TheLegendOfMart
Banned
Their old car doesn't get downgraded components or fuel, nor does it drive any differently on the road.
PS4 will get "significant" downgraded games.
PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)
- Thread starter OsirisBlack
- Start date
Their old car doesn't get downgraded components or fuel, nor does it drive any differently on the road.
PS4 will get "significant" downgraded games.
Gumbie
Member
I forgot to add a smilie
Was Meant to be a joke, dont Take it to serious
Ah ok, It's hard to tell around here after the melt downs I've seen the last 24 hours
This makes zero sense... what should he have built at $399 for 2013 that wouldn't have been a bad job, by this logic?
You can't hold back technological change. You can ignore it - Sony could choose to have a single fixed-spec SKU as with previous gens - but the position of their box relative to improved tech wouldn't change.
Also, on a slightly side note, his PS4 is not being replaced. It's being joined by a premium option, but his original will still be a going concern, and probably will be around for at least another 3 years.
Only vs a more powerful box. A 'significantly downgraded' game on the original may well be the same 1080p/30 the box is used to hosting - only 'downgraded' vs the higher res or fidelity of the new box, not vs what it's been used to to date.
Your PS4 won't play games any worse than before. Only vs better tech, which is the case anyway for multiplats on PC.
Now there is the risk of 'lazy' PS4 versions that are worse than would otherwise be the case, if there wasn't a PS4K. But the market will decide the likelihood of that happening and/or being tolerated. If the bulk of the audience is still on the original PS4, I don't think this will happen so much.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
It already is! Games are developed in a PC and downgraded to permit execution on the PS4.
GHG
Member
Wait, you actually think they will purposefully downgrade the games below what they should be on the PS4?
I don't even know what to say to you...
It doesn't make sense, unless success has really gone to Sony's head. They're the market leader and the PS4 is doing very well. I highly doubt that they would fuck that up by introducing a new console unless they were forced to (like competing with XBO.5).
GlamFM
Banned
Don´t be such a drama queen. Developers will always target the biggest audience.
The PS4K might never surpass the PS4 in sales during its lifetime.
PS4 games will be a ok.
PS4K games will have higher resolutions and/or frame-rates.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
The PS4 isn't a sequel to the PC though, it is a generational leap ahead of PS3....
If the OP is to be believed some games are going to be TARGETED for the PS4K and the PS4 will receive "SIGNIFICANT" downgraded versions.
That's not what the OP says. Flagship titles will be targeted at the PS4K and PS4 would have to receive downgraded versions, it wont be as simple as 60fps on PS4K and 30fps on PS4 with the same fidelity.
Hyrule Warriors feelings.
You're even starting to differ between "PS4 games" and "PS4K games" but you still hold your point that this is just like a PC GPU upgrade?
megashock5
Member
Here's where I am atm.
I'm historically a console gamer. Like, since Colecovision, Atari and Odyssey2.
I'll echo what other have said in that I like to buy a new box every 5-6 years but not terribly keen on upgrading three years in, especially with the current price tags attached.
But let's go beyond that. I already gave Sony $400 for a machine to play PS4 games. Now it sounds like it would take another $400-500 for the upgraded model to play the same library of games at a higher quality.
At that point, it would be more tempting to spend that money on an XBone or NX since it would open up access to a new library instead of visually augmented versions PS4 games I can (supposedly) play without upgrading.
Obviously, I'll wait to see how Sony handles everything before completely form an opinion on this whole thing. If, however, we end up in a situation where the upgraded model is required for anything but a sub-par experience, it will definitely affect the likelihood of me purchasing a Sony console in the future.
I guess we'll see how this shakes out, should be an interesting ride.
I'm historically a console gamer. Like, since Colecovision, Atari and Odyssey2.
I'll echo what other have said in that I like to buy a new box every 5-6 years but not terribly keen on upgrading three years in, especially with the current price tags attached.
But let's go beyond that. I already gave Sony $400 for a machine to play PS4 games. Now it sounds like it would take another $400-500 for the upgraded model to play the same library of games at a higher quality.
At that point, it would be more tempting to spend that money on an XBone or NX since it would open up access to a new library instead of visually augmented versions PS4 games I can (supposedly) play without upgrading.
Obviously, I'll wait to see how Sony handles everything before completely form an opinion on this whole thing. If, however, we end up in a situation where the upgraded model is required for anything but a sub-par experience, it will definitely affect the likelihood of me purchasing a Sony console in the future.
I guess we'll see how this shakes out, should be an interesting ride.
GlamFM
Banned
I mean... what?
Poor wording on my side. I meant games on PS4 & games on PS4K
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Huh? The PS4 and PC are already so much alike that game developers create on PC and make compromises to get the game to run optimally on a PS4. That's the point. This has nothing to do with the PS3. Your existing PS4 will run games as well as they can possibly get them to run.
I swear some people are just mad because they won't have the new shiny anymore. Your PS4 will continue to receive as much support as it currently gets.
geordiemp
Member
You know what he meant, the same disk in a Ps4 will run one way, same game in Ps4K you get a bit more
travisbickle
Member
Fortunately the OP doesn't make that mistake and states games will work on both consoles.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
Multiplatform games are almost always created on PC and downgraded for consoles, I understand that I have a gaming PC.
