had so the jump should have been bigger .

 

[roddjbrown]

If this turns out to be true I think it might finally push me to pc. A new ps4 and psvr would set me back around £700 - enough that taking the big leap into PC gaming suddenly isn't so far away...

 

[Stallion Dan]

No they weren't, GC had the worse versions of most games framerate wise. Games that lead on ps2 ran fine and we're not gimped, it's just the xbox versions were better, only games that pushed the xbox were shit on ps2 and GC because they didn't have proper shader support, look at GC residents evil 4 vs ps2 residents evil 4, the ps2 version was still one of the best looking game on the system.

PS2 versions were often missing entire game modes when it came to splitscreen ones. And RE4 looked like crap compared to GC.

 

[Risk Breaker]

I don't see what's the problem with this.

2x the GPU power and (most likely) 1x CPU power has never and would NEVER constitute a generation jump. How are some of you saying "this is pretty much a PS5!!111"?

No, if anything, it is a PS4i in the vein of Nintendo handhelds' revisions, only making use of these extra capabilities should be much easier.

If the game is CPU limited: ++resolution
If the game is GPU limited: ++framerate

 

[Dragon Puncher]

Fuck off Sony, I'm out.

I knew they would go back to their old ways.

Yes, curse Sony and their typical "release a better version of an existing console" ways! People have been saying arrogant Sony for years based on nothing, until we have word directly from the horses mouth we don't know anything for certain about this new console and a lot of it seems like it's still up in the air. If there's some sort of trade in program, it wouldn't be that bad.

 

[onQ123]

Fuck off Sony, I'm out.

I knew they would go back to their old ways.

For everyone person who is upset & say they will not buy a PlayStation because of this there will be about 5 - 10 that will buy this for 4K & VR. looking at Amazon sales actually went up today. PS4 is number 9.

 

[1er tigre]

I hope Sony read all the bad/angry reactions to these rumors and forget about this very bad idea...

 

[plasmasd]

Too bad you'd need around 5x the power of the PS4 for the visual fidelity of current games at 4k60.

 

[eyeball_kid]

Which is unfortunate because I would very much have liked to see what the Cell 2.0 could have been.

Alas.

:/

So would I, but Crazy Ken delved too deep. I think most all of us miss the outlandish days of his hardware, but Sony probably made the best decision at the time.

 

[EASTC0AST_GH05T]

If this turns out to be true I think it might finally push me to pc. A new ps4 and psvr would set me back around £700 - enough that taking the big leap into PC gaming suddenly isn't so far away...

I was thinking both the PS4K and PSVR would be close to 1k, I got the money but im like damn a investment of 800 or 900$ towards a PC might get me a longer period of enjoyment and quality for my hobby.

 

[ninjablade]

PS2 versions were often missing entire game modes when it came to splitscreen ones.

Even if what you say is true the games lead on ps2, it has nothing to do with being gimped it's just the hardware couldn't handle it, regardless of the other more powerful consoles.

 

[OléGunner]

This reeks (and definitely feels) as a console designed mainly for NA and western EU markets.

I don't personally see this thing taking off in Japan and other global areas where Sony is dominant at another $400+ price point eluded to in the OP as the rest of the world put nasty markups on standard MSRP for all technology.

But naturally when PS5 launches, maybe the RoTW will be offered PS4K as their upgrade or entry point. Fascinated to see how Sony market this new strategy on a global scale.

If they have similar hardware architecture, what's stopping the code optimisations from working on both platforms? General purpose computing on GPU is likely valid on both systems.

Well I'm not the most super tech savvy guy out there so I'll take your word for it then.

 

[RoadHazard]

I don't see what's the problem with this.

2x the GPU power and (most likely) 1x CPU power has never and would NEVER constitute a generation jump. How are some of you saying "this is pretty much a PS5!!111"?

No, if anything, it is a PS4i in the vein of Nintendo handhelds' revisions, only making use of these extra capabilities should be much easier.

If the game is CPU limited: ++resolution
If the game is GPU limited: ++framerate

There needs to also be a CPU upgrade, it's by far the weakest part of the PS4.

 

[Glorified G]

Hardware wise PS4 was under power comapre to the PC parts that were out .
Also PS3 and 360 were holding back PC as soon as they came out look how good Open world game got on PC for eg AC .
Also you forgot that yeah it was the longest gen we ever had so the jump should have been bigger .

It's being compared to the previous console, not PC which still couldn't produce a better looking open world game despite PS4 being months out of release. And again with revisionist history. The PS3 was already outdated when by PC before it was released (specifically the dated RSX gpu) and the 360 less than a year in. How many people considered both underpowered then?

 

[pupcoffee]

It's being compared to the previous console, not PC which still couldn't produce a better looking open world game despite PS4 being months out of release. And again with revisionist history. The PS3 was already outdated when by PC before it was released (specifically the dated RSX gpu) and the 360 less than a year in. How many people considered both underpowered then?

On forums, at least, people talked about it as much as they do now.

 

[AniHawk]

I hope Sony read all the bad/angry reactions to these rumors and forget about this very bad idea...

maybe they can do a short video about how the ps4k supports used games and then announce the differences between ps4 and ps4k under their breath while everyone cheers.