One of the points for me to get the PS4 instead of a new GPU is that I get 5-6 years worth of games for £400 and I don't have to upgrade it or tweak any graphics settings.
Now I can't even spend money to upgrade my PS4, I have to buy a whole new one just so I don't get gimped games.
Enough of the "but games will play the same as they do now" nonsense, in a couple of years third party developers will be targeting the PS4K and the PS4 will get horribly performing games optimised as quickly and as cheaply as they can get away with.
The PS4 is doing well and having multiple models of the PS4 will cause the PS4 brand to be bigger and have more options for gamers of various (financial) backgrounds instead of tying everything to one box since the same games will be playable on both consoles.
I see this as more of a response to how last gen went down (i.e.: people finding it to be too long) while the cost of making games goes up, thus hindering the progress of console gaming. A "PS4K and Xbox One.5" would be a good balance in response to that.
They won't mess up the large user base of the current PS4 as long as the system is being supported with as much gaming content as it would if the PS4K didn't exist (and it seems like that will be the case). People will "quit console gaming" but I feel that the console gamers who will buy a PS4K will offset them leaving.
KratosEnergyDrink
Member
It's simple and its the same at the beginning of every new console generations. And PS4k is a new console generation, backwards compatible or not.
The first adopters of PS4k (and the new XBox) will be the "hardcore" gamers who spend much money on games. The ones who be left behind with PS4 are the ones who are not willing or able to spend much money on an graphical update and/or games. Developers will care for the PS4k owners and will make the best possible experience for them. PS4 versions will not be an "unplayable" mess, but most developers will (and can) not put so much effort on the old PS4 versions to optimize the graphics like they do now.
Even if the handheld market is not comparable to console market you can expect something similar to the "Hyrule Warriors Legends"-Situation with future PS4 games (looks and plays fine on n3DS, framerate stutters and less effects on old 3DS). Because n3DS was where the hardcore gamers did go. Expect exclusive PS4k games too, especially but not only in the VR area.
chrishackwood
Member
The only way for this to a huge success is for Sony to offer great trade in incentives for the 40m existing PS4 users. Otherwise I can't see this taking off at all!
GlamFM
Banned
The problem is just in your head though.
Your PS4 is getting the same games with or without the PS4K.
It´s not like they are going to "gimp" them some more just to piss you of.
Enjoy your PS4.
In a couple of years the PS5 will come out. I doubt the PS4K will have surpassed the PS4 in sales by then.
The PS4 will still get great games, just like it does just now.
I can't see devs making PS4K games only. 1) I don't think Sony woukd allow it and B) there's about 40 million PS4's in the wild, devs wouldn't want to lose 40 million potential customers.
PS4 games that run on the PS4k will no doubt run better.
The whole coding to the metal thing is bs anyway.
You can bet the first game on both models to have sub-par performance on the original model is going to be used as 'proof' by those against of this idea that the original PS4 performance suffered because the devs focused on the PS4K version and didn't optimize the regular version. They are going to say the devs are twisting their arm to buy the new model.
They'll forget about AC Unity, Fallout 4, Witcher 3, Just Cause 3, Firewatch, Broforce and the rest.
They'll forget about AC Unity, Fallout 4, Witcher 3, Just Cause 3, Firewatch, Broforce and the rest.
I see some contradiction between "devs have devkits" and "Sony still deciding if PS4K will have upgraded CPU". Shouldn't it be solved before handling devkits, especially if there are game already being made for new model? Sounds fishy.
And God of War 4 presented on brochure as GOW4? That's just silly IMHO.
And God of War 4 presented on brochure as GOW4? That's just silly IMHO.
dragonfart28
Banned
The advantage of the PC is that it's an open platform.
Forcing an upgrade model on consoles makes no sense because they are closed so you are just paying more with none of the benefits.
Forcing an upgrade model on consoles makes no sense because they are closed so you are just paying more with none of the benefits.
GlamFM
Banned
I just disagree. I can't see why they'd do this if there wasn't something forcing their hand. A normal generation names me sense for them.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
It's really not. If the PS4K takes off and gets a respectable amount of userbase third party developers are going to target the newer console and they wont have the time or money to put into optimising the PS4 downgraded version.
Just look at PS4 vs Xbox One, for the most part they run very similar architecture and devs can't even be bothered to have resolution parity and framerates again for the most part aren't as good on Xbox One. They target the PS4 and do the smallest amount of work they can get away with to get games running on Xbox One.
What do you think is going to happen to a PS4 vs PS4K if the performance really is twice as much.....
Fallout-with-swords
Banned
I think people are overreacting quite a bit. We already know essentially what PS4K games would look like, look at any PC port running on modern hardware, they have better effects, higher frame rate, and usually can at least run at 60fps. PS4 games will continue to be good looking games with lower quality assests and hovering around 30fps. Not sure how anyone could think any different? Do people honestly think devs will shit out PS4 ports at 15fps or something?
The only instance I could see games only working on PS4K is PSVR. But even then that's a situation when a game is now able to come to the PS4K but would have never been able to run on the base PS4 in the first place.
The only instance I could see games only working on PS4K is PSVR. But even then that's a situation when a game is now able to come to the PS4K but would have never been able to run on the base PS4 in the first place.
family_guy
Member
You can't make a new system overnight. They are in the planning stages for years. This could have been in the plans not long after PS4 was released.
Majukun
Member
they might not be exclusive,but if they target the new console the way hyrule legends targets (for what i heard) more the new 3ds than the old regular ones,it's still a lot of trouble for the customers
especially since there are a lot of games that don't perform well on console already
Yautja_Warrior
Member
If PS4K is even real (as in will be released to actually buy) I expect a UHD blu-ray drive and 4K media support for sure, but if it does offer improvements for gaming, like 4k games, then I expect it will do so with upscaling, as there is little chance it will do native 4k games (unless basic looking games)
GPU's that can run games at 4k on PC still cost more than a PS4 on it's own at the moment, and while new GPU's are coming later this year, current costs haven't come down enough where they would be used in a console, unless this thing is going to be really expensive. I bet it would use any extra power for better AA / framerates, things like that and then upscale to 4k.
GPU's that can run games at 4k on PC still cost more than a PS4 on it's own at the moment, and while new GPU's are coming later this year, current costs haven't come down enough where they would be used in a console, unless this thing is going to be really expensive. I bet it would use any extra power for better AA / framerates, things like that and then upscale to 4k.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
I can guarantee you that this has been in the planning stages since before the PS4 launched. You don't see your product doing well for 2 years on the market and then suddenly decide to drop a new SKU of this magnitude in such a short space of time.
This was likely always in the business plan, even before they knew how much of a success the PS4 would be.
*whispers*
Your sense of security about 'not missing out' was contrived. In the wider reality beyond one platform you're always missing out vs the best tech.
...
This is basically the crux of the tension around this. One of the biggest value points of consoles - if an intangible one - was this sense that once you buy in, you're on a level playing field within this ecosystem, and you can free yourself of the anxiety of 'missing out'. People talk about chasing upgrades on the PC side, but the underlying motivation is to chase away the fear of 'missing out' vs others. You can chase that endlessly on the PC side, and consoles offer(ed) an out from that - or at least, a more regularly controlled upgrade cycle.
That anxiety is a powerful one, and I agree it is a risk for console makers to tinker with the longer term sense of 'security' that came with console purchases.
But it's also a somewhat irrational psychology. Someone else having more doesn't mean you have less than before, but we perceive that inequality strongly. Despite the fact that it could even bring some benefits (e.g. a longer software cycle). And I know we're irrational beings in some situations...console makers might have challenge overcoming that.
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
Wow this sucks. So bought my ps4 a year ago... barely used it, waiting for actual games I want to play while I played on my PC and now a ps 4.5 with more powerful cpu is coming out. So my ps4 was a useless purchase? Think I m saying goodbye to consoles and sticking with pc, besides a rare handful of games everything makes it to pc nowadays F#$! this!
Sorc3r3r
Member
Yeah if they have already dev kits out it's clear that was planned well before MS went out with their upgrade plan and honestly i think that a mid gen update wouldn't change anything in the Ms marketshare.
So yeah Steam scares them?
They want to be on par with the other VR offerings?
Cause you may think good or bad of this new path, but we are in an uncharted territory, Sony is taking a major gamble with this new approach it could go very bad, so why they are gambling their super safe position?
I think devkits are usually upspec in relation with the launch product? Sony has some me wiggle room to decide. The 8 GB of GDDR5 was a pretty close decision back then.
Dunno, maybe those with PS4's, and those with PS4K's?
64bitbros
Member
Exactly this. Do people really think a dev/publisher will say:
"You know those 40 million potential customers? We don't care about them! Fuck them! We'll give them the bad port! We only care about those few millions with a PS4k because their $60 is so much more worth than the $60 of those PS4 peasants."
/s
Alx
Member
If you bought a console and barely used it, then yes it was a(n almost) useless purchase by definition, whatever exists outside of that specific configuration.
I'll never understand people "gambling" on future software, if a device doesn't have the software you want, just wait until it does before you buy it, it will be cheaper and risk-proof.
This is the kind of post I've been hanging out for.
The PS3/PS4 cross-generation bared interesting research for Sony. People bought the PS4 so they could get better versions of games they could get on PS3. Digital Foundry comparison videos of Assassins Creed: Black Flag might have sold the PS4 better than Uncharted 4 or Bloodborne did. I know MGSV on the PS3 wasn't even an option for me, and the first thing I played on PS4 was Ground Zeroes, and that playthrough was really just me enjoying the upgrade.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
I really don't care that I might be missing out on better graphics / experiences. I care that devs targeting the new console might not put as much effort into optimisation of the lesser console. Like PS4 vs Xbox games 1080p vs 720-900p and choppy framerates.