 

[nib95]

I understand your point and agree that we shouldn't expect the companies to continue to take huge financial hits on their consoles. The PS4 was indeed underpowered from the start and maybe VR needs an extra push, but here's the thing, if it works in any level with the regular PS4, why not wait a bit more and market it together with the PS5? The PS4 is selling buckets and making money, why risk it?

I do also get that the PS4K is not that different from the PS5, but it's off by at least one year and a half. It sends a bad message that likely does more harm than good to the fanbase. And it's pricy when you consider PSVR. If you want both of them, what would be the price? $700-800. The original PS4 launched where I live (Brazil) at the time for 4 motherfucking thousand bucks. What is this going to cost?

And I think there's another exercise in futurology we need to consider as well. What if the games optimized for the new hardware runs like shit on the OG PS4? Like 20FPS shit. It is at least somewhat possible that this happens considering the industry history.

I completely understand and share many of your fears, even though I will likely buy the PS4K day one. My negative outlook is more on the future repercussions and ramifications of this strategy, which I feel are less consumer friendly, and offer less value proposition per hardware cycle.

To answer your question, I think the reason Sony would risk it is not only to better enable the PSVR, but also to try it's hand at a release cycle that more closely resembles other technologies, simply because it has the potential to be more profitable for them. More hardware revisions, shorter cycles, less subsidisation, more crossover etc. Not sure yet if it will pay off, but we shall see. They certainly also have the potential here to squander a lot of their goodwill, and make consumers feel somewhat less confident in console purchases going forward.

 

[EricTheCleric]

Which is unfortunate because I would very much have liked to see what the Cell 2.0 could have been.



:/

it could have been a 600$ PS4

 

[Ashes]

Only double. I guess I will wait for ps5

 

[NinjaBoiX]

This is really sounding like a PS5 with those massive hardware upgrades.

PS4 owners are gonna be pissed. Glad I waited to buy mine!

Yeah, you already missed the last two years and now you have to wait another year still.

Seems like you played a doozie and struck just at the right time...

 

[Mabufu]

I hope Sony read all the bad/angry reactions to these rumors and forget about this very bad idea...

Sony doesnt have to listen to people who knows absolutely nothing about business and buy things for the wrong reasons (equality between all players and not the fun or the games), so yeah, good luck : /

 

[Matthew23]

The revisionist history about the current gen consoles by some is pretty interesting. PS4 was anything but underpowered when released. We're talking about a 16x jump increase in high end from the PS3, maybe the biggest ever and no one predicted. You couldn't even find an open world game on a PC that looked as good as Second Son when it was released.

This has more to do with their TV division and VR more than anything else.

But PS3 was hold old at that point? I own Second Son and yes, it's a nice looking game, that runs at 30 FPS. Fact is PS4 is around 2.5 years old and it can't match gaming PC visuals at half the frames.

I agree that VR has pushed this decision, but expecting a $400 console to last 7 years just isn't realistic. Not if want to stay anywhere near PC performance anyways.

 

[Melchettsmoustache]

GOW4 is a game I'm looking forward to.

I don't expect to be playing a gimped version and the day I log onto Gaf to read the DF comparison of the game with a PlayStation 4 vs Playstation 4 side by side comparison will be a sad day.

Having just bought an I7 and Gtx980ti for VR then if I'm going to be forced into iterative gaming then it will be with the most powerful gear and Sony will sell one less console in their early cycle. Ill keep my money until I know that I'm buying their machine that can play all their games in the intended fashion.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

It's being compared to the previous console, not PC which still couldn't produce a better looking open world game despite PS4 being months out of release. And again with revisionist history. The PS3 was already outdated when by PC before it was released (specifically the dated RSX gpu) and the 360 less than a year in. How many people considered both underpowered then?

Previous console did not take 8 to 9 years before a upgrade .
Also people were talking about how poor the CPU was since we found out what it was .
When 360 came out it was using a top of the line AMD part .
PS3 was delay because of Blu ray and RSX was outdated but it had cell to help not so with PS4.

 

[ISOM]

Can I just say thank god I waited to buy a PS4? Or should I say PS4K.

 

[Risk Breaker]

There needs to also be a CPU upgrade, it's by far the weakest part of the PS4.

Yeah, well, I would agree. Jaguar is kind of shit compared to what they could have now for a small investment, and it could allow for 60FPS (or at least completely stable 30FPS at higher resolution), but it's more tricky.

 

[warheat]

Yeah, you already missed the last two years and now you have to wait another year still.

Seems like you played a doozie and struck just at the right time...

Implying everyone bought their system on launch, how about people who just bought the system recently?

 

[StoopKid]

Still don't get the outrage. Sony isn't going to abandon 40 million ps4s.

For all we know a regular ps4 game will be at 1080p and 4K on the new hardware.

 

[M.D]

So is the OP approved?

 

[ninjablade]

So is the OP approved?

Anybody who's been on neogaf knows if this was false it would have been locked a long time ago.

 

[Slay]

I hope Sony read all the bad/angry reactions to these rumors and forget about this very bad idea...

I think that we need a poll for this with 4 options

It's a great idea , i will buy it

It's a great idea , but i will not buy it

It's a bad idea , but i will buy it

It's a bad idea , and i will not buy it

If someone has the right access here, please do so.